Royal Insight Forum

For anyone interested, on Monday at 9 pm, BBC2, there is the first of two films about George V and Queen Mary  :nod:

The Royals Who Rescued The Monarchy (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b019fx8y)

It was a very interesting look into the past hope all of you enjoyed it somewhat. I will be presenting a new Historical Fact programme later this year which will include a lot of information previously unheard about Monarchy of past.

King George V paid tribute at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier at the Arc de Triomphe in Paris in 1925. He left a wreath bearing an inscription "From George V, to the Unknown Soldier".     
     

Queen Mary joined in with the war effort of the Second World War. She inspected the Ship's Company in the West Country in 1941.

Mary had been brought up to believe that the position of Queen was the highest to which she could aspire.

King George V took a great interest in a collecting of stamps when he was only thirteen years old. He did his first purchases at Pembertone and Charles Phillips.

Yes, George's philately hobby lasted through his life and eventually his huge stamp collection became extremely valuable. He spent quite a bit on it though.

Who inherited the stamp collection of King George V?

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on March 09, 2018, 07:39:20 PM
Who inherited the stamp collection of King George V?

It's gone by inheritance through the Monarchs, and the Queen has it now, though no-one since has had his keen interest in philately. There's a courtier who looks after the Royal stamp Collection and on occasion adds to it, with special issue Commonwealth stamps for example. The Collection is probably priceless. I believe it was one of the artefacts that the new King George VI had to buy from Edward VIII after the Abdication.
King George V was inspired to start collecting stamps as a boy by his uncle Affie, (Alfred Duke of Edinburgh) who had a small collection. When Affie began of course, stamps themselves were quite a new phenomenon.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on February 10, 2018, 11:53:43 PM
Mary had been brought up to believe that the position of Queen was the highest to which she could aspire.

Obviusly it was....She could not be queen regnant, but she could aspire to be queen consort....

Sounds a bit like Queen Silvia of Sweden!  :P

On May 26, 1947, Queen Mary celebrated her eightieth birthday.   
Queen Mary's Eightieth Birthday - 1947 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPhLmacHUXE)   
:bday2: :bday2: :bdaycake: :vday5: :vday5:

Queen Mary at an aircraft factory   
King George V and Queen Mary of Great Britain at an aircraft factory Stock Photo: 69822799 - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-king-george-v-and-queen-mary-of-great-britain-at-an-aircraft-factory-69822799.html)

On his Coronation Day, King George V wrote in his diary: 'The Service in the Abbey was most beautiful but it was a terrible ordeal.'   
How could a wonderful Coronation be terrible?

Because George V was a quite shy and retiring sort of man under all his quarter-deck bluster and he hated being the centre of attention throughout the ceremony. (There were no TV or film cameras in those days or he would have regarded it as twice as bad.) I don't know any sovereign of Great Britain in the modern era who did love all the fuss and attention, actually. Perhaps George IV.

^^^Imagine Prinny with his own Instagram account!!! :eyes: :o :wacko:

I shouldn't think that George IV greatly enjoyed his coronation with all the drama with Caroline

George knew Caroline would probably turn up and he had the Abbey doors closed against her. She banged on them and then went away. I doubt George gave her a single thought after that. A couple of bangs on a door is neither here nor there and he had the situation under his control. He had taken enormous pleasure in planning each detail of his Coronation, including his costume and jewellery and I think he did enjoy it.

Caroline was losing some of her popularity with the London mob at that stage anyway. Reports of her travels all over Europe had trickled down and she was half forgotten anyway. The crowd outside the Abbey seemed to be in a good mood. A few shouted 'Go it, old gal' at her efforts, but if they had been angry at the King on that day they could have stormed the place. It was the out of control banquet after the ceremony that proved to be the most trouble. Many of the peers and other dignitaries were drunk and behaved like pigs. It's notable that this was the last banquet of that sort ever held.

Egotisitical as George was, I doubt if he was quite blas? about the Caroline situation....  He was lucky that Caroline did lose her popularity.. and the crowds were by then more amused by the ridiculous situation than ready to support her. 

James Pope-Hennesy wrote the authorised biography of Queen Mary in the 1950s. Before he proceeded he conducted masses of interviews with people, including foreign royals, who had known Queen Mary (some all her life) or who had served her. These interviews have been gathered into a fascinating book, 'The Quest for Queen Mary', which was published last year.

I've been reading it and enjoying it very much. It's full of fascinating titbits. Many people who were her social equals said she was full of fun in private, and even naughty as a child. However her staff said she could be inconsiderate, as most royals are.  Her father, the Duke of Teck was extremely volatile and would scream at his family, threatening to thrash his sons a lot. He was regarded as odd.

Grosvenor Hood was the only true love of Queen Mary's life she told Margaret Wyndham, one of her ladies in waiting. She was very reticent about her private life usually, but she told Miss Wyndham this in a car, as she felt secure away from servants' listening ears when she was travelling by motor car. That love affair was before the engagement to Eddy, obviously. He was an army officer and later Viscount Hood. She said the King wasn't in love with her when they married but was so later.

As Mary aged she wore wigs, a gold one at night and silver during the day. During WW2, which she spent at Badminton, the only two women who could dress her two wigs were both ill. So she wrapped a headscarf around the wig she was wearing and kept it on for three days!

Did it give any reason why she didn't marry this man?  Because she wanted a royal husband,not an aristocrat?  or didn't he ask?  GIven that the Tecks were pretty poor, and not that grand, I would have said that if this man was comfortblly off, it would have been an OK match for her. But of course it has been said that Mary was embararased by her mother, their debts and her status as springing from a morganatic line and maybe she was determined to get a real prince as a husband?

Id just got to the part where Pope-Hennessy had interviewed Margaret Wyndham when I wrote that down here about her telling PH that it was Hood she was in love with. Then, blow me down, in the next chapter (it is a very long book) Miss Wyndham writes to him and tells him that she misremembered and it was John Hopetoun she was in love with, not Hood!)

The trouble is that a lot of the people he interviewed are very old and she obviously had a bad memory for names. (Queen Mary liked being read to and she used to object to Margaret Wyndham's voice being weak and giving out after several hours. She used to have to suck lozenges in an effort to save it!)

He interviewed the sister of the 7th Earl of Hopetoun (a Scottish peer) early in the book. The Earl's parents were great friends of the Duke and Duchess of Teck and Mary and her brothers had known the family all their lives. The Duke and Duchess and their family used to go up to the Hopetoun family  seat in Scotland for TWO MONTHS at a time to mooch off them er stay with the family.

The sister had strong memories of Mary as a child (she was around the same age) and her parents, the Duchess was a warm hearted and delightful person but, like everyone who remembered him, she spoke of the Duke as being very abrupt, eccentric and rude. He brought all the family and guests, children AND adults, gifts of balloons, and then told the children off for being noisy when they played with them! The Duchess would say 'Franz! Franz!' and sometimes he would be quiet, sometimes not.

The sister didn't tell Pope Hennessy about any romantic attachments, it  was only Miss Wyndham who heard that from the Queen's own lips years later. Hopetoun had quite a distinguished career. He became our first Governor General here in Australia in the early 1900s. He was older than Mary by about seven years and married in 1886 when Mary was 19. I would guess that money was the issue but Miss Wyndham didn't ask. (She said she never probed about anything because Mary would then shut up.)

POpe-H visited Sandringham, where Eddy died, describing as a place with a horrible atmosphere. Eddy's bedroom was very small and PH couldn't imagine how 14 people could have crammed into it for the death scene. Prince Charles had lessons as a little boy in the room next door, where Queen Alexandra and her daughter Victoria would sit on dark nights. Hennessy said that part of the house was sinister (and I have heard that before, myself.)

Later PH goes to stay with the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester at their country home. He liked them, but the Duke seems to have been very exccentric, with a laugh like a pig's squeal. He occupied Eddy's room after the King and Queen moved into Sandringham after Queen A's death. He told PH that even the soap Eddy used was still there and everything had to be cleared out.

Quote from: Curryong on September 30, 2018, 05:05:18 AM
James Pope-Hennesy wrote the authorised biography of Queen Mary in the 1950s. Before he proceeded he conducted masses of interviews with people, including foreign royals, who had known Queen Mary (some all her life) or who had served her. These interviews have been gathered into a fascinating book, 'The Quest for Queen Mary', which was published last year.

I've been reading it and enjoying it very much. It's full of fascinating titbits. Many people who were her social equals said she was full of fun in private, and even naughty as a child. However her staff said she could be inconsiderate, as most royals are.  Her father, the Duke of Teck was extremely volatile and would scream at his family, threatening to thrash his sons a lot. He was regarded as odd.

Grosvenor Hood was the only true love of Queen Mary's life she told Margaret Wyndham, one of her ladies in waiting. She was very reticent about her private life usually, but she told Miss Wyndham this in a car, as she felt secure away from servants' listening ears when she was travelling by motor car. That love affair was before the engagement to Eddy, obviously. He was an army officer and later Viscount Hood. She said the King wasn't in love with her when they married but was so later.

As Mary aged she wore wigs, a gold one at night and silver during the day. During WW2, which she spent at Badminton, the only two women who could dress her two wigs were both ill. So she wrapped a headscarf around the wig she was wearing and kept it on for three days!

Fascinating anecdotes about a woman that is typically viewed as cold and aloof. I would love to have seen a photo of her when she was laughing as most of her portraits are of a woman who could seem serene or stern.

Gold wig and a silver wig...she must have know which would be more flattering depending on the light source.

Queen Mary attended the premiere of The Lavender Hill Mob on June 28th, 1951. She wore the Diamond Bandeau Tiara which Meghan wore on her wedding day in 2018.   
Queen Mary arriving at the Odeon cinema, Marble Arch for the premiere... News Photo | Getty Images (http://www.gettyimages.com/license/962198400)

Yes, extraordinary really that she and the QM wore tiaras on all gala occasions including film premieres. As a lover of Royal jewellery and big occasions I regret in a way that this no longer occurs. The times are very different though.

Quote from: Curryong on September 30, 2018, 01:53:47 PM
Id
The sister didn't tell Pope Hennessy about any romantic attachments, it  was only Miss Wyndham who heard that from the Queen's own lips years later. Hopetoun had quite a distinguished career. He became our first Governor General here in Australia in the early 1900s. He was older than Mary by about seven years and married in 1886 when Mary was 19. I would guess that money was the issue but Miss Wyndham didn't ask. (She said she never probed about anything because Mary would then shut up.)

Late

was it that Mary had no money or he hadn't got any?

Queen Mary visited a Welsh mine.   
Queen Mary of Great Britain visits a Welsh mine Stock Photo: 68548148 - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-queen-mary-of-great-britain-visits-a-welsh-mine-68548148.html)   

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George V visited Melbourne in 1901 with his wife Mary, when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall and York to open the first federal parliament of Australia.

Queen Mary opened the new Rachel McMillan Training College for Children.     
Her Majesty The Queen (1930) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzMnOUCHRzU)

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on December 17, 2016, 09:37:31 PM
King George V paid tribute at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier at the Arc de Triomphe in Paris in 1925. He left a wreath bearing an inscription "From George V, to the Unknown Soldier".     
     

:xmas4: :xmas4: :xmas4: :xmas4: :xmas4:

It would be interesting to know what George's private thoughts were when he laid the wreath. It was only eleven years before that Archduke Francis Ferdinand was shot and the War began.

Why would George V be anything other than terribly sad when he laid the wreath? The First World War produced horrendous numbers of casualties. Britain and its realms/colonies suffered almost a million war dead, France a half million more, not to mention the rest of the combatant nations. I hardly think his private thoughts would be on what he was going to have for dinner!

Would you say that George V was traditional like Queen Victoria? Or was he more traditional like his father, Edward VII?

What do you mean by traditional? The Queen Victoria of 1900 was different in her customs and traditions from what she had been in 1837 or 1850 or 1870. If you mean in character, the middleaged King George held to the way of life of the latter part of his grandmother's reign and therefore his youth, rather than more recent decades, as he was a conservative man and didn't particularly like modern customs like short skirts, women smoking, jazz, cocktails etc.

All three monarchs were innovators in various directions and Edward and George did some things differently to the way Victoria did them, just as she did things differently to her uncles, especially under Prince Albert's direction, and George did some things differently to his father as well.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on July 14, 2019, 01:08:01 AM
     

It would be interesting to know what George's private thoughts were when he laid the wreath. It was only eleven years before that Archduke Francis Ferdinand was shot and the War began.

He might have been thinking about how many other unkowns there were, or about the families mourning their dead, about how much the war had affected his country, perhaps pondering where the unknown soldier was killed, or even hoping there would never be another war but worrying that there might be. 

Queen Mary was greeted by Grand Duchess Augusta Karoline in the railway station Neustrelitz in 1912.     
Queen Mary of Great Britain in Neustrelitz, 1912 Stock Photo: 48349685 - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-queen-mary-of-great-britain-in-neutrality-1912-48349685.html)

On May 3, 1893 Princess Mary of Teck was suppose to have tea with Princess Louise, Duchess of Fife and her husband Alexander, Duke of Fife. When Mary arrived, she found Prince George, Louise's brother there as well. Louise inquired, "Georgie, don't you think that you ought to take May into the garden to look at the frogs in the pond?" George proposed beside the pond. Princess Mary accepted.   
 

I read that prince William was named after another William, a duke that was brother of the king?

Is it possible that prince Harry is named after this duke?

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on November 26, 2020, 07:25:36 AM
I read that prince William was named after another William, a duke that was brother of the king?

Is it possible that prince Harry is named after this duke?

I thought William was supposedly named after the elder son of the then Duke of Gloucester, brother to George VI. He was killed piloting a plane at an air show.

OTOH I' read somewhere that Harry was Diana's choice of name as Charles quite liked Albert and/or Arthur and Diana hated the sound of both! 

Quote from: Curryong on November 26, 2020, 08:19:51 AM
I thought William was supposedly named after the elder son of the then Duke of Gloucester, brother to George VI. He was killed piloting a plane at an air show.

OTOH I' read somewhere that Harry was Diana's choice of name as Charles quite liked Albert and/or Arthur and Diana hated the sound of both!

I think it was also that it was a royal name but hadn't been used within the family for a while and Prince Will of Gloucester had died.  I think that harry was the same in that it was a royal name and wasn't currently in use but I am guessing Diana didn't like it that much so they went with the abbreviation harry...

In the spring of 1917 there was what seems to have been a concerted campaign against the King of England and the royal family. There was a spate of letters arriving at 10 Downing Street asking how the First World War could be won when the King himself was German.

Royal rewind: the House of Windsor is born ? The Crown Chronicles (https://thecrownchronicles.co.uk/history/history-posts/royal-rewind-beginning-of-house-windsor-name-change-1917/)

Sensing the mood of the country, after huge losses and the bombing of London by the Germans? new Gotha G.IV during World War One, the King knew he and his family had to prove themselves to be British ? and the name of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha didn?t cut the mustard.

Taking his inspiration from Windsor Castle, whose history stretches back to the Norman Conquest of 1066, and is an enduring symbol of the British Monarchy. The Round Tower in the Middle Ward even features on the house?s badge, surrounded by the leaves from an English oak.

(https://i1.wp.com/thecrownchronicles.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/A_Good_Riddance_-_George_V_of_the_United_Kingdom_cartoon_in_Punch_1917.png?w=1356&ssl=1)

Actually the surname of the royal family was Guelph and had been since the first Hanoverian King ascended the British throne (as distinct from the House name of Saxe Coburg Gotha which came from Albert?s family. They were always known more informally as the Coburgs. Queen Victoria had been the last member of the Hanoverian dynasty to reign. Her son Edward took his father?s House name, but at the time of the kerfuffle in 1917 the surname Guelph was overlooked.

It came to the fore again shortly before Andrew was born, when the arguments about Philip not being able to give his children his surname Mountbatten resurfaced. (Churchill had quite early in the reign refused to permit the Mountbatten name to be used for the children as he regarded Dickie Mountbatten as a schemer and would-be king-maker and Queen Mary backed him up.) Anyway, the whole argument of the RF?s surname was rehashed in 1959/60, behind closed doors.

Queen feared 'slur' on family | Monarchy | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/feb/18/monarchy)

Some of the relatives whose stylings and princely titles were swept away in 1917 were not exactly happy at the changes. They included the grand daughters of Queen Victoria, Helena?s daughters, who were left as Princesses of nowhere. They had been Princesses of the Schleswig Holstein (Sonderburg-Augustenburg) line. Their sole surviving brother Albert, living and serving in Germany, had inherited the title of Duke of Schleswig Holstein from the brother of the German Empress Augusta. Bit awkward!

I cant imagine that a name like Guelph or Welf as in some variations would have been acceptable.  Windsor was problaby the best name.

Queen Mary with her aunt Grand Duchess Augusta of Mecklenburg-Strelitz   
Queen Mary of Great Britain (1867?1953) with her aunt Grand Duchess Augusta of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1822-1916) | Grand Ladies | gogm (http://gogmsite.net/new-content/queen-mary-of-great-britain-2.html)

In 1935, the year of King George V's Silver Jubilee, during the Temple Bar Ceremony the Lord Mayor of London presented the King with the ceremonial sword that is the symbol of the City of London's independence.   

Queen Mary was originally Princess Victoria Mary of Teck. From childhood she was called Mary or May. Imagine if as Queen Consort she had been known as Queen Victoria Mary or Queen Victoria.

King George V revived the custom of personally handing out "Maundy Money" to the needy just before Easter.

In 1893 The Lincolnshire Echo expressed: Why had Prince George, 'who is now 28 years of age, not got married or at least engaged to be married?'   
Since the death of his brother, 'few men have been more talked about than the Duke of York', pointed out the Sheffield Evening Telegraph.

In Long to Reign A. W. Purdue wrote: George V had no wish to posture as anything but a titular head of his army and navy, but nevertheless felt it necessary to don uniform and pay visits to the front.   

King George V and Queen Mary met with French president Raymond Poincare and Madame Poincare on July 10, 1917.     
French President Raymond Poincare and wife (left) meet with King George V and Queen Mary of England, the young Prince of Wales and other dignitaries, (http://www.alamy.com/french-president-raymond-poincare-and-wife-meet-with-george-image159684713.html)

In 1900 Prince Adolphus of Teck became the second Duke of Teck. In 1911 his brother-in-law, King George V, as a gift to mark his own Coronation, granted Prince Adolphus the style His Highness.

Was Princess Mary, Viscountess Lascelles (eventually Countess of Harewood) marriage really unhappy?   
Downton Abbey Movie: Was Princess Mary?s Marriage Really Unhappy? - News - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kLs3i2r8fU)

King George V made only four state trips as king: to India, France, Belgium, and Italy.

I don?t know that you could describe the visit to India as a State visit on the same level as to the European countries. Since the Indian Mutiny in the 1850s  most of the the Indian sub-continent had been administered as part of the Raj, as part of the possession of the Crown, the jewel in the Crown so to speak.

The Delhi Durbar of 1911 was a huge and spectacular event, bigger than the one held to celebrate the accession of King Edward VII eight years before, and in fact King George appeared in his Coronation robes as the crowned Emperor of India, with Queen Mary as his Empress (similarly crowned at robed), at this event. The State visits to Belgium, Italy and France (which was of course a republic) were just the exchanges of visits to Heads of State, such as happens today.

Delhi Durbar - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delhi_Durbar)

Queen Mary was very close to her mother and helped with secretarial duties, as well as assisting in the organization of social events and parties.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on August 09, 2022, 10:37:34 PM
Queen Mary was very close to her mother and helped with secretarial duties, as well as assisting in the organization of social events and parties.

I think that was true of all unmarried young women in royal and aristo households in those days however, especially if, like the Duchess of Teck, the mother was very socially active and charitably inclined. After all, young women of that class were not expected to work in the professions or live apart from their parents or guardians until they married, so it was a way of keeping them occupied.

Mary was the only daughter anyway and the Tecks (as part of the ?old? RF) moved in the highest circles, though the Duke and Duchess weren?t popular with the Wales family. The only restraint I suppose was that the Tecks had little money in comparison to their contemporaries and were often in financial difficulties through extravagance.

The same but different! The funeral procession of King George V on a cold wet day in January 1936, including footage of his arrival at St George?s for the last time, soldiers lifting his coffin up those same steps to the Chapel etc. The new King Edward VIII, who was gone by the end of that year, and his three brothers following, to the accompaniment of bagpipes.

The Funeral Of His Majesty King George V (1936) - YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qgJJbq8FvvQ)

I believe the third week of June was established as Royal Week in 1911, with King George and Queen Mary and various other royals in attendance. It?s rather strange that King George should have done this as unlike his late father he wasn?t an admirer of horseflesh, nor a keen racegoer. Neither was Queen Mary. And neither of them were enthusiastic adherents of the social Season, which in those days was very grand indeed.

However, Royal Week became a tradition from 1911 on and Royal Ascot one of the events that heralded the end of the Season. By the beginning of August everyone who was anyone in that world were supposed to retreat to their country estates to celebrate the shooting of grouse, or to go to the seaside or travel abroad, do something away from a stifling London anyway.

This article is mostly about the Regency elite but it does mention the Season, which went hand in hand with when Parliament sat from the 17th century onwards. Royal Ascot was very much part of the late Season until the Second World War.

Regency History: When was the London season? (https://www.regencyhistory.net/2013/05/when-was-london-season.html)

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on August 02, 2023, 10:47:36 PM

Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester could not properly pronounce the letter "R,"   
also known as rhotacism.

Yes, rhotacism seems to have affected several upperclass Englishmen over the centuries. King George VI, Gloucester?s older brother appears to have had a mild form. Lord Melbourne, Queen Victoria?s first PM, and according to some sources the Prince Regent, were others.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on August 08, 2023, 10:38:43 PM

Queen Mary wrote of the proposal of Henry, Viscount Lascelles to Princess Mary: 
"Mary came to my room to announce to me her engagement to Lord Lascelles! We then told G.   
(King George V) and then gave Harry L. our blessing."

Well in actual fact George V was highly delighted at the marriage and not just as a fond father. Point 1. Henry Lascelles was years older than Mary but was a fine shot and George enjoyed shooting, especially on the Harewood estates.

Point 2. The Harewood family were very wealthy, while the BRF had lost investments abroad in WW1 and the royal couple were known to be supporting relatives in the extended family who had lost their money in the ruin of imperial Russia and Germany. George V was friendly with a great many wealthy aristos and others and so Mary having a wealthy husband probably set him purring.

Lascelles, who looked like a melancholy bloodhound, had had an unrequited love for another aristocratic woman. There was a rumour in the London Clubs at the time of his engagement that he had accepted a financial wager from a friend that he propose to Prss Mary and be accepted. So, the story goes, he did.

Queen Mary had three sons predecease her. 

From Wiki.

In 1952, George VI died, the third of Queen Mary's children to predecease her; her eldest granddaughter, Princess Elizabeth, ascended the throne as Queen Elizabeth II. The death of a third child profoundly affected her. Mary remarked to Princess Marie Louise: "I have lost three sons through death, but I have never been privileged to be there to say a last farewell to any of them.??

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on August 09, 2023, 11:00:42 PM

Who was the aristocratic woman that Henry, Viscount Lascelles had an unrequited love for?

When he was in his twenties he supposedly fell in love with Vita Sackville-West, later the author, garden designer and lover of many, including Violet Trefusis and Virginia Woolf. She wouldn?t have been suitable at all to marry and he was better off with Mary and she with her husband, diplomat and author Harold Nicholson. She grew up in a magnificent old country house though, Knole, near Sevenoaks in Kent, which later passed out of her family?s hands.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on November 01, 2023, 09:29:51 PM

What were the early days of married life like for Princess Mary, Duchess of York?   
GEORGE AND MARY THE EARLY YEARS - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOTelHffFC8)

Pregnancy, births and being dominated (sweetly of course) by Mother Dearest and sometimes Mary?s jealous sisters in law. The first two was the fate of many Victorian women, the last was caused by marrying a man who had a very possessive mother. George had his mother?s number though. He once remarked to his wife that ?Mama is the most selfish woman I know?.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on January 14, 2024, 10:18:04 PM

Prince John's image was not included in a programme produced to mark
King George V and Queen Mary's Silver Jubilee in 1935.

Prince John died just after WW1 in Jan 1919, sixteen and a half years before the Jubilee. Unlike his siblings, whom the public had witnessed growing up, marrying and in some cases having children, there was no point of reference for Britons to grasp as far as this youngest child was concerned. It was sad and unfortunate, but there you are. Most British and Empire citizens under 25 wouldn?t remember him, especially as he was kept quietly away in Norfolk for years. Therefore the decision was obviously made in those circumstances not to include John in the programme. I?m sure his parents, most of his siblings and the Duke of Kent, to whom he was close, thought of him sometimes though.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on April 28, 2024, 09:05:57 PM

The Duke of Gloucester spoke at Stanmore Hospital.     

An engagement in the mid 1920s by the look of the women guests'clothing.Everybody seems to be enjoying themselves, especially the children! Strange how the Queen's father and his brother Harry both had that speech impediment regarding the letter 'R'. It's a very English thing, I think. Lord Melbourne, Queen Victoria's mentor and first PM apparently had it as well.

Daily Mail: The King who was 'euthanised' by his doctor: Inside the death of George V, the monarch who rebranded the Royal Family and died 89 years ago today (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/royals/article-14201663/euthanised-death-George-V-89-years-ago.html)

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on January 27, 2025, 08:57:27 PM

Debutant curtsied to King Edward VIII of England   
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/1003474870

Yes, that would have been the Spring Presentations of 1936. Apparently it was noted by everyone that the new King looked bored stiff and sloped off from the ceremony early. I remember seeing photos of a garden party outdoor presentation, might have been this one. However Queen Mary and his sister Lady Lascelles deputised on a couple of occasions. 

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on March 31, 2025, 10:32:00 PM

Princess Marina leaving her house in Belgrave Square with the children
  http://www.gettyimages.com/license/2695639

That must be young Edward (the present Duke of Kent) and baby Alexandra, before the war I guess. The couple were the only son and daughter in law of King George and Queen Mary to have more than two children, with Michael's arrival in 1942. Mary, the Princess Royal had just the two sons as well.

Of course Prince John wasn't obliterated. He was very much part of family life, in spite of learning difficulties etc, until his epilepsy grew too severe. It was agreed by family and doctors that excitement might provoke seizures and these might frighten the younger of his siblings and servants. That was the reason he was not seen in public with his family for several years.

  He then went to Wood Farm at Sandringham in nice, quiet rural surroundings with his beloved governess La-La. He had a regular play mate there.  When he was there, though it was wartime his parents visited whenever they could and also his brother George, later Duke of Kent, who was very fond of him.

The Prince of Wales (Edward) wrote an extremely unfeeling and ignorant letter to his mother following John's death, referring to him as being like an animal, comments that must have hurt her deeply and for which he apologised. John lived on in the hearts of his family, and his mother often referenced him in her diaries.

Of course attitudes towards epilepsy, which was then regarded as a mental illness, were very different to today. However even nowadays I don't believe that seriously ill children who were members of the RF would be constantly paraded in public. So no, I do not believe, unlike that dreadful BBC documentary and a book which brought John to public attention, that there were attempts to obliterate John or his memory.

 On the other hand you could certainly make that case with the Strathmores with two sisters, nieces of the QM, who were hidden away in a mental institution for most of their lives, due to a hereditary mental condition in her married-in sister in law's family.As far as is known the QM hardly knew them and never mentioned them to anyone.