When Charles is King - Part 2

Amabel2 · July 14, 2021, 07:11:16 PM

I meant that if a story is completely nonsensical, or wrong.. one is asking people questions about something that would probably never happen. Its like if there was a question on "what would you think of Kate becomng queen regnant".....

We dont know what Charles is going to do, but its possible that he wont give Edward a further title.. I would say that if George is getting married in 20 years time.. and Charles is still king, he'll give his eldest grandson a title of Duke of somewhere. I am not sure what will happen with Louis as a younger son.

wannable · July 14, 2021, 07:28:10 PM

The results of any question in YouGov is what people in the UK think, want, wish. A skewed story or not may influence, but a survey result is what it is.

Time will tell, but when a great majority of RR's say they think a title will not be given....

Amabel2 · July 14, 2021, 09:00:44 PM

surveys can be very influenced by what the questions are.. and as I've said- if a story is completely wrong but is used to ask people's opinion in a survey, it doesn't make sense to me. If there was a story in a magazine saying "Kate might be queen regnant one day" and a poll was taken in relation to it, it would not mean very much - because Kate can't be queen Regnant.
I know Charles wants to cut down on HRH's and working royals, but Edward is already HRH and a working royal.. and has 2 titles, Earl of Wessex and Earl of Forfar... so whene it has been mooted for some time to give him the Dukedom of Edinburgh, I think its probably going to happen.... OTOH, If Edward isnt too keen on the idea.. or if Philip had gone off the idea as he got older, or if Charles would like to keep the title for say George, it might not happen.. and I think that while he should take into account the queen's wishes, when HE is king, he should not be bound hand and foot by them..

Curryong · July 15, 2021, 02:25:17 AM

Quote from: wannable on July 14, 2021, 04:02:18 PM
Heart says Edward has been consistent with his Royal work, especially with the DOE awards. Charles needs to honour his father's 22 years ago wish.

Mind says Charles want's to modernize the monarchy to the new era, slimining down full cirlce. IF Edward agrees and keeps working for the monarchy, perhaps he should publicly support 'When Charles is King'.

IF Charles end up giving Edward the title, does it mean that it will go automatically to his son James. Richard Kay says constitutionally it does. Perhaps that is another (minor) reason, included in the mind list rather than the heart list. It would place James Wessex above Prince Louis in peerage and ranking?! Discuss and help me understand this. Would it place Charles (and William) in a hard place?

First, we don?t know that Philip did change his mind about the Edinburgh title going to Edward. If he did he obviously didn?t mention it to anyone or we would have heard whispers of such a change of heart before now. As for all the RRs agreeing that there won?t be a title given to Edward that?s because they are all now lined up behind Richard Kay, not because they knew it all along, not because CH gave info to each of them, but simply because in this sort of situation the newspapers play ?follow my leader? with such stories.

We don?t know whether Prince Louis will get a Dukedom. It could be 30 years in the future. Andrew may die in his seventies and William could be on the throne and after a couple of years give Louis the York title. When Louis is an adult he may well be in a profession, leading a private life and just not want such a thing as a peerage hanging round his neck like a millstone. We just don?t know.

As for James Wessex, if Edward gets the Edinburgh Dukedom then his son inherits that automatically on Edward?s death. Would he then outrank Prince Louis if Louis was given a Dukedom? No, because a Royal Dukedom outranks an ordinary Dukedom every time, and when James inherits Edinburgh (if Edward gets it) it will be out of the Royal Dukedoms and into the ?ordinary? peerages of GB.

If Louis is not given a Dukedom but remains a Prince then in the Peerage stakes James obviously wins. However, I consider it extremely unlikely that Louis won?t be given a Dukedom (if he agrees), at least in William?s reign, as the Cambridge title will then be subsumed into the Crown and Louis won?t have a territorial designation as a Prince.

Why would Charles or William be put in ?a bad place?? Charles is likely to be criticised in the Press for ignoring his parents? wishes re the Edinburgh title. However, if he wishes to begin his reign on a sour note that?s up to him. As far as any titles go it?s all in the realms of speculation anyway, whatever Kay and the RR?s say, or YouGov surveys. Surveys are taken note of if they show a trend in a certain direction but the monarch and Govt don?t make their minds up because of the results of any of them.

Curryong · July 15, 2021, 05:08:46 AM

Absolutely hilarious article, if old, about where Charles has gone wrong as Prince of Wales.
.

Where Prince Charles Went Wrong | The New Yorker

Amabel2 · July 15, 2021, 10:02:19 AM

A prince outranks a peer, and while technically James is HRH he's not using the title.. so Louis would be senior to him, as the son of a future king and a prince.
As for Charles, while I think he should give Edward Edinburgh, it IS up to him.. and he may have good reasons for not doing so.. He is a conservative person (Charles) and I dont think he LIKES cutting down on peerages for the RF and so on but he may feel that it is a good move. However I feel that unless Edward dislikes the idea of being a Duke.. he would give his youngest brother a dukedom...

Curryong · July 15, 2021, 10:50:27 AM

Quote from: Amabel2 on July 15, 2021, 10:02:19 AM
A prince outranks a peer, and while technically James is HRH he's not using the title.. so Louis would be senior to him, as the son of a future king and a prince.
As for Charles, while I think he should give Edward Edinburgh, it IS up to him.. and he may have good reasons for not doing so.. He is a conservative person (Charles) and I dont think he LIKES cutting down on peerages for the RF and so on but he may feel that it is a good move. However I feel that unless Edward dislikes the idea of being a Duke.. he would give his youngest brother a dukedom...

James may use his territorial styling of HRH when he reaches 18 however.

I was speaking about someone having a Royal Dukedom as distinct from not having one. There was an interesting discussion on this very topic on TRF (I think there?s a thread on it there) and those posters who study such precedence stated that a Prince who is given a Royal Dukedom is ?promoted?, as a Prince does not himself represent a territorial title as a Royal Duke does. They are just ?of?.Kent, Cambridge etc.

And why would Edward dislike being a Duke? Has he ever said so or even intimated that he would dislike being a Duke? He has a resigned sort of personality so I doubt he would make a terrible fuss about Charles not giving him the Dukedom. However, in a joint interview with Sophie he (they) described Philip calling on them and just stating with no forewarning that he would like them to have the Dukedom of Edinburgh eventually (when he and the Queen were dead.)

They were taken aback but it seems they were highly honoured and IMO delighted by the gesture. And if they hadn?t been then and were against it then surely Edward wouldn?t have taken on the Duke of Edinburgh Awards which have been so associated with his father.

A very recent rumour in some articles is that Charles, who is exceedingly touchy about being overshadowed, hasn?t liked the latest interviews given by Sophie, talking about her relationship with the Queen and with her late father in law, etc.

That in fact there is a slight feeling emanating from CH that the Wessexes are getting a bit too full of themselves and therefore the recent speculation about the title has been a shot across the bows so to speak. A ?get back and know your place? sort of gesture.

Amabel2 · July 15, 2021, 11:54:14 AM

I doubt if Edward was going to say that he didn't want a dukedom, or that he didn't like the idea of being D of Ed in particular.. but for all we know, he is not that pushed about it. And he may feel a bit uneasy about a title that IS associated with Alpha Male Philip. Or he may just not care that much one way or the other...its a possibility...
i dont think that James is going to go round announcing himself as HRH Prince James...
I think that the Wessexes or rather Sophie have been rather prominent lately, but until Charles is actually king we dont know what he'll do regarding that title...

PrincessOfPeace · July 15, 2021, 12:28:26 PM

Regarding DoE title:

A spokesperson for Prince Charles: "All stories of this nature are speculation and no final decisions have been taken, It would be inappropriate and disrespectful to the Queen to comment on matters of accession".

Interesting it's not a denial but "no final decision has been made".

I think there will be changes in the next reign including for Archie and Lili.

Curryong · July 15, 2021, 01:27:29 PM

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on July 15, 2021, 12:28:26 PM
Regarding DoE title:

A spokesperson for Prince Charles: "All stories of this nature are speculation and no final decisions have been taken, It would be inappropriate and disrespectful to the Queen to comment on matters of accession".

Interesting it's not a denial but "no final decision has been made".

I think there will be changes in the next reign including for Archie and Lili.

Whatever decisions Charles makes in the future I don?t read anything more into that CH statement than was said. In other words that no decisions have been made (and won?t be until after Charles comes to the throne as he can?t pass on anything at the moment.) And of course no decision or statement is going to be made while the Queen lives. It would be disrespectful for Charles to state that he intends to do this, that and the other while his mother is still monarch.

And it?s Charles?s younger brother?s position (and his heir Viscount Severn) we?re discussing here, not Archie (who will get a Dukedom anyway in his lifetime), Lili (a royal Duke?s daughter) or Charlotte, Louis, or any other future spares who may or may not be getting royal Dukedoms.

PrincessOfPeace · July 15, 2021, 02:00:50 PM

You could argue a decision was made back in the 90s when a statement was released that everyone was in agreement regarding the DoE title: It was to go to Edward.

In now saying no decision has been made seems to me to be leaving room for Edward not to receive it.

Charlotte and Louis are in a totally different situation than Archie or Lili. They're already Prince/ss and their destiny will be left to William as the future King. I think Harry's children will see a change during the next reign in that they won't be HRH and Prince/ss.

Curryong · July 15, 2021, 02:15:43 PM

Not much use having stylings like HRH or Prince/Princess if you are going to be completely private citizens and study for careers out of the royal circle. That looks as if it?s likely to be James and Louise?s future and indeed Archie?s (even after he becomes Duke) Lily?s, Charlotte?s and Louis?s and all future spares.

If the BRF are going to be slimmed down to monarch and heir and wives in the future then that means everybody not occupying those positions, not just Harry and Meghan?s children. And it will go on to affect any children of George?s besides the heir, and so on.

Amabel2 · July 15, 2021, 02:21:03 PM

There's no problem in people having HRH, and leading an ordinary fairly private life. Beatrice and Eugenie both have led working lives, doing a bit of charity work..
I dont think that Charles or William would want to take away HRHs from Charlotte and Louis... they can lead normal lives, not use their titles in private working life...

PrincessOfPeace · July 15, 2021, 02:31:02 PM

Decisions about Charlotte and Louis won't be made until William is King. They will be the monarch's children. Maybe they will work for William.

Archie and Lili are only ever going to be grandchildren of the monarch that live in America with non-working royal parents.

Curryong · July 15, 2021, 02:50:10 PM

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on July 15, 2021, 02:31:02 PM
Decisions about Charlotte and Louis won't be made until William is King. They will be the monarch's children. Maybe they will work for William.

Archie and Lili are only ever going to be grandchildren of the monarch that live in America with non-working royal parents.

None of us have a crystal ball into what the future might bring. Maybe Charlotte and Louis will work for William, and maybe they will be private citizens. There may be a republic by William?s reign, and IMO that will be a high likelihood for George.
Harry will be a King?s son much sooner than any of William?s children will, and he and his family may well spend time in Britain in Charles?s reign, for all anybody knows. In fact, like other royals have done Archie and Lili may well opt to live and work in London as adults.

Amabel2 · July 15, 2021, 02:55:11 PM

I don't think it is at all likely that he'll spend much time in the UK during Charles' reign unless there is an amazing change. As things are, he's attacked his father most, so unless he gets over that, what is he going to do in England? His children may feel differently but they are going to be raised as wealthy Americans, and probably would not want to be that involved with the British royal family.
If the monarchy does go down in Charles' or Will's reign, I doubt if it will go with bad feeling and the royals having to live in exile.. so probably they'll just lead quiet lives using their own names....

wannable · July 21, 2021, 10:40:23 PM

IF the Duke of Edinburgh title is given to Edward by Charles, automatically:

Quote
Viscount Severn would become the Earl of Wessex when Edward becomes a duke.

Amabel2 · July 22, 2021, 07:10:55 AM

He wont become the earl of Wessex, but he iwll be able to use the title Earl of Wessex, as Edwards eldest son

Princess Cassandra · July 30, 2021, 01:59:15 PM

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on July 15, 2021, 12:28:26 PM
Regarding DoE title:

A spokesperson for Prince Charles: "All stories of this nature are speculation and no final decisions have been taken, It would be inappropriate and disrespectful to the Queen to comment on matters of accession".

Interesting it's not a denial but "no final decision has been made".

I think there will be changes in the next reign including for Archie and Lili.

You are very right to say that changes will be made. The POW is someone who is not always predictable and thinks outside the box. However, he is not a mean or unfeeling person, and IF the title is not passed along it will have been done after a lot of sensitive and caring discussion and be for the sake of the Monarchy. They all know there are republicans out there, and many young people are apathetic about the Monarchy and the RF. I wouldn't want to speculate about the Sussex children, but I'm sure you are right that changes will involve their status.

PrincessOfPeace · August 11, 2021, 11:19:08 PM

I really think there will be a wholesale change when Charles is King. Titles, residences, the whole thing.

The Telegraph reported some months ago Charles and William have been tasked with the 'future vision' going forward.

Amabel2 · August 12, 2021, 11:44:14 AM

Well we dont know. I think Charles will modernize in some respects... but I'm not sure if Camilla will be queen or if he'll take away HRHs from younger sons' children... I think he'll have a coronation.. but he may not use BUck P as a residence any more.. but will stay in Clarence...

Princess Cassandra · August 12, 2021, 01:56:34 PM

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on August 11, 2021, 11:19:08 PM
I really think there will be a wholesale change when Charles is King. Titles, residences, the whole thing.

The Telegraph reported some months ago Charles and William have been tasked with the 'future vision' going forward.

Wow, this really surprises me. If true, it means that HM wants to know how things are going to be after she is gone, and that doesn't sound like her at all. But I do think the handwriting is on the wall and some major changes are needed.

Amabel2 · August 12, 2021, 02:58:31 PM

why wouldn't the queen want to know that Charles and William have ideas for the future? The monarchy has been her life.. and Im sure she wants to think that it will go on after her and survive.. She is very conservative and there are probably changes that she half knows are necessary but does not feel able to make, herself...
Im sure she will want some assurance that even if Andrew never works again (for example) that Charles will keep him within the family.. and she's worried about Harry and how that's going to turn out...

Princess Cassandra · August 14, 2021, 06:18:41 PM

Quote from: Amabel2 on August 12, 2021, 02:58:31 PM
why wouldn't the queen want to know that Charles and William have ideas for the future? The monarchy has been her life.. and Im sure she wants to think that it will go on after her and survive.. She is very conservative and there are probably changes that she half knows are necessary but does not feel able to make, herself...
Im sure she will want some assurance that even if Andrew never works again (for example) that Charles will keep him within the family.. and she's worried about Harry and how that's going to turn out...

I was thinking that maybe she wouldn't want to know about those necessary changes.

LouisFerdinand · August 14, 2021, 09:55:23 PM

I believe Charles would not change the location of his coronation. Westminster Abbey has been the location of the sovereigns' coronations for centuries.