The Ancestors of the Duchess of Sussex

[PrincessOfPeace]

With the remembrance services over I was wondering if anyone has information on Meghan?s family and service in the armed forces. Her dad is of the Vietnam generation and is there any information on her grandparents or great-grandparents having military service.

[Curryong]

I remarked in all my posts that ALL the work done at Bletchley Park was important. However there is a difference between working in a large pool of people and being part of a scientific team, and IMO raising the work done by two of the women in that pool to the level of Turing and his team.

What is more, I know all about women's work in both World Wars. My mother worked in a hospital in the North of England and she and fellow workers had to be dug out by rescue teams after a bombing raid in 1941.

My grandmother served throughout WW1 in Whitehall for four years in a dept of Admiralty.  And men too served in civilian capacities. My own father was away from his new wife for years, in an underground factory in Birmingham working as a tradesman (carpenter/joiner) on the assembling and manufacture of Spitfire fighter planes and then Lancaster bombers. So I am not degrading anyone's service.

Though I could say that there would have been nothing for Peter Middleton to fly if not for the planes my father and his fellow workers assembled in factories all over Britain for six years.

With regard to Meghan--There has been little research done so far on the Markle side of Meghan's family. More will no doubt be done in future years. However, at the moment little is known of her Markle grandfather or great grandfather beyond their names and births and deaths, so we don't know what their service was, if any, in WW2,

The situation on the maternal side is patchy as there are usually huge gaps with regard to the documented lives of black people during slavery and afterwards, and that is so with Doria's family. One researcher did an overview of that side of the family  at the time of the engagement which I will have to look for. However, apparently ancestors fought in the Civil War period. I've also got a vague recollection of one being found in the draft in WW2.


DailyMailTV reveals Meghan Markle's family roots | Daily Mail Online

Regarding WW1. Relatively few US soldiers, sailors and airman served between 1917 and 1918, from their entire population which included Meghan's forebears. That is in comparison to Britain and European combatant nations which were at war for four years which correspondingly horrendous casualties.

Including my own grandfather who was blown up during sea-mine sweeping operations in 1915.

[TLLK]

With the remembrance services over I was wondering if anyone has information on Meghan?s family and service in the armed forces. Her dad is of the Vietnam generation and is there any information on her grandparents or great-grandparents having military service.

I would be surprised if there were no family members who did not serve in the years that the U.S. had a mandatory draft.

[Curryong]

Just found it. Apparently Gordon Markle, Meghan's grandfather, Tom's father, was drafted in 1942, served till 1945. I don't think they started drafting immediately war was declared after Pearl Harbour did they, so most, unless they were reservists, would have been drafted in 1942 and onwards I guess.

Gordon Arnold Markle (1918-1982) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

[TLLK]

Good detective work @Curryong. Unless a man was involved in vital civilian work deemed crucial to the war effort or had a medical reason to be excused, he would have most likely drafted.

[PrincessOfPeace]

Just found it. Apparently Gordon Markle, Meghan's grandfather, Tom's father, was drafted in 1942, served till 1945. I don't think they started drafting immediately war was declared after Pearl Harbour did they, so most, unless they were reservists, would have been drafted in 1942 and onwards I guess.

Gordon Arnold Markle (1918-1982) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

Canada had conscription during both world wars and it created sharp divisions within society between the men who volunteered and those who were drafted. In fact women used to publicly shame men who didn?t volunteer and had to be drafted.

Given that her grandfather served in the military it would be nice for Meghan to acknowledge his service. She made a post on Instagram for US Veterans Day but the post was all about her and doing a USO tour

[Curryong]

The great difference between Canada and the US in WW2 is that Canada was with Britain as a realm within the British Empire/Commonwealth. It, and Australia (where I live) and NZ etc declared war on Germany directly after Britain in 1939. The US wasn't (obviously) and did not declare war on Japan (and Germany) until Pearl Harbour was attacked in December 1941. The Draft legislation had to make its way through Congress and in fact the US did not begin training men and expanding its then very small army until 1942, which was when Gordon Markle was drafted.

I have never read of huge differences in the US in the attitude of the general population towards conscripted men and those who had volunteered before 1941. (There were relatively few of them and consisted mainly of pilots who had their own squadron in the RAF.) The vast majority of service men in the US were conscripts. Therefore it would have been strange for Meghan's grandfather to have rushed over the border to Canada to volunteer in 1939/40/41.

That attitude of disdain for non volunteers certainly prevailed in Britain and in Australia in WW1, where thousands of men rushed to volunteer in the weeks after war was declared in 1914. White feathers were sometimes handed out to those young men who were still in civilian life, usually by women unfortunately.

However, Britain, with volunteers drying up, conscription began in 1915. Australia did not have conscription in WW1, but, like Britain, the numbers of volunteers began to rapidly decline as the casualty lists grew. In neither Britain nor Australia was there any great enthusiasm for war in 1939, and conscription began pretty well immediately, though some volunteered of course.

As for Meghan, on her maternal side her grandfather Alvin was born in 1929 and was therefore too young for service in WW2. Meghan was very close to her maternal grandparents, but I have never read of anyone, not Tom Snr, not Tom Jnr, not Samantha, not Meghan, ever mention Gordon.

My feeling is that (as seems to be common in the Markle clan) there were estrangements or quarrels or at the least not very much contact at all between Gordon and his grandchildren. He died when Meghan was very young I believe, unlike Alvin, so she would have no recollection of him, and may not even have been told of his war service. She loved going on that tour to visit US troops and wrote of it on her The Tig blog.

[Princess Cassandra]

The great difference between Canada and the US in WW2 is that Canada was with Britain as a realm within the British Empire/Commonwealth. It, and Australia (where I live) and NZ etc declared war on Germany directly after Britain in 1939. The US wasn't (obviously) and did not declare war on Japan (and Germany) until Pearl Harbour was attacked in December 1941. The Draft legislation had to make its way through Congress and in fact the US did not begin training men and expanding its then very small army until 1942, which was when Gordon Markle was drafted.

I have never read of huge differences in the US in the attitude of the general population towards conscripted men and those who had volunteered before 1941. (There were relatively few of them and consisted mainly of pilots who had their own squadron in the RAF.) The vast majority of service men in the US were conscripts. Therefore it would have been strange for Meghan's grandfather to have rushed over the border to Canada to volunteer in 1939/40/41.

That attitude of disdain for non volunteers certainly prevailed in Britain and in Australia in WW1, where thousands of men rushed to volunteer in the weeks after war was declared in 1914. White feathers were sometimes handed out to those young men who were still in civilian life, usually by women unfortunately.

However, Britain, with volunteers drying up, conscription began in 1915. Australia did not have conscription in WW1, but, like Britain, the numbers of volunteers began to rapidly decline as the casualty lists grew. In neither Britain nor Australia was there any great enthusiasm for war in 1939, and conscription began pretty well immediately, though some volunteered of course.

As for Meghan, on her maternal side her grandfather Alvin was born in 1929 and was therefore too young for service in WW2. Meghan was very close to her maternal grandparents, but I have never read of anyone, not Tom Snr, not Tom Jnr, not Samantha, not Meghan, ever mention Gordon.

My feeling is that (as seems to be common in the Markle clan) there were estrangements or quarrels or at the least not very much contact at all between Gordon and his grandchildren. He died when Meghan was very young I believe, unlike Alvin, so she would have no recollection of him, and may not even have been told of his war service. She loved going on that tour to visit US troops and wrote of it on her The Tig blog.

Some families really do have more drama than others - a combination of natural temperament (ie, having intense feelings) and family ways.  More importantly, many, many veterans did not want to discuss and remained silent about their service. Nowadays we might say that was due to trauma, but the sad thing is that family members would have wanted to know more.   

[TLLK]

A thread to discuss the ancestors of Meghan Markle now known as the Duchess of Sussex.

Meghan's Markle family is of Dutch/German, Irish and English heritage. Her Ragland family is descended from African people who were enslaved. I'm going to guess that they would have been from the Western part of the Continent.

Some interesting information on one of Meghan's Markle ancestors that she shares with Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, Diana, Princess of Wales and the Duchess of Cambridge.  :Jen:

Meghan Markle Duchess of Sussex, ancestry

Meghan, Duchess of Sussex

MEGHAN, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX

Meghan Markle, the American actress known for her role in Suits, became wife of Prince Harry and Duchess of Sussex after her wedding in Windsor in 2018. Gary Boyd Roberts and Christopher C. Child of the New England Historic Genealogical Society proved that she is a descendant of Harry ?Hotspur? Percy; that is an ancestor she shares, remarkably, with the Duchess of Cambridge, the late Queen Mother, the late Princess Diana, Miranda Hart (oh, and me).

[TLLK]

Some information on Meghan's Irish ancestors.

Meghan Markle's Irish roots

Markle's great-great-great-grandmother Mary Smith was born in Ireland. She moved to London in the mid-1800s and married a British soldier named Thomas Bird.

[PrincessOfPeace]

^^^

Thomas Bird was a shoemaker and Meghan's great-great-great-grandmother was a cook at Windsor Castle.

Meghan Markle's great-great-great-grandmother was cook at Windsor Castle - Wales Online

[Curryong]

There was a poster elsewhere who was very fond of saying that Edward III was the ancestor of about 80% of the English population. A more than slight exaggeration though he certainly fathered many children. He turns up in Meghan?s ancestry in the person of a clergyman who emigrated to the US in the 17th century. Another prolific begetter seems to have been Hotspur, who must have spent the majority of his adult life between the sheets!

As far as slaves are concerned it must be extremely difficult to track back. Adopted surnames, forenames given to them by owners, often sold on down the river etc. Just awful.

Royal Ancestry of Meghan Markle

[Curryong]

^^^

Thomas Bird was a shoemaker and Meghan's great-great-great-grandmother was a cook at Windsor Castle.

Meghan Markle's great-great-great-grandmother was cook at Windsor Castle - Wales Online

That?s promoting her. I have read she was a maid in the kitchens. I think the Markle side, even with Irish antecedents is fairly easy to track down. It?s the maternal side that presents problems until about the US Civil War period.

[wannable]

The British have written since year 43 AD.  The British Royals have all the database of their staff.  I wish we had access  :teehee:

[TLLK]

^ Want to add that people WILL take statements from celebs to politicians, use Google search for past historical like the quote, which I got from these immigration lawyer twitter (they are on Kenya and boat people since a few days ago to date) and will chatter about it. It's a two edge sword being in the public eye because it spreads like wild fire. In this case questioning Her and/or HM UK Government. 

An example: With this social media as fast as in seconds posting, research, endless things one can do in the internet, someone posted in twitter  a Tig (receipt) where she was stating her DNA from Malta was 43%, in her latest podcast it changed to 43% Nigerian.  :wacko: 

Am I reading this correctly?   Meghan at one time claimed her ancestry was 43% Maltese? Interesting.

[Curryong]

Am I reading this correctly?   Meghan at one time claimed her ancestry was 43% Maltese? Interesting.

Actually, Malta was a place which has a history of slave-owning, from the 15th to the 19th centuries. It was the French who abolished it there. Most of the slaves were African-born. And unfortunately sometimes (as in the US and West Indies) masters would have sex with female slaves. So it would be perfectly possible for a person with African ancestry to also have large portions of Maltese DNA.

[Macrobug67]

Actually this is her fathers great great grandmother who lived in Malta.   Born in Ireland, the daughter of a farmer, Mary Bird married a soldier and  spent time in Malta when her husband was posted there.  The Malta genetics are only by the osmosis of several years spent there as an adult.  Otherwise, pure Irish.

[Curryong]

Actually this is her fathers great great grandmother who lived in Malta.   Born in Ireland, the daughter of a farmer, Mary Bird married a soldier and  spent time in Malta when her husband was posted there.  The Malta genetics are only by the osmosis of several years spent there as an adult.  Otherwise, pure Irish.

That?s only one ancestor though. African slaves were transported all over the Mediterranean as well as to the Americas. I happen to have a friend who is Italian-born of English parentage, who had her DNA done and had 12% African heritage, to her astonishment. We only know Doris?s ancestry as far as the US goes. What if her ancestors were taken to Malta, which was a trading post for centuries.

[TLLK]

Actually this is her fathers great great grandmother who lived in Malta.   Born in Ireland, the daughter of a farmer, Mary Bird married a soldier and  spent time in Malta when her husband was posted there.  The Malta genetics are only by the osmosis of several years spent there as an adult.  Otherwise, pure Irish.

Thank you @Macrobug67. I remember now that she paid a visit to the island nation years ago, but that her ancestors were not Maltese by birth rather they were a British/Irish army family posted in one of the Empire's many colonies. As far as  I know Meghan's paternal ancestors were primarily from the UK/Ireland/The Netherlands and Germany.

[Curryong]

Thank you @Macrobug67. I remember now that she paid a visit to the island nation years ago, but that her ancestors were not Maltese by birth rather they were a British/Irish army family posted in one of the Empire's many colonies. As far as  I know Meghan's paternal ancestors were primarily from the UK/Ireland/The Netherlands and Germany.

And her mother?s ancestry?

[TLLK]

And her mother?s ancestry?

Based upon Meghan's recent revelation that she has 43% Nigerian ancestry, I presume that this is from Doria. However I could be mistaken.

Here's a little more on Mary Bird.

Meghan Markle's Irish roots

According to the family genealogist, Bird later moved to Malta where they had two daughters. Later, following the death of Thomas, the family again moved to Canada, and then later to the USA where they ultimately ended up in Pennsylvania.

[Curryong]

Actually this is her fathers great great grandmother who lived in Malta.   Born in Ireland, the daughter of a farmer, Mary Bird married a soldier and  spent time in Malta when her husband was posted there.  The Malta genetics are only by the osmosis of several years spent there as an adult.  Otherwise, pure Irish.

According to this Mary Bird was Meghan?s father?s great great grandmother, not Doris?s. I seem to remember that, at the time of Meghan?s engagement a genealogist took Doris?s ancestry back as far as she could in the US. However, hardly surprisingly, earlier than the 19th century there are huge gaps in the known ancestry of 99% of African Americans as far as their African ancestry is concerned, including Doris?s. I?ve got a feeling that a tabloid printed the result of this woman?s research and it went back to just before the Civil War in some lines (the Ragland line)  and couldn?t get past a block in records in others. I?ll try and find it again.

[Curryong]

According to this Meghan did NOT say that her ancestor Mary Bird was born on Malta.

Unseen pictures of Meghan Markle show her exploring Maltese ancestry in traditional headdress before marrying Prince Harry | The Sun

She went to Malta for a photo op, but the Fail reports her as saying

According to website 89.7 Bay, she said of her trip: ?Coming to Malta has been really important to me because my great-great-grandmother ?lived here?, so we?ve been trying to trace the ancestry.?

She says lived here (in Malta.) Another source says Mary Bird was born on Malta (but doesn?t say she was Maltese.) When she got to Malta and heard about the ancestry of locals Meghan would surely have known that her ancestor had English roots. Of course we don?t know what the Markles stated about their ancestry. There could have been some muddled story going down the Bird/Markle  family that a young Maltese girl married an Englishman and migrated to the US. Who knows? Families believe all sorts of things.

Mary Bird?s daughter, also a Mary, was born on Malta in 1862, while Thomas Bird was serving there, so that?s who Meghan was talking about in the Malta interview.

[Macrobug67]

Born to an Irish mom and Dad.  Not Maltese.  So no Maltese genes.(unless there was some hanky panky going on)