Did Princess Diana have some knowledge of the Royal Family?

[Trudie]

^ You don't reconcile the two Charles as there isn't two Charles. Charles is a thoroughly selfish man who is gentle and caring with those who are willing to yes him to death. Diana didn't so that, Diana treated him as a man and her husband who told him no and the only reason he married her was time was running out to find a suitable girl to marry and have legitimate heirs. As for Camilla she knows how to manipulate Charles the Camillagate tapes shows just how good she is if one really wants to listen to it. I suppose when he does need her back from Raymill she probably does come back to a nice piece of jewelry I read somewhere that Charles would buy Diana paste and give Camilla the real thing. IMO Charles surrounds himself with older friends because he always has this need to be told he is right and they are the only people who probably defer to him due to his position not as someone who today are less deferential.

[sandy]

I think Sandy mistook my message a little bit. I meant all relationships, not just romantic ones. There was a time when Diana was falling out with virtually everybody in her life apart from the glory seekers who fed  her all sorts of fantasies. To me that is not healthy. You may despise their relationship as much as you like but it seems Charles and Camilla have managed to keep their circle of friends pretty much together for close to nearly 50 years. By contrast Diana was falling out with everybody in her life. That is what I meant by unhealthy relationships.

Btw even Diana herself came to resent the Morton book (and  the author, whom she illogically blamed for publishing what she herself had requested him to do) because it made her look completely bonkers. That ridiculous story of throwing herself down the stairs proved to be problematic later on when she wanted to tidy up her narrative. By admitting it, she was effectively saying that she endangered William's life. By denying it, she was admitting to being an outright liar and fantasist. It was a catch 22 that was brought on by that book. In fact later on Diana would allegedly say to friends and journalists:  "It is so hurtful when people say that he never loved me. I can't have my children believing that their daddy never loved their mummy. We loved each other at first". Strange way of describing "the Lamb to the Slaughter" marriage??? I think that the Morton book was the beginning of the end. The panorama interview was the signing of the death warrant.

Actually Camilla froze people out according to some biographers. Charles also had full outs with people including Lady Kanga who was supposed to be according to Charles his "best good friend." If criticized, he is known to get into a hissy fit as some of his associates have testified. So I disagree with you about these two maintaining the same friends.

How did I misunderstand the message? You said I defended Diana and I agreed with you.

No, Diana did not fall out with "everybody" in her life that is so not true. She had her loyal friends who were friends with her until the day she died. Rosa Monckton, Carolyn Bartholomew, Lucia Flecha De La Lima, and Elsa Bowker come immediately to mind. So saying "everybody" is untrue. Diana was savvy enough to drop people who were disloyal to her and helped Charles and Camilla find places to have sex. DO you blame her for dropping them? Honestly?

There are sycophants who want to be with the Prince of Wales and Camilla because of their HRH. I am cynical about the "friendship" being based on who they are and their power. I think Charles most loyal friend is MIchael Fawcett.

I am glad Diana spoke out.  I think Charles was a fantasist because he thought his way of life "healthy." Sharing other men's wives is downright sick. IMO.

No I don't think it made Diana look "bonkers,:

As far as speaking out for Diana, I do wonder why you said "everybody" was dropped by her. That is a plain untruth no matter how you feel about Diana.
Double post auto-merged: January 13, 2017, 06:00:41 PM

^ You don't reconcile the two Charles as there isn't two Charles. Charles is a thoroughly selfish man who is gentle and caring with those who are willing to yes him to death. Diana didn't so that, Diana treated him as a man and her husband who told him no and the only reason he married her was time was running out to find a suitable girl to marry and have legitimate heirs. As for Camilla she knows how to manipulate Charles the Camillagate tapes shows just how good she is if one really wants to listen to it. I suppose when he does need her back from Raymill she probably does come back to a nice piece of jewelry I read somewhere that Charles would buy Diana paste and give Camilla the real thing. IMO Charles surrounds himself with older friends because he always has this need to be told he is right and they are the only people who probably defer to him due to his position not as someone who today are less deferential.

I agree. There are sycophants around Charles. Big time.
Double post auto-merged: January 13, 2017, 06:05:22 PM

I agree Curryong. Charles was and is still very selfish in some ways..."my way or the highway" mentality. The only reason he looks better now is that he is with a wife who just plays it safe. When he becomes too much for her, she retreats to her bolthole. He then pines for her reassurance and quickly asks her back (I suppose with magnificent jewels, which Camilla gobbles up with delight). Diana had no such choices. She had to deal with a much older man who fundamentally despised her and her friends.  Any sensible person would know that a 19 year old has very different interests from a 32 year old who is old before his time. Instead they wanted to dump her in cold Balmoral for hunting, fishing, reading and the like. Must have been deadly boring for a girl barely out of her teens. 

The truth is that Charles expected everyone to do the adjustment and him none. For some reason he believes he is always right and even if he is wrong, the mere mortals must submit to his will. But again like most people; Charles is complex. He can be incredibly gentle when he wants to be. I remember when Camilla was in a wheelchair and having her operation. He insisted on being at her side and pushing her around in the wheelchair. That is a very different Charles from the one who used to punish his first wife with bitchy put-downs and coldness. How to reconcile the two Charless???

Well another woman in a wheelchair and seriously ill (Lady Kanga) got the old heave ho from Charles. He could not have even been bothered to contact her before she died. She was in a wheelchair at some sort of event and Charles avoided her. I don't see Charles having a "soft side." Maybe for himself but if he drops someone, forget about it. Charles is one CHarles, selfish and self centered.

Diana could not do what Camilla did because Diana had Camilla clinging like a burr and interfering in her marriage. Camilla knows that Charles cannot afford another divorce and she is secure. HOnestly, I think the one who gives Charles the most reassurance his his right hand man Michael Fawcett.
Double post auto-merged: January 13, 2017, 06:25:30 PM

One more thing: Charles had his own "Morton" where he confessed all. I must confess after I read it (and reread it some years later) Charles clearly had issues. He blames everybody but himself, admitted he married Diana knowing he preferred his mistress, and trashed his parents. He moaned about everything under the sun. I think he still does no matter how his mistress allegedly makes him happy.
Double post auto-merged: January 13, 2017, 06:38:11 PM

Here is a description of how Charles treated Kanga his "good friend."

The lonely death of Charles's other mistress | Daily Mail Online

[LouisFerdinand]

It is sad that Charles did not make much of an attempt to make friends with Diana Frances' friends. Yet she, the future Queen Consort, was suppose to do his bidding.       
   
:o :unsure: :no: :( :shrug: :hmm: :o :unsure: :no: :(  :hmm: :o

[TLLK]

^^^Another reason that they were not well suited and should not have married. He is IMO an "old soul" who always seemed drawn to another decade unlike most of his generation. His tastes in music, clothing, literature, entertainment etc...reflect that where as Diana was interested in the music, entertainment, clothing of her own generation. She had far more in common with her more youthful peers. She apparently found his friends dull and he found hers to be immature. There was very little common ground except for their children and royal duties IMHO. Even though they both enjoyed athletic pursuits, they didn't participate in the same activities.

[sandy]

Charles found her "well suited" because she met his criteria: no past, fertile, aristo, and attractive. He knew darn well what he wanted. He was turned down by at least two other women and then started dating Diana. DIana actually did like classical music--ballet has classical music and she did like Italian opera. They did ski together every year until the separation so yes, they did participate in the same activities. THe thing they did not have in common which killed the marriage was Mrs Parker Bowles and Charles' sense of entitlement.

[TLLK]

Diana's paternal grandmother was Cynthia Spencer, Countess Spencer. Originally she was Cynthia Hamilton.   
Did anyone from the Hamilton family inform Diana about the Royal Family?

Apparently the Countess Spencer was  a very loving and generous woman who was very involved in charity work. It's a shame that she died while her granddaughter was young as she might have been the wise counselor that Diana needed in those years.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

I was off when this thread took off so the thought of trying to hit all the subjects in one post has been a bit daunting. I think like a lot of stuff about her, theres a lot of grey in the answer. Also I tend to go by what the people did vs said, as between the press and people wanting to stay of some ppls good side, or to stick it to others, words alone can be unreliable.

There were plenty of family issues on Diana's side for not being "warmed up and ready to take the mound" so to speak in terms of joining the RF. Just yesterday I saw in an article about in 1991, about her 10 years in the RF, Jane was interviewed around the time of the marriage, presumably, and said  of Diana "she has no idea what shes getting herself in for".

Now IDK how much advice Jane gave her, she did stay at the grace and favor cottage she and Robert Fellows had at balmoral, both before and during the courtship.

But earlier than that, there was the lack of input by Frances with just weekend visits first in London and then scotland in the summers, she was outside the royal scene by then, idk if she just didnt think it was necessary to teach her, or of it was too painful to think about her past life, but it seems not much was done on that front.

While the romance Sarah had with Charles gave her some insight in handling the press, and as the Settlen tapes say, his sexual appitite, or lack thereof, should have been a red flag, but there was both a lot of big sister worship and rivalry between them. To answer one of the questions in the posts, Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles.

Aside from that, youd have thought shed have learned a lot from either Sarah or Jane about men and marriage, if not from their own, at least their friends, ppl they knew, etc. in girl talk.

Now it was said that Johhny didnt do much because of the stroke, now true it did limit him physically but he was very excited about the marriage and if it would happen, Diana's cousin Robert mentions in Story of a Princess that there was much excitement and talk about the budding romance and if it would lead to marriage, and also concern over the possible calling off of the marriage. While the family didnt prepare her from birth to marry Charles, I think they were pushing for it to happen, as her comments on the tapes mention of people pushing and people pulling her along. I think they were surprised with their good fortune, and they probably didnt expect it when she was little, hence the rubbish preparation, they probably figured she marry someone in the realm of Robert Fellows, not the most eligible man in england.

Ruth has been pretty well covered, so ill skip over her, as for Cynthia Spencer (who incidentally Jane is named after her as Jane is her middle name) Diana had said she gets her charitable nature from her, she even said she was guided by her in the spirit world, while that may be up for scientific debate, she did feel a connection to her, but she had endured a lot of verbal abuse from Jack Spencer so that by the time Diana would have been old enough to learn from her, she was pretty much not there.

So thats the family covered, kind of, while the knowledge of the royal family gets kind of lumped into the marriage difficulty, I think theres really two parts to it, navigating her new family and duties, and navigating her marriage as a wife, while they do intermix, as all families do.

I think Diana did not have if not knowledge, at least the understanding of what it would be like to marry into that family, in terms of the level of support she would get, or not get from them, or the amount of time that she would be separated from Charles.

Theres a lot more I wish to cover, but have to save that for another post. :flower:

[TLLK]

To answer one of the questions in the posts, Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles.

Thanks for the information as I had not realized that she'd dated some of Sarah's other ex-boyfriends.

[sandy]

I don't think she did. I never read that in any case. It is none of Diana's biographies and Diana never said it. She just went into detail about how Sarah got annoyed with her when she accompanied Charles to a picture gallery at Althorp. Diana had limited dating experience and she had her own circle of friends. I am very skeptical about this story.  Charles started paying attention to Diana when he saw her in the plowed field when ca. 1977. she had limited dating experience when she began dating Charles in 1980.
Double post auto-merged: January 16, 2017, 10:48:44 PM

I was off when this thread took off so the thought of trying to hit all the subjects in one post has been a bit daunting. I think like a lot of stuff about her, theres a lot of grey in the answer. Also I tend to go by what the people did vs said, as between the press and people wanting to stay of some ppls good side, or to stick it to others, words alone can be unreliable.

There were plenty of family issues on Diana's side for not being "warmed up and ready to take the mound" so to speak in terms of joining the RF. Just yesterday I saw in an article about in 1991, about her 10 years in the RF, Jane was interviewed around the time of the marriage, presumably, and said  of Diana "she has no idea what shes getting herself in for".

Now IDK how much advice Jane gave her, she did stay at the grace and favor cottage she and Robert Fellows had at balmoral, both before and during the courtship.

But earlier than that, there was the lack of input by Frances with just weekend visits first in London and then scotland in the summers, she was outside the royal scene by then, idk if she just didnt think it was necessary to teach her, or of it was too painful to think about her past life, but it seems not much was done on that front.

While the romance Sarah had with Charles gave her some insight in handling the press, and as the Settlen tapes say, his sexual appitite, or lack thereof, should have been a red flag, but there was both a lot of big sister worship and rivalry between them. To answer one of the questions in the posts, Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles.

Aside from that, youd have thought shed have learned a lot from either Sarah or Jane about men and marriage, if not from their own, at least their friends, ppl they knew, etc. in girl talk.

Now it was said that Johhny didnt do much because of the stroke, now true it did limit him physically but he was very excited about the marriage and if it would happen, Diana's cousin Robert mentions in Story of a Princess that there was much excitement and talk about the budding romance and if it would lead to marriage, and also concern over the possible calling off of the marriage. While the family didnt prepare her from birth to marry Charles, I think they were pushing for it to happen, as her comments on the tapes mention of people pushing and people pulling her along. I think they were surprised with their good fortune, and they probably didnt expect it when she was little, hence the rubbish preparation, they probably figured she marry someone in the realm of Robert Fellows, not the most eligible man in england.

Ruth has been pretty well covered, so ill skip over her, as for Cynthia Spencer (who incidentally Jane is named after her as Jane is her middle name) Diana had said she gets her charitable nature from her, she even said she was guided by her in the spirit world, while that may be up for scientific debate, she did feel a connection to her, but she had endured a lot of verbal abuse from Jack Spencer so that by the time Diana would have been old enough to learn from her, she was pretty much not there.

So thats the family covered, kind of, while the knowledge of the royal family gets kind of lumped into the marriage difficulty, I think theres really two parts to it, navigating her new family and duties, and navigating her marriage as a wife, while they do intermix, as all families do.

I think Diana did not have if not knowledge, at least the understanding of what it would be like to marry into that family, in terms of the level of support she would get, or not get from them, or the amount of time that she would be separated from Charles.

Theres a lot more I wish to cover, but have to save that for another post. :flower:

I don't think Sarah was really that interested in marrying Charles. If she had been she would not have made the indiscreet comment about him to the press. She said he was like a brother to her. I don't think it was a big romance. I think subconsciously she wanted out which is why she said those things to the press. Diana most likely was advised not to confirm or deny anything and she played the press very well (except when they tricked her into standing in front of the sun so her dress would be see through--though it was not something scandalous). Diana found her own circle of friends and did not rely on going for her sister's exes. Charles did initiate the courtship beginning at that weekend where he sat next to Diana and made a pass at her (Settlen, Morton tapes). She refused his offer to drive her back to London saying she would be rude to her host if she did. The family did want Diana to marry Prince Andrew which is why she was nicknamed "Duch."

Fellowes was loyal to the Queen so I doubt he "warned" Diana about the royals. Jane reportedly did not give her any real advice except she and her sister Sarah talked about the "face on the tea towels, too late to back out."

[royalanthropologist]

I find it so strange to date your sisters cast-offs. Seems like something out of a cheap telenovela, but again I am not a member of the aristocracy.

[sandy]

But there is no record of her doing this. Diana was 6 years younger than her sister Sarah and other than Charles, there is no record of her dating Sarah's "castoffs." Charles was not her "castoff". For one thing, Sarah really wanted to marry the Duke of Westminster and he dropped her for another woman, Diana had no chance of dating him. Charles was looking for a  woman of no experience and since Diana was 6 years younger than her sister and did not date much and had no past, she filled the requirements. None of the biographies of Diana had her dating her sister's castoffs. Diana's social circle was recorded by Morton and other writers and there is zilch mention of anybody being Sarah's castoff. And there are photos of her with her friends, none of them Sarah's castoffs. IMO this did not happen. In the old days, royals would marry someone even betrothed earlier to a sibling. FOr instance, After Prince Eddy passed on, Mary of Teck was courted by the future George V (Eddy's brother) and they got married. I don't think it "Strange" because Diana did not date her castoffs. And Charles was no Castoff.

[TLLK]

I find it so strange to date your sisters cast-offs. Seems like something out of a cheap telenovela, but again I am not a member of the aristocracy.

:hehe: Why  yes it does sound like a script from one! "Dos Hermanas y  sus novios."

[sandy]

But Diana did not date her castoffs.  Charles was not a castoff for one thing. I don't think Sarah and Charles were that serious, and perhaps not even intimate. She was avid to marry the DUke of Westminster, and her rejection by him caused her to get anorexia (eating disorders seem to run in the family). Harry could have married Cressida who was 1/2 sister of a woman William was interested in (Isabelle Calthorpe). It's a small world for aristos at times.
Double post auto-merged: January 17, 2017, 01:21:09 AM

Oddly, Charles was interested in the Duke of Westminster's sister (the same Duke of Westminster that Sarah wanted to marry). Small world

[Curryong]

^I don't think Diana dated any of her sister's exes either, except for Charles, but aristos and the like certainly inhabit a very small world. The pages of magazines like Tatler reflect that. People always wondered why Harry kept cordial relations with his ex girlfriends. It's undoubtedly because he's 100% guaranteed to bump into them at parties, polo and other social events afterwards. In that world people share relatives, go to the same schools, marry within the circle for the most part.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

So I popped by at work and was amazed at the ignorance displayed on this page of the threads, I was going to say I can post the source for it, but if I have to im gonna be pi$$ed off to the extreme at the lack of respect for my knowledge about Diana which easily matches ANYONE on this forum. So as my man Jules says in Pulp Fiction "Oh, well allow me to retort!"

So to recap, heres what i said "Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles."

I don't think she did. I never read that in any case. It is none of Diana's biographies and Diana never said it. She just went into detail about how Sarah got annoyed with her when she accompanied Charles to a picture gallery at Althorp. Diana had limited dating experience and she had her own circle of friends. I am very skeptical about this story.  Charles started paying attention to Diana when he saw her in the plowed field when ca. 1977. she had limited dating experience when she began dating Charles in 1980.
Double post auto-merged: January 16, 2017, 10:48:44 PM

I was off when this thread took off so the thought of trying to hit all the subjects in one post has been a bit daunting. I think like a lot of stuff about her, theres a lot of grey in the answer. Also I tend to go by what the people did vs said, as between the press and people wanting to stay of some ppls good side, or to stick it to others, words alone can be unreliable.

There were plenty of family issues on Diana's side for not being "warmed up and ready to take the mound" so to speak in terms of joining the RF. Just yesterday I saw in an article about in 1991, about her 10 years in the RF, Jane was interviewed around the time of the marriage, presumably, and said  of Diana "she has no idea what shes getting herself in for".

Now IDK how much advice Jane gave her, she did stay at the grace and favor cottage she and Robert Fellows had at balmoral, both before and during the courtship.

But earlier than that, there was the lack of input by Frances with just weekend visits first in London and then scotland in the summers, she was outside the royal scene by then, idk if she just didnt think it was necessary to teach her, or of it was too painful to think about her past life, but it seems not much was done on that front.

While the romance Sarah had with Charles gave her some insight in handling the press, and as the Settlen tapes say, his sexual appitite, or lack thereof, should have been a red flag, but there was both a lot of big sister worship and rivalry between them. To answer one of the questions in the posts, Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles.

Aside from that, youd have thought shed have learned a lot from either Sarah or Jane about men and marriage, if not from their own, at least their friends, ppl they knew, etc. in girl talk.

Now it was said that Johhny didnt do much because of the stroke, now true it did limit him physically but he was very excited about the marriage and if it would happen, Diana's cousin Robert mentions in Story of a Princess that there was much excitement and talk about the budding romance and if it would lead to marriage, and also concern over the possible calling off of the marriage. While the family didnt prepare her from birth to marry Charles, I think they were pushing for it to happen, as her comments on the tapes mention of people pushing and people pulling her along. I think they were surprised with their good fortune, and they probably didnt expect it when she was little, hence the rubbish preparation, they probably figured she marry someone in the realm of Robert Fellows, not the most eligible man in england.

Ruth has been pretty well covered, so ill skip over her, as for Cynthia Spencer (who incidentally Jane is named after her as Jane is her middle name) Diana had said she gets her charitable nature from her, she even said she was guided by her in the spirit world, while that may be up for scientific debate, she did feel a connection to her, but she had endured a lot of verbal abuse from Jack Spencer so that by the time Diana would have been old enough to learn from her, she was pretty much not there.

So thats the family covered, kind of, while the knowledge of the royal family gets kind of lumped into the marriage difficulty, I think theres really two parts to it, navigating her new family and duties, and navigating her marriage as a wife, while they do intermix, as all families do.

I think Diana did not have if not knowledge, at least the understanding of what it would be like to marry into that family, in terms of the level of support she would get, or not get from them, or the amount of time that she would be separated from Charles.

Theres a lot more I wish to cover, but have to save that for another post. :flower:

I don't think Sarah was really that interested in marrying Charles. If she had been she would not have made the indiscreet comment about him to the press. She said he was like a brother to her. I don't think it was a big romance. I think subconsciously she wanted out which is why she said those things to the press. Diana most likely was advised not to confirm or deny anything and she played the press very well (except when they tricked her into standing in front of the sun so her dress would be see through--though it was not something scandalous). Diana found her own circle of friends and did not rely on going for her sister's exes. Charles did initiate the courtship beginning at that weekend where he sat next to Diana and made a pass at her (Settlen, Morton tapes). She refused his offer to drive her back to London saying she would be rude to her host if she did. The family did want Diana to marry Prince Andrew which is why she was nicknamed "Duch."

Fellowes was loyal to the Queen so I doubt he "warned" Diana about the royals. Jane reportedly did not give her any real advice except she and her sister Sarah talked about the "face on the tea towels, too late to back out."

But there is no record of her doing this. Diana was 6 years younger than her sister Sarah and other than Charles, there is no record of her dating Sarah's "castoffs." Charles was not her "castoff". For one thing, Sarah really wanted to marry the Duke of Westminster and he dropped her for another woman, Diana had no chance of dating him. Charles was looking for a  woman of no experience and since Diana was 6 years younger than her sister and did not date much and had no past, she filled the requirements. None of the biographies of Diana had her dating her sister's castoffs. Diana's social circle was recorded by Morton and other writers and there is zilch mention of anybody being Sarah's castoff. And there are photos of her with her friends, none of them Sarah's castoffs. IMO this did not happen. In the old days, royals would marry someone even betrothed earlier to a sibling. FOr instance, After Prince Eddy passed on, Mary of Teck was courted by the future George V (Eddy's brother) and they got married. I don't think it "Strange" because Diana did not date her castoffs. And Charles was no Castoff.

Its important as some of you @sandy havent read it, as you keep refuting something which i DIDNT say. Notice I said she would TRY...with no success except for Charles...thats important as I show you THE SOURCE for it....HER OWN WORDS!!!!!!

https://books.google.ca/books?id=5pPyJZ-ANd4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=princess+diana&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2it6pq8jRAhXKPCYKHUL_B4QQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=princess%20diana&f=false

Despite being "skeptical" and saying its not in any of her biographies...its in the mack daddy of Biographies...Diana: Her True Story in Her Own Words By Andrew Morton...not some Tatler mag, or whatever you guys think doesnt pass for a valid source.

So please all of you with me, turn to page 40 please and thankies......"I had crushes, serious crushes on all sorts of people especially my sisters boyfriends. If they ever got chucked out from that department I used to try my way. I felt so sorry for them because they were so nice. That was purely it. Anyway, that was a dead miss."
(bold added by me)
What do we have here...Diana's own words, notice neither of us said she SUCCEEDED in it, only that she tried. I also had read something similar about her time living with Sarah as well, but haven't had the time to find it yet.

Bur wait, it gets better, you say that  "Jane reportedly did not give her any real advice except she and her sister Sarah talked about the "face on the tea towels, too late to back out.""

https://princessdianabookboutique.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/image10.jpeg

lets see what Jane said in the first couple of paragraphs....."She doesnt know what shes getting into" hmmmm is there tea towels in there, nope that was later on near the wedding day but shortly after accepting the proposal she said this.

As for her nickname....part of my profile name...oh, I wouldnt know where that came from would I? lets go to page 117 of the linked above morton book....It was Peter Shand-Kydd that gave the nickname, he called Charles Spencer the admiral after he let him wear his cap sailing and called Diana the Dutchess,a nickname her friends still use (taken from the book). It was NOT because she was supposed to marry Prince Andrew, although on page 19 of Diana:The Porrait: Anniversary Edition, https://books.google.ca/books?id=pa31lwPwTI4C&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=diana+aids+handshake&source=bl&ots=tigC6TFizS&sig=24U8fM-ncMxRl9U9Jaos9S9JHfc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn4o_Do9HMAhVM1oMKHQDFAKkQ6AEIUjAM#v=onepage&q&f=false
she does mention that she would like to marry Prince Andrew as a young schoolgirl.


Im really angry that ive had to go to this extent to highlight that I know what the im talking about. Everyone else spouts whatever garbage they want but little ol me, naw hes a stoopid goof that couldnt possibly know anything. Congrats, youve made me so sick and tired of this forum, it was truly a comfort in a rough patch, and im grateful for that, but this board is just an echo chamber, with dogmatic people that want to with plugged ears shout ignorance at the top of their lungs, well im done trying to get people to see that they can still look at the whole story, and celebrate Diana, in spite of and because of her human failings. Theres a few of you I may PM once in awhile, you know who you are, other than that, its a wrap.


[admin]Edited inappropriate content[/admin]

[royalanthropologist]

I find it so strange to date your sisters cast-offs. Seems like something out of a cheap telenovela, but again I am not a member of the aristocracy.

:hehe: Why  yes it does sound like a script from one! "Dos Hermanas y  sus novios."

Quote of 2017. I am laughing so hard, I think I will soon be escorted from the office premises.  :lol:

[Trudie]

So I popped by at work and was amazed at the ignorance displayed on this page of the threads, I was going to say I can post the source for it, but if I have to im gonna be pi$$ed off to the extreme at the lack of respect for my knowledge about Diana which easily matches ANYONE on this forum. So as my man Jules says in Pulp Fiction "Oh, well allow me to retort!"

So to recap, heres what i said "Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles."

I don't think she did. I never read that in any case. It is none of Diana's biographies and Diana never said it. She just went into detail about how Sarah got annoyed with her when she accompanied Charles to a picture gallery at Althorp. Diana had limited dating experience and she had her own circle of friends. I am very skeptical about this story.  Charles started paying attention to Diana when he saw her in the plowed field when ca. 1977. she had limited dating experience when she began dating Charles in 1980.
Double post auto-merged: January 16, 2017, 10:48:44 PM

I was off when this thread took off so the thought of trying to hit all the subjects in one post has been a bit daunting. I think like a lot of stuff about her, theres a lot of grey in the answer. Also I tend to go by what the people did vs said, as between the press and people wanting to stay of some ppls good side, or to stick it to others, words alone can be unreliable.

There were plenty of family issues on Diana's side for not being "warmed up and ready to take the mound" so to speak in terms of joining the RF. Just yesterday I saw in an article about in 1991, about her 10 years in the RF, Jane was interviewed around the time of the marriage, presumably, and said  of Diana "she has no idea what shes getting herself in for".

Now IDK how much advice Jane gave her, she did stay at the grace and favor cottage she and Robert Fellows had at balmoral, both before and during the courtship.

But earlier than that, there was the lack of input by Frances with just weekend visits first in London and then scotland in the summers, she was outside the royal scene by then, idk if she just didnt think it was necessary to teach her, or of it was too painful to think about her past life, but it seems not much was done on that front.

While the romance Sarah had with Charles gave her some insight in handling the press, and as the Settlen tapes say, his sexual appitite, or lack thereof, should have been a red flag, but there was both a lot of big sister worship and rivalry between them. To answer one of the questions in the posts, Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles.

Aside from that, youd have thought shed have learned a lot from either Sarah or Jane about men and marriage, if not from their own, at least their friends, ppl they knew, etc. in girl talk.

Now it was said that Johhny didnt do much because of the stroke, now true it did limit him physically but he was very excited about the marriage and if it would happen, Diana's cousin Robert mentions in Story of a Princess that there was much excitement and talk about the budding romance and if it would lead to marriage, and also concern over the possible calling off of the marriage. While the family didnt prepare her from birth to marry Charles, I think they were pushing for it to happen, as her comments on the tapes mention of people pushing and people pulling her along. I think they were surprised with their good fortune, and they probably didnt expect it when she was little, hence the rubbish preparation, they probably figured she marry someone in the realm of Robert Fellows, not the most eligible man in england.

Ruth has been pretty well covered, so ill skip over her, as for Cynthia Spencer (who incidentally Jane is named after her as Jane is her middle name) Diana had said she gets her charitable nature from her, she even said she was guided by her in the spirit world, while that may be up for scientific debate, she did feel a connection to her, but she had endured a lot of verbal abuse from Jack Spencer so that by the time Diana would have been old enough to learn from her, she was pretty much not there.

So thats the family covered, kind of, while the knowledge of the royal family gets kind of lumped into the marriage difficulty, I think theres really two parts to it, navigating her new family and duties, and navigating her marriage as a wife, while they do intermix, as all families do.

I think Diana did not have if not knowledge, at least the understanding of what it would be like to marry into that family, in terms of the level of support she would get, or not get from them, or the amount of time that she would be separated from Charles.

Theres a lot more I wish to cover, but have to save that for another post. :flower:

I don't think Sarah was really that interested in marrying Charles. If she had been she would not have made the indiscreet comment about him to the press. She said he was like a brother to her. I don't think it was a big romance. I think subconsciously she wanted out which is why she said those things to the press. Diana most likely was advised not to confirm or deny anything and she played the press very well (except when they tricked her into standing in front of the sun so her dress would be see through--though it was not something scandalous). Diana found her own circle of friends and did not rely on going for her sister's exes. Charles did initiate the courtship beginning at that weekend where he sat next to Diana and made a pass at her (Settlen, Morton tapes). She refused his offer to drive her back to London saying she would be rude to her host if she did. The family did want Diana to marry Prince Andrew which is why she was nicknamed "Duch."

Fellowes was loyal to the Queen so I doubt he "warned" Diana about the royals. Jane reportedly did not give her any real advice except she and her sister Sarah talked about the "face on the tea towels, too late to back out."

But there is no record of her doing this. Diana was 6 years younger than her sister Sarah and other than Charles, there is no record of her dating Sarah's "castoffs." Charles was not her "castoff". For one thing, Sarah really wanted to marry the Duke of Westminster and he dropped her for another woman, Diana had no chance of dating him. Charles was looking for a  woman of no experience and since Diana was 6 years younger than her sister and did not date much and had no past, she filled the requirements. None of the biographies of Diana had her dating her sister's castoffs. Diana's social circle was recorded by Morton and other writers and there is zilch mention of anybody being Sarah's castoff. And there are photos of her with her friends, none of them Sarah's castoffs. IMO this did not happen. In the old days, royals would marry someone even betrothed earlier to a sibling. FOr instance, After Prince Eddy passed on, Mary of Teck was courted by the future George V (Eddy's brother) and they got married. I don't think it "Strange" because Diana did not date her castoffs. And Charles was no Castoff.

Its important as some of you @sandy havent read it, as you keep refuting something which i DIDNT say. Notice I said she would TRY...with no success except for Charles...thats important as I show you THE SOURCE for it....HER OWN FUC%IN WORDS!!!!!!

https://books.google.ca/books?id=5pPyJZ-ANd4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=princess+diana&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2it6pq8jRAhXKPCYKHUL_B4QQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=princess%20diana&f=false

Despite being "skeptical" and saying its not in any of her biographies...its in the mack daddy of Biographies...Diana: Her True Story in Her Own Words By Andrew Morton...not some Tatler mag, or whatever you guys think doesnt pass for a valid source.

So please all of you with me, turn to page 40 please and thankies......"I had crushes, serious crushes on all sorts of people especially my sisters boyfriends. If they ever got chucked out from that department I used to try my way. I felt so sorry for them because they were so nice. That was purely it. Anyway, that was a dead miss."
(bold added by me)
What do we have here...Diana's own words, notice neither of us said she SUCCEEDED in it, only that she tried. I also had read something similar about her time living with Sarah as well, but haven't had the time to find it yet.

Bur wait, it gets better, you say that  "Jane reportedly did not give her any real advice except she and her sister Sarah talked about the "face on the tea towels, too late to back out.""

https://princessdianabookboutique.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/image10.jpeg

lets see what Jane said in the first couple of paragraphs....."She doesnt know what shes getting into" hmmmm is there tea towels in there, nope that was later on near the wedding day but shortly after accepting the proposal she said this.

As for her nickname....part of my profile name...oh, I wouldnt know where that came from would I? lets go to page 117 of the linked above morton book....It was Peter Shand-Kydd that gave the nickname, he called Charles Spencer the admiral after he let him wear his cap sailing and called Diana the Dutchess,a nickname her friends still use (taken from the book). It was NOT because she was supposed to marry Prince Andrew, although on page 19 of Diana:The Porrait: Anniversary Edition, https://books.google.ca/books?id=pa31lwPwTI4C&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=diana+aids+handshake&source=bl&ots=tigC6TFizS&sig=24U8fM-ncMxRl9U9Jaos9S9JHfc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn4o_Do9HMAhVM1oMKHQDFAKkQ6AEIUjAM#v=onepage&q&f=false
she does mention that she would like to marry Prince Andrew as a young schoolgirl.

So many of us have tried to understand, sympathize, or just plane grin and bear your attitude, but Im so tired of you sandy, doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on stupidity and while constantly undermining the fact that I might know what the hell im talking about and spouting inaccuracies at nearly every turn. If you keep this up itll be only you and Trudie talking back and forth, youre driving away anyone that doesnt agree 100 percent with your view, which would be fine if you were right all the time, but ive lost count how many times in threads ive been able to either contradict what youre saying with facts or being able to support facts ive mentioned that you dispute with sources, youre as bad as Eri for goodness sakes, at least with her theres the excuse of being a Camilla fan so she might not be as up on Diana.

Im really angry that ive had to go to this extent to highlight that I know what the fu&k im talking about. Everyone else spouts whatever garbage they want but little ol me, naw hes a stoopid goof that couldnt possibly know anything. Congrats, youve made me so sick and tired of this forum, it was truly a comfort in a rough patch, and im grateful for that, but this board is just an echo chamber, with dogmatic people that want to with plugged ears shout ignorance at the top of their lungs, well im done trying to get people to see that they can still look at the whole story, and celebrate Diana, in spite of and because of her human failings. Theres a few of you I may PM once in awhile, you know who you are, other than that, its a wrap.

Apparently Duch you are the ultimate authority on all things Diana especially since you were lucky enough to meet her for all of 10 seconds. This is a forum not everyone is going to agree especially with facts and some of those facts have been airbrushed from the internet which didn't exist in the 80's but some of us have saved memorabilia from that time and refer to it often. I do take exception to your passive aggressive mention of me in your post but I suppose Sandy and I sharing some of the same memories of the time would be off putting.

[sandy]

So I popped by at work and was amazed at the ignorance displayed on this page of the threads, I was going to say I can post the source for it, but if I have to im gonna be pi$$ed off to the extreme at the lack of respect for my knowledge about Diana which easily matches ANYONE on this forum. So as my man Jules says in Pulp Fiction "Oh, well allow me to retort!"

So to recap, heres what i said "Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles."

I don't think she did. I never read that in any case. It is none of Diana's biographies and Diana never said it. She just went into detail about how Sarah got annoyed with her when she accompanied Charles to a picture gallery at Althorp. Diana had limited dating experience and she had her own circle of friends. I am very skeptical about this story.  Charles started paying attention to Diana when he saw her in the plowed field when ca. 1977. she had limited dating experience when she began dating Charles in 1980.
Double post auto-merged: January 16, 2017, 10:48:44 PM

I was off when this thread took off so the thought of trying to hit all the subjects in one post has been a bit daunting. I think like a lot of stuff about her, theres a lot of grey in the answer. Also I tend to go by what the people did vs said, as between the press and people wanting to stay of some ppls good side, or to stick it to others, words alone can be unreliable.

There were plenty of family issues on Diana's side for not being "warmed up and ready to take the mound" so to speak in terms of joining the RF. Just yesterday I saw in an article about in 1991, about her 10 years in the RF, Jane was interviewed around the time of the marriage, presumably, and said  of Diana "she has no idea what shes getting herself in for".

Now IDK how much advice Jane gave her, she did stay at the grace and favor cottage she and Robert Fellows had at balmoral, both before and during the courtship.

But earlier than that, there was the lack of input by Frances with just weekend visits first in London and then scotland in the summers, she was outside the royal scene by then, idk if she just didnt think it was necessary to teach her, or of it was too painful to think about her past life, but it seems not much was done on that front.

While the romance Sarah had with Charles gave her some insight in handling the press, and as the Settlen tapes say, his sexual appitite, or lack thereof, should have been a red flag, but there was both a lot of big sister worship and rivalry between them. To answer one of the questions in the posts, Diana would as she said frequently try and date the guys that Sarah had broken up with, mostly with no success,except for Charles.

Aside from that, youd have thought shed have learned a lot from either Sarah or Jane about men and marriage, if not from their own, at least their friends, ppl they knew, etc. in girl talk.

Now it was said that Johhny didnt do much because of the stroke, now true it did limit him physically but he was very excited about the marriage and if it would happen, Diana's cousin Robert mentions in Story of a Princess that there was much excitement and talk about the budding romance and if it would lead to marriage, and also concern over the possible calling off of the marriage. While the family didnt prepare her from birth to marry Charles, I think they were pushing for it to happen, as her comments on the tapes mention of people pushing and people pulling her along. I think they were surprised with their good fortune, and they probably didnt expect it when she was little, hence the rubbish preparation, they probably figured she marry someone in the realm of Robert Fellows, not the most eligible man in england.

Ruth has been pretty well covered, so ill skip over her, as for Cynthia Spencer (who incidentally Jane is named after her as Jane is her middle name) Diana had said she gets her charitable nature from her, she even said she was guided by her in the spirit world, while that may be up for scientific debate, she did feel a connection to her, but she had endured a lot of verbal abuse from Jack Spencer so that by the time Diana would have been old enough to learn from her, she was pretty much not there.

So thats the family covered, kind of, while the knowledge of the royal family gets kind of lumped into the marriage difficulty, I think theres really two parts to it, navigating her new family and duties, and navigating her marriage as a wife, while they do intermix, as all families do.

I think Diana did not have if not knowledge, at least the understanding of what it would be like to marry into that family, in terms of the level of support she would get, or not get from them, or the amount of time that she would be separated from Charles.

Theres a lot more I wish to cover, but have to save that for another post. :flower:

I don't think Sarah was really that interested in marrying Charles. If she had been she would not have made the indiscreet comment about him to the press. She said he was like a brother to her. I don't think it was a big romance. I think subconsciously she wanted out which is why she said those things to the press. Diana most likely was advised not to confirm or deny anything and she played the press very well (except when they tricked her into standing in front of the sun so her dress would be see through--though it was not something scandalous). Diana found her own circle of friends and did not rely on going for her sister's exes. Charles did initiate the courtship beginning at that weekend where he sat next to Diana and made a pass at her (Settlen, Morton tapes). She refused his offer to drive her back to London saying she would be rude to her host if she did. The family did want Diana to marry Prince Andrew which is why she was nicknamed "Duch."

Fellowes was loyal to the Queen so I doubt he "warned" Diana about the royals. Jane reportedly did not give her any real advice except she and her sister Sarah talked about the "face on the tea towels, too late to back out."

But there is no record of her doing this. Diana was 6 years younger than her sister Sarah and other than Charles, there is no record of her dating Sarah's "castoffs." Charles was not her "castoff". For one thing, Sarah really wanted to marry the Duke of Westminster and he dropped her for another woman, Diana had no chance of dating him. Charles was looking for a  woman of no experience and since Diana was 6 years younger than her sister and did not date much and had no past, she filled the requirements. None of the biographies of Diana had her dating her sister's castoffs. Diana's social circle was recorded by Morton and other writers and there is zilch mention of anybody being Sarah's castoff. And there are photos of her with her friends, none of them Sarah's castoffs. IMO this did not happen. In the old days, royals would marry someone even betrothed earlier to a sibling. FOr instance, After Prince Eddy passed on, Mary of Teck was courted by the future George V (Eddy's brother) and they got married. I don't think it "Strange" because Diana did not date her castoffs. And Charles was no Castoff.

Its important as some of you @sandy havent read it, as you keep refuting something which i DIDNT say. Notice I said she would TRY...with no success except for Charles...thats important as I show you THE SOURCE for it....HER OWN FUC%IN WORDS!!!!!!

https://books.google.ca/books?id=5pPyJZ-ANd4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=princess+diana&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2it6pq8jRAhXKPCYKHUL_B4QQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=princess%20diana&f=false

Despite being "skeptical" and saying its not in any of her biographies...its in the mack daddy of Biographies...Diana: Her True Story in Her Own Words By Andrew Morton...not some Tatler mag, or whatever you guys think doesnt pass for a valid source.

So please all of you with me, turn to page 40 please and thankies......"I had crushes, serious crushes on all sorts of people especially my sisters boyfriends. If they ever got chucked out from that department I used to try my way. I felt so sorry for them because they were so nice. That was purely it. Anyway, that was a dead miss."
(bold added by me)
What do we have here...Diana's own words, notice neither of us said she SUCCEEDED in it, only that she tried. I also had read something similar about her time living with Sarah as well, but haven't had the time to find it yet.

Bur wait, it gets better, you say that  "Jane reportedly did not give her any real advice except she and her sister Sarah talked about the "face on the tea towels, too late to back out.""

https://princessdianabookboutique.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/image10.jpeg

lets see what Jane said in the first couple of paragraphs....."She doesnt know what shes getting into" hmmmm is there tea towels in there, nope that was later on near the wedding day but shortly after accepting the proposal she said this.

As for her nickname....part of my profile name...oh, I wouldnt know where that came from would I? lets go to page 117 of the linked above morton book....It was Peter Shand-Kydd that gave the nickname, he called Charles Spencer the admiral after he let him wear his cap sailing and called Diana the Dutchess,a nickname her friends still use (taken from the book). It was NOT because she was supposed to marry Prince Andrew, although on page 19 of Diana:The Porrait: Anniversary Edition, https://books.google.ca/books?id=pa31lwPwTI4C&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=diana+aids+handshake&source=bl&ots=tigC6TFizS&sig=24U8fM-ncMxRl9U9Jaos9S9JHfc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn4o_Do9HMAhVM1oMKHQDFAKkQ6AEIUjAM#v=onepage&q&f=false
she does mention that she would like to marry Prince Andrew as a young schoolgirl.

So many of us have tried to understand, sympathize, or just plane grin and bear your attitude, but Im so tired of you sandy, doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on stupidity and while constantly undermining the fact that I might know what the hell im talking about and spouting inaccuracies at nearly every turn. If you keep this up itll be only you and Trudie talking back and forth, youre driving away anyone that doesnt agree 100 percent with your view, which would be fine if you were right all the time, but ive lost count how many times in threads ive been able to either contradict what youre saying with facts or being able to support facts ive mentioned that you dispute with sources, youre as bad as Eri for goodness sakes, at least with her theres the excuse of being a Camilla fan so she might not be as up on Diana.

Im really angry that ive had to go to this extent to highlight that I know what the fu&k im talking about. Everyone else spouts whatever garbage they want but little ol me, naw hes a stoopid goof that couldnt possibly know anything. Congrats, youve made me so sick and tired of this forum, it was truly a comfort in a rough patch, and im grateful for that, but this board is just an echo chamber, with dogmatic people that want to with plugged ears shout ignorance at the top of their lungs, well im done trying to get people to see that they can still look at the whole story, and celebrate Diana, in spite of and because of her human failings. Theres a few of you I may PM once in awhile, you know who you are, other than that, its a wrap.

I found no record of Diana ever saying she dated her sister's exes. She had her own circle of friends and social life. She did not depend on her sister. At the time Diana was in her late teens, Sarah was dating her future husband. They cancelled one wedding date and finally married in 1978.  So there were not many exes to go around. Charles courted Diana and he instigated the courtship not the other way around.  What is in Morton's book is Diana's meeting Charles when he was dating her sister. ANd the story of Diana escorting Charles around the Althorp Gallery There is a lot of material on this and Morton does not talk about Diana poaching Sarah's exes. She also was not that active dating and part of the reason she was chosen was because she had "no past." Diana was quite young so she would have had to date her older sister's boyfriends when she was underage which would have been taboo.

[TLLK]

@Duch_Luver_4ever -Thank you for taking the time to share the quotations from Diana and her family members. It's good to have the information from the individual(s) themselves.

[sandy]

Sarah is probably very happy she did not marry Prince Charles. She's still married after all these years.

[Trudie]

I find it so strange to date your sisters cast-offs. Seems like something out of a cheap telenovela, but again I am not a member of the aristocracy.

:hehe: Why  yes it does sound like a script from one! "Dos Hermanas y  sus novios."

Quote of 2017. I am laughing so hard, I think I will soon be escorted from the office premises.  :lol:

What I find hilarious about this whole Diana dating her sisters cast offs is Diana was in an all girls boarding school how could she possibly date and left there at 16 then went to finishing school in Switzerland again no boys to meet and landed in London in her own flat with three female roomates while she worked all the time and started dating Charles her first and only male suitor? that was well documented from those who knew and employed her at the time.

[TLLK]

I find it so strange to date your sisters cast-offs. Seems like something out of a cheap telenovela, but again I am not a member of the aristocracy.

:hehe: Why  yes it does sound like a script from one! "Dos Hermanas y  sus novios."

Quote of 2017. I am laughing so hard, I think I will soon be escorted from the office premises.  :lol:

Ole!!! :D

[amabel]

She may have said something like that to Emphasise her complicated relationship with Sarah but I don't believe she dated any of Sarah's exes apart from Charles.  Maybe she flirted with them.. while they would have been older they were probably In that "circle" of upper class people who were always together. But I'm sure if she had actually been goingout with Sarah's ex boyfriends, the Press would have mentioned this when her very mild "dating life" was a story, when she and Charles were engaged.. as in "her romances include... X and Y who also used to go out with her sister Sarah"
So I don't believe she did date Sarah's boyfriends

[sandy]

She actually told Morton she felt sorry for the castoffs of Sarah but did not say she dated them. And certainly it would have come up in Diana's biographies or in articles about Diana. It was more teenage fantasy than reality --Charles was the only ex of Sarah's to actually date Diana. She was underage when Sarah dated them in any case. Sarah had a rather tumultuous relationship with her future husband and postponed the wedding once but they finally tied the knot before Charles started dating Diana.

[TLLK]

She may have said something like that to Emphasise her complicated relationship with Sarah but I don't believe she dated any of Sarah's exes apart from Charles.  Maybe she flirted with them.. while they would have been older they were probably In that "circle" of upper class people who were always together. But I'm sure if she had actually been goingout with Sarah's ex boyfriends, the Press would have mentioned this when her very mild "dating life" was a story, when she and Charles were engaged.. as in "her romances include... X and Y who also used to go out with her sister Sarah"
So I don't believe she did date Sarah's boyfriends

Good to see you here @amabel.