Keeping a separate court

LouisFerdinand · January 02, 2019, 09:58:56 PM

Would it have been possible for Princess Diana not to have divorced Prince Charles? Could she have kept a separate court? She would have remained in the Royal Family. She would have kept her children and her title as Princess of Wales.

:xmas24: :xmas24: :xmas24: :xmas24: :xmas24:

amabel · January 26, 2019, 12:47:59 PM

Of course it would have been possible for Diana not to have divorced.. It was the last thing the Queen wanted. but she could not have had a separate court if she remained married...

Curryong · February 05, 2019, 08:30:35 AM

Friends and I were talking about Diana the other night and a discussion started up with younger people who hardly knew her as to whether Diana could be described as 'a Champagne Socialist' or not? I have my own opinion as a Diana fan, but can people who grow up in enormous privilege and marry into an even more wealthy hierarchy, really understand the lives of the poor and dispossessed or is it necessary to live as ordinary people do for at least a period of time in one's life?

amabel · February 05, 2019, 06:01:11 PM

I doubt If you could call her a champagne socialst. Im sure she ahad litle idiea of politics....

sandy · February 05, 2019, 07:08:21 PM

Quote from: amabel on January 26, 2019, 12:47:59 PM
Of course it would have been possible for Diana not to have divorced.. It was the last thing the Queen wanted. but she could not have had a separate court if she remained married...

Charles treated her with increasing contempt. I think Camilla did not want to be mistress forever. So it was inevitable that divorce was the option.

amabel · February 05, 2019, 07:15:44 PM

No it wasn't inevitable.. It was very much the last resort

sandy · February 05, 2019, 07:18:49 PM

Under the circumstances it became inevitable. Charles for one thing named Camilla publicly forcing the divorce of his mistress and her husband.

amabel · February 05, 2019, 07:19:26 PM

Let me see, who put out the book sayng that her marriage was a sham......

sandy · February 05, 2019, 07:20:57 PM

Let me see, who had his friends go around leaking stories about his wife...Which led to the Morton book. And let me see, who told the world he would continue seeing a married woman and he cheated on his wife.

LouisFerdinand · February 05, 2019, 09:27:17 PM

In the British Royal Family who did Princess Diana feel the closest to?

TLLK · February 06, 2019, 02:28:25 PM

I would say her children but over the years she had close relationships with Sarah, Duchess of York, and Princess Margaret.

amabel · February 06, 2019, 06:13:35 PM

I'd say none of them, apart from her sons.....

royalanthropologist · February 06, 2019, 06:24:55 PM

Quote from: amabel on January 26, 2019, 12:47:59 PM
Of course it would have been possible for Diana not to have divorced.. It was the last thing the Queen wanted. but she could not have had a separate court if she remained married...

A separate court ridiculous. What if Charles wanted to marry again? I think it was imperative that they had a clean break divorce once the queen came to accept that there was no way this marriage could continue. Allowing her a separate court would muddy the waters. I can only imagine the nonsense that would take place when Charles wanted to get married again.

I think they wanted her at arms-length but not so far away that she could be free to attack them in the media. Hence, the gagging clauses and the need for permission to attend certain functions.

amabel · February 06, 2019, 06:25:16 PM

Quote from: sandy on February 05, 2019, 07:20:57 PM
Let me see, who had his friends go around leaking stories about his wife...Which led to the Morton book. And let me see, who told the world he would continue seeing a married woman and he cheated on his wife.

Adn Diana was the other woman in a man's marriage.....

Double post auto-merged: February 06, 2019, 06:26:34 PM

Quote from: royalanthropologist on February 06, 2019, 06:24:55 PM
A separate court ridiculous. What if Charles wanted to marry again? I think it was imperative that they had a clean break divorce once the queen came to accept that there was no way this marriage could continue. Allowing her a separate court would muddy the waters. I can only imagine the nonsense that would take place when Charles wanted to get married again.

I think they wanted her at arms-length but not so far away that she could be free to attack them in the media. Hence, the gagging clauses and the need for permission to attend certain functions.

I said, if she stayed married to him.. but in fact they were leading separate lives, workwise for some time before they even officially separated...
If she and Charles divorced, she would not have a court at all, because she'd no longe be royal

royalanthropologist · February 06, 2019, 06:30:23 PM

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on February 05, 2019, 09:27:17 PM
In the British Royal Family who did Princess Diana feel the closest to?

Apart from her sons, I do not think Diana had any real friend in BRF. Even if she had them, they would be terrified of being associated with her after Morton and Panorama. That would be an implicit snub to Queen, QM, DOE and Charles who were the most powerful members of the firm.

I understand Princess Michael liked her at first but then did a program saying that she led the glory go to her head. Likewise Princess Margaret liked her until Panorama when she became public enemy number one. She was said to like Andrew and Fergie but none of them could be seen to associate or support her. Fergie in particular went pear-shaped and they were not on speaking terms at the time of her death. When push came to shove, family and duty always trumped any sympathy they might have with Diana.

amabel · February 06, 2019, 06:34:59 PM

Quote from: royalanthropologist on February 06, 2019, 06:30:23 PM
Apart from her sons, I do not think Diana had any real friend in BRF. Even if she had them, they would be terrified of being associated with her after Morton and Panorama. That would be an implicit snub to Queen, QM, DOE and Charles who were the most powerful members of the firm.

I understand Princess Michael liked her at first but then did a program saying that she led the glory go to her head. Likewise Princess Margaret liked her until Panorama when she became public enemy number one. She was said to like Andrew and Fergie but none of them could be seen to associate or support her. Fergie in particular went pear-shaped and they were not on speaking terms at the time of her death. When push came to shove, family and duty always trumped any sympathy they might have with Diana.

I dotn think she had any great friends there true, but I think they mostly started out liking her. I've never heard that Pss Mich was very friendly, except at the end when she told Diana she would not expect her to curtsty to her... Margo was friendly for a time, but they had tiffs and Marg then did fall out with her competlely over Panorama, because she felt that it was disrespectful to the queen and RF in genereal?
Fergie was a good friend of hers, she was the one who introduced her to Andrew, and encouraged the romance... but Di fell out with her over varous things, including F's sayng that she gave her veruccas. (but I woudlnt' count Fergie as royal because she was soon an outsider in the RF). I dotn think she was great friend with Andrew and Edward, who were a bit young, when she married.. and then when Diana began to get into an antagonistic relationship with Charles and the RF, were naturally going to support their own blood relatives...

royalanthropologist · February 06, 2019, 06:36:23 PM

Quote from: amabel on February 06, 2019, 06:25:16 PM
I said, if she stayed married to him.. but in fact they were leading separate lives, workwise for some time before they even officially separated...
If she and Charles divorced, she would not have a court at all, because she'd no longe be royal

My bad. Yes, I think at the separation they (queen, government etc) thought that the Waleses could be separated without affecting their constitutional roles. That is what John Major said in Parliament but in reality it was eventually going to end in divorce. I cannot imagine Charles allowing his estranged wife to attend his coronation, let alone being crowned. Moreover, they had to make the way clear just in case Charles decided to marry again. As history has shown us, it is very dangerous to become an obstacle to a king that wants to get married again.

I think even from her own perspective, divorce was a release because she would now openly date and perhaps even marry anyone who took her fancy. Being a separated consort would put enormous pressures and restrictions on her. Knowing how Diana reacted to any kind of rules, I doubt she could live with that. Panorama is what confirmed to everyone that this marriage had to end in a clean divorce...nothing else was possible.

amabel · February 06, 2019, 06:40:12 PM

I think that she rally really didn't know what she wanted. She wantd to be free to have open relationships with men, but she was scared of being outside the protected life of a royal.. She thougtt it would be nice to be free and not have to sneak around with her lovers, but I think she was afraid when she realised that being outside the RF might mean that she wasn't wanted for charity work, so much, that the Presss might move on to other people... and I think she did have ideas that if Charles were to give up his place in the succession, she would have an influeintail role as Willl's mother...?.

sandy · February 06, 2019, 07:09:48 PM

Diana did not want to have "open relationships" with men. She told her friends she wanted to have a loving husband and maybe another child. She probably would have wanted a child born out of a marriage.

Diana was not "Scared" if she were she would have stayed put. She still was young.

Doors would have been kicked open for Diana out of the royal family. She was not "nothing" without the royal family. She would have her choice of charities and causes.

Of course if Charles did not outlive William she would have had a say. Diana knew darn well Charles was not going to step aside and she had no influence in that regard.

Double post auto-merged: February 06, 2019, 07:10:48 PM

Quote from: amabel on February 06, 2019, 06:13:35 PM
I'd say none of them, apart from her sons.....

Sarah Ferguson was no longer in the family when Diana died. Theoretically they could have reconciled their differences.

Double post auto-merged: February 06, 2019, 07:13:04 PM

Quote from: royalanthropologist on February 06, 2019, 06:36:23 PM
My bad. Yes, I think at the separation they (queen, government etc) thought that the Waleses could be separated without affecting their constitutional roles. That is what John Major said in Parliament but in reality it was eventually going to end in divorce. I cannot imagine Charles allowing his estranged wife to attend his coronation, let alone being crowned. Moreover, they had to make the way clear just in case Charles decided to marry again. As history has shown us, it is very dangerous to become an obstacle to a king that wants to get married again.

I think even from her own perspective, divorce was a release because she would now openly date and perhaps even marry anyone who took her fancy. Being a separated consort would put enormous pressures and restrictions on her. Knowing how Diana reacted to any kind of rules, I doubt she could live with that. Panorama is what confirmed to everyone that this marriage had to end in a clean divorce...nothing else was possible.

Charles said publicly he would not marry again. Charles did not admit Camilla was the other woman until 1994. Technically she was still another man's husband and only Charles outing her triggered the divorce in 1995.

Dimbleby a year before Panorama forced the divorce of the PBS. I think it more damaging than the Panorama. Charles blabbed he never loved Diana, he would continue seeing a married woman and on TV said he cheated on his wife. Charles had a really damning interview and confessions in the book he authorized.

Double post auto-merged: February 06, 2019, 07:14:24 PM

Quote from: amabel on February 06, 2019, 06:34:59 PM
I dotn think she had any great friends there true, but I think they mostly started out liking her. I've never heard that Pss Mich was very friendly, except at the end when she told Diana she would not expect her to curtsty to her... Margo was friendly for a time, but they had tiffs and Marg then did fall out with her competlely over Panorama, because she felt that it was disrespectful to the queen and RF in genereal?
Fergie was a good friend of hers, she was the one who introduced her to Andrew, and encouraged the romance... but Di fell out with her over varous things, including F's sayng that she gave her veruccas. (but I woudlnt' count Fergie as royal because she was soon an outsider in the RF). I dotn think she was great friend with Andrew and Edward, who were a bit young, when she married.. and then when Diana began to get into an antagonistic relationship with Charles and the RF, were naturally going to support their own blood relatives...

Charles had gotten into an antagonistic relationship with Diana when he foisted his "friendship" with Camilla Parker Bowles on the marriage. He seems to get off scott free with some.

amabel · February 06, 2019, 07:36:07 PM

I thought that you said she might live with Hasnat Khan...???...

sandy · February 06, 2019, 07:40:10 PM

Which would not mean she would get pregnant while living with him...should be obvious without asking me. If you notice I wrote husband and children. This is something that is getting into word games now.

amabel · February 06, 2019, 07:41:23 PM

Quote from: sandy on February 06, 2019, 07:40:10 PM
Which would not mean she would get pregnant while living with him...should be obvious without asking me.

I don't know what that means. People who live together often have children.. no law against it..

sandy · February 06, 2019, 07:42:10 PM

Diana said husband and more children.

amabel · February 06, 2019, 07:44:01 PM

Quote from: sandy on February 06, 2019, 07:42:10 PM
Diana said husband and more children.

but you said that she might live with Khan, rather than maryign him. If she really wanted more children, would that relationship not possibly involve having a child?

sandy · February 06, 2019, 07:49:56 PM

This is purely hypothetical, it is not worth your cross examining me about what ifs. Whatever would have happened they would make their own decisions. I can't speak for what they "would have done." Your saying But you said, is totally pointless since we are talking something that would never happen.