King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra and Family Discussion

snokitty · February 21, 2015, 10:26:24 PM

Prince Eddy The King We Never Had - YouTube

Curryong · February 21, 2015, 10:51:55 PM

Quote from: snokitty on February 21, 2015, 10:26:24 PM
Prince Eddy The King We Never Had - YouTube

I occasionally lurk at the Alexander Palace Forum, which discusses historical royal figures of the past and present, especially Romanovs. There is a thread on there devoted to Prince Eddy and some of the posters definitely have a crush!

He doesn't do anything for me, but his death sets up one of those fascinating 'What if's ..?' of history. He and Mary Teck would undoubtedly have had children but there would have been no Abdication and no Queen Elizabeth II.

amabel · February 22, 2015, 10:07:25 AM

Its not a given that he and Princess Mary of Teck would have had children. Probably, but not certain.. esp given that Edy had probably managed to contract a few social diseases. He might have given her something more than pregnancy.
TBH I find it hard to imagine his becoming King. I suppose he would have, but given his extreme stupidity, to the point of learning disability, I think that maybe terr WOULD have been an abdication or something because he was so unsuitable to be king. Cant see why anyone would have a "crush" on him, as he was borderline retarded, odd looking and if he had a kindly enough nature that was all you could say in his favour.
If he had married P May, they might have had children and then - well who knows? but if they didn't George V would have happened, and his children would be heirs. We don't know if he would have had a son like the Duke of Windsor, with another wife...

Curryong · February 22, 2015, 10:24:58 AM

Yes, I can't imagine Eddy as king either. Granted, he may have inherited his mother's congenital deafness as well as maybe having a learning disability which might account for the lethargy. However, on the whole, I think Britain and the Crown missed a bullet with that prince's death. George and Mary were a much better 'fit'.

And yes, I do think he was rather odd-looking. There's no accounting for tastes!

amabel · February 22, 2015, 10:50:43 AM

I wonder if he would have become king.. I can't help feeling that even back then, the RF and the people might have felt that his really really serious stupidity would have been enought ot try to disbar him from the succession. The idea of his marrying May was to settle him down and provide him with an intelligent wife who would make up for his shortcomings.. but I think it would have been a herculean job for her. Maybe they could have persuaded him to abdicate? Or maybe they would have had no children due to Eddy's er problems with social diseases which would make a pregnancy unwise.
so if that happened, George would have become King in due course. he might still have had an irresponsible son like David, and the abdication might stil have happened.

Curryong · February 22, 2015, 11:26:24 AM

So much was kept under wraps about royal figures in those days, wasn't it? It is hard to know. I actually have a biography of Eddy, in which letters written by him to friends appear reasonably sensible. I know James Stephen, his university tutor said of him that 'he scarcely knows the words 'to read,' but of course Stephen was an academic and there might have been just a bit of exaggeration there!

I do think his dissolute lifestyle caused his father some anxiety. Would it have caused an abdication? Who knows!

His new fiancée Mary did remark despairingly to her mother 'Do you think I can do this, Mama?' and it certainly seemed as if the family expected sensible May to keep Eddy on the straight and narrow in all senses. Of course if he had syphilis, as distinct from other STD's, then degeneration and death would presumably have occurred before his father died.

Would he have left an heir? That is speculative isn't it? The Arch Duke Rudolf of Austria Hungary infected his wife and they only had the one child, a daughter, because of it. It may have been the same with Eddy and May.

amabel · February 22, 2015, 11:33:27 AM

well yes of course things were kept under wraps. And Eddy was IMO a real problem. I think that his tutor probably mean that he didn't read at all except for absolute necessary. Edw VII was far from clever or academic and rarely read except novels.. but he was not so dumb as Eddy..
i' have never heard of May saying this, but she did agree to the marriage and was probably thinking of being queen.. It was indeed expected that she would improve Eddy and make him seem less of a mess, but I do wonder if they would in the end have had to get rid of him. Many European monarchies didn't survive WWI, so I'd say that if Eddy had been king then, maybe the British one would not have, either. I think that George V was solid and popular in a dull "decent Englishman" sort of way and that helped to save the monarchy.
Its posislbe that Ed's health was affected by his sexual diseases and that's why he succumbed to pneumonia and possibly that might have happened some few years later, if he had caught some other illness...Depends on whtehr he had fathered an heir...

Curryong · February 22, 2015, 11:59:07 AM

After Eddy's death the Tecks were left in a rather awkward position, of course. May must have been quite embarrassed at her rather peculiar father chanting repeatedly at Sandringham 'It must be a Tsarevitch, it must be a Tsarevitch!' A reference of course to the Empress of Russia, Alexandra's sister, who had married the future Alexander III after her fiancé, his older brother, had died.

Things did work out in the end for May, in the same way, so it was all's well that ends well, especially as she and Eddy weren't at all in love!

amabel · March 24, 2015, 10:07:24 AM

I WONDER if May was in love with George...

Curryong · March 24, 2015, 10:43:31 AM

Quote from: amabel on March 24, 2015, 10:07:24 AM
I WONDER if May was in love with George...

I don't think either of them ere in love. Didn't he write her a letter a couple of years into the marriage stating that though he had been very fond of her he hadn't had those romantic sort of feelings 'but now I adore you, dearest May!'

It turned out to be the best sort of arranged marriage, I think. May certainly got a better bargain with George, all things considered.

LouisFerdinand · January 06, 2016, 03:23:37 AM

King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra: formal public processions
Formal public processions involving King Edward VII, Queen Alexandra, and Princes...HD Stock Footage - YouTube

LouisFerdinand · February 14, 2016, 01:01:05 AM

Albert Victor Christian Edward was the heir of Albert Edward, The Prince of Wales.
One of Prince Albert Victor's instructors said Prince Eddy learnt by listening rather than reading or writing and had no difficulty remembering information. He did like to play polo.

Curryong · February 14, 2016, 01:09:00 AM

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on February 14, 2016, 01:01:05 AM
Albert Victor Christian Edward was the heir of Albert Edward, The Prince of Wales.
One of Prince Albert Victor's instructors said Prince Eddy learnt by listening rather than reading or writing and had no difficulty remembering information. He did like to play polo.

^ He certainly had a good memory and also didn't excel in the schoolroom at any time. I didn't know he enjoyed polo! Altogether though, AV was a rather dozy and unsatisfactory individual and I do think Britain dodged a bullet by his early death, even though it was terrible for his family.

amabel · February 14, 2016, 10:24:28 AM

I don't know who said he had a good memory, because everyone else who had to do with him says that he was basically mentally challenged. He was lazy and dim witted and I don't believe that he would have been capable of doing the Royal job at all. And he was seen as lethargic and half asleep all the time.
Playing polo is not really necessary for being King.. I don't believe that even Q Mary would have been able to "bring him up to scratch" as a king

Curryong · February 14, 2016, 10:36:48 AM

^ I have read a biography of Prince AV that stated that he had good recall of people he might have met only once which is a good thing for a Royal to have, I suppose. His letters are surprisingly articulate, but I agree he was strangely lethargic and uninterested.

amabel · February 14, 2016, 10:51:27 AM

I think that Royals are usually prompted to do this, ie if they are meeting people they'll be given info on them, sot hat they can sound like they really remember them
It sounds odd that his letters are articulate if pretty much everyone who has written about him agrees that he was lethargic, not at all intelligent and that he was courting several young women at the same time...(putting this politely I suspect it Means that one of his few interests was sex!)
Perhaps someone wrote his letters for him? Or helped him?

Curryong · February 16, 2016, 12:39:00 AM

Quote from: amabel on February 14, 2016, 10:51:27 AM
I think that Royals are usually prompted to do this, ie if they are meeting people they'll be given info on them, sot hat they can sound like they really remember them
It sounds odd that his letters are articulate if pretty much everyone who has written about him agrees that he was lethargic, not at all intelligent and that he was courting several young women at the same time...(putting this politely I suspect it Means that one of his few interests was sex!)
Perhaps someone wrote his letters for him? Or helped him?

^ Prince Eddie may have had help with his official correspondence (I can't remember whether he had a Private Secretary or not) but those few letters that I have read were to private friends/colleagues. His adoring fan club on the Alexander Time Machine Forum do think that a form of congenital deafness inherited from his mother Alexandra was mostly to blame for his perceived 'doziness' but I'm not so sure!

amabel · February 16, 2016, 10:30:35 AM

well perhaps he wasn't absolutely mentally challenged and yes he was rather deaf but still, I don't think that so many people who knew him, (bearing in mind that royals are usually flattered) would say he was lethargic and not very bright, if it weren't so.
I'd say if he was not very good at anyting, like writing, the RF might have ensured that he had someone to help even with private letters, not wanting him to look too bad...

Curryong · February 16, 2016, 12:57:46 PM

^ This is one of Prince Eddy's letters written to Lady Sybil St Clair Erskine, the 19 year old daughter of the Earl of Rosslyn, in the summer of 1891 when AV was supposedly deeply in love with the Princess Helene d' Orleans whom he wished to marry.

' I thought it impossible a short time ago to love more than one person at the same time, and I believe according to things in general it should be so, but I do feel that exceptions will happen at times. I can explain it easier to you when next we meet than by writing.

I can only hope and trust that this charming creature' (Lady Sibyl) 'who has so fascinated me is not merely playing with my feelings....I can't believe she would after what she has already said and asked me to say...If one could only transplant oneself now and then and all of a sudden appear before the person one most wishes to see how delightful that would be! I am sure that if only it were possible the world would be a great deal happier than it is. Don't you think so?'

Prince Eddy asked Lady Sybil to make sure to destroy the coat of arms and signature on all his letters (which obviously she didn't do) as 'You can't be too careful what you do in these days, when hardly anybody is to be trusted.'

Putting aside his writing to a young girl when he supposedly wished to be engaged to another, I don't think Prince Eddy would be getting help from anyone in composing this letter, under the circumstances. Anyway, his phrasing is similar in letters to other people.

amabel · February 16, 2016, 03:09:10 PM

True, he was a bit of a philanaderr and some say bisexual as well. But there were books on writing letters, maybe he copied some of the phrases!

Curryong · February 16, 2016, 04:26:49 PM

"He is pleasing, talks well and will be popular when he gets more at ease" was the opinion of Henry Pononby, who noted this privately to his wife when Prince AV was 19. In spite of Ponsonby being Private Secretary to Queen Victoria, he was no respecter of Royal rank, quite the reverse in fact.

The Prince's reported conversations in the biographies Ive read don't appear to show mental dullness, just a languid quality. Yes, I think his brother George was a much more incisive and active character but, in spite of being an uninterested pupil during his schooldays, I don't believe Prince Eddy was mentally challenged. I just think he was an indulged, louche, dozy and unintellectual young man, who may have had a hearing problem.

LouisFerdinand · November 06, 2016, 01:36:03 AM

Edward VII and Alexandra and their daughters Victoria and Maud were at the quayside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snocUFclmDQE

LouisFerdinand · November 28, 2017, 12:07:08 AM

King Edward VII opened his first Parliament in 1901.
King Edward VII Opens His First Parliament (1901) - YouTube

LouisFerdinand · February 21, 2018, 07:58:05 PM

Queen Alexandra participated in Queen Alexandra's Rose Day in 1917.
Roses for the Rose Queen, 1917 - YouTube

LouisFerdinand · December 17, 2021, 08:24:05 PM

The exclusive Rannelagh Polo Club moved from Fulham to Barn Elms in 1884. Was Prince Albert Victor a member of The Rannelagh Polo Club?

:polo: :polo: :polo: :polo: :polo: :polo: :polo: :polo: :polo: :polo: