Re: William and Catherine-Sports Patronages: AELTC, Football, Rugby and more

[sara8150]

William booed by assembled crowds at the FA Cup Final. Crowds also booed during National Anthem and the rallying cry/ song ?Abide with Me?.

Remember I said years ago here on another thread that the further north from the Home Counties one travelled in Britain the less the popularity of the monarchy? This was the example writ large. Here was a  northern club playing and it?s fans were saying thanks to the Establishment for the Ma Thatcher years when mining communities were destroyed in Wales and the north, and thanks again for the Hillsborough disaster cover-up. People in the North West have long memories.

Prince William is BOOED by Wembley crowd during the FA Cup Final | Daily Mail Online

Unbelievable!! During FA cup finals for no respect to Duke of Cambridge that what happened during their trips to Caribbean,Jamaica,Belize and Bahamas definitely conversation about that plus protest but Caribbean not pay for royals its from England pay for Cambridges travel plus security reasons also humiliation

[sara8150]

Prince William sends rare personal tweet to mark milestone moment | HELLO!

Prince William BOOED by Wembley crowd in shock FA Cup Final scenes | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

[Curryong]

Liverpool fans once again booed the national anthem ahead of the Reds' FA Cup final with Chelsea at Wembley.

In keeping with tradition, "God Save The Queen" was sung before kick-off at the national stadium alongside 'Abide With Me' but Reds' fans in attendance booed both tunes. This, however, is something Liverpool fans have done for years.

Both anthems were roundly booed by large swaths of the Liverpool supporters, having also done the same ahead of the Carabao Cup final earlier this season against the same opponents - the Reds eventually running out victors via a dramatic penalty shootout back in February.

Why Liverpool fans booed English national anthem at FA Cup final in keeping with tradition - Mirror Online

"I'm from Bootle. I love Liverpool as a city. Scousers moan about being labelled by people and the press. I'm sorry but sometimes they bring it on themselves. Booing the national anthem will not be tolerated by me or quite a few others from the city."

https://twitter.com/Nitromanuk/status/1525503523923890178?s=20&t=JaNquiXo9u07Nx-v-rwabA

Yes, it?s true, booing the National Anthem is a tradition in Liverpool at soccer matches, (and in other places in the North as well.)

However, what about the boos that were clearly heard loud and long when William was shaking hands with the players? No national anthem playing then, just him, a product of the Establishment. And a dislike of the monarchy as a system the further north one travels in the UK, especially among young people and ethnic minorities, isn?t something that can be just brushed off as ?a soccer tradition? in one city. Or it shouldn?t be, by the far-sighted.

[PrincessOfPeace]

Liverpool fans boo everything it seems. William handled it well. There was no booing when he handed out the trophy.

There's hundreds of post on social media condemning it, including leading members of the Labour party.

But at the end of the day, if you're booing your own country's national anthem, it probably says more about Liverpool fans than anything else.

[Curryong]

You do know that Britain?s national anthem says nothing whatsoever about the virtues, wonders and strengths of the country England (ies) or of Great Britain itself, right? That it is in fact a paean of praise to the monarch, not to the country, not to its people just the Head of State. It was in fact written originally to a Hanoverian monarch, an import from a foreign dynasty, and adopted thereafter as a national song.

Boy, was I glad when Advance Australia Fair became my country?s anthem in a referendum decades ago! And there have been constant calls for ?Jerusalem? to be England?s national song for years.

[TLLK]

 <_<

Liverpool fans boo everything it seems. William handled it well. There was no booing when he handed out the trophy.

There's hundreds of post on social media condemning it, including leading members of the Labour party.

But at the end of the day, if you're booing your own country's national anthem, it probably says more about Liverpool fans than anything else.

Thank you to all who provided background information as to why the Liverpool fans choose to boo the National Anthem and other  patriotic gestures.  Sad to see that the B Positive Choir which was made up of members from the UK's BAME community sang "Abide With Me" were also booed as well.  :no:

Personally I  have to agree with @PrincessOfPeace that it says more about the Liverpool fans who were in attendance. <_< Have to say that it continues to show that sadly British football fans have earned a less than favorable impression in the sporting world.

[wannable]

With W or not, they'd (Liverpool) have booed the same. Reading ✅ more than a dozen social media accounts from Football experts, it's a known thing for ages.

[Curryong]

With W or not, they'd (Liverpool) have booed the same. Reading ✅ more than a dozen social media accounts from Football experts, it's a known thing for ages.

Not when William is being introduced to the teams, it isn?t. That was a first!

[Curryong]

Most of the soccer riots were at international matches, And the laddish behaviour of British hooligan soccer fans has receded in recent years. With a few exceptions.

Plus I would like to know why soccer fans or indeed anyone from a very economically deprived area (post WW2) in the northwest of England, a region not exactly renowned for its worship of pomp, ceremony and the monarchy, is expected to enthusiastically belt out the words to the national anthem on certain occasions. Especially as the Hillsborough disaster and its subsequent coverup by senior police and the elite still lives on in the memory of people there.

It?s not a song dedicated to them or their countrymen and women but a woman whose son sat on a gold throne the other day to open Parliament. Nearby was a priceless crown. Not bad for tourism but whether it speaks volumes to the average Briton eating baked beans for breakfast in a council house is debatable. ?Send her victorious, happy and glorious? indeed!

[Nightowl]

*Send her victorious, happy and glorious? indeed!*

Just *sad*, we all have our own opinion and are free to say it here....yet the outright hate for HM and her family, well most of them.....is just really sad to see. I like HM, she was *BORN* into that position in life being a member of a royal family and all that it entails , we all have NO choice who our parents are when born...I believe HM made the very best of her life for her country and helped support the entire British Commonwealth. We all make mistakes in life as we are the so called human race.....yet some believe they are of a higher power.

[wannable]

Not when William is being introduced to the teams, it isn?t. That was a first!

He's the first royal to be President of the FA.

As I said with W or not, the Liverpool fans always have booed (stated by football experts, more than a 2 dozens have confirmed this to date.  Omid couldn't tweet an invention either) starting and since the 1986 Hillsborough disaster. William was 4 years old.

[PrincessOfPeace]

Boris Johnson responds to Liverpool fans booing national anthem at FA Cup final - Mirror Online

[Curryong]

He's the first royal to be President of the FA.

As I said with W or not, the Liverpool fans always have booed (stated by football experts, more than a 2 dozens have confirmed this to date.  Omid couldn't tweet an invention either) starting and since the 1986 Hillsborough disaster. William was 4 years old.

I don?t care if William was a baby or hadn?t yet been born. I have been to Liverpool, and to Manchester and indeed to the North of England several times. The sentiment towards the Royal Family in the north of England has been unenthusiastic for at least fifty years to my knowledge. The Liverpool council is and has been very left wing and will probably continue to be so.

I don?t care if you think that the north west of England is a hotbed of enthusiastic monarchist sentiment, because everything I know about the history of that region says it isn?t.

William is a member of the Establishment, like it or not. And the Hillsborough disaster was and is a stain of corruption on the modern history of Great Britain, just as Aberfan was in the 1960s.

Just as people in the Welsh valleys still remember the authorities like the national Coal Board covering up what they did at Aberfan so people in Liverpool remember Hillsborough and it?s disgraceful coverup by the Establishment afterwards. That is so now as it was in the 1980s, and as I stated in my previous posts it was the reason Liverpool fans booed.

They were booing the Establishment. Of which the Royal Family, including William, is a prime and visible example.

[wannable]

The sentiment is towards centuries of bad treatment by the UK ''government'' (since VD May 8, 1945) who ignored the poor Liverpudlians repeatedly. 

Their flags at stadium says ''Scouse not English'', hence they choose not to relate themselves with the English National Anthem.

Industrial decline during Margaret Thatcher

It led to severe and unemployment and poverty within the city, with the government largely unwilling to aid, and even cutting its public services.

The city had played a key role in World War II, but after the war ended, Liverpool was hit with economic hardship as the trade at their ports ? which were once dominating the industry ? had slowed down.

In 2011, official papers revealed that Margaret Thatcher was indeed secretly urged to consider abandoning Liverpool to a fate of "managed decline".

?In plain English that meant withdrawing resources from the region so that residents would be forced to leave,? states the Independent. ?Effectively starving them out.?

Files released under the 30-year rule showed senior Tory ministers urging her not to spend public money on the "stony ground" of Merseyside, with former prime minister's Chancellor Sir Geoffrey Howe said it would be like "trying to make water flow uphill".

The reports affirmed what those in Liverpool had already been sure of for a while ? that their region did not have the backing of the government, and that it was never a priority.

Liverpool as a city has changed drastically since the 1980s, still retaining its status as a crucial sporting and cultural hub, but its citizens? disregard and resentment towards a government who had never supported them still remains.

There is also the matter of the handling of the Hillsborough disaster and its aftermath.

Former Conservative MP Irvine Patnick had a strong role in spreading the gross untruths and lies about the Liverpool supporters involved in the 1989 tragedy.

While current MP Boris Johnson was editor of The Spectator in 2004, an article written by Simon Heffer spoke of the ?victim? mentality of the people of Liverpool.

"A combination of economic misfortune ? its docks were, fundamentally, on the wrong side of England when Britain entered what is now the European Union ? and an excessive predilection for welfarism have created a peculiar, and deeply unattractive, psyche among many Liverpudlians,? wrote Heffer.

"They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it.?

He also referred to the grave mishandling of the police as a scapegoat.

Every single time Liverpool plays, this is there way to vent out the GOVERNMENT, yes it's HM Government, but it isn't against the Monarchy.

[Curryong]

The monarchy is part of the British Establishment as is the Govt. Also, it wasn?t a politician who was shaking players? hands when the jeering began at this year?s Cup Final. It was a Prince.

And what do you think the English national anthem is that the fans were booing? Oh yes, that?s right, a paean of praise to and about a monarch. Not about the Government, nor the people, not about the land, but about a monarch.

?God Save the Queen?. Not God Save England?, not ?God Save the British Government??. Just ?God Save the Queen?!

I know all about Thatcher?s Britain and the way it impacted on the NW of England and on Wales, thanks. I wrote in a previous post about the industrial decay post WW2.  The Home Counties were fine. I also know all about Hillsborough.

Scousers are what Liverpudlians refer to themselves as. That doesn?t mean they don?t regard themselves as English. They just don?t care for pomposity in anyone, not much time for government officialdom and aren?t fond of the monarchy either.

You can choose to believe that the North of England is full of rejoicing monarchists perpetually waving Union Jacks in their thousands every time a royal person comes into view. Some of my relatives still live in the North East and I?ll take what I?ve seen there over the years as my observations, thanks, and it?s not residents there waving their hankies in delight every time the Queen is seen on the TV.

It?s getting so that relatively few people under 30 even in the Home Counties feels that way any more, actually. The new reign will be interesting!

[wannable]

The poor Queen didn't use her soft powers to influence her Government.  Understandably the Liverpudians (they have the biggest immigrants communities) hate the establishment for all their sufferings.

[sara8150]

Prince William praises 'courage' of Blackpool's Jake Daniels | Daily Mail Online

Prince William Sends Message of Support as Soccer Star Comes Out as Gay | PEOPLE.com

Prince William sends rare personal message after Jake Daniels comes out as gay | HELLO!

Jake Daniels: Duke of Cambridge praises Blackpool player's courage to come out - BBC Sport

Jake Daniels becomes UK's first active male professional footballer to come out publicly as gay - reaction | Football News | Sky Sports

Thanks for your leadership, Jake Daniels: a gay man and professional footballer | Soccer | The Guardian

Prince William makes rare personal intervention to hail 'courage' of British football star | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-17/footballer-jake-daniels-praised-as-inspirational-after-coming-out-as-gay

Blackpool footballer Jake Daniels, 17, bravely comes out as gay in historic statement - Mirror Online

Jake Daniels receives incredible show of support from football world including Lineker and Kane after coming out as gay
Duke of Cambridge support Jake Daniels on his out as gay because Duke of Cambridge is president of FA

[Curryong]

This is quite an old story. I think I read about it last week. He?s only 17, very cute and lives with his mum and sisters. Others, including Elton John have already sent their support and congratulations.

It?s good that officialdom has come out in support but I hope Jake doesn?t get jeered from the terraces by moronic fans. That?s what happened to rugby players who have come out and to a German soccer player who came out years ago. .

[Curryong]

The poor Queen didn't use her soft powers to influence her Government.  Understandably the Liverpudians (they have the biggest immigrants communities) hate the establishment for all their sufferings.

Liverpool has always absorbed large immigrant communities, including thousands fleeing from the Famine years in Ireland. It was a powerhouse of the world in the mid 19th century. And it still has many descendants of those poor Irish people in the city today.

The song ?Oliver?s Army? an Elvis Costello hit spoke of the unemployed youth in the depressed areas of the North of England (Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle etc) being pressed into service with the British army from the 1950s onwards. Ironically many ended up in NI during the Troubles. The title refers to Cromwell whose invading armies attempted some ethnic cleansing and crushing in Ireland, but the British Army in Ireland under many sovereigns didn?t do a bad job itself in that direction, lol!

Elvis Costello & The Attractions - Oliver's Army (Official Music Video) - YouTube

Incidentally, Liverpool as a port city was knee deep into the Slave trade to the Americas and the West Indies in the 17th, 28th and early 19th centuries. Many of its leading citizens as well as some of the Stuarts made a fortune from it. 

[wannable]

We're going in circles here.  Basically let's agree that poor equates to suffering, whilst no solution, being ignored, etc. happened, including their port wasn't used during the WW's because the location was on the wrong side or good only to smuggle with less viewing or good for domestic shipping versus the ones we can all see in this map to Europe and the Americas.

The only way I see it is investing as the Royals have been 'ordered' whenever they visit Liverpool; education and cultural visits.

[TLLK]

It's been a good discussion about the booing but it's now time to consider agreeing to disagree.

[TLLK]

News regarding the ITF's recent decision has been moved to the sports  thread  Sports: Professional, Amatuer, Olympics etc... in  Coffee Klatch. Please continue the discussion there. Thank you

Sports: Professional, Amatuer, Olympics etc...

[Curryong]

We're going in circles here.  Basically let's agree that poor equates to suffering, whilst no solution, being ignored, etc. happened, including their port wasn't used during the WW's because the location was on the wrong side or good only to smuggle with less viewing or good for domestic shipping versus the ones we can all see in this map to Europe and the Americas.

The only way I see it is investing as the Royals have been 'ordered' whenever they visit Liverpool; education and cultural visits.

On the contrary, Liverpool during WW2 was regarded as an extremely important city industrially as was Manchester in both World Wars, hence the German Luftwaffe bombing the area in WW2 only a little less than the infamous London blitz of 1940/41. And that included Merseyside (the Liverpool docks area.)

I don?t know what you mean by Liverpool being ?on the wrong side? (of the ocean I presume?) Well that is incorrect as well, unless you regard imports like sugarcane and fruit from the West Indies to be unimportant, or, even more so, food, arms, ships and material coming into Britain from the US (and Canada from 1939) after 1941 during the Battle of the Atlantic.

[Curryong]

Liverpool?s port during the Battle of the Atlantic.

Liverpool | National Museums Liverpool

?Liverpool was Britain?s main transatlantic convoy port during the war. No less than 1285 convoys arrived in the Mersey during the war, an average of four every week.   Since each one might consist of up to 60 ships, this put a severe strain on the workforce and facilities of the port.

Merseyside?s vast dock labour force played a vital role in clearing ships? cargoes at the port of Liverpool throughout the war. Early problems of slow turnaround (loading and unloading) of ships were mainly due to port congestion and air-raid disruptions. By 1944-1945 all cargoes were being handled in far greater quantities than in peacetime.

Imports to Britain's West coast ports April 1940 - April 1941
Imports to each post in millions of tons, with the percentage of total trade handling by all UK ports (12.9 million tons)

4.2 (31%)* Liverpool and Manchester
1.9 (14.8%) Glasgow and Greenock
0.8 (6.4%) Swansea, Cardfiff and Newport
0.8 (6.4%) Bristol
7.7 (58.6%) Total
From these figures it can be seen that between April 1940 and April 1941 the main west-coast ports handled about 60% of Britain?s imports.  Liverpool and Manchester (31%) together dealt with more than twice the trade of Glasgow and Greenock (14.8%), their nearest ?rivals?.?

Spirit of the Blitz | National Museums Liverpool

Liverpool was the most heavily bombed British city outside London. The city was a prime target for attack because, with Birkenhead, its 'twin' across the Mersey, it was the country's biggest west coast port. Every week, ships arrived in the River Mersey bringing supplies of food and other cargoes from the USA and Canada. Without these supplies, Britain would have lost the war.

The German Luftwaffe (Air Force) made about eighty air raids on Merseyside between August 1940 and January 1942. These reached their peak in the seven-night blitz in May 1941.

The bombing was aimed mainly at the docks, railways and factories, but large areas were destroyed or damaged on both sides of the Mersey.?

Note that last sentence, wannabie, as well as the first paragraph from the article.

[TLLK]

Enjoying the discussion, but let's keep the focus on the Cambridge's sporting patronages.