Diana, Charles and Camilla - love drama part 3

[sandy]

Lindell, I  disagree  you about"Diana  hurting her  boys  with the  Panorama  interview..." I am not  picking  on  you.
Diana was  EQUAL  to Charles  at that  point  in their  lives of  spilling  the goods  for  the media  to  feast on.
Charles  said, he  never  loved  her.  Oh, don't  you think  that  hurt  the  boys?
Wow, their  father  never loved nor  respected, Diana,  Princess  of  Breeding.
Both, Charles  and  Diana  ,at  that  point  in their  lives were  tit  for  tat.
Both  were  equal  in  saying  way  too  much  to  the meida at  that  point  in their  lives.

I

true but it has to be said that Diana started it. If she had not gone public with the Morton book, Charles would not have retalaited with his interview.  and while Diana did say that she "loved papa".. she allowed her friends to say that he was a "bad father and a selfish one".  I shoudl think that wasn't very comfortable for the boys either.
and it became a "tit for tat" situation with both of them behaving stupidly.  But then again, that's the unpleasntness of divorce - just on a larger more public scale than most people experienece.
and I agree that had Diana accepted the relationship with Camilla and found herlsef a steady boyfriend, she could probalby have lived comfortably in her marriage and been alive to see her son getting married.

Charles and his cronies actually started it. There was a campaign as early as 1983 where after Charles' complained about Diana's popularity his Highgrove pals started badmouthing her. Plus Camilla gave "her side" to the editor of the Sun for a number of years.

There is no such thing as having a "boyfriend" when one is married.  It's just wrong. What Camilla did was wrong--she didn't divorce her husband and he didn't divorce her to maintain the facade of a marriage while she "saw" Charles.   Had Charles dropped his "grilfriend" in favor of the person he married,  I think perhaps they may have worked things out. A better solution than Diana having a "steady boyfriend" while maintaining a marriage facade. It should be pointed out that Charles wasn't exactly nice to Diana while he was seeing Camilla--and flaunted his mistress even having her redecorate the home he shared with Diana.

It is not true that Diana told her friends to badmouth Charles. They badmouthed him for the most obvious reason--he had another woman on the side. Elsa Bowler openly criticized this. Caroline Bartholomew, Lucia Santa Cruz, Rosa Monckton NEVER criticized Charles fathering skills. Diana said he was a good father and praised the attention he gave to their sons. This is so not true Amabel.

Charles on the other hand had his pals say Diana was "mentally ill." LIke Nicholas Soames did.

[amabel]

There was no campaign or if there was, it was pretty unsuccessful becauase for all of the 80s Diana was the darling of the tabloids.  If Camilla spoke to them, and bad mouthed Diana (wihch I gather is not clear) then she signally failed to put out anything that harmed Diana... for many years, Diana coudl do no wrong with the tabloids and thte public.  Clearly Charl'es "campaign" was a dismal failure.

Charles flaunted his mistress?  How does this set with the fact that as servatns have siad, he got them to fib for him, when he was visiting Camilla?  as for redecorating IIRC Charles redecorated Highgrove when he and Di separated, and Diana did the same with her KP apartments.. (normal behavior in a divorced or separating couple)....

James Giblbey is quoted as saying that Diana thought that Charles was a bad father, a selfish father... wasn't he a friend of Dianas?

[sandy]

Diana was not always the darling of the tabloids. There was the article by Tina Brown, The Mouse that Roared that was highly critical. Nigel Dempster consistently badmouthed Diana and he was squarely in Charles camp.

Charles had Camilla host parties at Highgrove (when Diana still was married to him), Camila redecorated Highgrove, Charles gave Diana cheap trinkets and Camilla diamonds and Diana was made well aware of this, Charles put down Diana in public. I don't think it 'normal" for a mistress to usurp a wife's place. No other royal mistress was IMO this tacky. Diana was perfectly entitled to redecorate Highgrove since she lived t heir as Charles wife. Camilla as a mistress had no rights nor should have been allowed to act as "wife."

And it was not known C and D would divorce until the Queen ordered it in 1995.

James Gilbey never said this publicly. Where was this quoted. He made some comments about how Diana was treated by the family but never went into Charlees' fathering skills.What you are contending Amabel is not true. Diana's close friends NEVER publicly badmouthed Charles for his fathering skills. NEVER.  

Nicholas Soames questioned Diana's sanity . PUBLICLY. Which in effect would jeopardize Diana perhaps keeping custody of the boys. Diana's friend s NEVER did this to Charles.

[amabel]

Diana was not always the darling of the tabloids. There was the article by Tina Brown, The Mouse that Roared that was highly critical. Nigel Dempster consistently badmouthed Diana and he was squarely in Charles camp.

Charles had Camilla host parties at Highgrove (when Diana still was married to him), Camila redecorated Highgrove, Charles gave Diana cheap trinkets and Camilla diamonds and Diana was made well aware of this, Charles put down Diana in public. I don't think it 'normal" for a mistress to usurp a wife's place. No other royal mistress was IMO this tacky. Diana was perfectly entitled to redecorate Highgrove since she lived t heir as Charles wife. Camilla as a mistress had no rights nor should have been allowed to act as "wife."

And it was not known C and D would divorce until the Queen ordered it in 1995.

James Gilbey never said this publicly. Where was this quoted. He made some comments about how Diana was treated by the family but never went into Charlees' fathering skills.What you are contending Amabel is not true. Diana's close friends NEVER publicly badmouthed Charles for his fathering skills. NEVER. 

well I've certianly read it somewhere that Gilbey said that Di felt Charles was a bad father. I can't remember where. 

[sandy]

Diana's friends never publicly downgraded Charles parenting Skills.  They complained about how Diana was treated but never "went there" about the parenting skills.

[dianab]

Nope the redecorating by Camilla was happening since 1980s.

The comment by James Gilbey is related to accident of William in 1990s, when he was taken to hospital. And Charles choiced goes to opera, the press also bad-mouthed Charles for his behavior. James Gilbey only talked what the papers already commented since 1980s, that Charles was a distant father.

YES, Camilla was in close contact wth The Sun/Stuart Higgins since 1982-1983 - her campagn against Diana. (Read the Bradford book)

[sandy]

And it is not known if Diana rang up Gilby and "told him" to badmouth Charles. It was by no means a pattern. Since NONE of Diana's closest friends: Monckton, Bartholomew Santa Cruz and Bower ever badmouthed Charles and his parenting skills. Charles did do a stupid thing by leaving WIlls but Diana never said that as a result of this he was a "bad father." BTW it was said Camilla advised Charles to go to the opera instead of staying with his son.

[dianab]

I'm sorry Sandy, one of best friends of Diana was Lucia Flecha de Lima, wife of a Brasilliam ambassador.

Lucia Santa Cruz is person of Charles circle.

I remember this comment of James Gilbey in one of Morton books (Her True Story or Her New Life)

If you read the transcripts of their tape, he obviously knows a lot of things, including about Charles as a father.

I never read Camilla was involved in this episode, yes Charles himself thinks his behavior was normal.

I dont think Lucia Flecha de Lima and Rosa Monckton, are sort of persons would bad-mouthed the anyone else from the establishment, specially a future king. In same way I'm not surprised, they dont know of problems between Diana & Prince Philip (ie: Diana talked to Susan Kassen & Hasnat Khan, I think Lady Bowker, she hadnt a good relationship with him).

[sandy]

Sorry about that. I sometimes get them confused. I knew something was "off".

Yes, but mostly Diana complained to Gilbey about  how she was treated and how she was not appreciated. She said she got looks from the Queen Mum and she thought it was sympathy. She misread that since the Queen Mum didn't care for her and was at the time letting C and C use one of her homes as a safe house. I don't think Gilbey was as "steady" a friend as the women friends Diana had. THey weren't shy about complaining about Diana's treatment and Rosa Monckton complained about Camilla wanting to go to the Memorial Service. But Diana's BFFs never openly attacked Charles as a bad father.

Diana did comment that Charles was a good father on several occasions. However, let's say she didn't feel this way and "told" her friends to badmouth Charles as a father. I think she would put herself in jeopardy as having custody, and Charles friends had openly questioned her sanity already imagine the skewering she would take. The children technically belong to the Crown and Diana would certainly put herself in jeopardy if she openly made an attack on Charles' parenting skills.

What she did question was Charles and the "top job" (saying it put limitations on him). She never told Bashir Charles was a rotten father and never said this to Settelen in those tapes.

I do believe Diana was sincere in saying Charles was a good father to their boys.

[dianab]

Agree with you.
For me the behavior/spin of Charles via-friends-sycophants was very coward, he knows hadn't nothing to lost, contrary to Diana.

I think James Gilbey knows a lot, I think she knows him, different of other persons in her circle, wasnt loyalties to establishment. For understand he also was/is very close friends with Mara Berni as Diana was. Do you remember the things he talked about Sarah Ferguson? I think Diana felt at easy open up with him about a lot of things. I think he know well enough, at least, the world Diana lived.

But I think Lucia Flecha de Lima knows a lot. I think she & Diana truly loved each other as mother & daughter. Her love for Diana was genuine & really true. For read in inquest, she seems regret have introduced Rosa Monckton, she (Lucia Flecha de Lima) was to great/big pains for say Diana dont trusted in Rosa Monckton.

[cinrit]

James Gilbey never said this publicly. Where was this quoted. He made some comments about how Diana was treated by the family but never went into Charlees' fathering skills.What you are contending Amabel is not true. Diana's close friends NEVER publicly badmouthed Charles for his fathering skills. NEVER.  

Amabel could have been mistaken (but wasn't ... apparently Gilbey was quoted in a book), but what she's saying isn't "not true", which insinuates that she's lying.  I hope we don't start this "what you're saying isn't true" type stuff again. :(

Cindy

[sandy]

Cindy, you say I make accusations. Yet you imply I called another poster a "liar." A bit of a stretch Cindy and again putting words in my mouth and making insinuations about my motives.

All I know is there is NO evidence taht Diana said hey (Elsa, Caroline, etc) go and badmouth Charles as a father. Saying there is no evidence is not calling another poster a liar. Also because in some book, Gilbey said this, does not mean Diana "told him" to say it which was the premise of Amabel's post. There is no evidence that Gilbey was "put up" by Diana to say this. None whatsoeve3r. And this doesn't mean Cindy I am calling ANYBODY a liar. That's your interpretation  and  once again you accuse me of something I didn't do.

The "truth" would be if there are facts to back it up. Like some tape of Diana's or Diana herself saying this. None of her friends said Diana told me to say this. It just isn't out there.  So saying something is not true, is just that--if there is nothing to back it up ,it is not true.  Even the Gilbey quote does not mean Diana put him up to it.

If you recall Cindy, Amabel was saying that Diana told her friends to badmouth Charles. I said there was no evidence. I am addressing the topic Cindy. Am I not allowed to say there is no evidence for something and get really unfair accusations hurled at me. Again, I asked you before please stop making accusations and putting your own spin on my posts.


I also explained (if you had read the post) that no way would Diana put up friends to badmouth Charles' parenting skills. Even if she gnashed her teeth over it (which I doubt) why would she jeopardize having joint custody by putting herself in the position of questioning Charles' parenting skills. As I said Charles' friends hurled accusations of madness at Diana (Soames, et al) and she was fearful of losing custody. Why would she jeopardize this by doing something llike that. Diana always publicly said Charles was a good father.

[sandy]

Diana had opportunities to badmouth Charles' parenting particularly in the supposed "confidential" Settelen tapes. She didn't.

It is not a "fact" Diana badmouthed Charles as a parent publicly nor put people up to it. When William was born she said he was 'hands on"--they did interviews together about the children. Both loved their children and neither said publicly the other was a bad parent.  This never happened.

[cinrit]

Cindy, you say I make accusations. Yet you imply I called another poster a "liar." A bit of a stretch Cindy and again putting words in my mouth and making insinuations about my motives.

I didn't say that.  I pointed out your phrasing.  Phrasing can either insinuate or correct.  "What you're saying is not true" sounds much worse than "you're mistaken".  As for the rest of it, I'm reading the same things over and over once again.  And so, once again, I'm taking a vacation from this thread.  There are much nicer things going on in the world than to harbor resentments 30 years old.

Cindy

[sandy]

You did use the words "that insinuates she's lying." It's there in your post. And it was not my intention. I was looking over the evidence which doesn't bear out the supposition about Diana urging her friends to blast Charles as a bad father. And there is no evidence that Diana did this and was such a "monster."

If there is no evidence that Diana did something that she is accused of doing, it is not a fact or true. That's what I'm saying.

[Trudie]

There was no campaign or if there was, it was pretty unsuccessful becauase for all of the 80s Diana was the darling of the tabloids.  If Camilla spoke to them, and bad mouthed Diana (wihch I gather is not clear) then she signally failed to put out anything that harmed Diana... for many years, Diana coudl do no wrong with the tabloids and thte public.  Clearly Charl'es "campaign" was a dismal failure.

Charles flaunted his mistress?  How does this set with the fact that as servatns have siad, he got them to fib for him, when he was visiting Camilla?  as for redecorating IIRC Charles redecorated Highgrove when he and Di separated, and Diana did the same with her KP apartments.. (normal behavior in a divorced or separating couple)....

James Giblbey is quoted as saying that Diana thought that Charles was a bad father, a selfish father... wasn't he a friend of Dianas?

The badmouthing of Diana started around 1986 and their was plenty of unflattering articles before the including as Sandy said Tina Browns which coincided with their trip to the White House where Diana famously danced with Travolta  and again Nigel Dempster published a story calling Diana a monster and a fiend.

How did Charles Flaunt his mistress when he broke his arm playing polo he made it quite clear to Diana that he would recuperate at Highgrove with Camilla looking after him. As for the Gilbey yes he did say that in Diana her true story that Charles was a bad father, a selfish father the children have to tie in with him. That was after Charles went to the opera when William was hit with the golf club and had to have surgery. I think he was saying what the papers were saying at that time questioning Charles as a parent. No one else interviewed for the Morton book said anything negative regarding Charles parenting skills and Diana did not speak to Gilbey or stand by him after that. Sandy is right there is no evidence that Diana told her friends to bad mouth Charles as a parent.

[Trudie]

Cindy, you say I make accusations. Yet you imply I called another poster a "liar." A bit of a stretch Cindy and again putting words in my mouth and making insinuations about my motives.

I didn't say that.  I pointed out your phrasing.  Phrasing can either insinuate or correct.  "What you're saying is not true" sounds much worse than "you're mistaken".  As for the rest of it, I'm reading the same things over and over once again.  And so, once again, I'm taking a vacation from this thread.  There are much nicer things going on in the world than to harbor resentments 30 years old.

Cindy
[/quotes
Is this supposed to be a class?. Have a nice vacation.  :hula:  :laugh10: I am vacationing myself by watching the wedding I plan to lounge and chill on my mini trip to London via HD TV.  :happyuk: :coach: :laugh10:

[Hale]

This topic is locked because it has become too long.

Part 4 can be found here.