Nightmare for Prince Charles Succession Wait!

[sandy]

Diana was popular with her hair gone to "mouse" in Wales 1981 and the rather plain outfits. It was not what she wore or whether or not she lightened her hair, it was her personality and her way with people. Unless she put a paper bag on her head and was not "allowed" to meet anybody of course she would be popular. And the one with the problems was Charles who should have sought help for his jealousy issues. Diana and Charles became competitive during the time the marriage was breaking down.  It was Charles own childish attitude that caused the problems from the get go with his jealousy of his own wife.
Double post auto-merged: August 06, 2014, 12:12:11 AM

I too would have liked to see Diana happily married had she lived. However, as far as overshadowing Charles was concerned I think she did try in the beginning but I don't really know how you can repress charisma. A person's either got it or they haven't, as we see whenever William and Harry make an appearance together. When you add that the media would much rather write and photograph a beautiful young woman in stunning outfits than a man in a suit, however worthy he is, then you can see Charles was on the back foot from the beginning.

How can anybody repress charisma? Charles should have repressed his own jealous tendencies.  Diana was eager to please when she started doing royal duties even learning Welsh to prepare for the trip to Wales.  How can she "hold back" when she felt she had to do her best?

[Curryong]

Yes, her youth and innocence drew the crowds from the beginning of the marriage. Of course, it's as well to remember that this was well before the Internet age. Magazines sold like hot cakes in those days. Plus, Charles was the first Prince of Wales to marry in 120 years so the Press was in a lather of excitement anyway. That much televised 'fairy tale wedding' started the frenzy off. Still, even having taken all that into account, I do believe Diana did possess genuine charisma and that lends its own sort of enchantment.

[Canuck]

I agree that there wasn't much Diana could do about the level of interest in her early in her marriage.  The same thing is happening with Will and Kate (though Will, much to his credit, seems perfectly happy with Kate being in the spotlight).  A lot of what the press runs on is visual, and women provide more interesting and varied clothing and hairstyles.  Additionally, anyone who marries into the family is a novelty for the first little while in a way that the born-Royals just aren't. 

At the same time, as the marriage went on and became more and more acrimonious, I think that Diana did deliberately try to grab attention away from Charles.  That was particularly true after their separation, IMO, when there were a host of occasions where Diana deliberately leaked something to the media/wore something provocative/scheduled her appearances to coincide with a big event for Charles and thus grab the media attention.

[HistoryGirl]

I can't vouch for Diana's personal relationships, but in my opinion, she was a fantastic princess. She worked, was kind to those she helped, and brought a great deal more popularity for the royal family as princess.

[sandy]

I agree that there wasn't much Diana could do about the level of interest in her early in her marriage.  The same thing is happening with Will and Kate (though Will, much to his credit, seems perfectly happy with Kate being in the spotlight).  A lot of what the press runs on is visual, and women provide more interesting and varied clothing and hairstyles.  Additionally, anyone who marries into the family is a novelty for the first little while in a way that the born-Royals just aren't. 

At the same time, as the marriage went on and became more and more acrimonious, I think that Diana did deliberately try to grab attention away from Charles.  That was particularly true after their separation, IMO, when there were a host of occasions where Diana deliberately leaked something to the media/wore something provocative/scheduled her appearances to coincide with a big event for Charles and thus grab the media attention.

It also was a reaction to Charles pals leaking unfavorable stories about her to the press with Charles apparent approval.  A woman called the press and told a reporter a story that Diana "refused" to have a party thrown for her on her 30th birthday. And Camilla going to the Sun Editor for 10 years.  And Nicholas Soames  and other friends of Charles knocking Diana.

Diana did wear something provocative the night Charles admitted adultery on national TV. I approved of Diana knocking Camilla's 50th  birthday party off the covers by posing in a bathing suit.


William and Kate are not "out there" on the same scale that Charles and Diana were. Different scenarios.

I think if Diana is slammed for "leaking" stories then how come Charles and his cronies are not knocked for this. Diana was playing in the big leagues with Charles people undermining her to the media.

[Canuck]

I didn't "slam" Diana, nor did I say that she was the only one leaking stories to the press.  But IMO Diana made a particular point during their estrangement and after their divorce of timing her appearances, leaks, etc. to upstage Charles.  Charles certainly behaved badly in his own ways, but I don't think he ever tried to play that particular game (perhaps in part because it simply wouldn't have been as effective coming from him).

[Lady Adams]

^I don't think anyone accused you of "slamming" anyone, Canuck.  :flower:

[Canuck]

Apologies if I misunderstood.  I took sandy's comment about people slamming Diana as a response to me, since her post quoted me.

[TLLK]

Curryong and Canuck I have to agree with your assessments of the  Wales' marriage and their behavior with the press. Also it was more time consuming for readers to share their views with the press regarding their opinions of the couple. You actually had to take pen to paper, find an envelope, mail it and hope they'd choose to share your letter in their "readers' views section." The press IMHO had greater control in selling the Wales' story when it was a fairytale and later when things had "irretrievably broken down." :(

Readers have greater opportunity to share their thoughts with the internet. I've always wonder how the royal couples of the 1960's-early 1990's would fare and what coverage they'd receive with today's royal forums.

[Canuck]

That's a very interesting question, TLLK.  One of the things I've noticed about the internet hive-mind is that (especially with women) it tends to go overboard building up a cool new celebrity as the Greatest. Thing. Ever. and then once the celebrity reaches an oversaturation point, everyone just as swiftly turns on that person and begins to pick apart everything about them.  It happened with Jennifer Lawrence, and Natalie Portman, and Anne Hathaway, and a whole load of others in recent years.

I suspect that Diana would have been hugely popular during her engagement and perhaps through the births of Will and Harry, but that the internet commentariat would eventually have turned on her to a large degree after that even if she had never done anything to really deserve it.  I also think it would have been much, much more difficult for her to play the PR game as well as she definitely did during her life -- instead of just needing to keep a small number of reporters on side, there would be countless internet commenters, twitter users with cameras, gossip sites for people to leak to, etc. 

I suspect as well that given what we know about Diana's love/hate relationship with the press and public attention, and the reports that she obsessively read and worried about her own press, that the unfiltered mass of internet commentary would have been quite difficult for her to deal with.  I think the celebrities/public figures who stay most sane under that onslaught are the ones who have the discipline and self-protective instincts to simply not read what is being said about them online.  I don't think Diana would have been able to resist.

[Curryong]

^^Yes, TLLK, I sometimes wonder if the Armstrong-Jones/Princess Margaret union would have even gone ahead if they had become close in today's Internet-driven world. A lot of things in Tony's past were hidden under the umbrella phrase 'bohemian,' by the much more deferential Press in those days.

About the only thing the general public knew then about AAJ was that he was a well connected Society photographer. Today, everything about his exes (male and female) and lifestyle would be all over the Internet, (not to mention what happened after their marriage).

[TLLK]

Thanks Ladies. Curryong- I suspect the Armstrong-Jones union would have received far greater scrutiny than it did then.  The separation and divorce coverage would have been even more intense for any royal couple: A-J, York, Wales, Phillips etc...

As for individual royal brides (Sarah, Diana, Sophie) IMHO their educational backgrounds, previous relationships, family histories, clothing choices etc...would be compared endlessly.

[Curryong]

Yes, though Canuck I have noticed on some royal forums, (and many Tumblr sites), though not this one, that Kate (for instance) was very unpopular right from the beginning so there was no celebrity-type build-up to be disassembled in the first place.

[Canuck]

Interesting, Curryong.  I wonder if that has anything to do with how long she dated Will, and the fact that (especially in the UK) she was already well known to the public for years before their marriage.  In Canada/the U.S. I think there was much more of a honeymoon period for her.

[Curryong]

I really don't know what caused it, though she seems to be thought of, along with her mother, as a schemer who wanted the ring from the beginning and she and her family were and are regarded as having manipulated a vulnerable young man (William) into marriage.

Heaven knows, Kate has her faults (which have been discussed here) but some of the personal abuse on Twitter, Tumblr and some forums has been downright nasty and over the top, IMO, every facial expression scrutinised etc.

[sandy]

That's a very interesting question, TLLK.  One of the things I've noticed about the internet hive-mind is that (especially with women) it tends to go overboard building up a cool new celebrity as the Greatest. Thing. Ever. and then once the celebrity reaches an oversaturation point, everyone just as swiftly turns on that person and begins to pick apart everything about them.  It happened with Jennifer Lawrence, and Natalie Portman, and Anne Hathaway, and a whole load of others in recent years.

I suspect that Diana would have been hugely popular during her engagement and perhaps through the births of Will and Harry, but that the internet commentariat would eventually have turned on her to a large degree after that even if she had never done anything to really deserve it.  I also think it would have been much, much more difficult for her to play the PR game as well as she definitely did during her life -- instead of just needing to keep a small number of reporters on side, there would be countless internet commenters, twitter users with cameras, gossip sites for people to leak to, etc. 

I suspect as well that given what we know about Diana's love/hate relationship with the press and public attention, and the reports that she obsessively read and worried about her own press, that the unfiltered mass of internet commentary would have been quite difficult for her to deal with.  I think the celebrities/public figures who stay most sane under that onslaught are the ones who have the discipline and self-protective instincts to simply not read what is being said about them online.  I don't think Diana would have been able to resist.

I think Camilla's machinations would have been more available to the public. Plus Charles would not have been able to be as "discreet" in his various affairs. And it would be detected perhaps who was leaking bad stories about Diana.

It would be difficult for Charles to play his PR games.
Double post auto-merged: August 06, 2014, 10:51:31 AM

I didn't "slam" Diana, nor did I say that she was the only one leaking stories to the press.  But IMO Diana made a particular point during their estrangement and after their divorce of timing her appearances, leaks, etc. to upstage Charles.  Charles certainly behaved badly in his own ways, but I don't think he ever tried to play that particular game (perhaps in part because it simply wouldn't have been as effective coming from him).

I said Diana is slammed. A general statement. Yes indeed she is slammed on boards, in the media and by Charles pals.

But it can be said that Diana did work on her charities and was not this woman cackling about how she can upstage Charles. She did get praised by Mandela and others for her charity work which does show she was doing a lot more than "upstaging" Charles.

Charles jealousy issues were the problem from the get go. And he put down Diana some of the put downs witnessed by others including Jephson. Charles surely was no saint to her. If a woman is emotionally abused by a husband, there can be some reactions by the wife to put it mildly.

Charles had done plenty of undermining of Diana. And yes he uses PR. He was not and is not some helpless person. If he had not used his friends and sympathizers to undermine Diana (even before Morton) maybe he and Diana could have come to some sort of understanding. Charles is IMO not a nice guy to say the least.

[TLLK]

I really don't know what caused it, though she seems to be thought of, along with her mother, as a schemer who wanted the ring from the beginning and she and her family were and are regarded as having manipulated a vulnerable young man (William) into marriage.

Heaven knows, Kate has her faults (which have been discussed here) but some of the personal abuse on Twitter, Tumblr and some forums has been downright nasty and over the top, IMO, every facial expression scrutinised etc.

Seems to be a phenomenon with our internet age as she's not the only one. Letizia, Mary, Maxima, M-M and Rania have all had their share of OTT comments from people with a very, very intense interest in them. (M-M's taking some real heat at the moment. :no: Letizia's had a bit of a break since the abdication/proclamation/investiture events.) 

I imagine if Diana was still alive that she'd have her own sugar/vinegar followers like many public figures. Seems to be par for the course.

[Trudie]

The problem with Diana was that she shone from the moment she was identified as Charles girlfriend. Diana was different from all the previous girls he dated as she was very charismatic and the media staked out her apartment and employment places. If Charles hadn't been so petty and jealous he would have seen Diana as an asset in supporting his charitable works such as she did with the Princes Trust attending concerts etc. The way the media stalked her while they were dating should have given him a clue that if he wanted all the attention on him Diana was not the girl for him to marry.

[FanDianaFancy]

 (Going back to the thread  starting  her and going back).

I agree Trudie. The Shy Di  picture  with the  sunlight  behind her  skirt  as she held the two little  kids  from Preschool.."It" quaility.

There were many, many  other titled girls for  HRH C  to marry.

LDS, PD had that "It" quailty.
JBKOnassis, AHephurn, PGrace and some others  had that "It"  quality. ETaylor  was "It."

Too bad  she did not live.
Too bad she and PC  did not at some point  before it  was all too late,  before  she  became bitter  and  past  22, make it work by giving up CPB.
Too bad.

PC  had  it  all. He  really  did with her have  it  all or could ahve.
They  could have  rode  the  wave  of  popularity  amoung their subkects and cont. to both work  hard for  things together and apart.

That  would  have done him much good because he  had  such a long wait  for KofE and is  having a long wait and will cont. to  have such a  long  wait.

[KaTerina Montague]

Good gawd why can't we just have one discussion about Charles without turning in this into a st diana debate!  She has her own board go there and tall non stop about how great she was and how evil Charles hurt her.
I do feel sorry for Charles a little bit. It's unfortunate that such a system still exists where a man is a) forced into a job, b) at the she time forced to wait to decades to have the job c) living with the notion that you can't have the job you were born to do until your parent dies.

[Trudie]

 Well Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark is in the same position as Charles only difference is Frederick nor any of the ministers are whining about it. :thumbsup:

[tara1982]

Diana was dimond. And even her children were like little dimonds. She is only one - and I think it is only good person in England.

[Canuck]

Well Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark is in the same position as Charles only difference is Frederick nor any of the ministers are whining about it. :thumbsup:

Fred is also 20 years younger than Charles.  I expect if he's still waiting to be King in 2034, there will be some discussion of how long his wait has been.

That said, I don't think Charles is complaining about it.  He's carved out a meaningful role for himself as PoW, he's not just sitting around waiting to be King as was the case for much of history.

[Trudie]

For the last 20 years there have become public Charles plans for his ascension. Never heard anything from Denmark about Frederick or his plans. :orchid:

[Canuck]

I don't recall seeing anything in which Charles complains about the wait or tries to muscle his way into the top job.  Of course there are plans being made--barring some tragedy, he will become King at some point--but I haven't seen a hint of whining from Charles.