The Stuarts (Scotland 1371)-(England/Great Britain 1603-1714)

Started by cinrit, December 28, 2011, 01:07:00 PM

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Limabeany

#50
August 17, 2013, 11:31:12 PM Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 11:46:44 PM by LIMABEANY
I forgot about summer!!!!!!!

Quote...wearing Tudor clothes in peak summer would have been a very sweaty affair and to try and keep the clothes smelling fresh, without the modern conveniences of deodorant...would have been very difficult.

Quote...many of the wealthy were huge fans of linens – these were undergarments that could be easily washed and changed and essentially absorbed the sweat and body odors leaving their outer garments 'clean' as most were not able to be washed...ever.

QuoteOne quick remedy for this was actually to bathe with vinegar which helped to neutralize body odors

QuoteFor peasants, a toilet was a bucket in the corner of the room that was tossed into the river, or a bucket behind the house, or a tree in the forest. No privies for these folks. Unfortunately water for cooking and bathing came from the same river...shudder...Perhaps this is why they thought bathing could make you ill?
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

cinrit

#51
August 17, 2013, 11:40:30 PM
And then they walked around smelling like vinegar!  Not sure which is worse. :D

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Limabeany

#52
August 17, 2013, 11:47:54 PM
These must have been a blessing!

QuoteNose-gays (literally kept the nose happy, or gay!) became popular when walking in the court or through crowds. A nosegay was something to keep the smells at bay, held in the hand, on the writs on a lapel. They could be a small bouquet of flowers, a sachet of dried flowers and herbs, an orange studded with cloves, or a sprig of herbs. People would often hold it up to their noses when walking in a large crowd.
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

amabel

#53
August 18, 2013, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: LIMABEANY on August 17, 2013, 02:06:43 PM
Quote from: cinrit on August 17, 2013, 01:58:51 PM
Me, too, Limabeany!  I have torn feelings about Mary Queen of Scots.  Lots of sympathy for her, but confusion over whether or not she was involved in plots to assassinate Elizabeth I.  I kinda think she was heavily involved. 

Cindy

I feel the exact same way! From France to Scotland, that is unimaginable in those days. Under those circumstances, and in that period she was no definitely no wallflower, I cannot imagine her as a passive bystander watching others determine how her future unfolds and yet... I know those were hard times but I think I just don't want her to have been involved in the plots but I think it likely she had knowledge of it. It seems if her head was at risk she should not have been in the dark...
of course she was involved in the Plots to kill Eliz and probably the one to kill Darnley.

cinrit

#54
August 18, 2013, 11:56:51 AM
I believe so, too, Amabel.  I also don't believe Bothwell forced her to marry him.  I think she was a willing bride.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

cinrit

#55
August 18, 2013, 12:58:33 PM
QuoteSince 1971 film-makers have tried to emulate the Oscar-winning success of Mary, Queen of Scots, starring Vanessa Redgrave and Glenda Jackson as the tragic Scottish queen and her nemesis, Elizabeth I. Aborted later attempts include one by Hollywood's actress-producer Scarlett Johansson and British director Alexander Mackendrick.

Two UK productions are still at early stages, but a Swiss film-maker has beaten them to it with a sympathetic psychological portrait set to be an art-house hit. Zurich-based Thomas Imbach has directed, produced and co-written the film, with Camille Rutherford playing Mary, which has been singled out for this season's festivals at Locarno and Toronto.

More than 400 years after she was executed by Elizabeth, the Protestant Queen of England, Mary Stuart remains the most enigmatic royal in Britain's history. Imbach said he has tried to represent her as "neither a saintly heroine motivated by Catholicism nor ambitious queen obsessed with power, but as a modern woman, passionate and fragile". The film is based on Austrian novelist Stefan Zweig's 1935 biography, Mary Stuart, a long-term bestseller in Germany and France but out of print in England and the US for decades.

After 400 years Mary, Queen of Scots again captures the fascination of film-makers | Film | The Observer

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Limabeany

#56
August 18, 2013, 01:16:38 PM
A string of Mary films!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mbb: :mbb: :mbb: :yesss: :yesss: :yesss: :thanks: :happy20: :happy20: :happy20: :banana: :banana: :banana:
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

cinrit

#57
August 18, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
I hope they stick at least a little closer to the facts than most historical movies do.  The best Mary Queen of Scots movie so far was the one with Vanessa Redgrave as Mary, and Glenda Jackson as Elizabeth I ("Mary, Queen of Scots" in 1971 or '72).  But the movie had the two queens not only meeting in person, but meeting in person twice.  In real life, they never met.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Limabeany

#58
August 18, 2013, 02:57:05 PM
I agree.
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

Lothwen

#59
August 18, 2013, 04:15:14 PM
^^But why have a movie with two Hollywood legends if you're never going to have them share the screen? :teehee:

You may think you're cool, but do you have a smiley named after you?
Harryite 12-005

Okay, fine.  Macrobug is now as cool as I am

Lothwen

#60
August 18, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
^I agree.

You may think you're cool, but do you have a smiley named after you?
Harryite 12-005

Okay, fine.  Macrobug is now as cool as I am

amabel

#61
August 18, 2013, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: cinrit on August 18, 2013, 11:56:51 AM
I believe so, too, Amabel.  I also don't believe Bothwell forced her to marry him.  I think she was a willing bride.

Cindy
MM not sure about that.  I think that she wanted rid of Darnely but wasn't' so sure she wanted Bohtwell.  he might have raped her and forced her to marry him.  She certainly abandoned him pretty quickly.. and wanted rid of the marriage

cinrit

#62
August 18, 2013, 05:43:38 PM
I think they were parted because they more or less had to, weren't they?  Mary thought she could get safe passage to England, but Bothwell was not included.  I'd have to go back and re-read up on that part, but I got the impression she deserted him to save her life.  Not a great love story, that's true.  She ended up imprisoned by Elizabeth I, and he ended up stark raving mad in a prison in ... was it Denmark?

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Limabeany

#63
August 18, 2013, 07:06:49 PM
True... Dramatic effect...
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

amabel

#64
August 19, 2013, 05:20:32 AM
Yes, but she would have certainly been better to go to France than to England, since she had laid claim to the English throne so it was kind of foolish to expect Elizabeth to shelter her.  And once imprisoned Mary started to look for a divorce from Bohtwell and made plans to marry the Duke of Norfolk.  The odds are that either she married him because she believed he could control Scotland for her and when that was not the case, she dropped him. or that she used him to get rid of Darnley, but didn't intend to marry him as a reward.  When he had done the job of getting rid of Darnley, odds are that either she did voluntarily marry him, OR he raped her to forced her into it.  He did die insane in Denmark.

cinrit

#65
August 19, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
I think the reason she didn't go to France was because of Catherine d'Medici.  Catherine disliked her because of jealousy.  Or am I remembering wrong?  Of course, expecting Elizabeth to greet her with open arms was ridiculous, but she may have thought since Elizabeth was her cousin, she'd be safe.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

amabel

#66
August 19, 2013, 04:09:28 PM
I think there's no fathoming Mary Stuarts behaviour because she was really dim!  She had relatives in France, she had lands, and while Cath De Medici might not have wanted her, she would certialnly have been safer there.  As someone said "how very foolish to claim a throne and then fly for protection to the person whose throne you have claimed!"

cinrit

#67
August 19, 2013, 04:25:16 PM
Very true ... at least she would've been safe in France.  It probably would never have occurred to her that it would end the way it did, but she should've considered the possibility of being imprisoned.  Didn't Elizabeth deny her safe passage, anyway?

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.

Limabeany

#68
August 19, 2013, 05:00:02 PM Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 05:03:58 PM by LIMABEANY
Yes, through England so Mary went straight to Leith from Calais.
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

amabel

#69
August 20, 2013, 08:12:00 AM
Quote from: cinrit on August 19, 2013, 04:25:16 PM
Very true ... at least she would've been safe in France.  It probably would never have occurred to her that it would end the way it did, but she should've considered the possibility of being imprisoned.  Didn't Elizabeth deny her safe passage, anyway?

Cindy
When she was travelling to Scotland from France IIRC Eliz refused her safe passage unless she gave up her claim to the English throne.

amabel

#70
August 20, 2013, 10:49:44 AM
Quote from: cinrit on August 18, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
I ("Mary, Queen of Scots" in 1971 or '72).  But the movie had the two queens not only meeting in person, but meeting in person twice.  In real life, they never met.

Cindy

But that is a dramatic device which I think is necessary in the conext of the film, so that Eliz and Mary can argue about their roles as queens.

Limabeany

#71
August 20, 2013, 05:27:23 PM
1972.  :vday4: I haven't liked any scene where they have them meet, Mary always comes across as evil to Liz's righteousness.
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

amabel

#72
August 20, 2013, 05:28:28 PM
Hardly.  As Eliz says if Mary's head had been as good as her heart, she'd have been a great Queen.

Limabeany

#73
August 20, 2013, 05:33:20 PM
I said that they portray Mary in those scenes as not as righteous as Liz not that she wasn't.
"You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'." Diana Vreeland.

cinrit

#74
August 20, 2013, 05:43:04 PM
Elizabeth comes off as very arrogant in their last scene together, not long before Mary is beheaded.

Another thing that Elizabeth said in the movie that has stuck with me was (comparing herself to Mary), "That Queen has the heart of a woman.  This woman has the heart of a Queen."  Or words to that effect.

Cindy
Always be yourself.  Unless you can be a unicorn.  Then always be a unicorn.
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