Choice of Therapist for Diana?

[sandy]

Frances also was seriously ill at the end of her life. She also was heartbroken that the royals did not call her and offer their condolences for Diana's death and she was never allowed to see her daughter's body before she was buried.

[royalanthropologist]

Frances was an alcoholic by the time of her death. She was not speaking to Diana by the time the late princess died. Apparently she had called Diana names, which if repeated by anyone else might be considered to be a hate crime. As for calling her to offer condolence, I think it is a bit much considering her behavior and the state of the relationship. I understand she wrote a codicil in her will, effectively dis-inviting the prince of wales from her funeral...and some people dare to call the Windsors vindictive.

Diana had wealth but a horrendous family life. Those dysfunctional Spencers make the Windsors look like the perfect family. All the funeral arrangements were led by Frances children. She could have called them to say she wanted to see the body. Frankly speaking, I would be very surprised if the Prince of Wales had any further communication with her. She was bad news and they might have preferred to just let her stew in her grievances. She had done enough of that for most of her life. Even at Diana's wedding, Johnny Spencer could hardly tolerate being next to her. You could see the tensions, all those years after the divorce. If Diana was looking for a role model, Francis was not ideal. 

[TLLK]

There may not have been a genetic component to Sarah and Diana's illnesses, but I believe there was a family history on both sides of depression and other disorders. Frances grew up a very independent minded person but it was made clear to her and her sister that they must make good marriages and pressure was put on them from their mid teens by their mother Ruth to do so. Both Frances and her sister had a couple of marriages end in divorce and, like her brother, I believe Frances suffered from depression. In her case at low points in her life she dulled the pain with alcohol.

@Curryong-I did discover this information recently that eating disorders like other mental illnesses can have a genetic component with siblings being at risk of developing them. They're also prone to OCD, BPD and depression.

Factors that may be involved in developing an eating disorder include:

    Genetics. People with first degree relatives, siblings or parents, with an eating disorder appear to be more at risk of developing an eating disorder, too. This suggests a genetic link. Evidence that the brain chemical, serotonin, is involved also points a contributing genetic and biological factors.
    Environment. Cultural pressures that stress "thinness" as beautiful for women and muscular development and body size for men places undue pressure on people of achieve unrealistic standards. Popular culture and media images often tie being thin to popularity, success, beauty and happiness. This creates a strong desire to very thin.
    Peer Pressure. With young people, this can be a very powerful force. Pressure can appear in the form of teasing, bullying or ridicule because of size or weight. A history of physical or sexual abuse can also contribute to some people developing an eating disorder.
    Emotional Health. Perfectionism, impulsive behavior and difficult relationships can all contribute to lowering a person's self-esteem and make them vulnerable to developing eating disorders.

Eating disorders affect all types of people. However there are certain risk factors that put some people at greater risk for developing an eating disorder.

    Age. Eating disorders are much more common during teens and early 20s.
    Gender. Statistically, teenage girls and young women are more likely to have eating disorders, but they are more likely to be noticed/treated for one. Teenage boys and men are less likely seek help, but studies show that 1 out of 10 people diagnosed with eating disorders are male.
    Family history. Having a parent or sibling with an eating disorder increases the risk.
    Dieting. Dieting taken too far can become an eating disorder.
    Changes. Times of change like going to college, starting a new job, or getting divorced may be a stressor towards developing an eating disorder.
    Vocations and activities. Eating disorders are especially common among gymnasts, runners, wrestlers and dancers.

Diagnosis

A person with an eating disorder will have the best recovery outcome if he or she receives an early diagnosis. If an eating disorder is believed to an issue, a doctor will usually perform a physical examination, conduct an interview and order lab tests. These will help form the diagnosis and check for related medical issues and complications.

In addition, a mental health professional will conduct a psychological evaluation. She may ask questions about eating habits, behaviors and beliefs. There may be questions about a patient's history of dieting, exercise, bingeing and purging.

Symptoms must meet the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in order to warrant a diagnosis. Each eating disorder has its own diagnostic criteria that a mental health professional will use to determine which disorder is involved. It is not necessary to have all the criteria for a disorder to benefit from working with a mental health professional on food and eating issues.

Often a person with an eating disorder will have symptoms of another mental health condition that requires treatment. Whenever possible, it is best to identified and address all conditions at the same time. This gives a person comprehensive treatment support that helps insure a lasting recovery.
Treatment

Eating disorders are managed using a variety of techniques. Treatments will vary depending on the type of disorder, but will generally include the following.

    Psychotherapy, such as talk therapy or behavioral therapy.
    Medicine, such as antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs. Many people living with an eating disorder often have a co-occurring illness like depression or anxiety, and while there is no medication available to treat eating disorders themselves, many patients find that these medicines help with underlying issues.
    Nutritional counseling and weight restoration monitoring are also crucial. Family based treatment is especially important for families with children and adolescents because it enlists the families' help to better insure healthy eating patterns, and increases awareness and support.

Related Conditions

People with eating disorders often have additional illnesses:

    Depression
    Anxiety disorders
    Borderline personality disorder
    Obsessive-compulsive disorder
    Substance abuse

Treating these illnesses can help make treating an eating disorder easier. Some of the symptoms of eating disorders may be caused by another ilnesss.
Find your local NAMI
- See more at: http://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Eating-Disorders#sthash.K8DDK2kb.dpuf

[sandy]

Frances was an alcoholic by the time of her death. She was not speaking to Diana by the time the late princess died. Apparently she had called Diana names, which if repeated by anyone else might be considered to be a hate crime. As for calling her to offer condolence, I think it is a bit much considering her behavior and the state of the relationship. I understand she wrote a codicil in her will, effectively dis-inviting the prince of wales from her funeral...and some people dare to call the Windsors vindictive.

Diana had wealth but a horrendous family life. Those dysfunctional Spencers make the Windsors look like the perfect family. All the funeral arrangements were led by Frances children. She could have called them to say she wanted to see the body. Frankly speaking, I would be very surprised if the Prince of Wales had any further communication with her. She was bad news and they might have preferred to just let her stew in her grievances. She had done enough of that for most of her life. Even at Diana's wedding, Johnny Spencer could hardly tolerate being next to her. You could see the tensions, all those years after the divorce. If Diana was looking for a role model, Francis was not ideal. 

No the "drink" was not the cause of death.  Frances was quite ill and no it was not from drinking. SHe had Parkinson's Disease and died of a Brain Tumor.

She was still the mother of Prince Charles' ex and  maternal grandmother of PRince Charles' children. It would have been simple politeness for them (the Queen did not bother to offer condolences, I don't think she was expecting anything from her ex son in law) to offer condolences. They don't have to like the person. It made them look boorish to snub her like that IMO.

Frances and Charles did not get along. She did not like the way he treated Diana and his attitude towards her. She was perfectly free to bar him and just invite her grandsons by Diana. I say good for her for not wanting the hypocrisy of his "mourning her." He had divorced her daughter and was no longer her son in law.

Oh please, the Windsors are full of dysfunctional people. It would take too long to recount some of the more bizarre members of the clan.

I don't think Frances cared if the Great Man did not pay attention to her.

[Curryong]

Thank you, TLLK. That makes very interesting reading. Although Sarah had a different sort of eating disorder to her sister I do wonder why the two couldn't have got together at the start of Diana's bulimia and talked things over. Sarah could have suggested some techniques she had been taught, if any, to counter it.

At the very least the two of them could have shared this, talked about options, therapists etc. I guess the rivalry the two siblings had, unspoken at times, got in the way. It's also pretty sad that Victoria, Charles Spencer's wife also had issues with addictions but had to deal with them, and a bad marriage, on her own. All these separate self-contained little units, with serious problems, never confiding in each other. Awful really.

Ps The point of my previous post though was really to point out that there could have been a propensity towards depression in the Roche family which perhaps added to Diana's burdens. I also believe that there was a history of depression in the Windsor family, especially among George V's sons.
Double post auto-merged: March 29, 2017, 12:13:44 AM

Thank you, TLLK. That makes very interesting reading. Although Sarah had a different sort of eating disorder to her sister I do wonder why the two couldn't have got together at the start of Diana's bulimia and talked things over. Sarah could have suggested some techniques she had been taught, if any, to counter it.

At the very least the two of them could have shared this, talked about options, therapists etc. I guess the rivalry the two siblings had, unspoken at times, got in the way. It's also pretty sad that Victoria, Charles Spencer's wife also had issues with addictions but had to deal with them, and a bad marriage, on her own. All these separate self-contained little units, with serious problems, never confiding in each other. Awful really.

Ps The point of my previous post though was really to point out that there could have been a propensity towards depression in the Roche family which perhaps added to Diana's burdens.

[TLLK]

Thank you, TLLK. That makes very interesting reading. Although Sarah had a different sort of eating disorder to her sister I do wonder why the two couldn't have got together at the start of Diana's bulimia and talked things over. Sarah could have suggested some techniques she had been taught, if any, to counter it.

At the very least the two of them could have shared this, talked about options, therapists etc. I guess the rivalry the two siblings had, unspoken at times, got in the way. It's also pretty sad that Victoria, Charles Spencer's wife also had issues with addictions but had to deal with them, and a bad marriage, on her own. All these separate self-contained little units, with serious problems, never confiding in each other. Awful really.

Ps The point of my previous post though was really to point out that there could have been a propensity towards depression in the Roche family which perhaps added to Diana's burdens. I also believe that there was a history of depression in the Windsor family, especially among George V's sons.
Double post auto-merged: Today at 06:13:44 AM

It is sad that Sarah was unable to help both Diana and Victoria because she likely understood better than anyone the hell that they were going through. However there is such a stigma that exists even today about any discussion of mental illness. I sincerely hope that with the efforts that the Cambridges and Prince Harry are undertaking to spotlight the organizations that can help the many forms of mental illness that people will seek treatment for themselves and their loved ones.

Yes there is a genetic tendency for depression among the members of the BRF and those who have married into the family. Katherine Kent is one of the best known members of the family who has bravely acknowledged her own struggles and treatment.

@royalanthropologist -Sadly Frances was an alcoholic toward the end of her life. She understandably had issues with depression along with other medical issues.

[sandy]

Charles paternal grandmother had to be committed for a time. She managed to overcome her illness and worked for charitable endeavors.

There is now more attention to eating disorders not because of William and Harry and Kate but because there are more people coming forward. A big problem happens when young women starve themselves to become fashion models and have body image problems.

[TLLK]

Charles paternal grandmother had to be committed for a time. She managed to overcome her illness and worked for charitable endeavors.

Yes Princess Alice was committed to an institution during Phillip's childhood. Perhaps in later decades her mental illness could have been treated with medication and talk therapy.

[royalanthropologist]

You are quite right about the cause of death (re Frances) and all my sympathies for anyone that suffers from those two conditions.

However, that does not remove the fact that Frances was an alcoholic with a less than functional relationship with her daughter. I doubt Prince Charles was particularly bothered by being dis-invited to the funeral of his former mother-in-law. He never liked her and she never liked him. They were not really important to one another.  Her death was not a state occasion which required his attendance. That codicil was just attention-seeking by a woman that was preoccupied with real and imaginary grievances.

The problem with the Spencers (with the possible exception of the older girl and Johnny) is that they crave attention and are super vindictive. They go on these plotting and revenge schemes that hurt nobody but themselves. Of course Charles could have retaliated by banning his children from the funeral but thankfully he is more sensible than that. 

I remember when Charles Spencer had the nerve to suggest that he has an open door policy for Charles to visit Diana's grave. Silly man; the only reason that Diana is locked way in a cold island (away from her true place at Frogmore or Westminster Abbey) is because of the pettiness and vindictivness of that man. At least he got some money from all those visitors. Protecting her legacy my foot: the man is a prize chump and has exploited his sister to the maximum. Hopefully when William is King, he will inter Diana in a suitably royal place.

[Curryong]

There were lots of rumours following Diana's funeral that she is not in fact buried in that rather isolated and marshy island on the Althorp estate, but in the nearby village church, long associated with the Spencer family. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. The church vaults include her grandmother Cynthia Spencer, whom Diana regarded as a sort of guardian angel, a very gentle and good woman who was bullied by a cold and detached husband.

The theory goes that the re-internment took place in the utmost secrecy in case the small village was besieged by coach loads of visitors and swamped by media interest. More seriously they were worried about break ins at the church by ghouls or someone wishing to steal the coffin.

[sandy]

It was her business. HOw can one be attention seeking after she is dead?

Charles would never bar his children from attending his grandmother's funeral. He would really seem unhinged if he did that.

The royals are pretty darn petty too. Wallis Simpson was fully entitled to be HRH upon marrying the DUke of Windsor. The royals made sure she did not get what she was entitled to. Charles was petty about his own parents and bashed them to his biographer.

[royalanthropologist]

@Curryong. If that is true then Charles Spencer has some decency left. That marshy island was a true disgrace.
Double post auto-merged: March 29, 2017, 01:37:22 AM

All true @sandy (about the royal pettiness) but not really relevant to my comment on Frances. Yes, one can be petty in death. For example writing codicils dis-inviting people who you are certain are unlikely to attend your funeral. Charles was the only remaining parent to those children and they were under age. He could have barred them without any consequence to him or the royal family. They themselves could have stayed away, just like they did when Charles was marrying one of his many wives.

[TLLK]

There were lots of rumours following Diana's funeral that she is not in fact buried in that rather isolated and marshy island on the Althorp estate, but in the nearby village church, long associated with the Spencer family. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. The church vaults include her grandmother Cynthia Spencer, whom Diana regarded as a sort of guardian angel, a very gentle and good woman who was bullied by a cold and detached husband.

The theory goes that the re-internment took place in the utmost secrecy in case the small village was besieged by coach loads of visitors and swamped by media interest. More seriously they were worried about break ins at the church by ghouls or someone wishing to steal the coffin.

I believe that she's now buried in the church and not on the island. The marshy environment of the artificial island would create issues for it to be a permanent resting place.

[sandy]

@Curryong. If that is true then Charles Spencer has some decency left. That marshy island was a true disgrace.
Double post auto-merged: March 29, 2017, 01:37:22 AM

All true @sandy (about the royal pettiness) but not really relevant to my comment on Frances. Yes, one can be petty in death. For example writing codicils dis-inviting people who you are certain are unlikely to attend your funeral. Charles was the only remaining parent to those children and they were under age. He could have barred them without any consequence to him or the royal family. They themselves could have stayed away, just like they did when Charles was marrying one of his many wives.

Why is it not relevant? Frances did not operate in a vacuum. She was not petty, it was what she wanted to do. She did not live under a dictatorship after all nor should she have. Charles would have known darn well he'd get skewered if he told his sons they could not attend their grandmother's funeral. The Queen would have had to stop in and stop the insanity of her son. Charles Spencer had 3 wives, Charles Windsor is no better with his married mistresses.

I think Frances had Charles number. Charles was hypocritical enough to want Camilla to attend his late ex wife's memorial service.

[amabel]

Charles paternal grandmother had to be committed for a time. She managed to overcome her illness and worked for charitable endeavors.

Yes Princess Alice was committed to an institution during Phillip's childhood. Perhaps in later decades her mental illness could have been treated with medication and talk therapy.

I think it was soemthign to do with the Menopause...
Double post auto-merged: March 29, 2017, 07:21:35 PM

You are quite right about the cause of death (re Frances) and all my sympathies for anyone that suffers from those two conditions.

However, that does not remove the fact that Frances was an alcoholic with a less than functional relationship with her daughter. I doubt Prince Charles was particularly bothered by being dis-invited to the funeral of his former mother-in-law. He never liked her and she never liked him. They were not really important to one another.  Her death was not a state occasion which required his attendance. That codicil was just attention-seeking by a woman that was preoccupied with real and imaginary grievances.

The problem with the Spencers (with the possible exception of the older girl and Johnny) is that they crave attention and are super vindictive. They go on these plotting and revenge schemes that hurt nobody but themselves. Of course Charles could have retaliated by banning his children from the funeral but thankfully he is more sensible than that. 

I remember when Charles Spencer had the nerve to suggest that he has an open door policy for Charles to visit Diana's grave. Silly man; the only reason that Diana is locked way in a cold island (away from her true place at Frogmore or Westminster Abbey) is because of the pettiness and vindictivness of that man. At least he got some money from all those visitors. Protecting her legacy my foot: the man is a prize chump and has exploited his sister to the maximum. Hopefully when William is King, he will inter Diana in a suitably royal place.

sorry but that's absolutely wrong. It was nothing to do with Chalres S, the RF would never have wanted Diana to be interred with them and she I'm sure would not have wanted it either. Why would she want to lie close to a family whom she disliked and who dislked her? She was not royal except in a very vague sense, after her divorce and there was no way the RF/ QUeen would have wanted her buried among them.

[TLLK]

I think it was soemthign to do with the Menopause...

I thought that she'd been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

[sandy]

Charles paternal grandmother had to be committed for a time. She managed to overcome her illness and worked for charitable endeavors.

Yes Princess Alice was committed to an institution during Phillip's childhood. Perhaps in later decades her mental illness could have been treated with medication and talk therapy.

I think it was soemthign to do with the Menopause...
Double post auto-merged: March 29, 2017, 07:21:35 PM

You are quite right about the cause of death (re Frances) and all my sympathies for anyone that suffers from those two conditions.

However, that does not remove the fact that Frances was an alcoholic with a less than functional relationship with her daughter. I doubt Prince Charles was particularly bothered by being dis-invited to the funeral of his former mother-in-law. He never liked her and she never liked him. They were not really important to one another.  Her death was not a state occasion which required his attendance. That codicil was just attention-seeking by a woman that was preoccupied with real and imaginary grievances.

The problem with the Spencers (with the possible exception of the older girl and Johnny) is that they crave attention and are super vindictive. They go on these plotting and revenge schemes that hurt nobody but themselves. Of course Charles could have retaliated by banning his children from the funeral but thankfully he is more sensible than that. 

I remember when Charles Spencer had the nerve to suggest that he has an open door policy for Charles to visit Diana's grave. Silly man; the only reason that Diana is locked way in a cold island (away from her true place at Frogmore or Westminster Abbey) is because of the pettiness and vindictivness of that man. At least he got some money from all those visitors. Protecting her legacy my foot: the man is a prize chump and has exploited his sister to the maximum. Hopefully when William is King, he will inter Diana in a suitably royal place.

sorry but that's absolutely wrong. It was nothing to do with Chalres S, the RF would never have wanted Diana to be interred with them and she I'm sure would not have wanted it either. Why would she want to lie close to a family whom she disliked and who dislked her? She was not royal except in a very vague sense, after her divorce and there was no way the RF/ QUeen would have wanted her buried among them.

As I recall, the Queen did offer Frogmore as a burial place for Diana but the Spencers did not want her there. They put the Spencer standard over her casket and buried her at Althorp. Diana was not royal in any vague sense. I don't know why the mother of a future monarch should be in any "vague" sense. It seems crystal clear to me.

[FanDianaFancy]

I remember when Charles Spencer had the nerve to suggest that he has an open door policy for Charles to visit Diana's grave. Silly man; the only reason that Diana is locked way in a cold island (away from her true place at Frogmore or Westminster Abbey) is because of the pettiness and vindictivness of that man. At least he got some money from all those visitors. Protecting her legacy my foot: the man is a prize chump and has exploited his sister to the maximum. Hopefully when William is King, he will inter Diana in a suitably royal place.

I agree with you about Fatty man greedy Spencer.

[amabel]

I think it was soemthign to do with the Menopause...

I thought that she'd been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

I'm not sure... I thought that it was something that came along in middle age.. but I think that Schizophrenia can sometimes "burst out" in mid life.  She was OK as a younger woman

[Curryong]

According to the biography 'Young Prince Philip' by Philip Eade, Alice of Greece began acting in an abnormal manner in the late 1920's when Philip was about eight. Her mother Victoria was very anxious about her behaviour when she visited and Prince Andrew's sister in law,  Marie Bonaparte, a psychoanalyst herself arranged for her to be examined by a fellow Freudian Dr Ernst Simmel at the Tegel clinic, just outside Berlin.

Dr Simmel diagnosed Alice as a paranoid schizophrenic after a few sessions. Alice seemingly believed that she was the only woman on earth, married to Christ and physically involved through him with other religious leaders such as Buddha. Sigmund Freud, Simmel's friend, was consulted and proposed that exposure of Alice's gonads through X Rays would help, 'in order to accelerate menopause'!

This was done, she felt better but soon relapsed. Andrew and Victoria consulted other members of the family and subsequently, in 1930, Alice was confined to a clinic at Lake Constance, run by a Dr Binswanger. It was Victoria who made the decision to ask that she be confined, though she was miserable about it. Alice remained there for several years and had little contact with her son thereafter.

[TLLK]

Oh my I had not realized how serious Princess Alice's condition had become prior to her being institutionalized.

[amabel]

Oh my I had not realized how serious Princess Alice's condition had become prior to her being institutionalized.

I thought that she improved and was at Phil's wedding?  She helped some Jews to escape from Germany presumably that was during the war?  so how could she do that if she was in a hospital

[Curryong]

Alice was committed to the Bellevue Sanitorium at Lake Constance at the beginning of May 1930. (She resisted that committal and had to be heavily drugged.) Philip barely saw her for years. Andrew drifted off and her daughters, who barely saw her either, married, one of them at a very young age.

In the Spring of 1937 Alice's progress was such that she was allowed to attend a family lunch. Philip saw her for the first time for five years. He was fifteen. Her mother and her daughters were delighted by Alice's condition though Cecile worried because Alice announced that she wanted to found an order of nuns and, unrealistically, also reconcile with their father. Dr Binswanger (head of the Lake Constance clinic) warned that she would 'always have to be watched over and guided'. She met her siblings again and though Cecile's death in that plane crash with practically her entire family soon afterwards was a terrible grief, (the funeral was the first time she and Andrew had met since he and Philip had visited her in 1932)  she continued to recover.

Yes, Alice was independent and went to live in Greece and founded an order of nuns. She did help many people, including Jews, during the war years in Athens. However, she was known to be an eccentric woman who always followed her own path. (That helped when dealing with the Germans during the war.) However over five years in an institution did nothing to help build a close relationship with her only son who was a little boy when she left (and perhaps must have experienced his mother's manic episodes before her committal.) He and his younger cousins were taken out for the day when they came to get her.

[amabel]

well she obviously recovered a good deal, and did a lot of good with her life..
I think that Philip is a self sufficient type and if he had resentemetnt against his mother for leaving him as he would have seen it as a child, I think he was too sensible to carry that resentment into adulthood. 
Anyway no idea really what Princess Alice's illness has to do with Diana's therapists.
There was no point in people recommending therapists to Diana till she was ready to tlak to one.. but given that her sister Sarah DID have SOMe similar helath problems, I would have thought that she wodl have tried to talk to Diana about her vomiting.  however maybe she did try and was rebuffed.
James Colthurst, who was a doctor, said that he was aware that Di had bulimia when he became friendly wit her again in the 80s but that it was difficult to talk to her about it.. I suppose because he knew that she would not listen or act on his advice unless she ahd reached a point where she was ready to admit her illness.