The War of the Wales' discussion Part 3

[sandy]

MAF could have pushed Dodi. But if Diana did not want him he would need to back off. Dodi did have a choice, he did not have to give up his girlfriend/fiancee. I don't think he was all that interested in her in the first place if his father could tell him to break up with her and he complied.

[amabel]

Could he "force" Diana to marry his son? No. Could he and would he continue to push Dodi into spending time with Diana? Most likely yes and yes.

Of course he could.  And Diana was caught up in the whole mess.. so that she could not get out of it.  I think she was tired and cross and fed up that last night, I think many women would have been..but she wasn't an ordinary woman who could get mad, wlak off in a huff and get a taxi home.  She was tangled up with the FAyeds and their schemes...
Double post auto-merged: January 08, 2020, 04:03:10 PM

MAF could have pushed Dodi. But if Diana did not want him he would need to back off. Dodi did have a choice, he did not have to give up his girlfriend/fiancee. I don't think he was all that interested in her in the first place if his father could tell him to break up with her and he complied.

He didn't officialy break up with her.  He tried to play both of thtem, then MAF told KElly F to leave Dodi alone and he backed off,  becauase Dodi DId what his father told him to do.     He had no choice if he wanted Dad to go on payig his bills.. which is why if MAF had firmly said that last night, to leave the plan alone and to sty at the Ritz Dodi would have almost certainly gone along with it.

[TLLK]

MAF could have pushed Dodi. But if Diana did not want him he would need to back off. Dodi did have a choice, he did not have to give up his girlfriend/fiancee. I don't think he was all that interested in her in the first place if his father could tell him to break up with her and he complied.

So we agree that MAF could have continued to push Dodi  into seeing Diana and we agree that Diana could have said no to any furthering of their relationship beyond the summer of 1997. :thumbsup:

[sandy]

Diana could get out of it. She got out of relationships before. She changed her phone number after she wanted to move on from Hasnet.

Diana had no obligation to marry Dodi. Her mood that night is subject to speculation. She was not eloping, the trip was only to Dodi's apartment. She had the freedom to say no to the proposal if he had intended to propose. Women have come a long way where they are not 'forced' to marry somebody.  She was in a fatal auto accident. All she was was going to stay at his apartment. No wedding chapel.

[amabel]

So we agree that MAF could have continued to push Dodi  into seeing Diana and we agree that Diana could have said no to any furthering of their relationship beyond the summer of 1997. :thumbsup:

well she could but she didn't seem to be giving the Fayeds a clear signal that she was getting fed up wit the whole thing and wanted out.  Most likely she would not have broken with D till she found a new boyfriend.. and that ngiht, she was tied to their plans and Doddi's messy disorganised lifestyle..
Double post auto-merged: January 08, 2020, 04:08:36 PM

Diana could get out of it. She got out of relationships before. She changed her phone number after she wanted to move on from Hasnet.

Diana had no obligation to marry Dodi. Her mood that night is subject to speculation. She was not eloping, the trip was only to Dodi's apartment. She had the freedom to say no to the proposal if he had intended to propose. Women have come a long way where they are not 'forced' to marry somebody.  She was in a fatal auto accident. All she was was going to stay at his apartment. No wedding chapel.

but she was tied to them.  She was stuck with Dodi's bad security system and his stupid plan to hav her driven home by an unlicensed untrained driver. 

[sandy]

It was so early in the relationship. I did not see any clear signals.

She was going to London the next morning. So she could not have been tied to them. The accident happened.

[TLLK]

Diana could get out of it. She got out of relationships before. She changed her phone number after she wanted to move on from Hasnet.

Diana had no obligation to marry Dodi. Her mood that night is subject to speculation. She was not eloping, the trip was only to Dodi's apartment. She had the freedom to say no to the proposal if he had intended to propose. Women have come a long way where they are not 'forced' to marry somebody.  She was in a fatal auto accident. All she was was going to stay at his apartment. No wedding chapel.

Yes like I said in my earlier post you and I agree that Diana could say no to any further relationship with Dodi. :thumbsup:

[amabel]

Yes like I said in my earlier post you and I agree that Diana could say no to any further relationship with Dodi. :thumbsup:

She could, but I thnk she wouldn't have ended it till she had another boyfriend.. and that was fatally late

[sandy]

Diana did not necessarily have to have another boyfriend before breaking up with Dodi. She also might have wanted to be single for a while before moving on. It would be rather awkward for her to break up when she was dating Dodi and serious about seeing someone else. If she knew there was no future she would have dropped Dodi. She was only  a divorcee for a year when she was dating Dodi.

[amabel]

Diana did not necessarily have to have another boyfriend before breaking up with Dodi. She also might have wanted to be single for a while before moving on. It would be rather awkward for her to break up when she was dating Dodi and serious about seeing someone else. If she knew there was no future she would have dropped Dodi. She was only  a divorcee for a year when she was dating Dodi.

I suspect she would have waited til she was seeing someone else.  She was droping hints to her friends that she didn't see the affair with Dodi as going anywhere...and she must have been becoming fed up with him.. yet she was saying things like she might drop the Red cross charity work and start up a foundation with MAF and Dodi...

[oak_and_cedar]

Diana was not serious to an extent to consider marrying Fayed IMO. I think she was fond of him but I don't think she 'loved' him.

It was a pleasant enough relationship where they got to know each other, and they had good chemistry Perhaps Diana would have dated him for a little while longer but that's it IMO.

I am of the opinion that Fayed dumped Kelly willingly. For all we know he could have been a sly sort only too happy to have the blame put on his father. Which I think is the case IMO.


I don't think that Diana would have dated immediately after ending things with Fayed. I think she would have focused on her work.

Double post auto-merged: January 08, 2020, 07:48:13 PM

if MAF had "vehemently" disagreed with him, he would have said "No, don't leave the Ritz tonight" and he could even have ordered staff to ensure that Dodi did not have to go.  He could have ordered his staff to go and pack their things and let them set off for the airport in the morning and provide more security for their safety...

He could very well have said that and his son could still not have obeyed him.
They were only employees and unless physically restraining him which was/is against the law, there was only so much they could do.

[amabel]

His son obeyed him.. He had to or daddy would not pay the bills.  MAF could have told the staff to get Dodi's things so that he didn't have to go out of the Ritz.. and to drop the idea of decoy cars and non trained drivers.
And I doubt if Diana would have focused "on her work".  She was clearly very ambivalent about her "Royal charity" work in the last year or 2.  She took up things and then dropped them..  She was talking about quitting workig with the Red Cross which had gotten her involved in the LANdmines issue which had gotten hr a lot of praise in the last few months.. so you'd thnk she would have wanted to go on with it..But instead she talked of doing some new charity work as a private individual with MAF.. Which of course would have depended on the romance with Dodi lasting... Yet she told people that it wasn't  a lasting romance.  Very hard to figure out what she was thinking...

[oak_and_cedar]

That is if his son told him everything.

He could have said 'alright i'll do it' and do the opposite.

We will never know unless we get the transcript of the phone call.

[amabel]

That is if his son told him everything.

He could have said 'alright i'll do it' and do the opposite.

We will never know unless we get the transcript of the phone call.

MAF said that he had told Dodi to stay at the Ritz and Dodi had said that they had to go and get their clothes.  QUITE easy for MAF to say "there's no need for you to do that, what do you have staff for."  but he does not appear to have claimed to say that.

[oak_and_cedar]

Perhaps he did?

You cannot controll someone that easily over the phone.

I think Fayed thought he had the situation under control.

[amabel]

MAF was trying to tell the world that he had no responsibility for what went wrong.. so if he was doing that, you would think that he would be shouting to the world that he had TOLD Dodi to stay in the Ritz and had made arrangemnets so that DIana and Dodi didn't have to go out.. but as Far as I know he didn't.. He seems to have indicated that he accepted that they had to go and get their thigns.. which was manifestly silly...

[oak_and_cedar]

I thought he did say that he told them to stay.

I haven't read this account where he claims that accepted that they had to go. Do you have any links to any articles?

[sandy]

He did tell them to stay. That is a known fact.

[amabel]

He did tell them to stay. That is a known fact.

but he did not insist.  he could have done so, told Dodi to stay and send staff to collect their clothes, to give up the stuff About Decoy cars and only takng 1 security guard...

[sandy]

I think he underestimated things and was overconfident that he could "control" his son. Had Al Fayed  been present at the Ritz, Dodi would be overruled. ANd Very firmly. Dodi also probably "spun" what was going on.

[amabel]

Im sure MAF could control Dodi by phone.  He gave the orders, he said jump and Dodi said How High.  Both of them were at fault....

[sandy]

Dodi gave the orders to do this, and probably did not tell his father the exact plans. He was there, he was a lot more to blame.

[amabel]

Dodi gave the orders to do this, and probably did not tell his father the exact plans. He was there, he was a lot more to blame.

both of them were to blame.  MAF could have provided more security guards, ordered Dodi to obey orders and not make their lives difficult.. and not have ordered Dodi to court Diana...

[sandy]

Dodi could have courted Diana without the stop in Paris.

Also if he wanted her to get the ring, he could have sent a minion to his apartment to retrieve it.

[oak_and_cedar]

He was in all likelyhood trying to impress Diana. IMO.

I read a vanity fair article where it said that Fayed liked Scarface and always made sure to buy people things etc. If I remember correctly.

There's was also another account of him when meeting Diana on vacation tried to act important having phone meetings near Diana so she could see how busy he was.

Probably Diana could see through that but liked other qualities that he showed.

It's darn shame that he felt the need to show off himself that night.