Deposed Royals and Titles

TLLK · June 20, 2018, 12:18:48 AM

Why do royals from deposed monarchies keep their titles? ? Royal Central

QuoteStarting mostly in the 20th century, a number of monarchies were deposed. However, to this day we can still see members of ousted royal families being called by the titles they held when they once reigned.

It is important to note that deposed royals obviously don?t have their titles recognised in the countries they used to reign, and when other people, or even themselves, style them by these titles it is a matter of courtesy and a way to show respect for the role they used to perform.

As a general rule, when a King is deposed, he keeps the title of King to the day he dies, but his heir, who would someday succeed him as monarch, continues to be styled by a title usually held by the heir to the throne, e.g., when Peter II, the former King of Serbia, died, his son continued to use the title of Crown Prince.

Curryong · June 20, 2018, 02:22:59 AM

That's a very interesting question, IMO. I suppose the obvious answer is that deposed royals are brought up with the history and traditions of their Royal House, and have great pride in it. They are also usually deeply interested in the history of the country from which their family was exiled, even if they are now, like some of the Greeks, the Romanians, living there once more.

However, although as a history buff I have a romantic view of such things, I also have a pragmatic streak. Ex Kings, even ex Crown Princes, Princesses, one can understand keeping all their titles, especially if they are defacto sovereigns like Margarita of Romania. Even those ex Margraves and Dukes and Kings in various parts of Germany who still administer the family estates have a purpose in keeping their historic titles in use.

If you look at the Hapsburg, Romanovs and Hohenzolens as an example though, we now have a generation four and five times removed from the last Kaiser and Emperors, who are still using their titles and styling, which spouses have also adopted. Admittedly, because of laws in Germany/Austria, they are used as surnames.

However, when your family do not have a snowdrop's chance in hell of ever regaining their throne and you are five generations removed from all the grandeur of a ruling House, when does it start to become rather pathetic and quite sad?

This must be especially so if you live in, say Paris, in a flat in a rather unsmart part of town, but your interiors are absolutely replete with portraits and objects de art of another age from some long lost palace and ancestors. (I certainly think that people should be able to hold on to lovely family pieces, it's the juxtaposition of interior with exteriors that must make it seem melancholy.)

I do wonder for instance whether Constantine of Greece's great grandchildren not yet born, will ever say to themselves, 'I'm not a Prince or Princess, not really. I'll drop the title and use a portion of the family surname in future. Still proud of my family's history but that will be it.'

TLLK · June 20, 2018, 02:39:48 AM

QuoteHowever, although as a history buff I have a romantic view of such things, I also have a pragmatic streak. Ex Kings, even ex Crown Princes, Princesses, one can understand keeping all their titles, especially if they are defacto sovereigns like Margarita of Romania. Even those ex Margraves and Dukes and Kings in various parts of Germany who still administer the family estates have a purpose in keeping their historic titles in use.

If you look at the Hapsburg, Romanovs and Hohenzolens as an example though, we now have a generation four and five times removed from the last Kaiser and Emperors, who are still using their titles and styling, which spouses have also adopted. Admittedly, because of laws in Germany/Austria, they are used as surnam

I have to wonder with the end of the Iron Curtain years with monarchs from Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, and Serbia being welcomed back with a semi-official status, if some of them are holding out a small hope that they might be reinstated in the future. They seem to be more "trusted" than the politicians on certain matters. Interesting that it is the non-communist nations of Austria, (West) Germany Italy and Greece that held on to the more stringent laws against their former monarchs. As I recall Italy and Greece were pressured into allowing their former royals the right to return to their nations in recent years.

Yes I do have to wonder if in the future generations that we'll see the Greek royals quietly dropping their titles.

Curryong · June 20, 2018, 02:57:36 AM

My memory is vague on the subject but didn't a popular Bulgarian Prince once get himself elected to some political office in Bulgaria and ended up with it all dissipated because of policies he implemented?

Yes, I get your point and of course Margarita of Romania and some of her relatives are accepted. (I do wonder if grandson 'Prince' Nicholas hadn't been cast into the outer darkness by grandpa whether he would be a king in waiting today.) I'm sure hope springs eternal in these families, but for how many generations can you hang on?

LouisFerdinand · June 23, 2018, 12:57:26 AM

@Curryong, It can be hung on to for generations. In some countries, the deposed monarch's descendants use a regnal name and a Roman numeral. For example, in France it is King Henry VII.

Curryong · June 23, 2018, 04:42:56 AM

I know it can hang on. And in the case of the Bourbon claimants to the throne of France and several others, it isn't generations but nearly two hundred years. In my post I just gave my view as to why hanging on to titles that have long melted into the shadows of history (ie longer than four generations of a once ruling family) is plainly ridiculous, even if some of the people still have inherited wealth today.

amabel · July 07, 2018, 09:09:59 AM

It is ridiculous, IMO for people like the French royal families to keep using their titles.. If they want to have a dinner once a year and call earch other King so and so, or Prince this or that.. fine but leave it at that. There isn't a hope in hell that they wil have a restoration...

LouisFerdinand · September 08, 2021, 11:02:01 PM

Archduke Rainier of Austria (1783-1853) was a son of Holy Roman Emperor Leopold II. Rainier was also a Prince Royal of Hungary and Bohemia.

TudorQueen · September 10, 2021, 03:10:51 AM

Quote from: Curryong on June 20, 2018, 02:57:36 AM
My memory is vague on the subject but didn't a popular Bulgarian Prince once get himself elected to some political office in Bulgaria and ended up with it all dissipated because of policies he implemented?

Yes, I get your point and of course Margarita of Romania and some of her relatives are accepted. (I do wonder if grandson 'Prince' Nicholas hadn't been cast into the outer darkness by grandpa whether he would be a king in waiting today.) I'm sure hope springs eternal in these families, but for how many generations can you hang on?

Simeon II was elected prime minister of Bulgaria in 2001. It was one term. By 2011 his party he formed didn't win a single seat.

Curryong · September 10, 2021, 04:20:33 AM

Thanks, TudorQueen. It?s all coming back to me now? :lol:

TLLK · September 10, 2021, 04:55:08 PM

Here's a late deposed royal who I believe tried to assist those fleeing Nazi Germany and Austria during WWII and later worked for a peaceful and unified Europe.
The man who would have been the Kaiser. (Great photo of Otto and Regina on their wedding day. Her train had at least eight people holding it.)

Otto von Habsburg | Unofficial Royalty

TudorQueen · September 10, 2021, 07:21:10 PM

@TLLK Otto was an amazing man, sad more is not spoken of him.

It is believed he helped over 50,000 people flee the Nazis during WWII including over 15,000 Jews. Two of his cousins were in concentration camps during the war. After WWII his attention turned to the communist block and he was a strong supporter of the Hungarian rebelion against communist control.

He was involved with the pan-European picnic demonstration. It led to 600 East Germans being allowed to flee to safety in the West.

How a pan-European picnic brought down the iron curtain | Hungary | The Guardian