Engagement, Marriage, Divorce of Diana and Charles (Thread from 2020 onward)

[oak_and_cedar]

But the point was, she didn't like country life, or sports.  She was a rich woman, do you think she could not have rented a country cottage for weekends and holidays without worrying about the cost?  She did consider taking one at Althorp because the boys got a bit itchy during their weekends and times with her, if they were stuck in her London apartment.. I don't know of her staying with country based friends...
She didn't like Balmoral or the country life that much of the RF including Charles and the queen positively love... In time I think she grew to really hate it and only went because she was obliged to as Charles' wife.  She barely tolerated the times at Balmoral as time progressed and she got more restless.  As I've said, when obliged to go to Highgrove at weekends, to take the boys there, she was bored stiff and unhappy and spent the time on the phone...

She really didn't like something that is very much part of the RF's life, particularly Charles, and only just tolerated it... Since she had little in common with Charles as it was, it meant that she and he were more and more at odds.

The point is, she still participated all of the years she was married because of her spouse. I think that most married couples do that and it was kind and wise of her to do this, regardless of her own like or dislike.

Her children could visit their father and his side of their family in their country estastes. Diana complemented this by providing vacation in sunny places. Completely reasonable thing to do, IMO.

[LouisFerdinand]

Did Lady Sara and Lady Jane ask their sister Diana if she truly liked being in a country life atmosphere?

[Curryong]

Why should they? All the siblings grew up in the same house in Norfolk, in the countryside. Diana's later boarding school (the same one her sisters had attended) was surrounded by countryside. Althorp is in the English countryside. Diana visited her sisters Jane in her quarters at Balmoral and Sarah in her marital home. All countryside.  If they couldn't gauge what her attitude was to rural activities and pursuits after nearly twenty years of life then I feel sorry for them.

However, the main and IMO defining difference between what Diana felt about her family home, Wood Farm, on the Sandringham estate, and what she found at Balmoral and Sandringham is that at Wood Farm she was surrounded by family and old family friends she was used to, who loved her, where she wasn't judged, wasn't automatically in a position where she was expected to help entertain others and where life was fairly informal, though there were servants in an upper mc setting.

The family sometimes hosted shoots as happened later at Althorp. Again it was much less formal than at Balmoral with its half a dozen changes of clothing a day, and Diana could go for a swim if she felt like it or for a walk with her siblings or friends, rather than participating in the shoots or talking everlastingly about it all around the dinner table. And the talk would be of family and neighbourly matters as well.

[QueenAlex]

The point is, she still participated all of the years she was married because of her spouse. I think that most married couples do that and it was kind and wise of her to do this, regardless of her own like or dislike.

Her children could visit their father and his side of their family in their country estastes. Diana complemented this by providing vacation in sunny places. Completely reasonable thing to do, IMO.

She didn't have any choice but to visit Balmoral etc during the time of her marriage. It was not her being "kind or wise" - it was expected of her just like her charity duties.  And after the separation she clearly did toy with the idea of having a country place of her own, because the boys enjoyed their country sports and were I think frustrated at times by spending holidays or weekends with her in London.. where the press were around and there wasn't as much to do.
Double post auto-merged: June 28, 2020, 07:01:44 AM

Why should they? All the siblings grew up in the same house in Norfolk, in the countryside. Diana's later boarding school (the same one her sisters had attended) was surrounded by countryside. Althorp is in the English countryside. Diana visited her sisters Jane in her quarters at Balmoral and Sarah in her marital home. All countryside.  If they couldn't gauge what her attitude was to rural activities and pursuits after nearly twenty years of life then I feel sorry for them.

However, the main and IMO defining difference between what Diana felt about her family home, Wood Farm, on the Sandringham estate, and what she found at Balmoral and Sandringham is that at Wood Farm she was surrounded by family and old family friends she was used to, who loved her, where she wasn't judged, wasn't automatically in a position where she was expected to help entertain others and where life was fairly informal, though there were servants in an upper mc setting.

The family sometimes hosted shoots as happened later at Althorp. Again it was much less formal than at Balmoral with its half a dozen changes of clothing a day, and Diana could go for a swim if she felt like it or for a walk with her siblings or friends, rather than participating in the shoots or talking everlastingly about it all around the dinner table. And the talk would be of family and neighbourly matters as well.

I think she just accepted county life as a child because you tend to accept whatever life your family has as normal...     And she was also away at boarding school a good deal of her childhood where she had activities that she enjoyed.. and when she came home for holidays she had her pets, and her swimming and tennis. I doubt if any of her family discussed whether they liked the life they had, it was just accepted.  But when Diana was older she DID want to go to London, she was very keen on it and her mother and father were  worried about her being so young and being in the big city..  so  Frances helped her buy a flat.. where she woudl be "safe"...
And from then on, I don't think she was all that keen on a return to the country.  She and her flatmates went home or visited friends in the country at the weekends but Diana was happier in the city.

[Curryong]

I think she just accepted county life as a child because you tend to accept whatever life your family has as normal...     And she was also away at boarding school a good deal of her childhood where she had activities that she enjoyed.. and when she came home for holidays she had her pets, and her swimming and tennis. I doubt if any of her family discussed whether they liked the life they had, it was just accepted.  But when Diana was older she DID want to go to London, she was very keen on it and her mother and father were  worried about her being so young and being in the big city..  so  Frances helped her buy a flat.. where she woudl be "safe"...
And from then on, I don't think she was all that keen on a return to the country.  She and her flatmates went home or visited friends in the country at the weekends but Diana was happier in the city.

But neither of her sisters went back to the country either after their education was over, did they? They both got jobs in London, at Vogue at first. Jane didn't marry a man with a country estate (they mostly lived in London) and Sarah only married a gentleman farmer due to love. There's no evidence that Sarah was desperately in love with country sports etc. Diana didn't go back to Althorp after her schooling because she hated Raine who took over there, and her mother gave in about the flat. Diana was supremely happy with her little jobs in her flat with her friends, but if she had had a country cottage and the same friends and a job nearby as a nanny she would probably have loved that too. 

The point with Diana is that she thrived where she felt safe, valued and comfortable. Diana felt that way among kith and kin in a country house in Norfolk, and felt the opposite at Balmoral and Sandringham. In other words it wasn't the countryside around Balmoral that made her feel like she was a fish out of water but the members of the Royal Family whom she didn't know very well and whom she felt judged by and whose excessively formal way of life and huntin', shootin' and fishin' conversation left her floundering.

[QueenAlex]

but we're not discussing Jane and Sarah.  They didn't marry Charles..
I think that countryside didn't appeal to Diana per se...
  The things that the queen and Charles loved about Balmoral for example, didn't appeal to her.  She didn't like the sports.. she didn't like the weather, she didn't like the isolation.  The queen and Charles I think like getting away from it all as much as they can, being able to walk for miles and shoot or ride.   Diana didn't want to trudge through miles of muddy grass or fish or shoot. She felt safer IMO in an urban setting. 
She got her exercise swimming and tennis playng and going to the gym, and she preferred hot sunny weather to bracing rain.
I dont know if had she not married Charles she would have settled for a  job in the country as a nanny for example..  Possibly if she'd lived in a country town, and had friends around her, she might not have disliked it..But I think she preferred London, where she could see friends, go to movies, go shopping, and so on. But I can't imagine her settling for a job in the coutntry if she could work in London.
I think she was Ok with the countryside as a backdrop when she was a kid, as we tend to accept and love our familiar home.. but she didn't later.  I'm not sure if she was that close to her sisters, as they grew older.
But if she had enjoyed country life more, she would not have felt so much a fish out of water in Balmoral...
Besides, in later life, she never showed any enthusiasm for finding a country home.. even though her mother had chosen a more rural life in middle age.  She had loved London but later chose to live in Scotland...  But Diana could have found a country cottage for weekends, and invited her own friends there but she never did...

[oak_and_cedar]

She didn't have any choice but to visit Balmoral etc during the time of her marriage. It was not her being "kind or wise" - it was expected of her just like her charity duties.  And after the separation she clearly did toy with the idea of having a country place of her own, because the boys enjoyed their country sports and were I think frustrated at times by spending holidays or weekends with her in London.. where the press were around and there wasn't as much to do.

She did her duty as a spouse, that is wise. IMO.

[QueenAlex]

She did her duty as a spouse, that is wise. IMO.

she dindt' have any alternative..  She was married to the Queen's son. In an ordinary family she might have been able to refuse to go for long holidays to her mother in laws' place, or refused to host country weekends and shooting parties for her husband.... but she couldn't do that as the queen's daughter in law.  The position of wife to the heir to the throne came with social duties and she couldn't get out of them.   Once she did have a choice, she didn't do country things...

[oak_and_cedar]

Diana did not want to get out of them, IMO.

She spent every year of her marriage going to Balmoral and only stopped after the separation.

If you are separated, why go to your spouses estate?

[QueenAlex]

Diana did not want to get out of them, IMO.

She spent every year of her marriage going to Balmoral and only stopped after the separation.

If you are separated, why go to your spouses estate?

She didnt like ti at Balmoral, @Oak.  right from her honeymoon.  If you read about her there is an account of Diana's spending time with one of Charles' aides, when she was at Balmoral.  he was keeping her company while Charles was out shooting or stalking and she was miserable..  There are accounts of her rowing with Charles over going shooting or hunting.  She put up with  the weekends in the country's and Balmoral because she had no choice but increasingly she disliked the whole rural set up and did not want to do it.  When she and Charles separated, as I said, she could have had a county cottage but she didn't really want one.   She spent some weekends with J Hewitt at his family's country cottage, when she was seeing him but that was I suspect mainly so that she coudl see him.  HOwever we're not goign to agree on this... so Im going to drop it.

[oak_and_cedar]

She became pregnant during the honeymoon and experienced morning sickness and hormonal changes as most pregnant women do. It's not unreasonable that she had discussions with her husband about the time he spent away from her.

I think her dislike had to do with the state of her marriage and not the 'country life' per se.

Maintaining an estate is often expensive and there could have been other solutions. She had family and friends who could provide that sort of 'life' to her and her children if she wanted to. Plus, if her children wanted her to be at Sandringham or Balmoral I seriously doubt HM or prince Philip would have said no. They would probably welcome her. So she didn't have to purchase an estate.

[QueenAlex]

What is this about buying  an estate.  Nobody suggested this.  She wanted to take a house in the Althorp estate as a place for the boys to have their country sports, but when she and her brother hit problems over the cottage she dropped the idea and never seems to have considered it again.  The boys went to Balmoral in the summer to spend time with their father and grandparents, and Diana wasn't likely to be invited to that house party.. but she was invited for Christmas to the RF's celebration.. and she would not even stay for lunch.

[oak_and_cedar]

She could either rent or purchase a country house which was not practical since she could stay at friends' houses was my point.

That was in the summer of '97 where she had the disagreement with her brother, if i'm not mistaken? She couldn't 'never have considered it again' for obvious reasons.

We don't know that. Balmoral is the residence of the monarch and HM might have invited Diana.

How do you know she did not stay for lunch?

[QueenAlex]

She could either rent or purchase a country house which was not practical since she could stay at friends' houses was my point.

That was in the summer of '97 where she had the disagreement with her brother, if i'm not mistaken? She couldn't 'never have considered it again' for obvious reasons.

We don't know that. Balmoral is the residence of the monarch and HM might have invited Diana.

How do you know she did not stay for lunch?

No, the dispute about the country cottage was around 1993,  when she was separated from P Charles.  Charles S and D  had an argument about the house as it turned out not to be the best choice for security reasons, and Charles S was a little wary about having Diana living there  but he offered her other houses on the estate.  Diana got angry and they rowed.  They were estranged for a time and Diana never seems to have considered renting a country place again.   She didn't stay at friends' country houses, she did visit James Hewitts' family place which was in the country but that was to pursue her affair with him.   Left to her own devices she had no desire to visit or live in the country.

Why would the queen invite Diana to Balmoral?  They go there for the shooting, and Charles had the boys to stay in August, which left Di free to go on her own holidays.. Diana was hardly likely to be invited when she didn't like the Scottish estate, the RF were fed up with her and the shooting season was a time for the boys to visit him and the queen...
She was invited a couple of Christmases but as far as I can remember, she left straight after church...

[oak_and_cedar]

This article says it was in '96
Princess Diana's former staff attack Earl Spencer | Daily Mail Online

Diana did have visits to friends who lived in the country.

Diana visited Hewitt and his family because they were in a relationship. That does not necessarily imply a 'dislike' of the country side. IIRC Hewitt even said that he and Diana spent time outdoors walking and so on.

[LouisFerdinand]

If Lady Diana had not met Prince Charles and had met James Hewitt when he was single, do you think she might have married James?

[QueenAlex]

This article says it was in '96
Princess Diana's former staff attack Earl Spencer | Daily Mail Online

Diana did have visits to friends who lived in the country.

Diana visited Hewitt and his family because they were in a relationship. That does not necessarily imply a 'dislike' of the country side. IIRC Hewitt even said that he and Diana spent time outdoors walking and so on.

As far as I can remember it was earlier than that.  But maybe I'm wrong..  However it was some time before her death and she didn't make any further attempts to find a country house.  She only wanted a place to bring the boys and they already had Balmoral and royal places.  Charles Spencer did offer her other houses on the estate but she got in a rage with him and would not compromise.  I dont know of her having many visits to friends in the country.. She had outgrown the British aristocracy in her last few years and didn't want the "shooting parties and country weekends" when she could go and have 3 summer holidays in some expensive place abroad.. which is where she went for holidays.

She met with Hewitt either at Highgrove or his mother's house but that was for reasons of avoiding the press. 

[oak_and_cedar]

She didn't make any attempts at finding a country house because there was no need for it in '97.

We don't know that Diana got in a 'rage' with her brother. They had an argument and then made up. Diana isn't here to tell her side.

I don't think she 'outgrew' any of her friends regardless of their 'station'. She did have vacations abroad but if she were invited to the country side now and then I doubt she'd say no, IMO.

Her meeting Hewitt at Highgrove or at his mothers' doesn't indicate a dislike for the countryside. Indeed, Hewitt has spoken about how they used to take long walks in the country. That implies that her 'behaviour' did not have anything to do with her 'dislike' of the country but everything to do with the state of her marriage. IMO.

[QueenAlex]

She didn't make any attempts at finding a country house because there was no need for it in '97.

We don't know that Diana got in a 'rage' with her brother. They had an argument and then made up. Diana isn't here to tell her side.

I don't think she 'outgrew' any of her friends regardless of their 'station'. She did have vacations abroad but if she were invited to the country side now and then I doubt she'd say no, IMO.

Her meeting Hewitt at Highgrove or at his mothers' doesn't indicate a dislike for the countryside. Indeed, Hewitt has spoken about how they used to take long walks in the country. That implies that her 'behaviour' did not have anything to do with her 'dislike' of the country but everything to do with the state of her marriage. IMO.

Tehy had to take long walks in the countryside because that was where they met.  there wasn't much else to do.  They met at highgrove or his mother's country cottage.. and Hewitt is such an egotist that he probably thought that he and he alone had made her conquer her bored dislike of country life.
Yes there was a bitter row between Charles S and his sister, where he returned her letters unopened because he was trying to calm things down between them...a nd he asked for her to return the Spencer Tiara.   He got pretty annoyed with her, and they were on bad terms for a while.. but they did make up in the end. 
Diana never looked for another country cottage because she didn't really want one that much... she had just wanted somewhere that the boys could go shooting when she had them to stay on weekends...
And IMO she would have gone on taking her holidays abroad, in expensive and foreign locations rather than visiting family or friends in the UK

[oak_and_cedar]

Well I do agree that Hewitt is an egotist. And that his mothers place was a safe place to meet. However, that in and of itself does not necessarily prove Diana's 'aversion' to some country activities.

It could very well be that Diana was happy and content with Hewitt and could do things she liked such as going for long walks. She obviously did not care for stalking and so did not join PC. However it seems that Hewitt did like to go on walks with her.

Diana isn't here to give her side of the story. I think it was siblings having disagreements but they got over it and made up, like you wrote.

Diana might have gotten a country cottage later on in life, it could have been convenient for her. It was just that other things were a priority for her at the time, her boys had Balmoral and so it wasn't at the top of her list then. IMO.


Double post auto-merged: July 26, 2020, 07:53:58 PM

If Lady Diana had not met Prince Charles and had met James Hewitt when he was single, do you think she might have married James?

@LouisFerdinand

I think she might have. However I don't think the marriage would have lasted.

[LouisFerdinand]

Lady Diana was of the Aristocracy/Nobility. James was not. He may not have liked all the duties, responsibilities, and events of the Aristocracy/Nobility.

[QueenAlex]

Unless she changed, (as her mother did in middle life) I dont see any reason she would have gotten a counrty cottage. I think she wanted it mainly for the boys, and once she had a row with Charles S (which was quite heated) she lost interest. She could have had a cottage at Althorp, but she got annoyed at Charles S and dropped the idea.  So if she didn't do it then for the boys why would she do it later?
I think she was frustrated at times with living in KP which was in the middle of London, and which was probably a lonely place at weekends, when many of her friends would be at their country homes.. and it was living in her ex's family house.. but she got away on foreign holidays...
Hewitt seems to have believed that he had conquered Diana's aversion to horses and country life.. but the truth was that Diana probably mildly enjoyed a weekend in the country where she was able to see her lover and be safe from prying cameras and so came across as really enjoying the life.. but it was being with him that she enjoyed. When she got fed up with him and realised how little she could trust him, she seems to have dropped any dreams of a little country cottage. 

[oak_and_cedar]

We simply will never know Diana's future plans. She might have wanted a country home when she remarried for her family. I think though that at the time she didn?t need it and put the idea on ice.

Yes, Hewitt probably thinks he Gods gift to women lol. But she grew up in the country and though she didn't like stalking etc. she probably was fond of taking long walks and so on. She was with Hewitt and it was only natural that she'd focus on him and be happy in his presence.

I think Hewitt comes across at manipulative, vindictive and 'unpleasant' at times, IMO. I think she wanted out when she realized this. In addition to not trusting him, as you say. But I don't think she had 'given up' on any plans for the country. If she had another marriage I think she would have liked to be there IMO.

[QueenAlex]

We simply will never know Diana's future plans. She might have wanted a country home when she remarried for her family. I think though that at the time she didn?t need it and put the idea on ice.

Yes, Hewitt probably thinks he Gods gift to women lol. But she grew up in the country and though she didn't like stalking etc. she probably was fond of taking long walks and so on. She was with Hewitt and it was only natural that she'd focus on him and be happy in his presence.

I think Hewitt comes across at manipulative, vindictive and 'unpleasant' at times, IMO. I think she wanted out when she realized this. In addition to not trusting him, as you say. But I don't think she had 'given up' on any plans for the country. If she had another marriage I think she would have liked to be there IMO.

Diana wanted out of the relationship with JH when he began to sell her story. She got  frightened of him.. and realised that he was in it largely for the money.  But for a time she was in love with him and he was her escape from the difficulties of her life.. so she clung to him.  She met him in country places mostly, either his mothers home or Highgrove where she had more chance of keeping their affair private.  But that didn't mean she wanted to live in the country..
I cant see why she would have chosen to lead a country life if she remarried.. I doubt if she would have found a country squire who would have been happy with her as Englishmen dont usually care for all that publicity... and I dont think she would have wanted to be stuck in the country with wellies and wet weather.  Maybe a country cottage for occasional weekends but one of her issues with Charles, was that he loved country life and its sports and farming...and she didt.
If she had remarried i doubt if ti would have been an Englishman.. Probably a rich American or possibly someone else rich and foreign who had homes abraod... She already spent most of her holidays abroad in sunny climes... and I think one reason that she did attach briefly to Dodi was that he or at least his father was so rich that they lived all over the world..

[TLLK]

Thirty-nine years ago, the PoW and the Lady Diana Spencer were married at St. Paul's Cathedral in London. It was my 18th birthday and I celebrated by waking up at 3am Pacific time to watch the live coverage.

Royal Wedding Rewind: The Prince of Wales and Lady Diana Spencer ? Royal Central