The Sussex Family General Chat Part 2

[changemhysoul]

I wish, William and Charles friends would stop going to the media on their behalf.

Either, stop sending sending friends out or tell your friends to stop talking on your behalf.

When the reports came out that Charles was too busy, it wasn't even stated that Harry ASKED to see his father. He just told him "I'm in London" So either Charles or his friends are centering Charles in Harry's life. He came for court and simply told the King he was in town, he didn't ask for an audience. The gal, of Charles to tell him he's too busy when he didn't even ask to meet him.

And then a friend for William running to the Daily Beast....like....at most he's getting a passing mention that his phone was hacked but Harry didn't ask to see him. And it's not Harry's fault that taking on the Daily Mail....would also mean the Royal Family because the Royal Family are too entangled with the tabloid media. From his father and step-mother hiring someone from the Daily Mail, members being pictured with the owner.

There isn't any opportunity for William to pass on seeing Harry....because Harry didn't ask to see him. And if people consider Harry and Meghan's friends going to the media, as speaking on their behalf. I do the same with the family, they have continued to allow their friends to go to the media when they could actually take "never complain, never explain to heart"

He'll be in the country for four days, focus on a legal battle with the media, there is no need for them to insert themselves into this. And if they didn't want the dealings with the tabloid media exposed, they shouldn't have gotten in bed.

But all of that being said, please, Charles and Williams friends, stop centering the two and pretending as if Harry gave more than a curtesy call saying he'd be in the country. He didn't ask to deal with them so the option of not saying anything (an option that's always thrown at Harry and Meghan) should be taken up by them.

It's been assumed that Harry was staying with friends, which is the safest bet for him. I hope he stays an extra day to pack up and move more things out of Frogmore.

[HistoryGirl2]

And it's not Harry's fault that taking on the Daily Mail....would also mean the Royal Family because the Royal Family are too entangled with the tabloid media. From his father and step-mother hiring someone from the Daily Mail, members being pictured with the owner.

That?s because the royal family isn?t just a family?it?s an institution. They have to deal with the media because there is a symbiotic relationship. That?s like saying, ?I wish Joe Biden would just stop dealing with the media.? He can?t. It doesn?t matter how mean they get. When you?re in a public position in a country with a free press, it is not a choice whether to deal with the media or not, it?s a necessity. That requires a give and take. The Daily Mail is one of the biggest papers in the country; you can?t just pretend they don?t exist.

Harry can fight them all day, every day if he wants to?as the private citizen he now is. He can call them names, sue them till the cows come home, ban their reporters from his events. Whatever he wants. However, as public figures, the RF have to have a more nuanced relationship with papers like the Mail. Charles and William do not exist as single persons; they represent the monarchy.

And I can only speak for myself, but if someone sent me a message saying, ?I?m in town,? there?s an implicit message that might make me have to explain my whereabouts. Also pretty easy to check whether the King is in London and what he and Prince William?s schedule is.

[changemhysoul]

Know what, if it's fine for them to hate or dislike or whatever the Sussex's, I just wish the family, firm and media would be more upfront, as upfront as Harry is. If you hate them, don't invite them. It's really that simple. If you do not trust them, don't invite them. But don't invite them, just so you can get the pleasure of subbing them. It's childish and petty and the media itself and the narrative that is coming from the palace grows more and more unhinged.

I really hope, they reject going even if I know it's a 50/50 because it's what everyone really wants and then I can enjoy the following weeks of "HOW DARE THEY SNUB THE KING."

Hopefully, Harry tells them that he's busy.


There is dealing with the media in formal press statements and being in bed with the tabloids and the royal rota.

A monarchy that is bed and hiring people from right-wing, racist papers...it says a lot about the monarchy. There is a way to interact with the press without being bff's but when the press has the dirt, it's hard to untangle, still, they made their beds. Reports don't have to be banned but they don't need lunches, or meet and greets or riding on plans with the royals. There is a way to interact with media without treating them like best friends and having on lines. But they want favorable reporting, they don't want any serious reporting, so they befriend and get in bed and to CURRY favorable reporting....which means access and deals.

Joe Biden, has a white house press secretary who speaks on his behalf most of the time. He does have the white house press thing but it's all media. He's not nearly as cozy with CNN has Camilla is with the Daily Mail.

It's not comparable at all. 

The royals aren't just giving access to events, there is no harm in that, they give access to themselves and to family members, so it works in there favor. That is vastly different to Joe Biden, there is no way to say that they're the same in that sense. And if they're willing to have a very close, personal and not PROFESSIONAL relationship with a paper like the Daily Mail, it doesn't look good. I wouldn't be opposed to a professional relationship but it's not that.

And for me, if someone who I didn't have a good relationship with is telling me their in town for a court case and haven't mentioned seeing me. Then I wouldn't be having people brief that I was too busy. At most, it'd be "I was informed that so and so would be in the country." Saying your busy is assuming that they want to have an audience with you.

[Amabel2]

I wish, William and Charles friends would stop going to the media on their behalf.

Either, stop sending sending friends out or tell your friends to stop talking on your behalf.

When the reports came out that Charles was too busy, it wasn't even stated that Harry ASKED to see his father. He just told him "I'm in London" So either Charles or his friends are centering Charles in Harry's life. He came for court and simply told the King he was in town, he didn't ask for an audience. The gal, of Charles to tell him he's too busy when he didn't even ask to meet him.

A

you really beleive evertying that's in the papers?

[HistoryGirl2]

Know what, if it's fine for them to hate or dislike or whatever the Sussex's, I just wish the family, firm and media would be more upfront, as upfront as Harry is. If you hate them, don't invite them. It's really that simple. If you do not trust them, don't invite them. But don't invite them, just so you can get the pleasure of subbing them. It's childish and petty and the media itself and the narrative that is coming from the palace grows more and more unhinged.

I really hope, they reject going even if I know it's a 50/50 because it's what everyone really wants and then I can enjoy the following weeks of "HOW DARE THEY SNUB THE KING."

Hopefully, Harry tells them that he's busy.


There is dealing with the media in formal press statements and being in bed with the tabloids and the royal rota.

A monarchy that is bed and hiring people from right-wing, racist papers...it says a lot about the monarchy. There is a way to interact with the press without being bff's but when the press has the dirt, it's hard to untangle, still, they made their beds. Reports don't have to be banned but they don't need lunches, or meet and greets or riding on plans with the royals. There is a way to interact with media without treating them like best friends and having on lines. But they want favorable reporting, they don't want any serious reporting, so they befriend and get in bed and to CURRY favorable reporting....which means access and deals.

Joe Biden, has a white house press secretary who speaks on his behalf most of the time. He does have the white house press thing but it's all media. He's not nearly as cozy with CNN has Camilla is with the Daily Mail.

It's not comparable at all. 

The royals aren't just giving access to events, there is no harm in that, they give access to themselves and to family members, so it works in there favor. That is vastly different to Joe Biden, there is no way to say that they're the same in that sense. And if they're willing to have a very close, personal and not PROFESSIONAL relationship with a paper like the Daily Mail, it doesn't look good. I wouldn't be opposed to a professional relationship but it's not that.

And for me, if someone who I didn't have a good relationship with is telling me their in town for a court case and haven't mentioned seeing me. Then I wouldn't be having people brief that I was too busy. At most, it'd be "I was informed that so and so would be in the country." Saying your busy is assuming that they want to have an audience with you.

Sorry, but press secretaries and their staff have relationships with journalists all the time. As do politicians. It?s the norm. There?s also all kinds of sources that journalists use to find information that don?t necessary come from traditional places. What you just described is literally the relationship between public figures and journalists. Yes, they give certain journalists access some times and not others. It?s just how media works. Now, you can like or dislike it, but to pretend like the Royal Family is the only institution that does this is just factually incorrect.

And as Amabel said before, just because some paper writes that a source close to such and such said something doesn?t mean it came from a friend of theirs. Otherwise everything that?s said in the papers about Meghan and Harry would also be true.

And I really cannot stress this enough: the Royal Family is not just a regular family. It?s an institution. There?s a reason its nickname is The Firm. They must always pay mind to how things will look to the public because that?s inherent to their survival as a monarchy. They can?t just do the petty thing so they can feel good about it. They have to do the polite thing. That means they will invite the Sussexes, no matter how much they use the RF for their own benefit and bad mouth it. The King cannot just behave like the petulant one. He has to rise above.

The people who look ridiculous in this is the Sussexes themselves not the RF. It should be noted that they?re the ones that haven?t declined the invitation. After all that talk of wanting apologies and wanting to be free from it all and safety being tantamount. I suppose not when the biggest royal event in almost a century (with all those cameras) is in play.

[wannable]

IF Harry is crying because 'friends' of Charles and William are stating that one is in Highgrove and the latter is at Anmer, well  :teehee:

The aging and in decline group (AKA the 6 aging and in decline celebs) would actually prefer a Hitler style reporting, IOW their own Communications sends the article and Hello! and People print it just as it is. The way USA The Cut perceived the couple, i.e. like any UK journalist doing their job writing what they perceive is what has these in decline group angry. Half of them got caught literally with their pants down in a public area or sold by a prostitute.

All the aging in decline group, in their ''initial'' statement are IN the case because of Gavin, it turns out Gavin today in his detailed statement denies any and all of these people. The rumor today is half of them are going to default.

[HistoryGirl2]

Also something to note is how convenient it is that paparazzi catch the Sussexes doing things like going to restaurants after the Frogmore news broke, handing out food to the homeless, but somehow can?t catch Harry flying to the U.K. until he?s at the court. It?s almost as if it?s not a coincidence that the photographers are there at these opportune moments?

Every public figure who wants their name in the news plays the same game. I actually found it quite amusing that Harry thought it was some sort of ?gotcha? moment when he revealed that *gasp* the RF are in bed with the media. Anyone who knows anything about media relations knows this to be true of every major star, celebrity, politician, institution, company, and government figure whose name is regularly in the papers. Indeed there?s an entire industry based around it. Spare me (pun intended) the fake outrage from those two. The only revelation I learned was how consumed they both were with getting top billing.

[TLLK]

That?s because the royal family isn?t just a family?it?s an institution. They have to deal with the media because there is a symbiotic relationship. That?s like saying, ?I wish Joe Biden would just stop dealing with the media.? He can?t. It doesn?t matter how mean they get. When you?re in a public position in a country with a free press, it is not a choice whether to deal with the media or not, it?s a necessity. That requires a give and take. The Daily Mail is one of the biggest papers in the country; you can?t just pretend they don?t exist.

Harry can fight them all day, every day if he wants to?as the private citizen he now is. He can call them names, sue them till the cows come home, ban their reporters from his events. Whatever he wants. However, as public figures, the RF have to have a more nuanced relationship with papers like the Mail. Charles and William do not exist as single persons; they represent the monarchy.

And I can only speak for myself, but if someone sent me a message saying, ?I?m in town,? there?s an implicit message that might make me have to explain my whereabouts. Also pretty easy to check whether the King is in London and what he and Prince William?s schedule is.

Thank you for pointing out the fact that the monarchy and other public institutions in the United Kingdom like other democracies, do have a symbiotic relationship with their respective nations' free press. Unlike nations that have a very centralized form of government that controls the media, the United Kingdom permits their citizens with the opportunity to read, listen and watch the information provided by their various media organizations.
Also thank you for pointing out that as public figures the senior royals do have a higher obligation to share information about their calendars to the nation that supports them. The monarch/consort, the adult heir/spouse and to some extent, those who are Counsellors of State are also among this group. Likewise, the Prime Minister, members of the Cabinet and other high ranking members of the British Government have an equal responsibility in maintaining a relationship with the nation's press.

Currently we know that the King and the Queen Consort are in Germany on their first outgoing State Visit. The Prince and Princess of Wales are reportedly in Norfolk with their children who are on their Easter break until mid-April. The Duke of Sussex is in the UK for the preliminary hearing of the suit against ANL.

[Amabel2]

does Harry not realise how his own staff must have worked to make him appear like a reasonably nice jolly young chap, when he was younger? 

[HistoryGirl2]

^ I think he felt he was thrown to the wolves for William?s sake. Ignoring the fact that it was his own ridiculous behavior that got him into those messes in the first place. Those messes that were dutifully cleaned up by those press secretaries he despises so much. Oh, the irony.

[Amabel2]

They did more than that.  THey made him seem charming and good natured, which he has now revealed that he really isnt.

[HistoryGirl2]

Agreed. I?d be sending them Christmas presents every year and thanking them profusely for having kept my image up for decades.

I think everyone has a choice. Harry doesn?t have to be part of the institution if he doesn?t want to. But his attempts to take over the narrative himself seem to have had an adverse effect. I really think he feels completely misunderstood by the ?naive public that are bamboozled by the evil press?. If only that evil press weren?t there, we?d all adore him and Meghan and see the light they try to bring to everything?It?s really quite amazing.

[TLLK]

does Harry not realise how his own staff must have worked to make him appear like a reasonably nice jolly young chap, when he was younger? 

I don't get the impression that he truly understands and appreciates what they did for them even if he's managed to maintain a good relationship with them over the years ie: Mark Dwyer, Edward Lane Fox, his RPOs etc...I'm currently reading Spare and I have to admit that while I recognize that Harry can be funny, generous and caring at times,   I'm simultaneously  saddened and surprised at his lack of personal responsibility.
I'm currently at a point where he's decided to return to seeing a therapist and she points out her concerns  that he's still "trapped in 1997." Honestly, he often appears to have halted his emotional maturity at that age. :no:

[HistoryGirl2]

That?s exactly how I would describe how I see him. It?s like everything is viewed from the perspective of his mother?s life and experience. It seems so unhealthy, but that?s all up to him to figure out.

I feel empathy for him, but I don?t believe being empathetic equates to avoiding reality to spare someone?s feelings. Learning to take responsibility for one?s actions and understanding that choices have consequences isn?t the most fun thing, but it does absolute wonders for your relationships.

It?s like he seems to understand only how things affect him. The current trial is an example. I?ll not go into the trial itself because that?s for another thread, but I saw how one component of his claim is how hurtful it was for him to think that a friend of his was selling stories to the media. True enough and completely agreed. But doesn?t he see that that?s exactly what he?s doing with his family? That cognitive dissonance is amazing to me, especially for a man his age.

[TLLK]

That?s exactly how I would describe how I see him. It?s like everything is viewed from the perspective of his mother?s life and experience. It seems so unhealthy, but that?s all up to him to figure out.

I feel empathy for him, but I don?t believe being empathetic equates to avoiding reality to spare someone?s feelings. Learning to take responsibility for one?s actions and understanding that choices have consequences isn?t the most fun thing, but it does absolute wonders for your relationships.

It?s like he seems to understand only how things affect him. The current trial is an example. I?ll not go into the trial itself because that?s for another thread, but I saw how one component of his claim is how hurtful it was for him to think that a friend of his was selling stories to the media. True enough and completely agreed. But doesn?t he see that that?s exactly what he?s doing with his family? That cognitive dissonance is amazing to me, especially for a man his age.

:goodpost:

[Princess Cassandra]

That?s exactly how I would describe how I see him. It?s like everything is viewed from the perspective of his mother?s life and experience. It seems so unhealthy, but that?s all up to him to figure out.

I feel empathy for him, but I don?t believe being empathetic equates to avoiding reality to spare someone?s feelings. Learning to take responsibility for one?s actions and understanding that choices have consequences isn?t the most fun thing, but it does absolute wonders for your relationships.

It?s like he seems to understand only how things affect him. The current trial is an example. I?ll not go into the trial itself because that?s for another thread, but I saw how one component of his claim is how hurtful it was for him to think that a friend of his was selling stories to the media. True enough and completely agreed. But doesn?t he see that that?s exactly what he?s doing with his family? That cognitive dissonance is amazing to me, especially for a man his age.

Beautifully written, and oh so true. I don't know if he'll figure this out, because he appears to be unable to understand what he is doing wrong or not doing right. I worry how this will be going forward.

[Nightowl]

I don't get the impression that he truly understands and appreciates what they did for them even if he's managed to maintain a good relationship with them over the years ie: Mark Dwyer, Edward Lane Fox, his RPOs etc...I'm currently reading Spare and I have to admit that while I recognize that Harry can be funny, generous and caring at times,   I'm simultaneously  saddened and surprised at his lack of personal responsibility.
I'm currently at a point where he's decided to return to seeing a therapist and she points out her concerns  that he's still "trapped in 1997." Honestly, he often appears to have halted his emotional maturity at that age. :no:

And to realize that all these years of others cleaning up after Harry and his antics is to realize it was all for show to make him look good while he really wasn't good at all, he played the people when at events for fools into thinking he was a nice guy who made fun of a disable woman for the fun of it to show off in front of his friends. Now the real *Harry* is showing himself and he is not a  nice guy unless it goes his way......really sad to see the *real Harry* for I liked the fake Harry very much, now, can't stand him as he has shown his *true* character and that is never to be trusted again.  Think he deserves an *Oscar* for his performance over the years before Meghan?

[Curryong]

And to realize that all these years of others cleaning up after Harry and his antics is to realize it was all for show to make him look good while he really wasn't good at all, he played the people when at events for fools into thinking he was a nice guy who made fun of a disable woman for the fun of it to show off in front of his friends. Now the real *Harry* is showing himself and he is not a  nice guy unless it goes his way......really sad to see the *real Harry* for I liked the fake Harry very much, now, can't stand him as he has shown his *true* character and that is never to be trusted again.  Think he deserves an *Oscar* for his performance over the years before Meghan?

I remember the years before Meghan, years when he wrote to vets and ex service personnel encouraging them in their endeavours on Twitter. They publicised these, not ELF or Jamie or any Aides. There were men in wheelchairs that he visited and who would greet him on Twitter, praising him on several occasions for him going to their flats and houses, helping them out with their physio and their worries. That wasn?t BP talking, or KP, it was Harry. He had close friendships with both Britons, Americans and others that he had met through his Walking with the Wounded endeavours and other charities. And it wasn?t PR.

As for Pat, this so-called disabled junior matron at Ludgrove, I find it extraordinary that the media who would have loved an interview one would have thought, have never tracked her down. Her records at the school must still be around. It is odd to say the least, that she, or friends and relatives of hers if she has passed, have never ever said anything in public about Pat, that no teachers or fellow medical staff, or men who were at Ludgrove as boys, have never expressed any opinion about this mysterious individual who supposedly was so ragged by the pupils. No memories from anyone. Very odd indeed!

So strange that one would think that Pat isn?t or never was a real person at all.

[Nightowl]

I would like to think that the school has records somewhere stashed in storage of long ago members and students of the school. And some people like their privacy when they know how the world's crazy operate and maybe to this day do not want to be involved with the people as they can read and see for themselves just how nasty and mean some are......I don't think throwing assumptions out there that she is a fake or a non- person by any means after all the school hired her and have records of her I bet somewhere.     I find it is always best to take a step back and wait and learn and listen to what others have to say.   As my sister used to tell me all the time, *there is no cure for stupid* and when a person tells lies and keep on with the same, well, that is just plain stupid as the only person looking bad is the person lying.

[Curryong]

I would like to think that the school has records somewhere stashed in storage of long ago members and students of the school. And some people like their privacy when they know how the world's crazy operate and maybe to this day do not want to be involved with the people as they can read and see for themselves just how nasty and mean some are......I don't think throwing assumptions out there that she is a fake or a non- person by any means after all the school hired her and have records of her I bet somewhere.     I find it is always best to take a step back and wait and learn and listen to what others have to say.   As my sister used to tell me all the time, *there is no cure for stupid* and when a person tells lies and keep on with the same, well, that is just plain stupid as the only person looking bad is the person lying.

?Long ago?? We aren?t talking here of 100 years ago or even 50. Harry was enrolled at Ludgrove in 1992. There were 50 staff at the school and an enrolment of approx 200 boys aged between 8 and 13. And yet nobody at that school, not a staff member, fellow medics or masters, or anybody who was at Harry?s year level or William?s has come out to defend Pat or even share memories of her? And the media, who made much of Harry?s private parts and first girlfriends, were curiously muted on the subject of Pat after they read ?Spare?. I wouldn?t be at all surprised if in fact they did some snooping and found nobody resident at Ludgrove who could remember a Pat at all.

I don?t think that people?s memories are that short.

Harry is in his late thirties. There would be many men now in their early thirties who would have been juniors at Ludgrove when Harry was there in the 1990s as well as older boys, pre teens. And yet nobody has memories of this woman. I find that very strange. Men in their eighties often remember their childhood and youth with great clarity, but not men in their thirties who attended Ludgrove only thirty years ago. Apparently!

[Amabel2]

As for Pat, this so-called disabled junior matron at Ludgrove, I find it extraordinary that the media who would have loved an interview one would have thought, have never tracked her down. Her records at the school must still be around. It is odd to say the least, that she, or friends and relatives of hers if she has passed, have never ever said anything in public about Pat, that no teachers or fellow medical staff, or men who were at Ludgrove as boys, have never expressed any opinion about this mysterious individual who supposedly was so ragged by the pupils. No memories from anyone. Very odd indeed!

So strange that one would think that Pat isn?t or never was a real person at all.

So why did Harry make up a person, largley to sneer at her looks and to tell everyone how funny it felt when he mocked her disability?  Surely that's a sign of some kind of mental problem.

[Amabel2]

And to realize that all these years of others cleaning up after Harry and his antics is to realize it was all for show to make him look good while he really wasn't good at all, he played the people when at events for fools into thinking he was a nice guy who made fun of a disable woman for the fun of it to show off in front of his friends. Now the real *Harry* is showing himself and he is not a  nice guy unless it goes his way......really sad to see the *real Harry* for I liked the fake Harry very much, now, can't stand him as he has shown his *true* character and that is never to be trusted again.  Think he deserves an *Oscar* for his performance over the years before Meghan?

I was increasingly sceptical of Nice Harry,  I had begun to think some years ago that there was something wrong.. but he's proved me even more right than I originally thought. I didnt think he was outright nasty as he has proved himself to be, a lot of the time.

[Amabel2]

I meant to add ot the post on Pat that I could understand if H had made up a fictional beautiful young lady whom he had his first affair with.. that's not odd if foolish to want the world to think that your first love affair was with someone beautiful and charming, and not just some ordinary gal in a rumpled bed or a hayloft, but I cant understand why you would make up a middle aged woman, who was plain and grumpy and in pain, and then say that you still remembered what fun it was to laugh at her and mock her.  Perhaps Pat hasn't been talked bout by other pupils because they also mocked her and are ashamed of it, or she's now an older lady who is in even worse health and they and hte press dont want to look bad by going on about her, or mabye the woman is dead and they dont want to bring her up.

[HistoryGirl2]

Beautifully written, and oh so true. I don't know if he'll figure this out, because he appears to be unable to understand what he is doing wrong or not doing right. I worry how this will be going forward.

I?m not sure if he will either. The truth is some people remain self-centered throughout their entire life. There?s also the sticking point that he?s gotta make money for the majority of his life now. I?m not sure how else he can make it without cashing in on his connections. To my knowledge, he?s not a savvy businessman and his skills learned in the army likely wouldn?t yield millions. His real skill is being Prince Harry and that?s gotten him the most money.

I don?t envy him, to tell you the truth. While he may express a desire to break away from the RF and be his own person, that?s going to be difficult to truly accomplish whilst maintaining his lifestyle. ?Prince? and ?Duke of Sussex? is the cache, both socially and monetarily.

[Curryong]

So why did Harry make up a person, largley to sneer at her looks and to tell everyone how funny it felt when he mocked her disability?  Surely that's a sign of some kind of mental problem.

I don?t know whether Pat is a real person or not. However, if she exists not one of the approximately 250 people, staff and boys at Ludgrove in Harry?s time have chosen to come out and say anything at all, favourable or unfavourable about this woman, not even her fellow matrons or the local doctor who must have been at the school occasionally.

Think about it. Would any reputable publishing house allow a woman to be named and her physical characteristics be described in such a way if there really was a Pat and she was in the physical condition described?That would set them up to be sued by her. Unless she is dead, in which case her loved ones could have come out and protested at the portrait.

If I had to guess, (and I and others have been thinking about this since Spare was published) I would say that Pat is an amalgam of the matrons and other staff who were there at the school at the time. Harry has exaggerated one or two of these people?s physical characteristics and uncaring qualities in order to paint a picture of his and his contemporaries? boarding school life as children at the time.

And I would also guess that all the Ludgrovians who attended the school at that time recognise that picture and the various tricks that they played on members of staff AT THE TIME. This is deliberately a child?s recollection.