The Plantagenets 1154-1495 Henry II to Richard III

[Curryong]

Anne Neville was Queen of England for nearly three years.   
Queen Anne Neville (1456-1485) - YouTube

Yes, and a very unhappy Queen Consort for most of that time. The mother of one frail boy, who died, tubercular herself apparently, terrified that she was going to be poisoned in the last months of her life, so Richard could marry again (the rumour was that his niece Elizabeth was his intended bride until he squashed it) along with a paranoid atmosphere at court. Terrific life this lady had!

[Curryong]

New Study strengthens claims that Richard III Had the Princes in the Tower Murdered.

New study strengthens claims Richard III murdered 'the Princes in the Tower'

[Amabel2]

so what is this about the DNA?  Was Richard III illegitimate?

[Curryong]

so what is this about the DNA?  Was Richard III illegitimate?

This is an article about supposed illegitimacy in the line leading to Richard III.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30281333

The story that Richard may not have been his father?s son has been around for some time hasn?t it? Different physical looks to his older siblings, father Richard Duke of York supposedly away from mother Cecile nine months before his birth. I don?t believe the story myself.

[Izabella]

Ah! The parking lot king aka Lord Farquaad. Sure the princes weren?t shipped off to another far away land. Assumed another identity and became regular folk!  :lol: :orchid:  Sadly no.
OT: The movie King Richard and the Williams sisters. Give that man an Oscar all ready!  :lol: :windsor1: :orchid:

[TLLK]

This is an article about supposed illegitimacy in the line leading to Richard III.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30281333

The story that Richard may not have been his father?s son has been around for some time hasn?t it? Different physical looks to his older siblings, father Richard Duke of York supposedly away from mother Cecile nine months before his birth. I don?t believe the story myself.

As I recall Duchess Cecile made claims that her older son Edward IV was not legitimate either.

[Curryong]

Quite an interesting discussion below about Cecile and the assertions of the illegitimacy of Edward IV. Quite frankly I do not believe that Cecile, a woman enormously proud of her birth, status and position, would have lowered herself to be unfaithful, especially with regard to a son and heir.

Could Edward IV have been illegitimate? ? Royal History Geeks

[TLLK]

@Curryong-Thank you for the article.

After reading it I do believe that Edward IV was the legitimate son of Richard and Cecile but that it's conceivable that he was either premature or late and his parents opted for a quicker/simpler baptism having previously lost another son. As to physical differences between father and son, I'd put that down to the wonders of genetics.  :) Two successive Plantagenet kings who were brothers simply inherited different DNA from their parents.

[LouisFerdinand]

A life-sized stained glass window of King Richard III   
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-25780972

[LouisFerdinand]

Was it necessary that Parliament had to declare Edward V illegitimate on June 26, 1483 so that Richard, Duke of Gloucester could be the rightful king?

[LouisFerdinand]

Within months of taking the throne, King Richard III established the Court of Requests. In the Court of Requests, if a person had a grievance but could not afford legal representation he could get a fair hearing.   

:xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15: :xmas15:

[TLLK]

Another theory regarding one of the great mysteries in English history that is being pursued by Phillipa Langley of  the Richard III Society. The Richard III Society and the University of Leicester successfully discovered the remains of the Princes' uncle King Richard III in 2013. King Richard III was later reburied in Leicester Cathedral but questions have always remained about what happened to his nephews who were last seen alive at the Tower of London.

Information on the Missing Princes' Project.

Philippa Langley

Here's St. Matthew's Church which is located on an estate that had been owned by Edward's older half-brother.
A Portrait of Edward V and Perhaps Even a Resting Place?- St Matthew?s Church Coldridge ? A MEDIEVAL POTPOURRI

Not surprisingly because of the window, which is in the Evans chapel, and a tomb with an effigy of John Evans upon it, the intriguing theory has grown that this church could be the final resting place of the disappeared Edward V ? John Evans being Edward incognito. Clues abound including the Sunne  in Splendour, a Yorkist emblem, in a window and wooden bosses.    John who died 1511,  was said to have came from Wales ? thus the name Evans which is Welsh ?  EVans ? Edward V ?  one time Prince of Wales ? get it? ? please keep up at the back dear reader.   It should also be remembered that Ludlow, where Edward spent most of his life up until 1483 was in the Welsh Marches and not Shropshire as it is today.   The effigy is  wearing chainmail under his robe and the story goes that John turned up in Coldridge in 1485 after the battle of Bosworth.  IF he had been Edward he would have been around 15 at that time.   There is however reason to believe  that he had arrived earlier in 1484.   His mother Elizabeth Wydeville had emerged from sanctuary at Westminster accompanied by her daughters on the 1st March of that year.  She had reached an agreement with Richard III and wrote to her son Thomas Grey, Marquess of Dorset, who had owned Coldridge prior to it being confiscated by Richard, but was now in France with Henry Tudor, to return home as Richard would pardon him.   Two days later on the 3 March  a trusted follower of the king, Robert Markenfield was sent from Yorkshire to Coldridge. Was this to keep an eye on the young lad who had been king for such a short time, Edward V, and who had been secreted away at the former property of his half brother, Dorset, a property which was about to returned to him if it had not already been done so?

In a small church in Devon, there lie some interesting artifacts that might suggest that Edward V was secretly permitted to live out his life.

Note-Yes it's the DM but The Times and The Daily Telegraph are running similar articles today. Unfortunately they're subscriber only, so I'm posting the DM one. It has photos of the small church or chantry  from Devon where the it is theorized that Edward V was sent to live out his life in secret. There's nothing in the article that suggests where younger brother Richard the Duke of York was placed. 

Richard III may have been INNOCENT of 'Princes in the Tower' murders, study claims | Daily Mail Online

Langley started the Missing Princes Project four years ago, and so far has more than 100 lines of inquiry into the fate of the older of the pair of brothers.

Described as a 'Da Vinci Code-style' investigation, the team have been following a trail of medieval documents and clues hidden in an ancient parish church.

'The idea of a missing prince lying low in Devon might appear fanciful at first,' said Dike, 'but the discoveries inside this church in the middle of nowhere are extraordinary'.

Their unexpected discovery suggests that Edward was sent to live out the rest of his life on the land of his half-brother in Devon on the condition he kept quiet.

This was part of a deal between his mother and Richard III, that was upheld by his successor, Henry Tudor, according to Dike. 

'Once you take all the clues together, it does appear that the story of the princes in the Tower may need to be rewritten,' he added.

No conclusive evidence has ever been found that Edward V and Richard of Shrewsbury were murdered and some revisionist historians believe it may have been invented as part of a plot to smear Richard III. 

The last time the boys were actually seen was in the summer of 1483, when they were spotted playing by the Tower of London.

The bones found under a staircase in the tower now lie in an urn in Westminster Abbey, and the Queen is said to have refused to allow scientists to analyse them.

However, the team say the paper trail leading to the arrival of Edward V in Devon is strong, with considerable evidence he was John Evans.

[LouisFerdinand]

The hair is that of Mary Tudor, a daughter of King Henry VII of England.

[LouisFerdinand]

King Richard I set sail from Portsmouth for Barfleur in Normandy on May 12, 1194. Before he left, he granted Portsmouth a charter and began the process of building a town and palace that would transform Portsmouth into an important military port.

[LouisFerdinand]

In January 1227 King Henry III who was nineteen declared himself fully of age at a council in Oxford.

[LouisFerdinand]

On April 25, 1199 John was invested as Duke of Normandy with a crown of gold roses placed on his head.

[LouisFerdinand]

Henry III was the first Plantagenet to be born in England.     
The barons objected to the influence of Henry's foreign relatives. King Henry's sister Eleanor had taken a vow of chastity. In 1238 a marriage was arranged between Eleanor and Simon de Montfort of France.

[LouisFerdinand]

John of Powderham, known as John Deydras, was the son of a tanner.   
He somehow gained access to the royal palace of Beaumont in Oxford. He claimed that he was the true heir of the realm as the son of King Edward I. John was taken before King Edward II during the Northampton Parliament of 1318.

[LouisFerdinand]

Queen Berengaria, who was the wife of King Richard I of England, is sometimes described as a Basque. However, there is no evidence that she spoke the Basque language. Her mother tongue was Castilian or Romance (Aragonese-Navarrese).

[LouisFerdinand]

Before King Henry III married Eleanor of Provence, he had previously been engaged to Joan, the heiress to the county of Ponthieu in France. The French court had objected to the prospect of an English sovereign marrying into a county on the northern French coast. The marriage alliance fell apart.

[LouisFerdinand]

Alphonso (1273-1284) was the son of King Edward I of England and Eleanor of Castile. He was the heir apparent. He had the title of Earl of Chester. He predeceased his father. However, if he had succeeded his father, he would have been King Alphonso I of England.

[LouisFerdinand]

King Henry III had the windows of Windsor Castle fitted with glass. At this time period to have windows with glass was considered a luxury.

[LouisFerdinand]

In 1193 fifty miles from Vienna, Austria, King Richard I was arrested and delivered as a prisoner to Leopold, Duke of Austria. In February 1193 Leopold sold him to Emperor Henry VI, for a fee of half the ransom the emperor could raise for the captive king.

[LouisFerdinand]

Queen Philippa interceded before her husband to ask that the lives of the seven Burghers of Calais be spared.       
The wife of King Edward III, queen Philippa of Hainault, intercedes before her husband to ask that the lives of the seven Burghers of Calais be spared

[Amabel2]

As I recall Duchess Cecile made claims that her older son Edward IV was not legitimate either.

So Why would Cecily say that Edward IV was not legitimate? I dont think that he was.  Was she pressured by Richard?  DID she perhaps feel that a boy King like Edward V was not a good idea and that the boy would be safer if he did not become King and Richard, a strong adult man, ruled?