Diana's death, the funeral and the investigation into her death

[amabel]

IMHO having the heir and the heir-to-the-heir serve in the military in a non-combat role utilizing the skills that they learned during their training would be an acceptable alternative to having them in  a combat role. AFAIK not one of the 20th or 21st century designated heirs to the throne were involved in combat. They've mostly been limited to non-combat ones. (Although Jordan's King Abdullah II did reportedly have a combat role, he was not the designated heir to the throne at the time.)

I think that perhaps Will's painful memory of Diana's death did lead him to go for the Role in SAR that he ended up in...It was using the skills he had learned in his time in the Military... and as an heir to the throne he would never have been allowed to get into combat...

[TLLK]

Military training also gives the Royal Heads of State a broader understanding of the roles that each branch of their nation's armed forces as each are typically the head of in costitutional monarchies.

[amabel]

Military training also gives the Royal Heads of State a broader understanding of the roles that each branch of their nation's armed forces as each are typically the head of in costitutional monarchies.

Yes they have to do some military service, so as to preserve the link between the armed forces and the crown..

[oak_and_cedar]

Princess Diana's fatal injury was tiny, just in the wrong place, says DR RICHARD SHEPHERD | Daily Mail Online

According to this doctor she had a specific injury that was very unusual. Besides that there were other factors that added to the outcome such a the time it took to get her to the hospital, if I understood him correctly.

Sounds reasonable to me. She was the princess of Wales. Why wasn't she given more priority? By that I mean rushed to the hospital etc. There are footballers, celebs etc. that are given more "top notch" treatment than she did.

I also wanted to add, that NO ONE should wait for that long to get to a hospital. Ridiculous in my opinion.

The idea that they should have traveled in that second rate car should have been dismissed. Foolish idea, in my opinion.

[amabel]

That's funny that he said that Trevor RJ was wearing a seat belt, since I understnad that the evidence reviewed at the later inquest said that no one was wearing one.
And a "tiny tear"?  As far as I know her heart was pushed right out of where it shoud be,  to the other side of her chest.  hrdly a small injury

[Curryong]

There were lots of things that should and shouldn't have happened on that fateful night. However, from what I understand the French ambulances are set up very differently to UK and US ones, more like mini operating theatres in a way. And so Diana was being given treatment on the way to the hospital which necessitated the ambulance slowing down and almost stopping at times. There's a whole thread on here about the accident and the treatment Diana received afterwards actually.

[amabel]

There were lots of things that should and shouldn't have happened on that fateful night. However, from what I understand the French ambulances are set up very differently to UK and US ones, more like mini operating theatres in a way. And so Diana was being given treatment on the way to the hospital which necessitated the ambulance slowing down and almost stopping at times. There's a whole thread on here about the accident and the treatment Diana received afterwards actually.

The main thing that should not have happened was using an untrained, unlicensed driver who had had a couple of drinks..not having a back up car,  and people should have belted up. I didn't read all that article as it seemed to be mostly about other cases but from what was said I thought at the inquest  was that NONE of the passangers had been belted in.. and that was a very thorough investigation... And from what I can recall, Diana's heart was pushed right out of place... so it was a very serious injury.
She had a heart attack when they took her out of the car, and that meant they had to stop and stabilise her, and she had other heart attacks in the ambulance, which meant they had to slow down or stop to stabilise her.  Had they not done so, she would have died in the ambulance...
An

[TLLK]

Princess Diana's fatal injury was tiny, just in the wrong place, says DR RICHARD SHEPHERD | Daily Mail Online

According to this doctor she had a specific injury that was very unusual. Besides that there were other factors that added to the outcome such a the time it took to get her to the hospital, if I understood him correctly.

Sounds reasonable to me. She was the princess of Wales. Why wasn't she given more priority? By that I mean rushed to the hospital etc. There are footballers, celebs etc. that are given more "top notch" treatment than she did.

I also wanted to add, that NO ONE should wait for that long to get to a hospital. Ridiculous in my opinion.

The idea that they should have traveled in that second rate car should have been dismissed. Foolish idea, in my opinion.

There are two types of emergency care practices that are used in the Western World and both are highly regarded and respected by medical professionals for different reasons. The first is Scoop and run -UK, USA, Australia, Canada (English speaking nations). Patient is treated by paramedics/ambulance team who start emergency treatment and then quickly transport the patient to the nearest hospital that has an emergency room. Paramedics are in contact with doctors who advise them and await their arrival.



Second option- Stay and Play- Practiced in France, Germany, the Netherlands etc..The emergency room comes to the patient. A portable ER and its team (ER doctor, nurses etc..) come to the site of the accident/emergency. Patient is treated on site with the notion that it is best to provide the care immediately. Often times the patient doesn't need to be admitted to the hospital as they've already been treated by the ER team.  If patient needs to be transported, it is done slowly to not disrupt the continued work of the team. Patient is transported to  the nearest hospital with ER/trauma facility.

Both practices are considered to be excellent and have similar successful patient outcomes.

Diana's injury was initially small but as she was being removed from the interior of the car, she had to be positioned in a semi-seated placement in order to extract her. At that time, the tear opened and she went into cardiac arrest. The ER doctor on site made the responsible choice to stabilize her. She couldn't be safely transported until they'd been able to resume a stable heart rate.

Diana was transported slowly because the slightest movements were  observed to be sending her into cardiac arrest. She was then transported to the nearest hospital with trauma care. The closer hospitals didn't provide that type of service.

Regarding her injury, trauma care physicians were in agreement that her injury was fatal. :no:

Her initial period of consciousness and initial survival after the accident is characteristic of a tear to a vital vein. Anatomically, it?s hidden away, deep in the centre of the chest.

Veins, of course, are not subject to the same high-pressure pumping as arteries. They bleed much more slowly. In fact, they bleed so slowly that identifying the problem is hard enough. And, if it is identified, repairing it is even harder.

Her specific injury is so rare that in my entire career I don?t believe I?ve seen another.

Diana?s was a very small injury ? but in the wrong place. Diana?s death is a classic example of the way we say, after almost every death: if only. If only she had hit the seat in front at a slightly different angle. If only she had been thrown forward 10mph more slowly.

If only she had been put in an ambulance immediately. But the biggest if only, in Diana?s case, was within her own control.

If only she had been wearing a seat belt. Had she been restrained, she would probably have appeared in public two days later with a black eye, perhaps a bit breathless from the fractured ribs and with a broken arm in a sling.

The pathology of her death is, I believe, indisputable. But around that tiny, fatal tear in a pulmonary vein are woven many other facts, some of which are sufficiently opaque to allow a multitude of theories to blossom.

But I entirely concurred with the findings of the inquiry. It was a tragic accident.

[amabel]

It seems to me that there's a big difference between a tear in a vein.. and someone's heart being pushed right out of place.. They might both be fatal, but if her heart was indeed shoved out of place, the impact was incredibly severe....

[sandy]

The main thing that should not have happened was using an untrained, unlicensed driver who had had a couple of drinks..not having a back up car,  and people should have belted up. I didn't read all that article as it seemed to be mostly about other cases but from what was said I thought at the inquest  was that NONE of the passangers had been belted in.. and that was a very thorough investigation... And from what I can recall, Diana's heart was pushed right out of place... so it was a very serious injury.
She had a heart attack when they took her out of the car, and that meant they had to stop and stabilise her, and she had other heart attacks in the ambulance, which meant they had to slow down or stop to stabilise her.  Had they not done so, she would have died in the ambulance...
An

Trevor Rees Jones has amnesia. So he can't tell us why he belted himself up and neglected to have all buckle up or better yet check the safety belts. Every man for himself his motto

There were reports that the seatbelts would not buckle up and how extraordinary that Diana always buckled up routinely and did not do it that one night. Makes no sense. Yet people still try to pin it on Diana. Shameful
Double post auto-merged: April 07, 2019, 01:50:21 PM

There are two types of emergency care practices that are used in the Western World and both are highly regarded and respected by medical professionals for different reasons. The first is Scoop and run -UK, USA, Australia, Canada (English speaking nations). Patient is treated by paramedics/ambulance team who start emergency treatment and then quickly transport the patient to the nearest hospital that has an emergency room. Paramedics are in contact with doctors who advise them and await their arrival.



Second option- Stay and Play- Practiced in France, Germany, the Netherlands etc..The emergency room comes to the patient. A portable ER and its team (ER doctor, nurses etc..) come to the site of the accident/emergency. Patient is treated on site with the notion that it is best to provide the care immediately. Often times the patient doesn't need to be admitted to the hospital as they've already been treated by the ER team.  If patient needs to be transported, it is done slowly to not disrupt the continued work of the team. Patient is transported to  the nearest hospital with ER/trauma facility.

Both practices are considered to be excellent and have similar successful patient outcomes.

Diana's injury was initially small but as she was being removed from the interior of the car, she had to be positioned in a semi-seated placement in order to extract her. At that time, the tear opened and she went into cardiac arrest. The ER doctor on site made the responsible choice to stabilize her. She couldn't be safely transported until they'd been able to resume a stable heart rate.

Diana was transported slowly because the slightest movements were  observed to be sending her into cardiac arrest. She was then transported to the nearest hospital with trauma care. The closer hospitals didn't provide that type of service.

Regarding her injury, trauma care physicians were in agreement that her injury was fatal. :no:

Diana needed to get to a hospital operating table and two hospitals were passed on route. So the "treatment" she got was pathetic. In the US she would have been airlifted to the Nearest HOspital. I see no excuses for inept medical care.

That ambulance was no substitute for an operating room.

[amabel]

so if people tried to buckle up, how come they dind't say that they wanted another car with functioning seat belts?

[sandy]

The man has amnesia now and the others are dead. How can it be determined.

[TLLK]

It seems to me that there's a big difference between a tear in a vein.. and someone's heart being pushed right out of place.. They might both be fatal, but if her heart was indeed shoved out of place, the impact was incredibly severe....

Yes and unfortunately for Diana this occurred as she was an unrestrained passenger who was in a car crash. The impact killed two people immediately.

[amabel]

The man has amnesia now and the others are dead. How can it be determined.

I think it is obvious that no one tried to belt up.. if you usually wear a belt and you get into a car where the belts are not working you get out and wiat for a new car

[amabel]

There are reports the seatbelts malfunctioned. DIana's own sisters and people who knew her said she Always Buckled UP. So this seems very strange to me. The security guard has amnesia he seemed to be thinking every man for himself and not seeing the belts were functioning and how did he let the "drunk" driver behind the wheel. the overly slow ambulance that passed Two Hospitals did her in. HEart experts have said so publicly.

Dodi was the one who chose the plan of having Henri Paul drive.. and if Rhys Jones had tried to overrule him, Dodi would have just gone ahead without him...

[TLLK]

@oak_and_cedar - Here is one of the threads that @Curryong referred to in her post.

Diana worn seatbelt she would have been at Harry?s wedding says pathologist

[sandy]

If Rees Jones smelled a lot of alcohol on Paul he would not have let him drive. And if the others smelled it he would have been stopped. The guard has amnesia and can't tell. There were mix ups in the test results for Henri Paul and if he drank so much he was seen deftly tying his shoes after he allegedly was "drunk."

[amabel]

There are reports the seatbelts malfunctioned. DIana's own sisters and people who knew her said she Always Buckled UP. So this seems very strange to me. The security guard has amnesia he seemed to be thinking every man for himself and not seeing the belts were functioning and how did he let the "drunk" driver behind the wheel. the overly slow ambulance that passed Two Hospitals did her in. HEart experts have said so publicly

Why is it obvious amabel? You were not there and the only witness has amnesia.  HOw do you know DIana did not pull the belt over and it did not work to "click in." There were reports the seatbelts did not work. Blaming Diana seems to be the "excuse" used when there were so many unexplained circumstances and the only witness conveniently can't remember.

so if she pulled the belt over and it failed to click.. all she had to do was say "this belt's not working.. " and then "I'm not going in this car if I dotn have a seat belt..."

[wannable]

The only one wearing a seatbelt was the sole survivor.

[sandy]

He has amnesia so he can't explain why. Was it every man for himself. He was negligent if he did not ensure the others belted up.

This is another series of trashing DIana that it was HER fault that she died. Utter nonsense.

Double post auto-merged: April 07, 2019, 02:20:44 PM

This is another point of view. By an expert

'They should have saved Diana's life' - Telegraph

[amabel]

If Rees Jones smelled a lot of alcohol on Paul he would not have let him drive. And if the others smelled it he would have been stopped. The guard has amnesia and can't tell. There were mix ups in the test results for Henri Paul and if he drank so much he was seen deftly tying his shoes after he allegedly was "drunk."

He wasn't "Drunk" necessarily but he had had a couple of dirnks.. he was not a trained driver.. and he had also been taking Prozac..   According to the guards, Paul was smoiking a cigar which would have masked the smell of one or 2 drinks..
It wasn't up to Trevor Jones, It was Dodi's plan and the guards were not happy with it.. but Dodi was the one in charge. H Paul wasn't a trained driver.  He wasn't a driver at all and he had been off duty.. so he had had a couple of drinks.. but he was not likely to admit this to Dodi, htat he had been dirnking and could not drive...
Double post auto-merged: April 07, 2019, 02:23:33 PM

He has amnesia so he can't explain why. Was it every man for himself. He was negligent if he did not ensure the others belted up.

This is another series of trashing DIana that it was HER fault that she died. Utter nonsense.

Double post auto-merged: April 07, 2019, 02:20:44 PM

This is another point of view. By an expert

'They should have saved Diana's life' - Telegraph

If she ahd had a seat belt on, she would have had a better chance of survival. 

[oak_and_cedar]

@Curryong @TLLK Thank you both for mentioning and giving link to the other thread.
I just thought that this dr. had another take on it so I thought i'd bring it up.

Double post auto-merged: April 07, 2019, 03:02:02 PM

There are two types of emergency care practices that are used in the Western World and both are highly regarded and respected by medical professionals for different reasons. The first is Scoop and run -UK, USA, Australia, Canada (English speaking nations). Patient is treated by paramedics/ambulance team who start emergency treatment and then quickly transport the patient to the nearest hospital that has an emergency room. Paramedics are in contact with doctors who advise them and await their arrival.



Second option- Stay and Play- Practiced in France, Germany, the Netherlands etc..The emergency room comes to the patient. A portable ER and its team (ER doctor, nurses etc..) come to the site of the accident/emergency. Patient is treated on site with the notion that it is best to provide the care immediately. Often times the patient doesn't need to be admitted to the hospital as they've already been treated by the ER team.  If patient needs to be transported, it is done slowly to not disrupt the continued work of the team. Patient is transported to  the nearest hospital with ER/trauma facility.

Both practices are considered to be excellent and have similar successful patient outcomes.

Diana's injury was initially small but as she was being removed from the interior of the car, she had to be positioned in a semi-seated placement in order to extract her. At that time, the tear opened and she went into cardiac arrest. The ER doctor on site made the responsible choice to stabilize her. She couldn't be safely transported until they'd been able to resume a stable heart rate.

Diana was transported slowly because the slightest movements were  observed to be sending her into cardiac arrest. She was then transported to the nearest hospital with trauma care. The closer hospitals didn't provide that type of service.

Regarding her injury, trauma care physicians were in agreement that her injury was fatal. :no:

In my opinion, patients should not be treated by paramedics only when the injuries are so severe. Surgeons and trauma doctors undergo entirely different education and they are the ones "fit" to deal with this sort of thing.

Diana should have been transported IMMEDIATELY to a hospital and been dealt with by the appropriate personel in my opinion.

Weren't there other doctors, such as that Barnard guy who said she could be saved?



Double post auto-merged: April 07, 2019, 03:02:39 PM

It seems to me that there's a big difference between a tear in a vein.. and someone's heart being pushed right out of place.. They might both be fatal, but if her heart was indeed shoved out of place, the impact was incredibly severe....

I'm not entirely sure but didn't this sort of injury occur in other accidents. So it was hardly "unusual" so to speak.

[amabel]

Its not whether it was unusual or not. THe point is that it was a very serious injury and very possible that her life could not be saved.  She could not be transported to hospital fast because she had heart attacks in the ambulance.  Removing her from the car had been a difficult operation and had caused a heart attack.  Any movement was clearly dangerous for her so they had to go slowly and stop when she went into cardiac arrest, to stabilise her...

[TLLK]

I'm not entirely sure but didn't this sort of injury occur in other accidents. So it was hardly "unusual" so to speak.

While I believe that it is true that this type of injury has occurred in past accidents, according to the surgeon who wrote the article it is rare to come across one during a typical career.

[oak_and_cedar]

Its not whether it was unusual or not. THe point is that it was a very serious injury and very possible that her life could not be saved.  She could not be transported to hospital fast because she had heart attacks in the ambulance.  Removing her from the car had been a difficult operation and had caused a heart attack.  Any movement was clearly dangerous for her so they had to go slowly and stop when she went into cardiac arrest, to stabilise her...

It was possible that her life could not have been saved. But then again it could have been possible that it would.
Doctors treat severe injuries all the time. It does not neccessarily mean a death sentence, in my opinion.
Don't remember where I read it but didn't they drive by hospital because they didn't have the "appropriate" doctors there?
If they wanted to go slow why didn't they go to the nearest hospital and then rush the doctors there instead?
Why didn't they airlift her? They could still be working on stabilizing her there and she would have reached any hospital sooner.