The Sussex Family General Chat Part 3

[HistoryGirl2]

^This is all just a guess, but it seems to me that Harry, for the most part, drank to dull his own feelings for the majority of his life. I think the Palace did a great job spinning his antics as the ?lovable, rebellious royal just being Harry.? As a result, he was quite popular throughout his entire life.

I don?t think he was angry all the time, even though his resentment was always there. I think he mostly joked it off or drank it off. When anger did bubble up, William advised that he see a therapist. From that point on, I?m not sure there was anything other members of the family could have done. He is and was a grown man at the time.

I don?t think the resentment spontaneously formed when he met Meghan. I think she just encouraged him to speak his feelings. On that point, I agree with her. It is important for everyone to understand and come to terms with their emotions, whether they happened in childhood or yesterday.

However, I think she has also enabled his victimhood because she herself identifies as a victim. This is an identity which requires constant fodder in the mind. This is then presented as someone ?stating their truth,? but it mostly consists of dwelling in feelings of resentment instead of confronting the problem and putting it into perspective. I think they both lack perspective and view everything that doesn?t go their way as an attack.

There were actual attacks against her by certain people and press regarding her race. All of which are unacceptable, no two ways about it. However, they now conflate any critique (whether it be from media, the family, and/or staff) and lump it in the same category. Again, lacking perspective and honesty.

So, to sum it up, I do believe the family saw that he was struggling and advised him to seek help. But do I think they ever thought he had such deep-rooted resentment toward them? No, I don?t.

Additionally, what more could they have done? They have given him what he wanted. He wanted to be a soldier that wasn?t just honorary? The Queen and Charles found a way for him to go to Afghanistan in a way that kept him safe enough but still allowed him enough freedom to feel a part of the army. He wanted to marry an actress soon after meeting her? Done, Charles even offered to walk her down the aisle when her dad wasn?t allowed at the wedding. What they couldn?t change was their place in the line of succession and therefore importance in the Firm. No, the Queen wasn?t going to bend the rules so they could both make money while being working royals. No, they would not be given equal precedence to William and Kate. They see that as proof of a conspiracy against their popularity. But perspective will tell you, thems the rules in a hierarchical system.

[wannable]

Credit to James Lowther Pinkerton, he did a great job with the time bomb.

On another hand, Meghan Markle is the boss, she is truly the numero 1, drivers seat!!!. So much for the PR of Harry's sacrifice doing a whirlwind trip to arrive Saturday evening to his family, just for a next day arranged pictures of the Boss with Backgrid hiking with her 'whom it started' from the beginning of times'; the Soho manager and the Yoga instructor, both in public pictures early 2017. There are loads of pictures with the 5 hour drive/hike/drive...

IOW, a great PR machine a la JLP mentioned above, would have told the couple that after the 'coronation negotiations', invent or have pictures ready of a family activity this past Sunday, this would cover the H sacrifice, the M is staying with the children, the birthday party, which technically an ETA 7:00 p.m. a drive to Montecito from LAX is 2 hours, 9:00 p.m., a family man would spend it with his family the next day.   

NY Post criticized exactly that last night, like flabbergasted of their own self sabotage.

Alternatively they both can't help it, the self sabotaging.  Matter of fact, no need of an expert PR to fix the above recount. It would normally come naturally to do a fam activity especially under the circumstances of the heavy PR from their team of the H plans and M plans, but wow.

[HistoryGirl2]

^Those types of staged paparazzi pictures are par for the course in the business. As are the little drops of news about Archie?s party that were given to the Telegraph. Truthfully, I don?t personally see problem with that. They have to make money and that requires media attention of the right sort.

I see that as a positive step in the right direction. They haven?t said anything negative about the family and are going on about their business. True, it?s only been three days, but a positive step is a positive step, in my opinion.

[Amabel2]

^This is all just a guess, but it seems to me that Harry, for the most part, drank to dull his own feelings for the majority of his life. I think the Palace did a great job spinning his antics as the ?lovable, rebellious royal just being Harry.? As a result, he was quite popular throughout his entire life.

I don?t think he was angry all the time, even though his resentment was always there. I think he mostly joked it off or drank it off. When anger did bubble up, William advised that he see a therapist. From that point on, I?m not sure there was anything other members of the family could have done. He is and was a grown man at the time.

Someone who is drinking and using drugs to dull their feelings of anger and despair is someone who is in  a mess.  It is a dangerous way to handle such issues.
  From what I can recall, H said that he was angry for 20 years and drank, and then Will urged him to seek help. I think that he was pretty screwed up from his teens onwards and I do wonder did the RF know how bad he was and worry about it, or did they not know?  Or did they just try to ignore it as they often do. There are a couple of occasions where Will makes a joke about Harry and I wonder, now, if these jokes were indicative of tension between the brothers rather than good humoured ribbing or ordinary boys fighting.  Did Will find his brother dangerously volatile and worried that he was going to implode, or just found him hard to cope with and just put on a front in public.  DId Charles perhaps worry that Harry with a foreign wife who didn't know much about royal life, would not really settle down to steady royal duties as a married man adn thought perhaps he would be better to go away and live abroad....

[HistoryGirl2]

^Honestly, I doubt we?ll ever get any confirmation one way or another because William and Charles are the only people who could answer that. But if I had to guess, no, I don?t think they realized he was that angry. His father has been worried about him since he was a teenager, though. And William tried talking to Harry about their mother and Harry didn?t want to. What could he do? Force him?

I also think these things tend to ebb and flow. I don?t think Harry was angry every minute of his life. He likely had bursts of anger. Then he calmed down. So, when you look at it from the collective you think it was nonstop anger, resentment, booze and drugs. But Harry also was at Sandhurst, then the army, had girlfriends, worked with Invictus, did his royal duties, and had an active social life. I don?t think he would have looked ?in crisis? to his family. He led a full life, even though internally he was quite resentful.

I also believe this is the type of family where you?re meant to sort yourself out. No one is going to call you up to chat about your feelings on a random Tuesday, and Harry has admitted that he tried to be the same way, so I don?t think he told anybody about his problems either. He masked his real feelings for the majority of his life, so I?m not sure anybody would have seen him as a ticking time bomb. The family (just like all of our families) are filled with people that have their own issues of one sort or another. Most of us don?t spent every waking minute worrying until something happens. This is the something for the RF.

[Amabel2]

I think there was more worry than you are thinking.  Charles knew Harry was drinking as a boy, and using drugs and abusing barmen.  WIll likely knew that Harry was unhappy and angry at their mother's death, H himself says that he spoke to Will about how he believed for a long time that she was faking her death.  I think if I had a brother who was holiding onto an idea like that for a long time, Id be worrying...... I think he did try to get H to cut down the boozing and drugging and get him into therapy but of course he could not make him go or stop drinking. Yes H did go to Sandhurst and was in the army but Im not sure he was really doing all that well there.

[HistoryGirl2]

^After the things that have gone on in that family, I?d be hard pressed to believe that Harry is even top ten as far concerning behavior. They?ve ignored far worse. They suggested he go see a therapist for his anger, and he was seeing a therapist for an undisclosed amount of time as an adult.

It?s true, they could have all been terrified of what he was going to do next, but I don?t really see any proof of it. He drank and he did recreational drugs, not exactly rare in that set. And unless he was showing up drunk to a state dinner or at brunch with Grandma, I don?t think they?d consider him a candidate for Betty Ford.

[Amabel2]

like who?  I suppose you mean Andrew but his problem was mostly women, and he conducted it off stage.  Andrew does not drink and did a fair amount of royal duties, until he had to stop in 2019.   Harry OTOH was using drugs and drink, while serving in the army, and then he was going to be expected to take on full time royal duties and be in the spotlight quite a bit... 
I had always wondered why there were stories that he and Meg might go and live in Africa, or something outside royal life, and I think that it was perhaps because charles wondered if his son would stick out royal duties, or blow up soem day....

[HistoryGirl2]

^His father was cheating on his wife and carrying on with a married woman and their public conversations got out for the whole world to see and even then the Queen didn?t want to get involved. That was after years of fighting and carrying on in private and everyone in the family was aware. Still nothing. Until they were forced to act.

Princess Margaret drank to excess and had to quit eventually because it led to poor health. Diana was bulimic for years and no one held an intervention.

And I?d say Andrew?s problems aren?t exactly something that can be set to the side because he did it behind closed doors. But they did mostly ignore it, until they couldn?t anymore.

The family has a long history of just letting every member deal with their own problems until the Firm has to act. I?d say that?s more to do with their backgrounds than out of cruelty or lack of care.

I think Charles wanted his son to be happy, but I don?t think he knew how to make him happy (trick question, no one can make you happy, only you can make that choice). So, he mainly just let him do what he wanted to at that point in time, unless it embarrassed the monarchy?modus operandi for the Windsors.

[Amabel2]

That is not at all true.  Diana's bulimia was known from early on and the RF did call in doctors and psychiatrists from the first months of the marriage to try to help with her problems.

[HistoryGirl2]

^And did it fix the problem? Where they on pins and needles waiting for her bomb to set off? Harry was also told to see a therapist. From that point on, they felt it was his responsibility to deal with it just like they felt it was Diana?s to overcome her illness. I?m sure they didn?t call her every night asking her if she had regurgitated her lunch. They advised her to seek help and that was that.

So, how would that be any different? If there?s one thing about the BRF that?s been consistent is that they don?t baby anyone. You?re expected to live up to a certain set of standards and you don?t get a life coach to make sure you?re on the path. They have aides and PR, but they?re not there to dictate how a member of the RF is going to live their lives. Show up to work and don?t embarrass the family. That?s the bottom line.

[Amabel2]

From what I've read about Diana, yes there were people worryin about Diana in terms of how she acted in public.  DId she turn up for her engagement etc.  I don't suppose the queen asked questions about the bulimia because it is not her style but there was concern about how well she was coping. Charles also saw a psychiatrist in the early years of the marriage...  because of Diana's problems.
And Harry was of a different generation to Diana and the queen.  He credits William with getting him to see a therapist and Im sure that William hoped that the therapy would help him cut out the use of drugs and so on.  Of course in the end its Harrys own responsibility to work with his therapist and try to get a grip on his problems.

[HistoryGirl2]

^And that is unfortunate. I actually agree with Harry that it can be a toxic environment. It takes a certain mindset to be able to lead that type of life. Some people can handle it and others cannot. He?s not wrong for not wanting to be a part of that life. He did have a very traumatic thing happen to him and he needed to find a way to confront that loss to be able to move forward. I think William and Charles knew he hadn?t fully come to terms with it, but to the original question, no I don?t think they thought he was a ticking time bomb. They likely thought their son and brother was struggling, but he?d find a way to overcome.

I don?t think in a million years they thought that he was this angry about his brother?s privileges though. And that?s important to note because Harry?s anger isn?t just at the media or at his mother?s death, it?s also the jealousy of William and Kate being treated differently to him and Meghan. That is the vitriol that I don?t think anyone in the family knew was to that degree of vindictiveness.

[wannable]

SARAH VINE: Sorry, Harry, the one reason America cared about you was because you were part of the Royal Family. Is there a Plan B?

SARAH VINE: Is there a Plan B for Prince Harry? | Daily Mail Online

[Curryong]

SARAH VINE: Sorry, Harry, the one reason America cared about you was because you were part of the Royal Family. Is there a Plan B?

SARAH VINE: Is there a Plan B for Prince Harry? | Daily Mail Online

Ah yes, Sarah Vine of the questionable views. In May 2020, Vine shared a bookcase picture "as a very special treat for my trolls" which featured a book by the Holocaust denier David Irving, and a copy of The Bell Curve, which controversially claims that intelligence is highly heritable and that median IQ varies among races. Admirable, I?m sure!

And of course there was a question about the kitchen she boasted about, and the 7,000 pounds to fix it up that apparently had come from her Conservative MP?s expenses account.

People who live in glass houses, Sarah, shouldn?t throw stones!

[Kristeh-H]

I just wanted to say, in regards to Diana and Harry having therapy, and this is true for everyone--that the most loving family and the best therapist in the world cannot help if the person in question doesn't want to be helped.  That is, the person has to accept that there is a problem and be willing to take on the hard task of working and changing to make it better or to accept it.  Family, friends, therapists can help and guide and be supportive, but no one else can do the work for that person.  No one else can make them heal. 

It's a hard truth I've had to accept in my own life.

[HistoryGirl2]

^I agree. Deflecting, passing off blame, and thinking the rest of the world is the problem will only serve to prolong a person?s discontent and distress.

[Nightowl]

Nightowl, Harry's return was meaningful to me. I hope for a happy reconciliation between Harry and his royal family members.

I am glad for you yet let me ask you this.......just how in the heck could anyone ever TRUST Harry or Meghan again after all the crap they have dished out to the royal family?  And believe me *Trust is way more important then Love* as there is no love if you can't Trust a person.

[Nightowl]

I just wanted to say, in regards to Diana and Harry having therapy, and this is true for everyone--that the most loving family and the best therapist in the world cannot help if the person in question doesn't want to be helped.  That is, the person has to accept that there is a problem and be willing to take on the hard task of working and changing to make it better or to accept it.  Family, friends, therapists can help and guide and be supportive, but no one else can do the work for that person.  No one else can make them heal. 

It's a hard truth I've had to accept in my own life.

A *Brilliant* comment, Therapy does not work for anyone unless that person accepts that there is a problem and a person must do the work to change their own life and heal within themselves. Nobody can do the work for you when your in therapy.......it is hard work, digging deep down and accepting the facts of your own behavior and decisions and why things are the way they are now.....real hard work.
Harry has a very long way to go before he hits bottom as does his wife which in my opinion will never happen as her own ego has a very large pedestal.

Yes to *It's a hard truth* as I also had to accept that in my own life.  Therapy does wonders if a person accepts it and it saves lives also.

[Curryong]

Harry's ghostwriter opens up about living with Duke and Duchess of Sussex while working on Spare | Daily Mail Online

He explained: 'Harry won the heart of my daughter, Gracie, with his vast ?Moana? scholarship.

'His favorite scene, he told her, is when Heihei, the silly chicken, finds himself lost at sea.'

Following this trip, J.R. then flew out to California again - which is when he stayed in the couple's guest house.

During his visit, the author noted how the Duchess of Sussex enjoys exploring the 13,600sq ft estate with the couple's eldest child Archie, four.

He added: 'Harry put me up in his guesthouse, where Meghan and Archie would visit me on their afternoon walks.'

The author says his attentive hostess could tell that he was struggling being away from home for long periods of time.

'Meghan, knowing I was missing my family, was forever bringing trays of food and sweets,' the writer said.

[TLLK]

I just wanted to say, in regards to Diana and Harry having therapy, and this is true for everyone--that the most loving family and the best therapist in the world cannot help if the person in question doesn't want to be helped.  That is, the person has to accept that there is a problem and be willing to take on the hard task of working and changing to make it better or to accept it.  Family, friends, therapists can help and guide and be supportive, but no one else can do the work for that person.  No one else can make them heal. 

It's a hard truth I've had to accept in my own life.

@Kristeh-H -I know exactly what you mean and have had to face a similar truth myself.

[Kristeh-H]

Thanks, Nightowl and TLLK.  I'm sorry for all of us--the people who see loved ones in trouble and are very limited in being able to help.  It's heartbreaking and frustrating.

[wannable]

This past Friday night sushi for Meghan and Harry

TMZ

[TLLK]

The Sussexes were joined by celebrities that evening.

Prince Harry, Meghan Markle seen for 1st time since coronation

We?re told they dined with Gwyneth Paltrow and her husband, TV producer, Brad Falchuk. The foursome was also accompanied by Cameron Diaz and her husband, Benji Madden, as well as the CEO and founder of Bumble, Whitney Wolf Herd, and her husband, Texas oil heir Michael Herd.

[Nightowl]

Yes,  the Sussex's were dining with Gwyneth Paltrow and her husband, TV producer, Brad Falchuk and
Cameron Diaz and her husband, Benji Madden, as well as the CEO and founder of Bumble, Whitney Wolf Herd, and her husband, Texas oil heir Michael Herd at am excellent Sushi restaurant.   

Nice evening out with friends or maybe future business associates, yet it tells me that this is what Meghan climbed into the royal bedroom for, not to be a royal working member of the royal family but to be near and dear to what those in the entertainment industry that can offer her a way back into that world that she was once in after she left the BRF. After all this is a woman who plans her life down to the finest detail....Oh, Harry is just along for the ride and his signature....  Hope it works out for all parties! And time to move on to new things in life.