The Divorce Settlement

[royalanthropologist]

You all have interesting insights. I remember myself at 19. If I was put through a fraction of what Diana had to deal with being princess of wales,  I would probably have stripped naked in Trafalgar square :hehe: So granted, she carried herself very well in testing times.

One thing that really interests me is the Highgrove set. Apart from fatty Soames, they are hardly in the public eye yet we know a lot about many of Diana's friends. I think one author said that they took revenge on Diana for banning them from the Prince's life in the first few months. When the relationship got sour, they were only too happy to invite Camilla to go back to being a full time mistress. Apparently Diana once complained to Prince Phillip that at social gatherings in Highgrove Camilla was treated as the lady of the house and that hurt her a lot.

[Trudie]

The Highgrove set consisted of the Soames, Mountbattens, Van Cutsems , Westminsters they all enjoyed prior to Diana having influence on Charles and the social positions they aspired to as friends of the most senior royal after the Queen. They fell all over themselves trying to befriend Diana to keep their influence however Diana was more concentrated on creating her family and having Charles to herself that didn't endear her to them and once the spare was born and there was a whiff of problems they helped create the big divide between Charles and Diana to protect their influence and positions. Charles was so used to everyone yessing him that Diana being the first to say no is also a cause of tension something not to be tolerated. Diana knew that wasn't healthy and as a King his opinions on things were not to be known he would be told no by advisers. Though in hindsight Diana allowed the system to beat her down instead of rising above them she rebelled as only someone in their youth would do.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Wow, so much goodness to reply to @royalanthropologist  im sure ill miss some but will try to get it all in. :xmas21:

I agree that deep down Diana was an aristocrat, and wanted to do her duty and not hurt the family, but I agree, after going through so much turmoil the first couple years joining the family, and then being a great success with the public, to be met with jealousy from her husband and dismissal from her new family had to be daunting in the extreme, and I think was the wellspring for all the so called "rebellions" and "damage" some have claimed she did to the monarchy.

I agree with you on the Panorama interview, that Bashir manipulated her into making it as controversial as possible, also your take on them maybe convincing her she was about to be killed kind of meshes with her letter and events of 97, so im sure they didnt have to try hard to convince her. I remember hearing a recording of a phone convo with her where she says most of her work in 96/97 was just staying alive, so who knows what was going on.

She didnt say Charles would be a bad king, just that given his character, he would have a hard time adjusting to the role, and I think its true, given how the Queen is only recently letting him grab the wheel a bit, was a disservice to him. Although I still stand by my main argument that when given the chance to make a promise before the CoE, the country, etc. he reneged on it, so aside from the financial and power benefit of being king, how do we know he wont reneg on that one too?

Yes, it must have been terribly lonely all those xmas, the long stretches alone, etc. desperately wanting a reconciliation that was never to happen, just breaks my heart. Yes she should have relied on he mum, although she did patch things up with Raine in the last few years on her life, but in the FLOTUS? and another thread I discuss at great length that one of the interesting questions is how despite having a family so close to the royals and family members who could have advised her (heck Sarah dated Charles for goodness sakes) but it seems she was let to fall into the trap by her family.

I also was intrigued by the parts in the divorce that she couldnt earn an income or criticize the royals in the press, I dont doubt them, but was wondering if you knew of a book or site where I could read more on them? I'd love to learn what her lawyers thought process was in agreeing to them, etc. I know there was a non disclosure agreement they both had regarding the divorce terms, but I didnt know she was restricted in earning or speaking about non divorce terms regarding the royals.

As for Camilla, I see what your thought process there, even PP wrote Diana saying Charles must be out of his mind that he couldnt imagine anyone choosing someone else over her, or as Diana said she found it odd that she was losing to someone who had dandruff, bad teeth and smoked. Like much in the story of the three of them, theres so much irony, misunderstandings and such. Charles' attraction to Camilla wasnt so much for her physical beauty, it was more her sexual prowess, and her ability to be totally subservient to him, to be his mother, nurse, maid, etc. all in one.

Charles didnt have the capacity to be affectionate or loving in a giving, nurturing way, and thats what Diana needed and wanted. She wanted a wife/husband relationship, and Charles wanted a wife to be more like a member of his staff, falling in to serve his needs without putting demands on him, and that was Camillas "ace in the hole".

Of course the tragically ironic thing is that if ever there was a loveable, sweet person that would make you drop everything to make sure she was alright and looked after, it was Diana. Yes she was beautiful, but theres lots of beautiful women out there, that dont make a person feel like that, it was something about her, like her personality shone though her face more than other ppl or something. So here was someone that desperatly needed something, and had the ability to make millions of men clamor to give that to her, yet she always seemed to find the man who wouldnt give that to her.

I do however have to tip my cap at Camilla ability to "play the game" here was someone from the county set, totally unsuitable to be married to the PoW, had a "past" according to 1970s rules, and had the face you wouldnt want on a stamp or coin, yet she managed to hang on till the end. I dont like that she did that, mind you, in case the other members think im condoning her actions, i dont. But im sure historians will dig into the question of how it all occurred given that on the surface the wife had all the "advantages".

Yes the media was relentless in tearing down Diana, I came across this article from 1992 https://princessdianabookboutique.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/image19.jpeg
of course its tinged with bitter irony as she didnt get the change to grow old, but they talk about how in 92, when she was 31 that her stomach wasnt pancake thin in a bikini anymore and she didnt have the ideal model measurements... :eyes: WTH, no wonder she talked about the quest for perfection leaving one gasping for breath.

LOL yes Charles the "black widow" well he write "black spider" memos so its fitting, I have my own ideas on that, but yes, they did constantly try to make Diana look mad in the press. Im sure Camilla, after having to hang in for so long, and having her first marriage turned to scorched earth by Charles outing her, was determined to make sure Charles stuck to just her. I remember reading about how she made herself cash poor to make Charles come to her aid paying for her house, staff, security and such, at one point she and a friend had to hide in the house from the fishmonger at the door as she hadnt paid him. So im sure she nips any potential suitors in the bud. It may have been that Charles wanted to marry Tiggy to look after the boys and still see Camilla or others, although the "accident" she had suggests maybe he wanted her out of the picture for the above reason but it got botched.

A lot of the criticism of CPB focused on her looks and her breaking up of the marriage. I  for one refused to believe that she is the devil incarnate or that she is the only person who was responsible for the C&D marriage and its fall out. For example I find it offensive that some people think Charles can get his crown but she is not to be given a title despite being married to him and to all intents a co-conspirator in that saga.

Some would have us believe that Camilla selected Diana and then proceeded to kick her out when she would not play ball. I think that is a very simplistic analysis of events. Yes Diana was 19 but she was not some country girl who had no knowledge about royal life or Charles' proclivities. As for Charles he is a grown man, not some toy that Camilla could bend to her will. The entire establishment knew what was happening. Even the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury at the time later confessed that he knew it was an arranged marriage. They were all in on the game. Diana just thought that her youth, beauty, status as an official wife and charm would get rid of her rival. In the end when she saw that it was not going to work out she lashed out at her husband. The press then decided that Camilla has to be the evil witch.

I think none of the characters are perfect....indeed none of us are. To say that it is Camilla and Camilla alone to blame does not sit right with me. That is why I stand up for her (despite receiving lots of negative feedback for it). LOL

Have to disagree a bit here, TBH I dont think Charles should get his crown, but the system is slanted towards him getting it, the CoE and the govt just doesnt have the stomach to boot him out like they did with the Duke of Windsor. But Camilla, they treat a bit different in that the whole marriage kind of stunk in that it was a civil ceremony, etc. so I think they look at it as "well Charles was and still is the first born in line to the throne, but Camilla is viewed as stepping into the shoes of a dead women that she herself partly drove from the marriage", so thats why they pushed for her to not have the Queen Consort title, or use the Princess of Wales title, even things like wearing the lovers knot tiara. It would have been different if he met Camilla after he divorced Diana, I think.

Camilla and Kanga did pick out Diana from a list of girls as he went trough most of them, Camilla even called her "the mouse". I think that Camilla and Kanga were interested in a wife that wouldnt be a problem as they battled for the top job as Charles top mistress, they used their age, experience and closeness to Charles to put it in action.

Diana I think did want to marry Charles from her teens and I think she tried to put herself in his way, she visited Jane at Balmoral hoping to run into him about 6 months before the Depasse's BBQ, she ran into the Queen. She held on to her purity, knowing it would be of value for what was to come. She might have known that Charles was getting older and had fewer options, but I think she was also naive, living in that Barbara Cartland world of romantic ideals.

As for the Archbishop, if he said that pre divorce id be more inclined to believe him, but thats one of the maddeningly interesting thing about the situation, there was so much contrast in Diana and even the others actions. She could appear both blissfully ignorant and at the same time steely and calculating. Charles valet, Stephen Barry said he never met someone as determined and tricky as Diana.

But I surmise that Diana was more innocent than calculating due to the fact that if she'd wanted Charles for purely mercenary reasons, shed have quietly put up with his affairs, sat back, collected the royal lifestyle and had quiet affairs herself. The fact that she lashed out and fought so hard leads me to believe she wanted a "real" marriage with Charles. True, by the wedding day she knew she was trapped, as he felt too, as she started to learn what the real hold Camilla had on him. By that time "her face was on the tea towels" so backing out wasnt an option, I think she believed she could love him enough to make him turn her way.

Yes, none of the actors are perfect, and all share some blame, I think if its seen that Camilla gets it worse than Charles its cause shes the newcomer coming into the RF, ppl forget Charles also got lots of bad press over it during the years, they even had to get Will and Harry to walk by Dianas coffin as they feared Charles would be killed otherwise. But I think given their age and experience, C&C&K have a bigger burden of the blame, also Dianas family  and friends own some of the blame for not teaching her about marriage a lot better.

As for Charles friends undermining the marriage, yes they had a big role in it, not only bringing Camilla back into his life, but hiding the affair, giving safe houses, etc. briefing the press against Diana. I thought it was unfair they used "Fatty" Soames to defend Charles on the eve of the Panorama video, as he had an axe to grind with Diana over her siding with his wife, Catherine after she left him on that ill fated Klosters trip.

Wow thats a lot, love your very intersting posts @royalanthropologist

[royalanthropologist]

Thanks Duch Luver. The Diana story is so fascinating because she just shined the eyes into the shadowy world of royalty. I admit I was skeptical until the day she touched that dying AIDS patient. I told my mum then: "this girl is special".

At first we all thought she was deluded  when she complained about her life and yet the things she said were later proved to be true. I have been reading "The Real Diana" by Lady Colin which is my source for the divorce terms. The author seems to hate Diana so you must pick and choose carefully what to pick from the book. However she did give some insight into the divorce settlement.

Diana started off with 35 million because she had already been warned by Armstrong (Margaret's ex) and Phillips (Anne's Ex) that they were going to stitch her up if she tried to be reasonable. In truth she knew they were going to offer much less. At first she wanted to stay in Clarence House if and when QM died (perfectly reasonable request in my view, given the hostility at KP from Margaret). Charles was outraged and refused. She panicked mid-proceedings and released a statement that she had agreed to a divorce. They responded with a chilly statement that nothing was agreed. Charles then inserted a clause that Diana was barred from discussing her life with the royal family again. The queen in her more spiteful moods made an order in council barring stripping her of the HRH.

In the end Diana was just exhausted. To cling to the marriage was just humiliating and I think she could not take any more. Sadly even to the very end she had this dream that her prince would wake up from the bad dream and come back to her. He never did and she died alone. Once access to her children was agreed, I think she just gave up on the actual terms of the divorce and decided to start a new life. IMO Diana never looked more beautiful or more confident than in the last 11 months of her life. The Testino portraits were startling, even by today's standards. The Highgrove party for Camilla was a blow but she would be inhuman if it did not hurt. Otherwise she was getting it together.

I wish she had met someone like Bill Gates. They would have fitted together and I think she would have been happy to be doing charity work despite the loss of title. I heard speculation that the establishment was angry that she was going out with Dodi because he was a foreign Muslim but in my view they had no  moral standing to judge her. After all it was the establishment which spat her out. As far as I was concerned she was a free woman after 1986 and could date anyone who took her fancy.
Double post auto-merged: December 30, 2016, 07:55:31 PM

I would like people to look at the whole marriage and divorce in a different context. Imagine Princess Anne, Beatrice or Eugene was married in a foreign country at 19 then went through everything that Diana endured. Would the queen be so calm or tolerant or quiet? Would she attend a church service ignoring the dead? Would she accept the loss of title for her daughter/granddaughter or even a public mistress?  I bet there would be a diplomatic incident about the saga. That tells you in a nutshell that the royal family was not as fair to Diana as they would like the world to believe. It was a case of triple standards. Diana was an outsider to them and they never really took her on as a daughter. Unfortunately all that Johnny Spencer could add to the debate was that his daughter was "good breeding stock", a horrendous statement in light of what happened later on.

[sandy]

I don't see Lady Campbell as a reliable source. I doubt DIana would even have thought of staying in Clarence House. For one thing I don't think it had happy memories for Diana since the QM loathed her and she most likely preferred KP. And waiting for the QM to pass on would not have been practical. How would Diana know when the QM would pass on and where would she stay before that. I am not sure Diana had dealings with Mark Phillips and Armstrong Jones. She seemed to be comparing notes with divorcee Fergie.

I don't think Diana wanted Charles back. Ever. She had moved on. And she did not die alone. Those dreams of reconciliation according to Diana ended ca. 1989.

You all have interesting insights. I remember myself at 19. If I was put through a fraction of what Diana had to deal with being princess of wales,  I would probably have stripped naked in Trafalgar square :hehe: So granted, she carried herself very well in testing times.

One thing that really interests me is the Highgrove set. Apart from fatty Soames, they are hardly in the public eye yet we know a lot about many of Diana's friends. I think one author said that they took revenge on Diana for banning them from the Prince's life in the first few months. When the relationship got sour, they were only too happy to invite Camilla to go back to being a full time mistress. Apparently Diana once complained to Prince Phillip that at social gatherings in Highgrove Camilla was treated as the lady of the house and that hurt her a lot.

Actually Camilla played hostess for Charles and his friends at Highgrove while Diana was away. None of Charles' family went to these "get togethers."

[Trudie]

I never saw Lady Colin Campbell as a source at all. I highly doubt she associated at all with Diana as Diana was always photographed out with her friends having lunch, vacations etc. Her only association is that title and the name Campbell which Queen Victoria's daughter Louise was Duchess of Argyll and childless so she was a distant relation. I highly doubt she was privy to the divorce details and Diana's real friends never disclosed what they discussed relating to the divorce.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Yes that was a special moment @royalanthropologist its interesting how "commonplace" HIV and AIDS is thought of today compared to back then, and she had a lot to do with that. Your reaction kind of reminds me of my mom when we met her back in 83, she was skeptical of her a bit and how head over heels I was for her, but after she talked to me she noticed my mom was tanned and the weather had been poor so she asked her how she got so tan(no tanning booths back then^^) so she told her how we traveled from another province to see her, etc. Well my mom was bowled over the whole car ride back she couldnt stop talking about her.

While I couldnt have predicted shed do the AIDS thing, maybe its just me but it was like all the things she did and would do were being communicated subconsciously in her face. I remember reading about things she did in school (particularly when she would dance backwards with wheelchair bound patients instead of wheeling them around facing away from them like everyone else did) and  doing errands for her her nanny job's employer, because she didnt have a car and Diana did, and just thinking "of course she would" so it never surprised me when she did something special.

With royal books, its always tricky, you have authors that either like or dislike their subject, or you have authors that want to have access to certain ppl so that colors their writing, so its always hard to know what youre getting. I try to get as many sources that i can, and then look at it in reference to the  actions of the person. But thanks for that info id read part of her book, but I might pick it up just for the divorce info. The Clarence House thing sounds a bit off unless they had an interim place considered after the boys turned 18 and QM died, unless if they were going to let her stay at KP until that happened.

I agree with a lot of what youre saying about the divorce, her friend James Colthurst asked her if Charles came on bended knee would she take him back after everything, she thought about it and said yes, so I think to the end she loved Charles. Although she did love Hasnat, Dodi was just a distraction.

She did look much more confident in the last year of her life, idk what you mean about the Testino pictures being startling? Those close up with those amazing eyes certainly rekindled the old fires when I saw them, so lovely you could get lost in them all day....

Yes the highgrove party was tough for her, a sort of offical driving out of that place that was supposed to be a happy marital home, but she booted Camilla from the front page with some well timed cleavage shots by the paps of her in her leopard print bathing suit.

I like your view on the marriage and examples of if the RF members had got a taste of what they doled out to Diana, I also, despite the popular opinion also hold the Spencer family to task about their role in the whole business as well. It would have been nice if she'd have met someone to help her charity work take wings all over the world. While the Gates Foundation is too big on population control and vaccines for my taste, I think I get what you're meaning.

More good stuff,  :goodpost:

[sandy]

Diana pretty much gave up on Charles according to various sources and Diana herself in 1989. She proposed she and Charles get back together and have a third child in 1989. Charles turned her down. There is no record, except some hearsay, of Diana wanting Charles back after that. Diana IMO burned her bridges with the MOrton book and that was that. If she had wanted Charles she could have stayed in the facade of the marriage but  Charles was getting to be more and more cold and put her down even in public. I think she fell in love with Khan and did not want Charles back. She also had that letter about Charles wanting to "stage" an accident. That is not what a woman hoping for a reconciliation would write. I think Lady COlin Campbell makes wild claims to sell her books including that the Queen Mum was the result of a liaison between her biological father and a cook. Diana knew darn well that it was over with Charles and was no masochist who would even respond to a "begging for her to come back" after 1989. Maybe 1989 or earlier but not after that. Dodi and Diana's relationship was just starting so it may or may not have been lasting. I think she cared for Charles as the father of her children but that was that. I don't think she pined for the man after the way he treated her. Plus right before she died he had the lavish 50th birthday party for Camilla so Charles clearly moved on and so did Diana. 

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

The "heresy" was Andrew Morton on video recalling a conversation James Colthurst had with Diana which had to be at least in the early 90s, maybe later, not Colin Campbell. Also Flecha(sp) De Lima and Lana Marks said she loved Charles. Diana's actions during the 50th bday party clearly show she hadnt moved on from either Charles or Hasnat trying to make them jealous, but was exactly the kind of gesture that turned them both away.

She could love more than one at a time as she mentioned Barry back in the early 80s (physical or not, she did have amorous feelings in her heart at least for him)

As for Dodi, her friend Baroness Jay said "we've all had our Dodi Fayed's"

As for the QM, shes not the only one to make those assertions, check out some of Chris Everet's documentaries on youtube about the history of the royals.

[royalanthropologist]

It is very hard to move on from a marriage, no matter how traumatic. You always think: "I could have done this better or should have done this or should have seen this coming." It would not surprise me that Diana went through these phases. A classic example was her reaction to the Highgrove Party. Even Charles would have gone through the same emotions, particularly when he realized she was dead for good. A marriage is rarely completely good or completely bad. There will be some happy moments here and there. To me it seems that if Diana was given a choice, she would have wanted a happy marriage with a loving husband. That is what she had always dreamed off. Everything else was just a poor second. Also think of the parable of sour grapes. When we want something and it is snatched from us, we may react by saying :"Oh I never really wanted it". That is just being human.
Double post auto-merged: December 31, 2016, 05:18:03 AM

As for royal biographers, I am of the Duch Luver school of throught on this one. Different writers have different takes on famous people. Some were secretly in love with Diana (Think Paul Burrell) while others had the same feelings for Charles (think Penny Junor). The truth lies somewhere in between. You have to read so many different angles before you get a feeling of who the person is. It is a shame Diana was effectively gagged by her divorce because she naturally liked sharing her own personality. If she was given a chance to say her own words without people reading things into them, I think we would get the true measure of the woman. On balance she was a good girl despite all the nasty stuff that is written. Had Charles been less indecisive, weak, selfish and entitled; they might have made something of their marriage but alas we are who we are.

[sandy]

Diana took about 10 years to really move on. She put up with the sham for about 10 years. It was not a real marriage because Charles left her bed and made it plain he preferred Camilla (and Camilla even played hostess usurping Diana's place at Highgrove) and refused her more children. She even thought after she moved on that Charles would plan a car accident to get her out of the way. That does not scream undying love for Charles. Morton worked with Colthurst and nowhere in the MOrton tapes or the Settelen tapes did Diana want CHarles back.  She said she had loved her husband and even in the confrontation with Camilla she did say she wanted her husband. But after the abuse, Diana wanted a real marriage and love not the sham.  There were very few 'happy moments' left especially when Charles put her down in public. Diana also saw Charles taunt Diana by making it seem that he and the boys did not need her when he hired TIggy as the "substitute mother" and Tiggy mouthed off about Diana to the media about her not being a "good mother." I think Diana realized how vindictive and petty Charles is. Diana was not the classic abused wife who returned to her abuser. She was healthy in that she wanted to move on.

[TLLK]

The "heresy" was Andrew Morton on video recalling a conversation James Colthurst had with Diana which had to be at least in the early 90s, maybe later, not Colin Campbell. Also Flecha(sp) De Lima and Lana Marks said she loved Charles. Diana's actions during the 50th bday party clearly show she hadnt moved on from either Charles or Hasnat trying to make them jealous, but was exactly the kind of gesture that turned them both away.

She could love more than one at a time as she mentioned Barry back in the early 80s (physical or not, she did have amorous feelings in her heart at least for him)

As for Dodi, her friend Baroness Jay said "we've all had our Dodi Fayed's"

As for the QM, shes not the only one to make those assertions, check out some of Chris Everet's documentaries on youtube about the history of the royals.

@Duch_Luver_4ever - I agree. If given the chance I  do believe that she would have returned to Charles had he shown interest in reviving their marriage.

[sandy]

I think 1989 and before, maybe 1990. But things went too far for her to go back into the marriage if he asked her to--he had no intention of giving up Camilla for one thing and was openly contemptuous of her.. Andrew Morton's "recalling" a conversation is not from Diana herself. So it is hearsay. Youtube documentaries do not mean the Queen Mum was illegitimate. I read the Shawcross authorized biography based on the Queen Mum's own correspondence and that is the definitive source not the gossip fest by Campbell. I just need to see the wedding photos of the the DUke and Duchess of York and the QM's parents to see a clear resemblance to her mother.

[Trudie]

The "heresy" was Andrew Morton on video recalling a conversation James Colthurst had with Diana which had to be at least in the early 90s, maybe later, not Colin Campbell. Also Flecha(sp) De Lima and Lana Marks said she loved Charles. Diana's actions during the 50th bday party clearly show she hadnt moved on from either Charles or Hasnat trying to make them jealous, but was exactly the kind of gesture that turned them both away.

She could love more than one at a time as she mentioned Barry back in the early 80s (physical or not, she did have amorous feelings in her heart at least for him)

As for Dodi, her friend Baroness Jay said "we've all had our Dodi Fayed's"

As for the QM, shes not the only one to make those assertions, check out some of Chris Everet's documentaries on youtube about the history of the royals.

Loving Charles and wanting to sustain a broken marriage are two separate things. Diana wanted out once her offer of reconciliation were met with scorn. It took her a while but Morton was her way out.

[SophieChloe]

^ And good for her.  Keeping schtum was no longer an option. 

Are there any members on here that would have tolerated her situation? 

[Trudie]

I certainly would not I was in a similiar situation I kicked his butt to the curb. Adultery is never acceptable but then neither is domestic abuse mental or physical

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

I agree @royalanthropologist  there would have been "what ifs" on both sides, alberit more on Diana's side as she was more warm and feeling than Charles is, also she approached the marriage with more romantic intentions, so there was probably the feeling of more being lost. If Charles had been different he'd have seen the jackpot he had by his side, has to be one of the biggest one mans trash is another mans treasure in history, to not see or be moved by the one thing that was her greatest strength is truly mind boggling, I remember Chris DeBurg saying that "you just wanted to give her a hug, but of course you couldnt".

As for her words, its a shame she didnt give more interviews, and while the Spencer family didnt like it, I'm very grateful the Settlin tapes were released, they give us a wonderful insight to her, and if nothing else, its very nice to hear her voice, see her talk, hear her laugh, etc. In the beginning she was so often seen and not heard, it was a welcome change.

As to the Morton-Colthurst-Diana convo, theres a difference between wanting something in the abstract, knowing deep down its not going to happen. Considering the whole book was Colthurst ferrying Dianas words to Morton, by the logic taken about the convo, youd have to throw out most of her book then.

No one denies that Diana pretty much from her 30th b-day on was planning a way out of the RF because of the way the situation was, thats different than what Colthurst said, he didnt ask would you go back to the same marriage you had with Charles, he asked if Charles came on bended knee to ask her back, meaning that for him to do that hed have to want Diana, which he didnt then, and one can presume that Diana would have made dropping Camilla a condition of any such hypothetical reunion.

Why would you all think thats so preposterous? She was moving on because she had no choice, but theres a difference between how things ARE vs. when a friend asks you WHAT IF?

[Trudie]

Diana started moving on in 1987 when it became apparent the marriage was lost Charles having left her bed for Camilla's. That was when the press totally picked up on it all Diana wore her heart on her sleeve. As I said loving Charles and living in such a toxic environment his humiliating her having Camilla playing hostess in the marital home and public put downs she had no further interest in living a sham.

[sandy]

Diana went into the marriage because she did want a loving husband and family. She did not get a loving husband  with Charles. It is a moot point because no way would Charles ever have admitted to Diana that he was wrong and "begged her to come back.". His pals and sympathizers like Junor try to paint Charles as "noble" and Diana as "mad." I think that was Charles and Camilla's point of view.   Diana may have wished things had been different but that does not mean she would return to the sham marriage and the emotional abuse she got from him.

[PaulaB]

My take on the marriage is yes it was arranged but on Charles side. Diana was a immature naive 19 year old who believed in the romance writings of her step grandmother Barbara Cartland. That said Charles was running out of options to marry a protestant virgin Diana was perfect. Camilla IMO did manipulate the marriage to ensure Charles would always come back to her though Charles always had a self entitlement to have mistresses as per Mountbatten's instructions. Charles was and continues to be a very weak man he needs to have his ego stroked and no one to tell him no all the things Diana didn't do she treated him as a man not heir to the throne. Camilla wasn't alone in destroying the marriage their mutual friends of the Highgrove set were not happy to have their influence diminished by Diana and knew Camilla would not interfere as she enjoyed their pursuits as well.

To those who say Camilla is not fit to wear the crown I agree but neither does Charles both of them committed adultery and broke up each others marriages. The Duke of Windsor who was not married lost his crown as the woman he loved was divorced and he caused the breakup of her marriage to Simpson. None of the players in the Charles and Diana marriage were perfect however Charles and his friends were hardly discreet about the marriage leaking to the press about how difficult Diana could be or why. Post natal depression she's mad, morning sickness whats wrong with her? sorry but I place more of the blame on Charles then I do Diana.

Duke of Windsor was ineligible because of his pro nazis there is evidence to show Hitler's offered him the throne back if Germany won.  Not to mention he was in a plot to become regent for Elizabeth to keep power. 

[sandy]

The reason for the abdication was at the time that the Duke of Windsor abdicated because he wanted to marry the woman he loved who was considered unsuitable because she was twice divorced. It later came out about the Nazi sympathy. After the abdication and after his marriage to Mrs Simpson did he meet Hitler (and the photograph appears in all of their biographies). None of the stories about the Duke of Windsor plots re: Germany came out much later. At the time, the reason was that he could not marry Mrs Simpson and retain his status as King. The general public at the time knew nothing about the plot. The DUke of Windsor was sent to Nassau for a time to keep him away from Europe (serving as Governor-General).

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

DoW was also very popular with what today theyd call "populist" people, the coal miners, working class, etc. and the Tories were uncomfortable with him straying into political areas when visiting miners and such.

[Curryong]

The Duke of Windsor was indeed popular with all classes of British society. However, whether the Tories cared for him or not (and King Edward was pretty right-wing on some issues as well) when Edward visited one of the most poverty stricken areas of GB at that time, the Welsh mining valleys, it was November 1936. Yes, on seeing the dreadful poverty he irritated the Baldwin government by pronouncing 'Something must be done!'. However, he was almost at the end of his negotiations (if that's what they were) with the govt and had no intention of prodding the authorities into any measures to relieve the poverty or of remaining on the throne to bring influence to bear. By December he was gone.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

"(and King Edward was pretty right-wing on some issues as well)" I love this line @Curryong ....He sure liked his National Socialism on the right wing side  :lol: :teehee: :lol:

[royalanthropologist]

To be honest I can't quite work out Edward VII. He gave up a throne for a woman who was not nearly as smitten with him. On one hand the ordinary people liked him but he ended up being pushed out. If he was a Nazi sympathizer then the family was well rid of him. Later his life because a meaningless series of fashion statements. What a waste????