Re: Royal Privacy and Security Throughout the Years

[Princess Cassandra]

He says he would pay for official security from Scotland Yard, but since that's been refused, could he not pay for his own private security staff while he is in the UK?  Or perhaps I just don't understand the situation. 

[TLLK]

He says he would pay for official security from Scotland Yard, but since that's been refused, could he not pay for his own private security staff while he is in the UK?  Or perhaps I just don't understand the situation.

From what I understand,  he wants his  private security  team to have access to UK official intelligence which is not permitted. Plus, they cannot use firearms in the UK.
If he can't have scenario #1, then he wants to pay for current and active duty Metropolitan Police officers for himself and his family.  Also not permitted as Metropolitan Police are not for hire. He could consider hiring retired Metropolitan Police officers but I don't believe that they can carry firearms  either.

[PrincessOfPeace]

Intruder who tried to climb wall into Buckingham Palace while carrying knife and cocaine spared jail | Daily Mail Online

[TLLK]

From the article above and I have to agree that he's fortunate that he was not shot and killed for being armed. I hope that he's receiving treatment for his mental health.

mentally ill man who scaled a Buckingham Palace fence while carrying a knife and cocaine has been spared jail by a judge - who told him he was lucky not to have been killed by police.

Cameron Kalani, 44, entered the Royal Mews - which houses the royal family's horses - while suffering a 'psychotic episode' in the early hours of May 10 last year.

The 'talented' wildlife photographer, from Haywards Heath, West Sussex, was caught with a 20cm kitchen knife and cocaine in his bag when he was arrested after climbing back into Buckingham Palace Road. 

The incident was among a string of security scares on royal property last year - including just days earlier, when a couple climbed the fence at Windsor Castle, and months later on Christmas Day, when a man 'carrying a crossbow' entered palace grounds. 

Wearing a white fleece and blue jeans, Kalani, who has a 'schizoaffective disorder', stood with hunched shoulders as he was handed a 24-week prison sentence, suspended for 12 months, at Westminster Magistrates' Court on Tuesday.

[TLLK]

The Duke of Sussex's legal representatives began his claim for a judicial review of the Home Office's decision to decline permiting Prince Harry to pay for Metropolitan Police Protection for himself and his family while they're in the UK.

archive.ph

Prince Harry wants to return to the UK to see his family but does not feel safe, his lawyers have said as he takes the Home Office to Court.
The Duke of Sussex on Friday began his claim for a judicial review of Priti Patel?s decision not to allow him to pay for police protection for himself and his family while in the UK.
His family lost their taxpayer-funded police protection in the aftermath of quitting as senior working royals in early 2020.
As the case began, his QC Shaheed Fatima said: ?This claim is about the fact that the Duke does not feel safe when he is in the UK given the security arrangements applied to him in June 2021 and will continue to be applied if he decides to come back.
?It goes without saying that he does want to come back to see family and friends and to continue to support the charities that are so close to his heart.
?This is and always will be his home.?
However, Ms Fatima was rebuked by the judge who told her: ?Can you just focus on the issues in dispute today.?

The duke is arguing that his private protection team in the US does not have adequate jurisdiction abroad or access to UK intelligence information which is needed to keep his family safe.
His bid for a review of the Home Office decision was filed in September.
The preliminary hearing at the High Court in London on Friday is expected to cover which parts of the court documents can be made public or must be kept private.
It is focussing on whether the details of the case regarding security arrangements for public figures and members of the Royal family can be kept hidden from the public.
The duke has previously said he "inherited" a risk in being born into the Royal family.
Prince Harry briefly returned from LA last year for the July 1 unveiling of the Diana, Princess of Wales memorial statue.
He also met seriously ill children and young people at a WellChild garden party and afternoon tea in Kew Gardens during the visit. It is understood the duke's car was chased by photographers as he left.
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex?s security provision was one of the key issues when the couple announced they wanted to step down in January 2020.
They were later forced to disclose that they had put in place "privately funded security arrangements" for their move to the US, after the former president Donald Trump said his country would not pay for their protection.

[TLLK]

From The Sun's reporter Matt Wilkinson at the hearing sharing the Home Office's response during the hearing.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1494649415533015043

Strong words from Home Office in response to Harry's claims he would fund private security. In documents handed to the court, the Home Office states Harry did not offer private funding when he returned in June 2021 or "any of the pre-action correspondence which followed".

The Home Office docs also say government "attributed to the Claimant a form of exceptional status whereby he is considered for personal protection security by police with precise arrangements being dependent on the reason for his presence in Great Britain" on "case-by-case" basis.

Wow it gets worse, the Home Office skeleton argument adds: "The Claimant has failed to afford the necessary measure of respect to the Defendant and RAVEC as the expert, and democratically accountable, decison-maker on matters of protective securoty and associated risk assessment."

Harry HAS now offered to pay for Met security in his confidential 250-page witness statement and exhibits document and also in his 33-page confidential Statement of Facts and Grounds filed last September, the Home Office say. Harry's skeleton argument is also confidential

[Amabel2]

but he can't expect to pay for the Met officers nor for them to share info wiht his own security men

[Curryong]

As Harry has offered to pay officers from the Met, trust the Sun rag to twist it and put the worst possible interpretation on everything.

[Amabel2]

but officers from the Met are not there to be hired by peopl

[PrincessOfPeace]

"The Claimant has failed to afford the necessary measure of respect to the Defendant and RAVEC as the expert, and democratically accountable, decison-maker on matters of protective security and associated risk assessment."

Pretty strong words.

[TLLK]

but officers from the Met are not there to be hired by peopl

That is what I understand  @Amabel2.  To be honest, I don't believe that Prince Harry or any other public figure or celebrity would be permitted to "hire" the Secret Service or any other nation's highest ranking security officers even if they offered to pay for the cost from their  own pocket. If that were to happen I believe it would set a terrible precedent.  The Met Police will be busy enough during the Jubilee trying to keep the most vulnerable protected and that would be your average British citizen as well as anyone else in the British Government, Foreign Dignitaries as well as the members of the British Royal Family who have round the clock protection.

[Curryong]

but officers from the Met are not there to be hired by peopl

That is untrue. Right back to the later 19th century and certainly the 1920s and ?30s Met police officers were hired to provide security at private events. It was known that the Rothschilds, and Sassoon family and some aristocrats  for example would hire off duty police officers (from the Met and from County forces if the event was held in the country)  to make sure that nobody made off with very expensive jewellery left under the care of servants, valuable silverware given as wedding gifts etc etc at balls, Society weddings etc. This was especially true if royals were staying.

It was a private arrangement and although not particularly encouraged by Scotland Yard top brass there were no official objections to it, and that has gone on to today, where celebrities can also hire Scotland Yard detectives privately for functions, for their weddings and so on.

And incidentally, off duty or not, a police officer is always a police officer while he is employed as a serving member of the force. So if an officer saw an illegal act at any function, such as guests or family snorting coke, for example, then that person would be liable for arrest.

Private police - Wikipedia

From the above

In jurisdictions that allow it, off-duty officers may be employed to provide security to individuals, or companies, or organizations. If their jurisdiction grants them police powers on and off-duty, they essentially become private police while employed by anyone other than the government.

The use of public police officers under private pay has become more and more contentious, as it is felt to be unfair competition against private security firms.

[Curryong]

These police officers from the Gloucester force were hired for Kate Moss?s wedding and included a police Inspector and sergeant. Therefore it?s clear that police are used by celebrities.

Kate Moss wedding policed by 35 officers - Mirror Online

Kate Moss wedding policed by 35 officers
THE police deployed 35 officers to blockade a village for Kate Moss?s wedding ? comprising one inspector, five sergeants and 29 PCs.

[Amabel2]

That is ordinary police officers doing normal crowd control and the celebrity or football club or whatever defrays some of the cost.  Its very different for someone to want to hire specially trained officers like RPOs for their personal use esp at a time like the Jubillee when they will be busy protecting hte Royal family as a whole.  If Harry manages to get around LA with his private bodyguards, why is h he not content to use the RPOs that are available to him in the UK?

[PrincessOfPeace]

Harry lives in a country with 8 times the per capita murder rate than the UK and seems to be just fine.

[Amabel2]

Harry lives in a country with 8 times the per capita murder rate than the UK and seems to be just fine.

So it seems.  Albeit he is not seen out that much in LA, is he? Perhaps he has a phalanx of discreet armed security guards with him.  qua
but the rule is that police officers can only work for outside people if it is OKed by their superiors, and where it does not affect their regular job.  I doubt if highly trained, professionalised specialist officer, who are working for the RP squad and are allowed to carry guns (I think) are likely to be allowed to work privately, esp during a time like the Jubilee when they will be fully stretched with their normal work.  And it would set a dangerous precedent if VIPs coming to London felt that they too could ask for RPOs for hire and for those RPOs to share their specialist knowledge, as this seems to be one of Harry's issues.... since the RPOs have a line to the Intellgence forces

[TLLK]

These police officers from the Gloucester force were hired for Kate Moss?s wedding and included a police Inspector and sergeant. Therefore it?s clear that police are used by celebrities.

Kate Moss wedding policed by 35 officers - Mirror Online

Kate Moss wedding policed by 35 officers
THE police deployed 35 officers to blockade a village for Kate Moss?s wedding ? comprising one inspector, five sergeants and 29 PCs.

Thank you for sharing this @Curryong. I'm not surprised that the local police agency in Gloucester was requested to provide some crowd control knowing that this event could bring some crowds to a small village.  However I do not believe that they're are considered the equivalent rank and training level as those in the specialized Metropolitan Police Unit that are there to provide protection for members of the British Royal Family, foreign dignitaries ie: Ambassadors, or the  Prime Minister and other members of the British Government who require armed protection officers. As I understand it, the typical police officer in the UK does not carry a service firearm while on patrol . From viewing the photos in the article from Kate Moss' wedding, the officers don't appear to be armed with firearms.

From what I have gathered, Prince Harry is not looking to "hire" one of the rank and file officers who work for the Met Police. IMO he clearly wants the  a Royal Protection Officer.

[TLLK]

That is ordinary police officers doing normal crowd control and the celebrity or football club or whatever defrays some of the cost.  Its very different for someone to want to hire specially trained officers like RPOs for their personal use esp at a time like the Jubillee when they will be busy protecting hte Royal family as a whole.  If Harry manages to get around LA with his private bodyguards, why is h he not content to use the RPOs that are available to him in the UK?

@Amabel2 - I would expect that with the upcoming Jubilee events in June as well as a holiday weekend scheduled, that the rank and file officers of the Met Police will all be expected to be on duty. I doubt that officers will be permitted time off during that time period as there will be large crowds at events. Also with COVID restrictions being lifted around the globe there's  likely to be  a large number of late springtime foreign tourists who are back in the UK for the first time in two years.

[Amabel2]

well yes I'd say that all police leave will be cancelled and possibly police from forces outside of London will be drafted in to help as the city will (if Covid is in abeyance) be full of people....  but Harry wont be among the throngs.. and he will be watched by specialised coppers of the RP squad. However waht he can't do is say that he wants  a half dozen of hte RP men allocated to him personally for all his stay and that he will pay them directly or even via the Met itself.

[Amabel2]

Thank you for sharing this @Curryong. I'm not surprised that the local police agency in Gloucester was requested to provide some crowd control knowing that this event could bring some crowds to a small village.  However I do not believe that they're are considered the equivalent rank and training level as those in the specialized Metropolitan Police Unit that are there to provide protection for members of the British Royal Family, foreign dignitaries ie: Ambassadors, or the  Prime Minister and other members of the British Government who require armed protection officers. As I understand it, the typical police officer in the UK does not carry a service firearm while on patrol . From viewing the photos in the article from Kate Moss' wedding, the officers don't appear to be armed with firearms.

From what I have gathered, Prince Harry is not looking to "hire" one of the rank and file officers who work for the Met Police. IMO he clearly wants the  a Royal Protection Officer.

ordinary police sometimes do these things because if a celeb is getting married or whatever, there will be crowds around and it may cause issues, so some celebs offer to pay towards police costs if they have these men and women in place to make theier weddings run smoothly and to ensure public safety at the event.  Same with football matches.  Football teams pay for these extra men and women for crowd control...
but they are just ordinary police doing ordinary crowd control work.
Harrys argument seems to be that he wants RPOs for his personal use, and that he's willing to pay for them.. because they have info from British intelligence and so will be able to know about any threats or special dangers for him and his family. If he's keeping some of his own security team with him, he may expect the RPOS to share some of that information but they can't do that.

[PrincessOfPeace]

What I don't understand is Harry says the UK is too dangerous for his family, how does he know this?

He has no access to intelligence information, but says he can't return to the UK without specialist protection officers.

[Amabel2]

perhaps as his ex girlfriend said (Cressida?) he is prone ot exaggerated fears about these things

[TLLK]

What I don't understand is Harry says the UK is too dangerous for his family, how does he know this?

He has no access to intelligence information, but says he can't return to the UK without specialist protection officers.

Yes I don't believe that they do have access to any intelligence information about any threats that the Met Police and the Home Office have determined to be real. As I understand it the joint committee between the MP and HO has determined that their threat level is low enough that currently they do not require full time security on a private visit to the UK. And I understand that was with the video from when Prince Harry left the Well Child engagement in July 2021. I can only guess that the Sussexes are viewing posts on social media and have come to the joint decision that they believe the UK is too dangerous for them.

[wannable]

The rumor is someone in the family gave him an evidence?

I don't think nobody wants nothing bad to happen to him and his family.  Imagine if something happened? The government and the BRF would feel really bad.

[Amabel2]

Yes I don't believe that they do have access to any intelligence information about any threats that the Met Police and the Home Office have determined to be real. As I understand it the joint committee between the MP and HO has determined that their threat level is low enough that currently they do not require full time security on a private visit to the UK. And I understand that was with the video from when Prince Harry left the Well Child engagement in July 2021. I can only guess that the Sussexes are viewing posts on social media and have come to the joint decision that they believe the UK is too dangerous for them.

At Jubille events, they will have the protection of RPOs iwht the rest of the RF.  Perhaps he feels that he should have it 24/7..  so if he and Meghan go to a private event  they would have thier RPOS