Looking critically

[dianab]

her sister sarah said to iirc james whitaker in 1981 or 1982 they were afraid she was going through anorexia... but according to all sources frances and the sisters didnt want got involved with diana's issues. frances said to her biographer after diana married she didnt want get involved with her life and didnt think it was wrong she to be out of life of her newly married daughter...

frances marriage just broke down in 1986 or 1987 and according to ken warphe, druing this time she visited highgrove and got on with charles... it was carolyn bartholomew who pressured diana got help and james coulthurst helped too. the spencers werent around her during her bulimia years or depression post partum...

i think it very telling that when diana moved to clarence house after engaged she said to her flatmates she'll need them more than ever... when she had 2 sisters... particularly one married to a courtier... another very into horses and hunting, i've always read her sister sarah hang out in those charles' circles because that

in morton book there are some childhood friends whom said as diana idolized her sister sarah whom always treated her as 'a dog' - words of the friend, i think named lucinda... growing up she never had a fraternal relationship with her sisters... according to herself and people around the spencers

since 1978, johnnie spencer was in very bad healthy state

[amabel]

Anorexia does not usually involve throwing up.. that is bulimia.  Sarah had anorexia, she dieted obsessively..Diana dieted and lost weight but she also binge ate and threw up, but she believed her weight loss wasn't showing. The 2 illnesses are boht food disorders but they are not the same.

Diana didn't develop the bulimia till after she got engaged and was part of the RF..but she was still apparently eating normally so her weight loss (to non experts) was a mystery.  She was referred to a doctor by Charles and the RF..but she did not talk to him about her food compuslions.  There is nothing strange about this.. Bulimics usually hide their illness and are secretive and don't admit to themselves that they have a problem

[sandy]

Anorexia and Bulimia are both eating disorders. Lipsedge treated both of them. Both can be life threatening if it becomes extreme.

Diana was skin and bones in Fall 1982. There are photos to show this. Then she went back to her regular weight.

Diana had to admit  her symptoms to those doctors in 1981/1982 who gave her valium.

[amabel]

She didn't talk about her bulimia.  She probably admitted that she was tense and anxious, and they put her on Valium as was standard practice.  She didn't take it for long because she soon became pregnant.
Her friend who was a doctor, said that "you coudlnt' say anything to her because she was so vulnerable" so he had probably tried to gently hint towards the subject of her weight loss and her disappearing after meals but Diana was not able to admit initially that she had a problem.  When she did admit it, She was able to start treatment and improved...

[sandy]

When a person goes to a doctor he asks about symptoms. ANd makes a diagnosis. Valium was merely a band aid and did not get to the root of the problem. Doctors are called on to help cures and get the best medication. Maybe valium was more "in vogue" then but I doubt the same treatment would be given today.

The doctor should have known it was an eating disorder.

[amabel]

When a person goes to a doctor he asks about symptoms. ANd makes a diagnosis. Valium was merely a band aid and did not get to the root of the problem. Doctors are called on to help cures and get the best medication. Maybe valium was more "in vogue" then but I doubt the same treatment would be given today.

The doctor should have known it was an eating disorder.

He probably did realise that she was either anorexic or bulimic.. but there were not many specialists in eating disorders at the time.  And if Diana woudlnt' talk about the illness, he could not do anything.  All he could do would be to prescribe something to help her anxiety

[sandy]

Karen Carpenter brought a lot of attention to eating disorders. It was known back then.
If that was all he could do he should have been dismissed on the spot.

Some patients are tight lipped about their illnesses with the doctor, some are too weak to talk, the doctors Diana saw sound incompetent to me.

[amabel]

Karen Carpenter brought a lot of attention to eating disorders. It was known back then.
If that was all he could do he should have been dismissed on the spot.

Some patients are tight lipped about their illnesses with the doctor, some are too weak to talk, the doctors Diana saw sound incompetent to me.

Karen Carpenter was American and even in the US I don't think there were that many experts on Eating disorders.  I don't see how you can say that a doctor "shouidl be dismissed" for providing medication according to normal practices.  As I've said, it is likely that Diana's doctor did guess that she was anorexic or bulimic (since she seemed to be eating normally at times)? but if Diana would not discuss her illness with him, he could not treat her. I hardly imagine she was "too weak to talk" because she had lost a bit of weight....
What exactly do you think a doctor could have done, if a patient refused to discuss the compulsions that were cuasing them to vomit?

[sandy]

Karen Carpenter was an internationally famous singer.Certainly the UK knew about her.

Doctors can be dismissed if they prove unsatisfactory. People have choices.

What if a patient is unconscious and does not talk? The doctor would have to diagnose and not wait for the patient to regain consciousness.

[amabel]

Karen Carpenter was an internationally famous singer.Certainly the UK knew about her.

Doctors can be dismissed if they prove unsatisfactory. People have choices.

What if a patient is unconscious and does not talk? The doctor would have to diagnose and not wait for the patient to regain consciousness.

If Diana found the doctor unsatisfactory she could have asked for another doctor.  but if she wouldn't talk to him, she would be in the same boat as before. 
We are not talking abuot physical illnesses.  For Diana to get some control over her bulimia, she needed to see a psychotherapist and discuss the illness nad her problems. She would not admit she had  a problem..so even if dozens of doctors told her that she had anorexia or bulimia, she wold not accept it and would have no chance  of a cure.  HOw do you think they could treat someone who refused to talk about an eating disorder?  there is no "magic drug" to help someone with the compulsion to diet obsessively or throw up their food...

[sandy]

I am not sure how many doctors there were.

throwing up food is physical. It may require counseling but the physical aspects of it are very much in evidence.

Valium is not the answer.

What if the person is unconscious. What then? how can the person be "counseled.?"

[amabel]

I am not sure how many doctors there were.

throwing up food is physical. It may require counseling but the physical aspects of it are very much in evidence.

Valium is not the answer.

What if the person is unconscious. What then? how can the person be "counseled.?"

Generally speaking people with mental illnesses are not unconscious Sandy.  And no, they are not "counselled" if they are unconscious.  I don't know what you mean.  There are no tablets that can stop someone deliberately vomiting up their food...so Im puzzled what treatment you think a doctor can give, other than psycholloigcal therapy

[sandy]

Some might be.  They are Diagnosed without the person speaking and put in a hospital, with specialists coming to see the patient.

I made my point here.

[amabel]

Some might be.  They are Diagnosed without the person speaking and put in a hospital, with specialists coming to see the patient.

I made my point here.

Sandy, how do you think doctors can treat soemoen with bulimia, who is "unconscious"???? if they are unconsciious, and comatose they wont be fed normally and will nto in any case be able to deliberaltey vomit up tehir food.

[sandy]

I am not rehashing this with you about unconscious patients. Diana got the help she needed the past can't be changed. I think the wrong people were sent to treat her and I stand by this opinion. Potentially, valium could have just made the situation worse. In many ways, I think all of this is a moot point but i think treatment of bulimia had advanced by the time Diana went to Dr. Lipsedge. She also did not just avoid facing her feelings and get the physical manifestation of her stress. She even faced Camilla and told her how she felt and did not "keep in" the feelings. Hiding true feelings can cause physical ills like ulcers.

[amabel]

I am not rehashing this with you. Diana go the help she needed the past can't be changed. I think the wrong people were sent to treat her and I stand by this opinion. Potentially, valium could have just made the situation worse.

Valium would not make the situation worse.. unless Diana went on taking it for a long time.. She did not take it for long....
She got help when she decided to go for treatment and to discuss her problems with a psychiatric specialist in eating disorders.  There is no magic cure or tablet that a doctor can give to cure this problem...

[sandy]

Valium can lead to addiction. It is not "harmless". If Diana were prone to being addicted to it, problems could have happened.

So why did she get sent the wrong doctors by her husband? I think she had great rapport with Dr. Lipsedge.

[amabel]

Valium can lead to addiction. It is not "harmless". If Diana were prone to being addicted to it, problems could have happened.

So why did she get sent the wrong doctors by her husband? I think she had great rapport with Dr. Lipsedge.

she could have seen Dr Lipsedge if she had asked for him.  But he could not treat her until she was ready to talk...
Valium was not going to be addictive if diana took it for a short while under medical supervisition...

[sandy]

Sarah seemed not to bother too much with her sister. Maybe she just could not be bothered to refer Diana to Dr. Lipsedge. Strange.

Valium is reported to be potentially addictive.

[oak_and_cedar]

Anorexia does not usually involve throwing up.. that is bulimia.  Sarah had anorexia, she dieted obsessively..Diana dieted and lost weight but she also binge ate and threw up, but she believed her weight loss wasn't showing. The 2 illnesses are boht food disorders but they are not the same.

Diana didn't develop the bulimia till after she got engaged and was part of the RF..but she was still apparently eating normally so her weight loss (to non experts) was a mystery.  She was referred to a doctor by Charles and the RF..but she did not talk to him about her food compuslions.  There is nothing strange about this.. Bulimics usually hide their illness and are secretive and don't admit to themselves that they have a problem

This quote explains what can happen when someone has anorexia:

"You may try to lose weight by starving yourself, exercising excessively, or using laxatives, vomiting, or other methods to purge yourself after eating."

Anorexia Nervosa - HelpGuide.org

Diana showed drastic weight loss early on. Did her family not see photos of her in this state, if they did not visit her? Why did it take Diana's friend to "raise the alarm?"

A doctor has to ask what's the matter and look for symptoms and such before prescribing any medication. This is standard procedure. On what basis did the doctor prescribe valium? It doesn't make any sense, IMO.
Double post auto-merged: September 12, 2019, 05:33:30 PM

Sarah seemed not to bother too much with her sister. Maybe she just could not be bothered to refer Diana to Dr. Lipsedge. Strange.

Valium is reported to be potentially addictive.

This is baffling to me. Why did her family not make the effort? Was it a question of jealousy? I don't know.

[sandy]

Carolyn Bartholmew Diana's friend noticed her weight loss in the run up to the wedding. Her sisters and her mother did not appear to be "alarmed." Frances admitted she had a hands off attitude towards Diana in the run up to the wedding. She did help her pick out the suit  for the engagement picture and other tasks but seemed to turn a blind eye. I wonder if Sarah just ignored it and did not even recommend Dr. Lipsedge.

[oak_and_cedar]

It is odd that journalists and other people were making remarks as to her weight loss after her marriage.

And it was her friend Carolyn pushing Diana to do something.

Perhaps some members of her family were just happy that she married the POW and having that connection?

I do wonder how Diana was treated growing up.

[amabel]

It is odd that journalists and other people were making remarks as to her weight loss after her marriage.

And it was her friend Carolyn pushing Diana to do something.

Perhaps some members of her family were just happy that she married the POW and having that connection?

I do wonder how Diana was treated growing up.

Sarah said to a journalist "we'd like to talk to her about it.." which suggests that trying to hint to her that she was losing too much weight wasn't getting them anywhere.  James Colthurst who is a doctor, who realised that she was throwng up her meals.. said that it was difficult to talk to her about it.  It is characteristic of anorexia and even more bulimia that the sufferers keep it secret and wont talk about it.  When Diana finally realised that she had a problem then she was able to go for therapy and got some control over it.
Double post auto-merged: September 13, 2019, 06:50:55 AM

Sarah seemed not to bother too much with her sister. Maybe she just could not be bothered to refer Diana to Dr. Lipsedge. Strange.

Valium is reported to be potentially addictive.

Many drugs are potentailly additicve? which is why they are taken under medical supervision and only for short periods, with monitoring.  That does not mean that they cannot be helpful..

[oak_and_cedar]

Sarah said to a journalist "we'd like to talk to her about it.." which suggests that trying to hint to her that she was losing too much weight wasn't getting them anywhere.  James Colthurst who is a doctor, who realised that she was throwng up her meals.. said that it was difficult to talk to her about it.  It is characteristic of anorexia and even more bulimia that the sufferers keep it secret and wont talk about it.  When Diana finally realised that she had a problem then she was able to go for therapy and got some control over it.

But still, Carolyn took it a step further and got very stern with Diana and that's what made her go to the doctors. Why weren't anyone in her family that persistant?

[amabel]

But still, Carolyn took it a step further and got very stern with Diana and that's what made her go to the doctors. Why weren't anyone in her family that persistant?

we don't know really what happened.  Carolyn is said to have said she would go to the papers if Diana didn't seek treatement... but If that were the case I would say that Diana would not have done well in therapy because she was all but forced into it..