Diana's Life and charity endavours - what could have been

[Curryong]

but that's not the point.  the point is that Diana was restricted in how much time she saw the children because they were at Boarding school... and because they had to spend time with the queen and their father as well.

It is the point, because the narrative painted by you in your posts is that Diana had too much time on her heads away from her boys, by 1996 was burned out and uninterested by the engagements she had carried out for fifteen years, and therefore her private life became messy.

That is in spite of several people pointing out the charity work and endeavours she performed and was planning to follow in 1996/1997 and beyond, chopped short by her death.

Restricted family time happens with all parents who send their children off to boarding school early. Charles and Diana were of a generation where such removal of young children from their homes to the often alien environment of school away from everything they had known, was acceptable. Today, neither Will or Harry would probably have attended boarding school so young.

And children of divorced parents always spend time away from one parent. However, when it was Diana's time to have her boys she was there for them 110%.

She would not have, like her ex, have allowed them to roam about alone (William and Harry when  at Highgrove) to pubs etc while she worked, or put in a pseudo nightclub in the cellar any home she may have rented to keep her boys happy while she was elsewhere, like Charles did at Highgrove.

The vast majority of parents who are divorced and have children at boarding school devote themselves to their children for that time, brief though it may be. Diana did that. Charles not so much!

[QueenAlex]

no my point was that Diana might well have left the UK, because the time she could spend with her boys was limited....She could easily come and see them durgn their holidays or have them to stay with her, and live abroad.

[sandy]

I don't think DIana would have wanted to put an ocean between herself and her sons. 

[QueenAlex]

I don't think DIana would have wanted to put an ocean between herself and her sons.

then why did she ask Christaian Barnaard for a job for H Khan?  She must have wanted to move away, to S Africa, where her brother was then living.. to be with him...Or if she had stayed with Dodi, odds are they might have lived in Paris and America, as he tended to flit around.....
Double post auto-merged: March 24, 2020, 11:24:19 PM

It is the point, because the narrative painted by you in your posts is that Diana had too much time on her heads away from her boys, by 1996 was burned out and uninterested by the engagements she had carried out for fifteen years, and therefore her private life became messy.

I don't think she was uninterested in her charity work but I do think she was burned out.  She planned, if I remember correctly to keep 6 charities and to dedicate herself in more depth to those few areas.  But it didn't work out that way.  She didn't do as much for them as they hoped. I don't think she managed to spend more time at them and learn more about them.  She had time on her hands because the boys were at school or with the RF.. but she didn't as far as I can see, translate that time to learning more about the charities she had kept.  Jephson said that he had tried to find work he hoped she would enjoy but that Diana didn't want to commit to it..  because IMO she was burned out.  She had made the effort to do the charity work while she was sitill a  working royal.. but she ran out of steam by the last couple fo years.  So I am not sure how likely it was that she would have found new charities and given them a full meed of her attention. I had hoped when she made the decision in 1996 to give up her large number of charities, that she would do such an excellent job with the small number she was keeping.. but in fact, it was rather disappointing because she was not seen around all that much.

It was her public life, IMO that was messy, rather than her private life.  For a time she did have a lover who was a decent guy and whom she might have found happiness with.. had she not been a Princess and he a Muslim Doctor.  (of course when she moved on to Dodi, it got messy).  But her public life was rather fitful, and while I think she was sincere in wanting to still do good, she wasn't really able to commit to things and that was bound to annoy her charities. I think she still wanted to help people but a lot of her attention was focussed on her private life.. She was looking for a man.. and I think if she could have had the boys living at home, she would have liked that better than a brilliant career as a philanthropist. 

[oak_and_cedar]

Asides from the 'sweetpea' charity endeavour, I remember reading about Diana wanting to take on the issue of illiteracy.

Has anyone else read about this?

[QueenAlex]

Asides from the 'sweetpea' charity endeavour, I remember reading about Diana wanting to take on the issue of illiteracy.

Has anyone else read about this?

I seem to remember something being mentioned.. that she was thinking of making documentaries about issues like the one about the her trip to Africa... and illiterarcy was one issue she might tackle.

[oak_and_cedar]

The documentary about her being in Angola is still on youtube, or parts of it.

I do wonder if she met up with charities dealing with illiteracy or nothing had formalized yet.

[QueenAlex]

Diana visited them at school, went on vacation with them, they probably saw her on days off, and she went out with them from time to time when they could.

They went to private schools and my guess is that Diana had the same amount of visitation of any parent who?s children went to private school.

W
Also, Prince William was interviewed in the documentary or one of the articles about his mother. In it he said something about Diana coming and getting the children ?worked up? and then leaving. The implication was that she would pop in unannounced from time to time. That means that he believes that she would be nearby. That is also telling IMO.

Who says Diana wanted to marry Khan? Was it really that serious?

We don't know the dynamics of the relationship and Diana isn't here to tell us her version. But why is Diana made out to be someone who is unrealistic and who Khan had to 'snap back to reality' or give a 'reality check' to?

It could very well have been Khan asking for second chances and promising to improve. We simply don't know. But I don't think that Diana was clingy or desperate.

I think she had feelings for Khan and was in love, but, people fall out of love, and for different reasons.

IMO the most realistic scenario is that as time went on she started to see where she and Khan differed in outlook and decided to move on. Those things happen to couples all time.

Diana, in my opinion, was a person of standard and integrity and guts. And I personally don't think it's fair to say that she waited to have found someone so that she could leave her current partner. For all we know she might have contemplated it for a while, and she wasn't in love and then decided to move on.

But perhaps that doesn't fit into the narrative of 'desperate' and 'unreasonable' Diana.

So I don't think it's a case of, if Khan wanted too Diana would jump at the chance. She was a reasonable person who perhaps thought that it would be better if they went on their separate ways. Also, Khan, if I remember correctly, mentioned that he 'would take Diana back' but it depended on how her relationship with Fayed went.  That sounds a bit 'desperate' to me.

of course she was in love with Khan and wanted to marry him.  She went to Pakistain to visit his family  and they liked her on a personal basis but still said tht they didn't think ti was a good idea for them to marry.  YOu don't do that unless you are very much in love.  She asked C Barnaarrd to give him a job in S Africa.. which Khan did not want.  Again she was harldy likely to do that if she didn't love him and want to be with him.
. Khan loved her but IMO he had a clearer idea of the realities of such a romance and he  probably could not see any way tehir romance could work.  But he did love her and he hoped against hope.  He has mentioned how he had said to Di that Paksitan might be a place they could live free of the media circus, but she returned from a trip to Pakistan and told him she didn't think things would work out there.  Probalby having seen the country, she realised it was very foreign to her.. and having met his family she had a better idea that they might not accept her as his wife.  But they had this stormy on and off romance for 2 years, breaking up and getting together again.  Because sadly, they DID love each other and yet it was very hard for them to find  a way of being together.
as For Williams' remarks, he could not know, 20 years after her death, what she would have done in later life.  He was just talking in a general way, imagining her coming to see him and his children.. He's hardly likely to say 20 years Later, "I think Mum would have married some American or someone foreighn and come back to England a few times a year.." He is going to fondly imagine her just "popping in"....
Double post auto-merged: March 25, 2020, 11:36:48 AM

The documentary about her being in Angola is still on youtube, or parts of it.

I do wonder if she met up with charities dealing with illiteracy or nothing had formalized yet.

I dobut if anything serious had been done. I think she was full of vague plans....

[QueenAlex]

Even if he had reciprocated I don't think she and Khan would have rushed into a marriage less than a year after her divorce.

Vague plans? I don't think so, she got the attention on the cause. She got much praise for it.

what cuase?  She didn't get attention on literacy, as an issue because she did not have a chance ot do anything about it.

[sandy]

She did not have a chance to live the rest of her life which was cut off prematurely.

I was talking Landmines.

[QueenAlex]

I still see no tangible evidence of Diana wanting to marry Khan.

Her visiting her boyfriends family while visiting the country is nothing unusual.

I think her actions are telling. She could have moved away anytime between 92-97. Yet she stayed and even endured the continuous harassment from the press.

I don't think that she was full of 'vague plans'. Sadly she did not have enough time to materialize them.

She could nto have moved away in 1992.. she had to negotiate  a divroce and her children were very young then.  But her own brother said that she "talked endlessly of getting away from England".. and she did things to indicate that she was keen on moving.  She asked Barnaard to give Khan a job.  Why on earth would she do that if (a) She did not love Khan, (b) she did not want to marry him and (c) she was commtited to staying in England for her boys.  By 1996 to 97, she was getting less favourable press, her boys were older and she  had to send them to boarding school and could not drop in to see them every weekend.. so she saw less of them.  So by 1996 to 97 I think her  desire to get away from England had become stronger.  She was stuck in an apartment in KP, the boys were away.  Her lover was a man from a foreign country who considered going back there to live and I think she had gotten fed up with England and its unkind press.. and wanted a new life.

And I would say that vistiign a boyfriends's home country, IS pretty unusual.   Its a long long way to go, just to meet the in laws.
The KHan family were amazed that she had turned up, and so was Khan himself.   Their attitude was that they liked her, and she was a nice person but they did not want him to marry outside his religion and culture.  So Diana's trip did not result in the family telling Khan "Oh she's lovely, you really ought to snap her up".
Khan has said that he and Diana talked about getting married.. and that he had told her that he felt the only place they might be free from media intrusion, which he hated, was to live in Pakistan where he himself  considered moving back to, to work for his people there.   As I said in my last post, Diana paid a visit and came back to say that SHE didn't think that Pakistain would work out. I think that when she visited, she realised that it was a very foreign place, where someone like her would not feel at home.. and that she could see that Khan's family would not welcome her.  So she realised reluctantly that they were not likely to find a place they could be together.  That was why their relationship was on and off, with Khan no doubt trying to tell her that he loved her but that it would be impossible for them to be together.   He was getting racist hate Mail in england.. He did not want to live in S Africa or other places.. But Diana kept on trying to find a way for them.. and it didn't work out.  I think he loved her and has never quite gotten over her.. but he knew realistically that they could not find a place to be together or a life that suited them both. 
As for Dodi, do you really think it was wise that she seems to have "fallen in love" with him so quickly?  I don't think the affectionate feeling lasted very long.. she was IMO getting fed up wit him and his sloppy ways within a few weeks.. but he suited her for a short time.   but if she had NOT fallen for him or had an affair with him she would have been safe.
Her sons knew her as children.  THey kenw about her men friends, but I doubt if they are likely to want to talk about that sort of thing now...
Double post auto-merged: March 25, 2020, 01:02:09 PM

Rosa Monckton maintained that Diana was not about to rush into a second marriage as did other friends of hers. Khan would have been happy IMO continuing to see her but not going public and not making commitments. If Diana had been "desperate" for him she would not have moved on. There were apparently some serious discussions between them about their future.

yes tehre were discussions between them and she wanted to marry him.. but they kept coming up against impasses.  He was not English.  He was from very different relgion and culture.  His family were against such a marriage.  He was not as rich as her.  Eventaully when she found another man, Diana realised that she and Khan were not going to be able to amrry and she moved on.  But it was a disaster....

[sandy]

William was a teen during the divorce negotiations. And Harry two years younger.  They were not little children. SHe had no 'understanding" with Khan, they were still working out their relationship  no proposal was imminent. Clearly.

It was not being in Pakistan that "would not work out" it was the cultural differences, And Khan's family wanted him to marry a woman of his own faith and culture. I don't see Diana ever having all these details you mention made public--she never publicly spoke about it, others did later including Burrell. Diana is not around to give her side of the story of the relationship.

Diana wanted a commitment, all the things you mention were not the key issue. He did not want to be seen with her in public but wanted just to have private visits at KP.  Diana moved on and changed her number, she actually initiated the breakup, Khan said he could not reach her by phone anymore.

I don't think Diana "fell in love" with Dodi, she enjoyed his company and was fond of him. She never said she "loved" him. It is a matter of speculation how Diana "felt" about him since she died and could not give her account of the relationship.  It is not her relationship with Dodi that caused the accident, That is Kismet. One could say that if CHarles had ditched Camilla she would not have been in Paris that night of the 31 August. How do you know she would have been 'safe' if she had not met him. Life is unpredictable, who could have foreseen that many lives are in jeopardy now because of a virus.

Why would William and Harry have to talk about Khan or Dodi?

[QueenAlex]

Please read the posts.  Oak and Cedar has quoted William saying that Diana would have hopped in unexpectedly.. so she would likely have been living in England.

Accoridng to Khan, he felt that MAYBE living in Pakistan would work out, that it was a place where the tabloids were not likely to chase them.  (he was probably right....if she had moved there they would probaby have lost the press intrusion after a while.  the tabloid reporters would not want to set up campt there to get pics of them.)
But DIANA when she had seen the place, did not think it would work out, so it seemed like there was nowhere in the world they could live.   Yes there were cultural differences, Khan was OK with a limited discreet relationship, but Diana wanted more. Because he loved her, although he probably knew in his heart that it would all end In tears, he tried to keep away but kept on coming back.

[oak_and_cedar]

She could nto have moved away in 1992.. she had to negotiate  a divroce and her children were very young then.  But her own brother said that she "talked endlessly of getting away from England".. and she did things to indicate that she was keen on moving.  She asked Barnaard to give Khan a job.  Why on earth would she do that if (a) She did not love Khan, (b) she did not want to marry him and (c) she was commtited to staying in England for her boys.  By 1996 to 97, she was getting less favourable press, her boys were older and she  had to send them to boarding school and could not drop in to see them every weekend.. so she saw less of them.  So by 1996 to 97 I think her  desire to get away from England had become stronger.  She was stuck in an apartment in KP, the boys were away.  Her lover was a man from a foreign country who considered going back there to live and I think she had gotten fed up with England and its unkind press.. and wanted a new life.

And I would say that vistiign a boyfriends's home country, IS pretty unusual.   Its a long long way to go, just to meet the in laws.
The KHan family were amazed that she had turned up, and so was Khan himself.   Their attitude was that they liked her, and she was a nice person but they did not want him to marry outside his religion and culture.  So Diana's trip did not result in the family telling Khan "Oh she's lovely, you really ought to snap her up".
Khan has said that he and Diana talked about getting married.. and that he had told her that he felt the only place they might be free from media intrusion, which he hated, was to live in Pakistan where he himself  considered moving back to, to work for his people there.   As I said in my last post, Diana paid a visit and came back to say that SHE didn't think that Pakistain would work out. I think that when she visited, she realised that it was a very foreign place, where someone like her would not feel at home.. and that she could see that Khan's family would not welcome her.  So she realised reluctantly that they were not likely to find a place they could be together.  That was why their relationship was on and off, with Khan no doubt trying to tell her that he loved her but that it would be impossible for them to be together.   He was getting racist hate Mail in england.. He did not want to live in S Africa or other places.. But Diana kept on trying to find a way for them.. and it didn't work out.  I think he loved her and has never quite gotten over her.. but he knew realistically that they could not find a place to be together or a life that suited them both. 
As for Dodi, do you really think it was wise that she seems to have "fallen in love" with him so quickly?  I don't think the affectionate feeling lasted very long.. she was IMO getting fed up wit him and his sloppy ways within a few weeks.. but he suited her for a short time.   but if she had NOT fallen for him or had an affair with him she would have been safe.
Her sons knew her as children.  THey kenw about her men friends, but I doubt if they are likely to want to talk about that sort of thing now...
Double post auto-merged: March 25, 2020, 01:02:09 PM

yes tehre were discussions between them and she wanted to marry him.. but they kept coming up against impasses.  He was not English.  He was from very different relgion and culture.  His family were against such a marriage.  He was not as rich as her.  Eventaully when she found another man, Diana realised that she and Khan were not going to be able to amrry and she moved on.  But it was a disaster....

She didn't go to Pakistan only to visit Khan's family. She was a guest of Imran Khan's and visited his hospital that treated poor people with cancer.

Pakistan was one of the nations she had visited with some frequency. She was there as early as 92. Similar to Egypt and India.

I seriously doubt that she went to Khans family unannounced. For one, it would have been a logistical nightmare, and the press would have been alerted.  Secondly, Diana was a courteous person, and she would have given a heads up.

Also, if I remember correctly, it was Khan who asked her to visit them. I think it was in his statement?

He also mentioned how she came back with excuses when she examined the places where they might live.

I think the relationship has been hyped to high heavens as a means to 'underpin' the point that Diana was 'unreasonable' and unable to recognize a good thing.

His only public statement about her was odd and came across as unkind. I think, and this is just my personal opinion, that he is an opportunist who's mainly looking out for himself. I also don't think it's matter of him 'getting over her'. Based on his comments, and this is just my opinion, he was scorned that she moved on.

I don't think that Diana would have married Fayed. But she was happy in being with him and his family. She was enjoying herself, and I don't think that she was heartbroken about leaving Khan.

William and Harry were not young children. William was a teen and in all likelyhood had many discussions with Diana. In any case, as her son, he knew her better than most.

[sandy]

Please read the posts.  Oak and Cedar has quoted William saying that Diana would have hopped in unexpectedly.. so she would likely have been living in England.

Accoridng to Khan, he felt that MAYBE living in Pakistan would work out, that it was a place where the tabloids were not likely to chase them.  (he was probably right....if she had moved there they would probaby have lost the press intrusion after a while.  the tabloid reporters would not want to set up campt there to get pics of them.)
But DIANA when she had seen the place, did not think it would work out, so it seemed like there was nowhere in the world they could live.   Yes there were cultural differences, Khan was OK with a limited discreet relationship, but Diana wanted more. Because he loved her, although he probably knew in his heart that it would all end In tears, he tried to keep away but kept on coming back.

I read the posts.

It makes no sense. If his family did not approve of her because of cultural/religious differences why would he think it ideal for her to be in Pakistan. She could not even live with him there because of the family. the press can travel to Pakistan, there are flights there.

It was the family not the place.

Khan can say a lot of things but Diana is not around to give her side. He admitted he could not reach her after she changed her number. She was not "unreasonable" she gave the relationship time.

[TLLK]

The documentary about her being in Angola is still on youtube, or parts of it.

I do wonder if she met up with charities dealing with illiteracy or nothing had formalized yet.

No I had not read about literacy as a potential cause, but it's always an issue that needs attention especially among adults who are functionally illiterate or are second language learners. IMO it would have been a wonderful cause to take up.

[gmod]Reminder-This is a thread about Diana's possible charity endeavors not her romantic relationships. Please stay on topic[/gmod]

[QueenAlex]

If Diana had married Khan and moved to Pakistan the tabloid press would have lost interest.  They were not going to set up in a far off foreign country to get pix of her with her new husband.  Khan's family would not approve, no matter where they lived, but he himself wanted to go back there, when he had worked in Britain for a time. He probably thought that Pakistan was the best place for them to avoid the papers and that maybe in time, his famly would come to accept his marriage to Diana.
But she was the one who said it would not work out.  As I've said, most likely when she visited the family and travelled to Pakistan and realised how foreign it all was, when she actually spent time with an ordinary rich but middle class family, she knew she would not really want to live there permanently and that Khan's family were not likely to be friendly with her..  So she began to give up on her dream and told Khan that it would not be a good place to live. Probably Khan knew that if Diana spent a little time there, and met with his family she would realise that it was too foreign and different for her.. and that she might realise then that his family were not likely to be happy with the marriage and that would be a mistake for htem to marry.  But he still loved her and could not entirely give up on the relationship.  She broke off with him because she ahd met Dodi, and he was a rich guy who would be able to give her wealth, comfort, and security..

[oak_and_cedar]

No I had not read about literacy as a potential cause, but it's always an issue that needs attention especially among adults who are functionally illiterate or are second language learners. IMO it would have been a wonderful cause to take up.

Yes, I agree. The sad thing about it is that many adults who are illiterate are ashamed to admit it so they are reluctant to get help. I think Diana would have helped alot with removing the stigma, if you can call it that.

Also, I did read that she had made comments about wanting focus child labour and so on. I think I read it the Simmons book, though who knows if it's accurate. I think it's better to take what she says with a pinch of salt. IMO.

[QueenAlex]

Yes, I agree. The sad thing about it is that many adults who are illiterate are ashamed to admit it so they are reluctant to get help. I think Diana would have helped alot with removing the stigma, if you can call it that.

Also, I did read that she had made comments about wanting focus child labour and so on. I think I read it the Simmons book, though who knows if it's accurate. I think it's better to take what she says with a pinch of salt. IMO.

the Simmons book?  The one that claimed she had a fling with JFK Junior?
I don't tink I'd beleive anything in that book. 
ANd I think Diana would have to be very cautious with dealing with "issues" where they might veer into the political.

[Princess Cassandra]

Dianna knew that the causes she pursued would be helped enormously from her attention and efforts. What a satisfying feeling it must have been, but then a lot of responsibility, because she couldn't possibly help them all. She had to decide which ones she would support or continue to support following her divorce. I've always thought that was a work in progress and that she wasn't hurrying about it.

[QueenAlex]

Dianna knew that the causes she pursued would be helped enormously from her attention and efforts. What a satisfying feeling it must have been, but then a lot of responsibility, because she couldn't possibly help them all. She had to decide which ones she would support or continue to support following her divorce. I've always thought that was a work in progress and that she wasn't hurrying about it.

but she wasn't all that committed after her divorce. I think she did drop the charities because she was tired out and didn't want to have 100 patronages, even if they didn't ask much of her.. but her PR lady told her that to drop them so suddenly would look like petulance, and was too hasty.. It looked like she was annoyed that she had lost her HRH.. and that she was taking the opportunity to drop all the charities that she had, because she didn't really want to do the work any more.
Diana did not listen,.
I think that she did mean to concentrate on the ones she kept and learn more about them and be a more "in depth" worker for them...but in practice she didn't seem to do a lot and some were disappointed by her behaviour.. I think that they were grateful for what she had done in the past but felt they couldn't rely on her.