Queen Mother Biography/Wallis Simpson, etc.

[drezzle]

Here's a couple posts by Lucy and Fawbert from about a year ago.   :)

Title: Re: Camilla's popularity....eh?....the usual ranting again...
Post by: Lucy on November 06, 2008, 03:07:41 PM
I have a Royal bio on the QM that says Geroge VI had an ongoing affair with Phyllis Monckton after Elizabeth got so fat.
The Queen Mother by
Penelope Mortimer
Paperback: 320 pages
Publisher: Andre Deutsch; Revised edition (November 1, 1995)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0233989722
ISBN-13: 978-0233989723

Review excerpt:

From Library Journal
Mortimer created a stir with the previous edition of this work, entitled Queen Elizabeth: A Portrait of the Queen Mother (St. Martin's, 1986), in which she suggested that the Queen Mum was not the paragon she appeared. Although not the first person to suggest that the Queen Mother was capable of vindictiveness (see, for instance, Michael Thorton's Royal Feud: The Dark Side of the Love Story of the Century, 1985), Mortimer has turned a skeptical eye on the entire life of everyone's favorite royal. She makes it clear with her new subtitle that this is not a typical (i.e., flattering) biography, but she never sinks to tabloid level either. Her book is well written, intelligent, enlightening, and entertaining.

Even those who liked the QM have not really found any fault in this book....Charles didn't complain...
I bet Camilla knows all about these things.....
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Title: Re: Camilla's popularity....eh?....the usual ranting again...
Post by: fawbert on November 09, 2008, 01:47:34 PM
Quote from: Lucy on November 06, 2008, 03:07:41 PM
I have a Royal bio on the QM that says Geroge VI had an ongoing affair with Phyllis Monckton after Elizabeth got so fat.

I thought that Phyllis was introduced to the young Bertie after the Great War by his equerry Louis Greig in order that she might take his virginity.  After that it was bye bye.

[Lucy]

Thanks VERY much for finding those details, Drezzle....so many books, soooo many authors. :thankyou: :yesss:

I think it's in today's Guardian that the Shawcross book is again reviewed....and it shatters the image of a 'caring' QM,  even by Eleonore Roosevelt. ;)

One reason the QM so adamantly crucified Marion Crawford was her blatant honesty.....nothing but praises for the Yorks.....but the devil was in the details....revealing that the QM was brought her brekkies on a tray at about 11 AM....she and Bertie threw and attended endless parties...as did their circle of friends...but the illusion made the QM look less than energetic. IYKWIM

[drezzle]

Speaking of sooo many books, where did the idea get started that Lilibet and Margaret were from artificial insemination?  Although they look alike, I can't see the resemblance to any past royal and neither one looked like either of their parents. 

[Hale]

I bought the QM authorized biography today, when I have finished reading The Royal Feud by Michael Thornton, then I shall begin the task of reading this one.  You should see the size of it, seeing is believing.

Meanwhile, I thought this article maybe of interest:
Revealed, the other woman in the QM's marriage

Beaton believed that the chosen lady was the long-legged West End revue actress Phyllis Monkman, almost four years Bertie's senior, with whom he was alleged to have dined privately in rooms in Half Moon Street, Mayfair.

But some months before that happened, Bertie had lost his virginity at the age of 22 to an unnamed girl in Paris, with whom he had spent the night when he ought to have been staying with the British Ambassador.

[lilibet80]

Speaking of sooo many books, where did the idea get started that Lilibet and Margaret were from artificial insemination?  Although they look alike, I can't see the resemblance to any past royal and neither one looked like either of their parents. 

Lilibet looks very much like her grandmother, Queen Mary and Princess Margaret is a Bowes-Lyon.  She looks just like Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, granddaughter of Michael Bowes-Lyon, the QM's brother.  I don't know where the idea of the artificial insemination came from, maybe it is true, maybe it is not.  It is highly doubtful that we will ever know the truth.

[Lucy]

I bought the QM authorized biography today, when I have finished reading The Royal Feud by Michael Thornton, then I shall begin the task of reading this one.  You should see the size of it, seeing in believing.

Meanwhile, I thought this article maybe of interest:
Revealed, the other woman in the QM's marriage

Beaton believed that the chosen lady was the long-legged West End revue actress Phyllis Monkman, almost four years Bertie's senior, with whom he was alleged to have dined privately in rooms in Half Moon Street, Mayfair.

But some months before that happened, Bertie had lost his virginity at the age of 22 to an unnamed girl in Paris, with whom he had spent the night when he ought to have been staying with the British Ambassador.

Thanks heaps for these details, Hale....He was in love with Phyllis from all accounts but had to play house with his wife for the Monarchy...he understood Edward VIII better than most people ever dreamed. His family would not countenemce him marrying an actreess.

Since Edward VIII wasn't 'heir conditioned' as Wallis noted, it's quite possible that Bertie needed AI to help his wife conceive......I have always thought that the Queen resembled her father to some degree...she and Margaret being both very diminuative like their parents, share that familial trait as well as the English rose colouring.
Many thanks Lilibet!! Must look for pictures!

[lilibet80]

"One reason the QM so adamantly crucified Marion Crawford was her blatant honesty.....nothing but praises for the Yorks.....but the devil was in the details....revealing that the QM was brought her brekkies on a tray at about 11 AM....she and Bertie threw and attended endless parties...as did their circle of friends...but the illusion made the QM look less than energetic. IYKWIM."

I have every word in every book that Crawfie wrote.  Please cite the reference as to the QM being brought her breakfast on a tray at about 11 A.M. and throwing endless parties.  I think this is more from Penelope Mortimer, but I may be wrong.

[Hale]

lilibet80. what does IYKWIM mean?

[Mike]

lilibet80. what does IYKWIM mean?

Hi Hale,

If I can butt in here, I think it's "if you know what I mean."   :happy:

[Hale]

 :thankyou:  Mike.  :P

[lilibet80]

Thanks VERY much for finding those details, Drezzle....so many books, soooo many authors. :thankyou: :yesss:

I think it's in today's Guardian that the Shawcross book is again reviewed....and it shatters the image of a 'caring' QM,  even by Eleonore Roosevelt. ;)

One reason the QM so adamantly crucified Marion Crawford was her blatant honesty.....nothing but praises for the Yorks.....but the devil was in the details....revealing that the QM was brought her brekkies on a tray at about 11 AM....she and Bertie threw and attended endless parties...as did their circle of friends...but the illusion made the QM look less than energetic. IYKWIM

lilibet80. what does IYKWIM mean?

I have not got the slightest idea.  This was in answer to a post by Lucy #203 above.  I asked her to cite any reference by Crawfie that the QM had her breakfast at 11:00. etc.

[lilibet80]

As a matter of fact, Crawfie always said that the two princesses played in their mother's room after breakfast and spent time with her and the King until it was time to go to the schoolroom.  They met up again at 11:00 for elevenses together, had lunch together and tea together.  Many society ladies have their breakfast in bed, then do their telephoning, thank you note writing and bathe and dress before coming downstairs at around 11 o'clock.  Can't the QM do anything right?

[Lucy]

The Little Princesses, first edition: pages 87 and 88:

The King spent the morning in his study. At one-fifteen the two little girls lunched with thier parents if they were home. In the afternoon there would be come sort of function etc. In the evenings there was always something doing. Their Majesties would have to attend a receotion, command performance or first night.
The Queen had her dressmakers. From twelve to one she would meet the ambassadors' wives. In the afternoon the Queen had always a function of some sort.

This is paraphrased...and since the book doesn't have an index, not sure when her times of rising are mentioned, but as you mentioned, the 11AM breakfast may have been noted in another book.

Hope this is helpful

[Trudie]

What difference does it make what time she had breakfast if you look at pictures of her you can see she didn't miss a meal. :lmao3: I guess she wasn't called Cake for nothing.

[Hale]

"Cake!"   :P

[lilibet80]

"Cake!"   :P

What I think Trudie is referring to is the mean nickname that the Duke and Duchess of Windsor gave her, which is "that fat Scotch cook" then they shortened it to "Cookie."  As far as when she ate breakfast, many ladies of her social stratum wanted to stay out of the servants way while they were cleaning the downstairs rooms.  So they stayed upstairs in their own rooms so the maids could get on with their work. 

[Hale]

Fat Scotch Cook and Cookie I knew about.  It is still the norm today for women of that social class to take their breakfast in bed whilst the men take their breakfast downstairs in the small dining room.

It's to give ladies time to prepare themselves for the rest of the day.  Backstairs Billy, said the QM always took her breakfast in her room on a tray.

[Trudie]

From the memoirs of Nicky Haslam the QM was also known as cake.

[scooter]

To me the funniest part of the new Queen Mother biography is that Camilla is mentioned exactly ONCE in passing as the wife of APB. Please pass the whitewash...

[drezzle]

New York Times Review:

That said, the queen mother was never cut from the same cloth as such stirring figures as Elizabeth I or Mary Queen of Scots or even her grandson's wife Diana. She didn't shape the times she lived in; she attended functions during them. Adhering to the principle that royals should be seen but not really heard, the queen mother seems to have said little that was truly interesting. ................... If she ever had an original thought, it goes unreported here. And while Shawcross had access to letters no other biographer has ever laid eyes on, the results are uninspiring. Elizabeth, whose dowdy attire matched her humdrum intellect, started writing vacuous letters when she was a child, and she never stopped.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/books/review/Queenan-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=queen%20mother&st=cse

[lilibet80]

Prudish? Excuse me? If thinking disapproving of "adultery" is prudish, what about the families hurt by it and the public disgrace. Charles for one got scolded by a pensioner the day after the Camillagate tape came out. And if it is just plain prudish, why did Letterman, Clinton et al feel obligated to apologize publicly for their adultery?

Charles has no moral compass which has been the root of his problems.

I find it interesting that you will stick up for Wallis Simpson, yet ignore the fact that she broke up Ernest Simpson's marriage. Ernest Simpson left his wife and daughter Audrey while his wife was ill in a Paris Hospital.  Wallis then took over, moved into this woman's home and ran it.  Yet you condemn Camilla for doing the same thing.

And you think it 'prudish" for anyone to be concerned about being  cuckolded by a prince? Charles could have been involved with a prvate first class' wife and it would still be adultery.

[lilibet80]

I have always, in all my posts said that Prince Charles was wrong and not a gentleman.  I do not think you are being "prudish" nor have I expressed myself that way to you or about you.  I just think if Wallis did the same thing as Camilla she is just as wrong and should not be defended.  All I have ever said about Camilla is that, in my opinion, any woman who sees fit to carry on with a married man is not an innocent.  However, Wallis Simpson was no innocent either and I do not understand your defense of this woman while espressing such continous and endless condemnation of Camilla.

[sandy]

I believe Camilla deserves the condemnation. IMO she is not a nice person and dressing her up in tiaras and gowns and adding the HRH does not change my opinion of her.

[lilibet80]

How about extending your criticism to Wallis, or do you think she is a nice person?

[sandy]

Wallis had bad points but she didn't break up David's marriage (since he never married). She also didn't get away with bad behavior the way Camilla did (who IMO was rewarded for her bad behavior by getting the HRH and everything her little heart desired).