Royal Insight Forum

The place (and only place, please) to post articles and discuss the history of the Wales' engagement, marriage, separation and divorce.  Have fun and please be respectful of others opinions.

Royal Pictures from History: the engagement of Charles and Diana ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/royal-pictures-from-history-the-engagement-of-charles-and-diana-138146/)

QuoteAs a future king, his wedding was always going to be big news. For years, Prince Charles had been the subject of chatter about who and when he would marry and when he did announce his engagement to Lady Diana Spencer, on February 24th 1981, it made headlines around the world. The moment the couple appeared before the cameras for the first time as bride and groom to be captured imaginations with one part of the press call producing a very famous image indeed. In this occasional series, Royal Central takes a look at some of the most well known royal pictures of all.

Okay who remembers this day from 1981?
I was a senior in high school and was leaving the house to drive to school with my sister when my mother shared the news.

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BBC ON THIS DAY | 24 | 1981: Prince Charles and Lady Di to marry (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/24/newsid_2516000/2516759.stm)

Yes, I remember them walking together arm in arm on the lawn. Diana's suit and pussycat bow blouse was chosen by her mother as being suitable for the occasion, and looked like it (chosen by a woman in her forties!) Certainly not the usual sort of outfit any nineteen year old would have worn by choice.

I believe Diana later said that she thought the suit didn't flatter her as it showed up her baby fat. Charles apparently affectionately pinched her on the waist and said something like 'Still a bit pudgy there' setting off all kinds of insecurities about her waistline.

I also remember the short standing interview of that same day which included Charles's notorious, often pointed to comment 'Whatever loves means..!'

"Baby fat" she hardly had any IMHO. While the suit was a bit mature IMO, the color was absolutely gorgeous and so flattering on her.

I loved Diana's round and rosy little face in her engagement/first married years, and felt that older Diana look, the rather bony, sleek greyhound appearance, while wonderful for wearing all sorts of clothing, was in some part indicative of the huge stress she was under in her later years. Diana looked like a little peach at her engagement photoshoot and not at all plump, but it was HER perception that she was indeed overweight that set her off on binge eating during her engagement, apparently.

Diana wore a variation of the engagement suit a few years later.

diana in blue suit - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=diana+in+blue+suit&sxsrf=ALeKk00ees5q7-EEck5raasfccIm7LhNAg:1582595656976&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=v4UcVZbBaqBesM%253A%252CK5pbh_nW7V1llM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSsP04yZROY8JUedJkrGA0UDw80hQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiz1tOfzOvnAhUrlHIEHTLLDhQQ9QEwAnoECAcQIA#imgrc=mHAv41fGuo1b2M)

Great photo find @sandy. Diana looked stunning in cobalt.

Here is a video of the engagement without the narration.     
THE ENGAGEMENT OF THE PRINCE OF WALES AND LADY DIANA SPENCER - NO SOUND - COLOUR - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym5mYqxL5Rk)

Quote from: sandy on February 25, 2020, 01:55:06 AM
Diana wore a variation of the engagement suit a few years later.

diana in blue suit - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=diana+in+blue+suit&sxsrf=ALeKk00ees5q7-EEck5raasfccIm7LhNAg:1582595656976&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=v4UcVZbBaqBesM%253A%252CK5pbh_nW7V1llM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSsP04yZROY8JUedJkrGA0UDw80hQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiz1tOfzOvnAhUrlHIEHTLLDhQQ9QEwAnoECAcQIA#imgrc=mHAv41fGuo1b2M)

She was so beautiful, and made whatever she wore look good. Much was later said about the matronly look of this suit, and in retrospect I suppose it was, but she made the suit look good. And of course, almost any color looked good on her. Now she has four grandchildren!

What do you think of Prince Charles proposing to Lady Diana at Clarence House? Or perhaps at his grandmother's Castle of Mey?   
   

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on March 04, 2020, 12:06:01 AM
What do you think of Prince Charles proposing to Lady Diana at Clarence House? Or perhaps at his grandmother's Castle of Mey?   
   

:vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub: :vday2: :wub:

Why on earth would he have proposed at either of those locations? Diana had a job at the London nursery and as a part time nanny for an American family at that time. She didn't have time to go scooting off here there and everywhere. She had a life with her friends.

Why would she agree to go up to the north of Scotland to a remote castle, a place where the QM loved to go and fish? Diana wasn't into Scottish country sports. Windsor Castle was the place where the proposal happened and that was convenient to Charles and semi-so for Diana, but of course Charles's wants were uppermost.

Wasn't Charles living at BP when he proposed to Lady Diana Spencer? Clarence House was occupied by his maternal grandmother.

Correct on both counts, TLLK. There was no need for Charles to propose at Clarence House, either. Like Castle Mey it was his grandmother's home. He probably proposed at Windsor because it is a discreet and private place and not occupied by  family members unlike BP.

i don't know how one could think of his doing this, since he did NOT propose at either location.  It didn't happen.  I had thought that Charles did propose at Cam's house, perhaps he made a sort of pre proposal suggestion when Diana was (as she often was) staying with Camilla, during their courtship.  But on reflection, I understand that he proposed In his apartments at Windsor..Probably because Diana was being chased around London, during her courtship with him so he watned it to be somewhere that they were relatively unlikey to be bothered by some press hound trying to get  a shot of her...

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Quote from: TLLK on March 04, 2020, 02:59:01 AM
Wasn't Charles living at BP when he proposed to Lady Diana Spencer? Clarence House was occupied by his maternal grandmother.

Yes  he had an apartment in BP at the time and moved to an apartment in Kensington P when he married. And he had Highgrove but at the time he was havng it decorated so he was camping there at weekends.. so Diana often visited and stayed at Cam's house...

I think Charles proposing to Diana in Camilla's garden is myth. Though I understand he was telling her that he wanted her to help decorate Highgrove and she refused. This may have been his way of leading up to a proposal down the road but she refused. She got a call from him while he was away and told her he had a question to ask her, later she went to Windsor and he proposed to her over a candlelit dinner in the old  Windsor nursery. He told his mother and later Earl Spencer about the proposal, by phone.

Quote from: sandy on March 04, 2020, 01:47:11 PM
I think Charles proposing to Diana in Camilla's garden is myth. Though I understand he was telling her that he wanted her to help decorate Highgrove and she refused. This may have been his way of leading up to a proposal down the road but she refused. She got a call from him while he was away and told her he had a question to ask her, later she went to Windsor and he proposed to her over a candlelit dinner in the old  Windsor nursery. He told his mother and later Earl Spencer about the proposal, by phone.

Thanks for posting that, Sandy. It's good to know. I was going to say that she did go up to Balmoral, but it was at the beginning of their relationship, so he wouldn't have proposed then. As I recall she was sort of hiding behind a tree while he was fishing, because the press were already hounding. Isn't it amazing they still haven't stopped!

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on June 23, 2020, 09:53:46 PM
I think things should be seen with her marriage in mind. It was complicated.

IMO, if the marriage had been good she wouldn't have minded being in Balmoral for a couple of weeks.

One of the reasons that the marriage was difficult was that she DIDNT like the upper class rituals of spending a lot of time in the coutntry and the country sports which her husband and much of his family loved.   She DID mind being at Balmoral, it was for quite a few weeks every year, during the Shooting season.. then visiting the queen at Christmas and Easter.. having Charles shooting and Hunting at Highgrove many weekends.  She didn't liek that at all... and the queens' attitude at the time was that incomers to the family had to turn up in Balmoral each August and spend a few weeks and Diana disliked it and grew to dislike it more and more . If her objections to the coutntry were to do with her marriage, she might well have gotten at least a country cottage, after the marriage ended..but she didn't becauase she did not enjoy that sort of life at all.  She thought of renting a house for a while but that was to give the boys somewhere to shoot etc at weekends.. and when her first choice fell through she seems to have dropped the idea completely.  In her later years, she was away on sunshine holidays in August, not in the country.   She took the boys abroad, rather than find somewhere in England...

It was nice how Princess Diana put her sons' interests first.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on June 25, 2020, 04:54:25 PM
It was nice how Princess Diana put her sons' interests first.

You mean she wanted to have a place for them to go shooting?

Quote from: QueenAlex on June 24, 2020, 07:47:41 AM
One of the reasons that the marriage was difficult was that she DIDNT like the upper class rituals of spending a lot of time in the coutntry and the country sports which her husband and much of his family loved.   She DID mind being at Balmoral, it was for quite a few weeks every year, during the Shooting season.. then visiting the queen at Christmas and Easter.. having Charles shooting and Hunting at Highgrove many weekends.  She didn't liek that at all... and the queens' attitude at the time was that incomers to the family had to turn up in Balmoral each August and spend a few weeks and Diana disliked it and grew to dislike it more and more . If her objections to the coutntry were to do with her marriage, she might well have gotten at least a country cottage, after the marriage ended..but she didn't becauase she did not enjoy that sort of life at all.  She thought of renting a house for a while but that was to give the boys somewhere to shoot etc at weekends.. and when her first choice fell through she seems to have dropped the idea completely.  In her later years, she was away on sunshine holidays in August, not in the country.   She took the boys abroad, rather than find somewhere in England...

I think the RF spends about six weeks at Balmoral? Diana went there every year, if I'm not mistaken, until her separation. So whether she liked it or not, she did her 'part' as a wife and daughter in law. There are many, many married couples whose in-laws' interests don't necessarily appeal to the spouse. Nonetheless they make an effort to participate in one way or another. Diana did just that.

Country houses are expensive. If she was only going to go visit the country for a few times a year she might as well have stayed with friends. Which she did iirc.

Diana also knew that her sons had access to Balmoral and Sandringham for their country pursuits. It was not irrational on her behalf to complement that lifestyle with offering them vacations to sunny places.

Quote from: QueenAlex on June 26, 2020, 11:28:13 AM
You mean she wanted to have a place for them to go shooting?

@QueenAlex, I meant that Diana wanted her sons to see the interests that average boys (those who are not royal) would have. She took the Princes to amusement parks and restaurants.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on June 26, 2020, 11:39:01 PM
   
@QueenAlex, I meant that Diana wanted her sons to see the interests that average boys (those who are not royal) would have. She took the Princes to amusement parks and restaurants.

Im not sure what that has to do wiht her taking a house so they coudl have their country sports

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Quote from: oak_and_cedar on June 26, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
I think the RF spends about six weeks at Balmoral? Diana went there every year, if I'm not mistaken, until her separation. So whether she liked it or not, she did her 'part' as a wife and daughter in law. There are many, many married couples whose in-laws' interests don't necessarily appeal to the spouse. Nonetheless they make an effort to participate in one way or another. Diana did just that.

Country houses are expensive. If she was only going to go visit the country for a few times a year she might as well have stayed with friends. Which she did iirc.

Diana also knew that her sons had access to Balmoral and Sandringham for their country pursuits. It was not irrational on her behalf to complement that lifestyle with offering them vacations to sunny places.

But the point was, she didn't like country life, or sports.  She was a rich woman, do you think she could not have rented a country cottage for weekends and holidays without worrying about the cost?  She did consider taking one at Althorp because the boys got a bit itchy during their weekends and times with her, if they were stuck in her London apartment.. I don't know of her staying with country based friends...
She didn't like Balmoral or the country life that much of the RF including Charles and the queen positively love... In time I think she grew to really hate it and only went because she was obliged to as Charles' wife.  She barely tolerated the times at Balmoral as time progressed and she got more restless.  As I've said, when obliged to go to Highgrove at weekends, to take the boys there, she was bored stiff and unhappy and spent the time on the phone...

She really didn't like something that is very much part of the RF's life, particularly Charles, and only just tolerated it... Since she had little in common with Charles as it was, it meant that she and he were more and more at odds.

Why write about Diana disliking country life as if somehow it was a sort of congenital fault or deliberate choice not to like it to upset Charles and his family? She didn't like Balmoral or country life in general, particularly. So what? Charles didn't particularly like places his wife loved either. Apparently though, Charles isn't to be blamed for that!

Sandringham and Balmoral arent some Holy Grails or Temples of the Gods! If Diana didn't like being there then she didn't like it. Queen Mary apparently hated it up there as well. Neither she nor Queen Alexandra, nor for that matter the QM except for fly fishing, took part in country sports or in Mary's case, rode ponies through the rain, the heather and the midges.

Margaret was bored with life in Balmoral and spent most of the time in her room listening to the radio and putting photos in albums. Some people are urbanites like Margaret and Diana, some are country bods like Charles. Neither are to blame for liking one or the other. The Wales marriage ran onto the rocks due to many things besides Diana not liking (how DARE she) what Charles happened to love.

If you marry into a family which has a big big big tradition of spending a lot of time in the country, and you don't like it, (in fact IMO she grew to hate it..) then you are setting yourself up for a lot of boredom and misery.  At the time, the queen expected in laws to turn up and participate in the whole experience or at least to stay at Balmoral and do their best to enjoy the house party.   Diana had spent quite  bit of her courtship with Charles watching him fish and shoot, she knew what the RF are like, so didn't she realise that this was going to be a big part of her life from now on?  Why impose that on yourself if you don't have to? I don't blame Charles for thinking that his wife enjoyed country life, she had  IMO given that impression when they were courting.. but it seems to have abruptly stopped during their Balmoral honeymoon.  And I think that that was partly due to Di's bulimia and partly due to her suddenly realising that this was what she had let herself in for and she really didn't like it... but wasn't' able to amuse herself all that well when Charles did go out to do his country sports.

I think that yes there were many reasons for the failure of the marriage but a big one was a laick of a common outlook, Diana being very young for her age and Charles being old for his.. and a lack of common interests.

Well, Alexandra, Mary and Margaret seem to have not got the memo that you HAVE to participate in country sports and the incessant rain, etc, and ENJOY it, OR ELSE! So that dislike wasn't just solely Diana!

Perhaps the Queen could have pulled her mindset away from circa 1930, GOD FORBID I know it would have been sooo difficult, and not expected and insisted on relatives, including her sister, and her daughter in law enjoying the 'pleasures' of stalking stags, catching fish on the ends of hooks and shooting grouse out of the sky, and the talk about it thereafter. Instead just invite them to participate in the way the Swedish and Danish RFs get together in one country home and enjoy themselves then and nowadays.

Quote from: Curryong on June 27, 2020, 08:50:15 AM
Well, Alexandra, Mary and Margaret seem to have not got the memo that you HAVE to participate in country sports and the incessant rain, etc, and ENJOY it, OR ELSE! So that dislike wasn't just solely Diana!

Perhaps the Queen could have pulled her mindset away from circa 1930, GOD FORBID I know it would have been sooo difficult, and not expected and insisted on relatives, including her sister, and her daughter in law enjoying the 'pleasures' of stalking stags, catching fish on the ends of hooks and shooting grouse out of the sky, and the talk about it thereafter. Instead just invite them to participate in the way the Swedish and Danish RFs get together in one country home and enjoy themselves then and nowadays.

But that's the Queen and the RF of the time Diana married into them.  The other princesses and queens may have been bored but they put up with it..
Diana seems to have shown interest during her courtship and then abruptly stopped after her marriage.  SO I'm sure some royals felt that she had done it till she got the ring on her finger and had then stopped and fretted about Charles doing it.
And it was Diana who suffered.   She was expected to turn up and make the best of things so she did it for years and years, and got more and more hostile I think to the country... so again, why put yourself in for that if you don't have to?
Nowadays the Queen is more lenient and younger royals aren't expected to turn up in the same way.. and yet I've seen people complaining that Kate "wasn't there for the walk to Church at Christmas and its part of hr duty to be seen at that time.."

Quote from: QueenAlex on June 27, 2020, 06:50:45 AM

But the point was, she didn't like country life, or sports.  She was a rich woman, do you think she could not have rented a country cottage for weekends and holidays without worrying about the cost?  She did consider taking one at Althorp because the boys got a bit itchy during their weekends and times with her, if they were stuck in her London apartment.. I don't know of her staying with country based friends...
She didn't like Balmoral or the country life that much of the RF including Charles and the queen positively love... In time I think she grew to really hate it and only went because she was obliged to as Charles' wife.  She barely tolerated the times at Balmoral as time progressed and she got more restless.  As I've said, when obliged to go to Highgrove at weekends, to take the boys there, she was bored stiff and unhappy and spent the time on the phone...

She really didn't like something that is very much part of the RF's life, particularly Charles, and only just tolerated it... Since she had little in common with Charles as it was, it meant that she and he were more and more at odds.

The point is, she still participated all of the years she was married because of her spouse. I think that most married couples do that and it was kind and wise of her to do this, regardless of her own like or dislike.

Her children could visit their father and his side of their family in their country estastes. Diana complemented this by providing vacation in sunny places. Completely reasonable thing to do, IMO.

Did Lady Sara and Lady Jane ask their sister Diana if she truly liked being in a country life atmosphere?

Why should they? All the siblings grew up in the same house in Norfolk, in the countryside. Diana's later boarding school (the same one her sisters had attended) was surrounded by countryside. Althorp is in the English countryside. Diana visited her sisters Jane in her quarters at Balmoral and Sarah in her marital home. All countryside.  If they couldn't gauge what her attitude was to rural activities and pursuits after nearly twenty years of life then I feel sorry for them.

However, the main and IMO defining difference between what Diana felt about her family home, Wood Farm, on the Sandringham estate, and what she found at Balmoral and Sandringham is that at Wood Farm she was surrounded by family and old family friends she was used to, who loved her, where she wasn't judged, wasn't automatically in a position where she was expected to help entertain others and where life was fairly informal, though there were servants in an upper mc setting.

The family sometimes hosted shoots as happened later at Althorp. Again it was much less formal than at Balmoral with its half a dozen changes of clothing a day, and Diana could go for a swim if she felt like it or for a walk with her siblings or friends, rather than participating in the shoots or talking everlastingly about it all around the dinner table. And the talk would be of family and neighbourly matters as well.

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on June 27, 2020, 08:56:33 PM
The point is, she still participated all of the years she was married because of her spouse. I think that most married couples do that and it was kind and wise of her to do this, regardless of her own like or dislike.

Her children could visit their father and his side of their family in their country estastes. Diana complemented this by providing vacation in sunny places. Completely reasonable thing to do, IMO.

She didn't have any choice but to visit Balmoral etc during the time of her marriage. It was not her being "kind or wise" - it was expected of her just like her charity duties.  And after the separation she clearly did toy with the idea of having a country place of her own, because the boys enjoyed their country sports and were I think frustrated at times by spending holidays or weekends with her in London.. where the press were around and there wasn't as much to do.

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Quote from: Curryong on June 28, 2020, 02:36:06 AM
Why should they? All the siblings grew up in the same house in Norfolk, in the countryside. Diana's later boarding school (the same one her sisters had attended) was surrounded by countryside. Althorp is in the English countryside. Diana visited her sisters Jane in her quarters at Balmoral and Sarah in her marital home. All countryside.  If they couldn't gauge what her attitude was to rural activities and pursuits after nearly twenty years of life then I feel sorry for them.

However, the main and IMO defining difference between what Diana felt about her family home, Wood Farm, on the Sandringham estate, and what she found at Balmoral and Sandringham is that at Wood Farm she was surrounded by family and old family friends she was used to, who loved her, where she wasn't judged, wasn't automatically in a position where she was expected to help entertain others and where life was fairly informal, though there were servants in an upper mc setting.

The family sometimes hosted shoots as happened later at Althorp. Again it was much less formal than at Balmoral with its half a dozen changes of clothing a day, and Diana could go for a swim if she felt like it or for a walk with her siblings or friends, rather than participating in the shoots or talking everlastingly about it all around the dinner table. And the talk would be of family and neighbourly matters as well.

I think she just accepted county life as a child because you tend to accept whatever life your family has as normal...     And she was also away at boarding school a good deal of her childhood where she had activities that she enjoyed.. and when she came home for holidays she had her pets, and her swimming and tennis. I doubt if any of her family discussed whether they liked the life they had, it was just accepted.  But when Diana was older she DID want to go to London, she was very keen on it and her mother and father were  worried about her being so young and being in the big city..  so  Frances helped her buy a flat.. where she woudl be "safe"...
And from then on, I don't think she was all that keen on a return to the country.  She and her flatmates went home or visited friends in the country at the weekends but Diana was happier in the city.

Quote from: QueenAlex on June 28, 2020, 06:55:45 AM


I think she just accepted county life as a child because you tend to accept whatever life your family has as normal...     And she was also away at boarding school a good deal of her childhood where she had activities that she enjoyed.. and when she came home for holidays she had her pets, and her swimming and tennis. I doubt if any of her family discussed whether they liked the life they had, it was just accepted.  But when Diana was older she DID want to go to London, she was very keen on it and her mother and father were  worried about her being so young and being in the big city..  so  Frances helped her buy a flat.. where she woudl be "safe"...
And from then on, I don't think she was all that keen on a return to the country.  She and her flatmates went home or visited friends in the country at the weekends but Diana was happier in the city.

But neither of her sisters went back to the country either after their education was over, did they? They both got jobs in London, at Vogue at first. Jane didn't marry a man with a country estate (they mostly lived in London) and Sarah only married a gentleman farmer due to love. There's no evidence that Sarah was desperately in love with country sports etc. Diana didn't go back to Althorp after her schooling because she hated Raine who took over there, and her mother gave in about the flat. Diana was supremely happy with her little jobs in her flat with her friends, but if she had had a country cottage and the same friends and a job nearby as a nanny she would probably have loved that too. 

The point with Diana is that she thrived where she felt safe, valued and comfortable. Diana felt that way among kith and kin in a country house in Norfolk, and felt the opposite at Balmoral and Sandringham. In other words it wasn't the countryside around Balmoral that made her feel like she was a fish out of water but the members of the Royal Family whom she didn't know very well and whom she felt judged by and whose excessively formal way of life and huntin', shootin' and fishin' conversation left her floundering.

but we're not discussing Jane and Sarah.  They didn't marry Charles..
I think that countryside didn't appeal to Diana per se...
  The things that the queen and Charles loved about Balmoral for example, didn't appeal to her.  She didn't like the sports.. she didn't like the weather, she didn't like the isolation.  The queen and Charles I think like getting away from it all as much as they can, being able to walk for miles and shoot or ride.   Diana didn't want to trudge through miles of muddy grass or fish or shoot. She felt safer IMO in an urban setting. 
She got her exercise swimming and tennis playng and going to the gym, and she preferred hot sunny weather to bracing rain.
I dont know if had she not married Charles she would have settled for a  job in the country as a nanny for example..  Possibly if she'd lived in a country town, and had friends around her, she might not have disliked it..But I think she preferred London, where she could see friends, go to movies, go shopping, and so on. But I can't imagine her settling for a job in the coutntry if she could work in London.
I think she was Ok with the countryside as a backdrop when she was a kid, as we tend to accept and love our familiar home.. but she didn't later.  I'm not sure if she was that close to her sisters, as they grew older.
But if she had enjoyed country life more, she would not have felt so much a fish out of water in Balmoral...
Besides, in later life, she never showed any enthusiasm for finding a country home.. even though her mother had chosen a more rural life in middle age.  She had loved London but later chose to live in Scotland...  But Diana could have found a country cottage for weekends, and invited her own friends there but she never did...

Quote from: QueenAlex on June 28, 2020, 06:55:45 AM
She didn't have any choice but to visit Balmoral etc during the time of her marriage. It was not her being "kind or wise" - it was expected of her just like her charity duties.  And after the separation she clearly did toy with the idea of having a country place of her own, because the boys enjoyed their country sports and were I think frustrated at times by spending holidays or weekends with her in London.. where the press were around and there wasn't as much to do.

She did her duty as a spouse, that is wise. IMO.

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 04, 2020, 08:39:09 PM
She did her duty as a spouse, that is wise. IMO.

she dindt' have any alternative..  She was married to the Queen's son. In an ordinary family she might have been able to refuse to go for long holidays to her mother in laws' place, or refused to host country weekends and shooting parties for her husband.... but she couldn't do that as the queen's daughter in law.  The position of wife to the heir to the throne came with social duties and she couldn't get out of them.   Once she did have a choice, she didn't do country things...

Diana did not want to get out of them, IMO.

She spent every year of her marriage going to Balmoral and only stopped after the separation.

If you are separated, why go to your spouses estate?

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 06, 2020, 04:05:23 AM
Diana did not want to get out of them, IMO.

She spent every year of her marriage going to Balmoral and only stopped after the separation.

If you are separated, why go to your spouses estate?

She didnt like ti at Balmoral, @Oak.  right from her honeymoon.  If you read about her there is an account of Diana's spending time with one of Charles' aides, when she was at Balmoral.  he was keeping her company while Charles was out shooting or stalking and she was miserable..  There are accounts of her rowing with Charles over going shooting or hunting.  She put up with  the weekends in the country's and Balmoral because she had no choice but increasingly she disliked the whole rural set up and did not want to do it.  When she and Charles separated, as I said, she could have had a county cottage but she didn't really want one.   She spent some weekends with J Hewitt at his family's country cottage, when she was seeing him but that was I suspect mainly so that she coudl see him.  HOwever we're not goign to agree on this... so Im going to drop it.

She became pregnant during the honeymoon and experienced morning sickness and hormonal changes as most pregnant women do. It's not unreasonable that she had discussions with her husband about the time he spent away from her.

I think her dislike had to do with the state of her marriage and not the 'country life' per se.

Maintaining an estate is often expensive and there could have been other solutions. She had family and friends who could provide that sort of 'life' to her and her children if she wanted to. Plus, if her children wanted her to be at Sandringham or Balmoral I seriously doubt HM or prince Philip would have said no. They would probably welcome her. So she didn't have to purchase an estate.

What is this about buying  an estate.  Nobody suggested this.  She wanted to take a house in the Althorp estate as a place for the boys to have their country sports, but when she and her brother hit problems over the cottage she dropped the idea and never seems to have considered it again.  The boys went to Balmoral in the summer to spend time with their father and grandparents, and Diana wasn't likely to be invited to that house party.. but she was invited for Christmas to the RF's celebration.. and she would not even stay for lunch.

She could either rent or purchase a country house which was not practical since she could stay at friends' houses was my point.

That was in the summer of '97 where she had the disagreement with her brother, if i'm not mistaken? She couldn't 'never have considered it again' for obvious reasons.

We don't know that. Balmoral is the residence of the monarch and HM might have invited Diana.

How do you know she did not stay for lunch?

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 12, 2020, 05:41:08 AM
She could either rent or purchase a country house which was not practical since she could stay at friends' houses was my point.

That was in the summer of '97 where she had the disagreement with her brother, if i'm not mistaken? She couldn't 'never have considered it again' for obvious reasons.

We don't know that. Balmoral is the residence of the monarch and HM might have invited Diana.

How do you know she did not stay for lunch?

No, the dispute about the country cottage was around 1993,  when she was separated from P Charles.  Charles S and D  had an argument about the house as it turned out not to be the best choice for security reasons, and Charles S was a little wary about having Diana living there  but he offered her other houses on the estate.  Diana got angry and they rowed.  They were estranged for a time and Diana never seems to have considered renting a country place again.   She didn't stay at friends' country houses, she did visit James Hewitts' family place which was in the country but that was to pursue her affair with him.   Left to her own devices she had no desire to visit or live in the country.

Why would the queen invite Diana to Balmoral?  They go there for the shooting, and Charles had the boys to stay in August, which left Di free to go on her own holidays.. Diana was hardly likely to be invited when she didn't like the Scottish estate, the RF were fed up with her and the shooting season was a time for the boys to visit him and the queen...
She was invited a couple of Christmases but as far as I can remember, she left straight after church...

This article says it was in '96
Princess Diana's former staff attack Earl Spencer | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4776528/Princess-Diana-s-former-staff-attack-Earl-Spencer.html)

Diana did have visits to friends who lived in the country.

Diana visited Hewitt and his family because they were in a relationship. That does not necessarily imply a 'dislike' of the country side. IIRC Hewitt even said that he and Diana spent time outdoors walking and so on.

If Lady Diana had not met Prince Charles and had met James Hewitt when he was single, do you think she might have married James?

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 15, 2020, 02:51:17 AM
This article says it was in '96
Princess Diana's former staff attack Earl Spencer | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4776528/Princess-Diana-s-former-staff-attack-Earl-Spencer.html)

Diana did have visits to friends who lived in the country.

Diana visited Hewitt and his family because they were in a relationship. That does not necessarily imply a 'dislike' of the country side. IIRC Hewitt even said that he and Diana spent time outdoors walking and so on.

As far as I can remember it was earlier than that.  But maybe I'm wrong..  However it was some time before her death and she didn't make any further attempts to find a country house.  She only wanted a place to bring the boys and they already had Balmoral and royal places.  Charles Spencer did offer her other houses on the estate but she got in a rage with him and would not compromise.  I dont know of her having many visits to friends in the country.. She had outgrown the British aristocracy in her last few years and didn't want the "shooting parties and country weekends" when she could go and have 3 summer holidays in some expensive place abroad.. which is where she went for holidays.

She met with Hewitt either at Highgrove or his mother's house but that was for reasons of avoiding the press. 

She didn't make any attempts at finding a country house because there was no need for it in '97.

We don't know that Diana got in a 'rage' with her brother. They had an argument and then made up. Diana isn't here to tell her side.

I don't think she 'outgrew' any of her friends regardless of their 'station'. She did have vacations abroad but if she were invited to the country side now and then I doubt she'd say no, IMO.

Her meeting Hewitt at Highgrove or at his mothers' doesn't indicate a dislike for the countryside. Indeed, Hewitt has spoken about how they used to take long walks in the country. That implies that her 'behaviour' did not have anything to do with her 'dislike' of the country but everything to do with the state of her marriage. IMO.

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 19, 2020, 08:03:28 PM
She didn't make any attempts at finding a country house because there was no need for it in '97.

We don't know that Diana got in a 'rage' with her brother. They had an argument and then made up. Diana isn't here to tell her side.

I don't think she 'outgrew' any of her friends regardless of their 'station'. She did have vacations abroad but if she were invited to the country side now and then I doubt she'd say no, IMO.

Her meeting Hewitt at Highgrove or at his mothers' doesn't indicate a dislike for the countryside. Indeed, Hewitt has spoken about how they used to take long walks in the country. That implies that her 'behaviour' did not have anything to do with her 'dislike' of the country but everything to do with the state of her marriage. IMO.

Tehy had to take long walks in the countryside because that was where they met.  there wasn't much else to do.  They met at highgrove or his mother's country cottage.. and Hewitt is such an egotist that he probably thought that he and he alone had made her conquer her bored dislike of country life.
Yes there was a bitter row between Charles S and his sister, where he returned her letters unopened because he was trying to calm things down between them...a nd he asked for her to return the Spencer Tiara.   He got pretty annoyed with her, and they were on bad terms for a while.. but they did make up in the end. 
Diana never looked for another country cottage because she didn't really want one that much... she had just wanted somewhere that the boys could go shooting when she had them to stay on weekends...
And IMO she would have gone on taking her holidays abroad, in expensive and foreign locations rather than visiting family or friends in the UK

Well I do agree that Hewitt is an egotist. And that his mothers place was a safe place to meet. However, that in and of itself does not necessarily prove Diana's 'aversion' to some country activities.

It could very well be that Diana was happy and content with Hewitt and could do things she liked such as going for long walks. She obviously did not care for stalking and so did not join PC. However it seems that Hewitt did like to go on walks with her.

Diana isn't here to give her side of the story. I think it was siblings having disagreements but they got over it and made up, like you wrote.

Diana might have gotten a country cottage later on in life, it could have been convenient for her. It was just that other things were a priority for her at the time, her boys had Balmoral and so it wasn't at the top of her list then. IMO.

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Double post auto-merged: July 26, 2020, 07:53:58 PM

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Quote from: LouisFerdinand on July 15, 2020, 07:20:32 AM
If Lady Diana had not met Prince Charles and had met James Hewitt when he was single, do you think she might have married James?

@LouisFerdinand

I think she might have. However I don't think the marriage would have lasted.

Lady Diana was of the Aristocracy/Nobility. James was not. He may not have liked all the duties, responsibilities, and events of the Aristocracy/Nobility.

Unless she changed, (as her mother did in middle life) I dont see any reason she would have gotten a counrty cottage. I think she wanted it mainly for the boys, and once she had a row with Charles S (which was quite heated) she lost interest. She could have had a cottage at Althorp, but she got annoyed at Charles S and dropped the idea.  So if she didn't do it then for the boys why would she do it later?
I think she was frustrated at times with living in KP which was in the middle of London, and which was probably a lonely place at weekends, when many of her friends would be at their country homes.. and it was living in her ex's family house.. but she got away on foreign holidays...
Hewitt seems to have believed that he had conquered Diana's aversion to horses and country life.. but the truth was that Diana probably mildly enjoyed a weekend in the country where she was able to see her lover and be safe from prying cameras and so came across as really enjoying the life.. but it was being with him that she enjoyed. When she got fed up with him and realised how little she could trust him, she seems to have dropped any dreams of a little country cottage. 

We simply will never know Diana's future plans. She might have wanted a country home when she remarried for her family. I think though that at the time she didn?t need it and put the idea on ice.

Yes, Hewitt probably thinks he Gods gift to women lol. But she grew up in the country and though she didn't like stalking etc. she probably was fond of taking long walks and so on. She was with Hewitt and it was only natural that she'd focus on him and be happy in his presence.

I think Hewitt comes across at manipulative, vindictive and 'unpleasant' at times, IMO. I think she wanted out when she realized this. In addition to not trusting him, as you say. But I don't think she had 'given up' on any plans for the country. If she had another marriage I think she would have liked to be there IMO.

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 29, 2020, 07:51:46 AM
We simply will never know Diana's future plans. She might have wanted a country home when she remarried for her family. I think though that at the time she didn?t need it and put the idea on ice.

Yes, Hewitt probably thinks he Gods gift to women lol. But she grew up in the country and though she didn't like stalking etc. she probably was fond of taking long walks and so on. She was with Hewitt and it was only natural that she'd focus on him and be happy in his presence.

I think Hewitt comes across at manipulative, vindictive and 'unpleasant' at times, IMO. I think she wanted out when she realized this. In addition to not trusting him, as you say. But I don't think she had 'given up' on any plans for the country. If she had another marriage I think she would have liked to be there IMO.

Diana wanted out of the relationship with JH when he began to sell her story. She got  frightened of him.. and realised that he was in it largely for the money.  But for a time she was in love with him and he was her escape from the difficulties of her life.. so she clung to him.  She met him in country places mostly, either his mothers home or Highgrove where she had more chance of keeping their affair private.  But that didn't mean she wanted to live in the country..
I cant see why she would have chosen to lead a country life if she remarried.. I doubt if she would have found a country squire who would have been happy with her as Englishmen dont usually care for all that publicity... and I dont think she would have wanted to be stuck in the country with wellies and wet weather.  Maybe a country cottage for occasional weekends but one of her issues with Charles, was that he loved country life and its sports and farming...and she didt.
If she had remarried i doubt if ti would have been an Englishman.. Probably a rich American or possibly someone else rich and foreign who had homes abraod... She already spent most of her holidays abroad in sunny climes... and I think one reason that she did attach briefly to Dodi was that he or at least his father was so rich that they lived all over the world..

Thirty-nine years ago, the PoW and the Lady Diana Spencer were married at St. Paul's Cathedral in London. It was my 18th birthday and I celebrated by waking up at 3am Pacific time to watch the live coverage.

Royal Wedding Rewind: The Prince of Wales and Lady Diana Spencer ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/royal-wedding-rewind-the-prince-of-wales-and-lady-diana-spencer-144889/)

I was a bit older, lol, but I remember that day so well! As I've often said, there was something magic about it all, St Pauls crowded with foreign royals and dignitaries, the first wedding of a Prince of Wales for about 120 years, the coach, uniforms, beautiful bride, ecstatic crowds. How could anything possible go wrong!

@Curryong-While I thoroughly enjoyed watching and reading about other weddings, IMHO this was THE royal wedding of the 20th century when it came to pomp and pageantry.

Quote from: TLLK on July 30, 2020, 03:45:45 PM
@Curryong-While I thoroughly enjoyed watching and reading about other weddings, IMHO this was THE royal wedding of the 20th century when it came to pomp and pageantry.

Yes but it is too sad, to think of how difficult the marriage was....

I like the YouTube video of the Glass Coach arriving at St. Paul Cathedral. The 25-foot train is quite long. Lady Sarah and India did a good job of keeping it in order.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on July 26, 2020, 11:25:28 PM
Lady Diana was of the Aristocracy/Nobility. James was not. He may not have liked all the duties, responsibilities, and events of the Aristocracy/Nobility.

what are all these "duties" and events that he would not have liked?

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on July 26, 2020, 11:25:28 PM
Lady Diana was of the Aristocracy/Nobility. James was not. He may not have liked all the duties, responsibilities, and events of the Aristocracy/Nobility.

Why on earth would marrying an Earl's daughter mean that James would have taken on 'the duties, responsibilities, and events of the nobility'? There have been several commoners who have married the daughters of Earls who have just carried on with their ordinary lives and careers as normal, as have their wives.
If you mean that he might have had eventually to escort her to things like her son's Coronation, or to sons' Royal weddings and grandchildren's christenings, why would he have disliked that? It's not as if he would be playing any part in the ceremonies. Diana didn't take on anything like State dinners after her separation or any royal duties of a ceremonial nature, so James would have been free as a bird as her husband.
Anyway, Diana wouldn't have married James Hewitt, even if he had remained loyal. She grew bored with him after a couple of years, and his lack of finances would have been a serious problem. She needed a spouse who was wealthy himself and wouldn't be a drain on her.

Quote from: Curryong on August 23, 2020, 11:55:30 PM
Why on earth would marrying an Earl's daughter mean that James would have taken on 'the duties, responsibilities, and events of the nobility'? There have been several commoners who have married the daughters of Earls who have just carried on with their ordinary lives and careers as normal, as have their wives.
If you mean that he might have had eventually to escort her to things like her son's Coronation, or to sons' Royal weddings and grandchildren's christenings, why would he have disliked that? It's not as if he would be playing any part in the ceremonies. Diana didn't take on anything like State dinners after her separation or any royal duties of a ceremonial nature, so James would have been free as a bird as her husband.
Anyway, Diana wouldn't have married James Hewitt, even if he had remained loyal. She grew bored with him after a couple of years, and his lack of finances would have been a serious problem. She needed a spouse who was wealthy himself and wouldn't be a drain on her.

I dont know if she grew bored with him... I think she realised that he wasn't loyal to her, as time passed and she grew wary of him.
She broke the relationship once because he insisted on going to Germany to train in relation to his army career and I think she was annoyed that he had put his job ahead of her.. and then when they got back together at the time of the Gulf war, he had begun to toy with the idea of making money out of their affair and she grew afraid that he would (as he did) publicize the affair and possibly ruin her reputation with the public..

Most nobles marry commoners. It?s 2020, not 1920.

Charles Spencer has been married three times and none of his wives are aristocratic. 

Diana wasn't "noble" anyway.. in the UK only the holider of the peerage has noble status.. and her sisters married men with no titles...

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on August 24, 2020, 08:10:09 PM
Most nobles marry commoners. It?s 2020, not 1920.

Charles Spencer has been married three times and none of his wives are aristocratic.

And unless a peer is very grounded in the English countryside and his estates, there aren't any particular duties.

Nicholas Soames, a friend pf Prince Charles, told the Duke of Edinburgh's private secretary, Lord Rupert Nevill, what he thought about Charles' proposed engagement to Lady Diana. Nicholas thought the situation was 'a mismatch'.   
Do you think Nicholas was correct in his observation?

Well, obviously Fattie Soames (groveller extraordinaire ) was correct. It was a mismatch. Other friends tried to talk Charles out of proposing as well, but by then he was determined to go through with it. It's been observed, with Charles and many other royals, that advice is only taken onboard when it coincides with their own views at the time, and Charles was by then gloomily believing that for the nation (actually the media) his father and everybody else he had to marry even though he didn't love Diana, rather than grow a spine.

well who DOES take advice that goes against their own feelings?  People ask for advice but its rare that they actually are willing to take it.  What they hope for is ofr someone to say something that will coincide with their own views...

Quote from: Amabel2 on January 25, 2021, 01:10:36 PM
well who DOES take advice that goes against their own feelings?  People ask for advice but its rare that they actually are willing to take it.  What they hope for is ofr someone to say something that will coincide with their own views...

Yes that's true, but every now and again you get people who say 'Thank God I took ------'s advice and didn't buy into that business!' or 'I didn't really want to take notice of 'parents/friends etc's warnings about ----- but I'm so glad I did as I might have ended up married to him/her!'

People generally respect the advice of people they respect and admire, people who they believe have good judgement and common sense, even if in the end they don't follow their advice.

Personally I think it was a great shame that the Queen did her usual ostriching trick and refused to give her advice to Charles on his proposed marriage when he asked her for it.

If they had behaved like most parents and children, (even adult children), they could then have both sat down for a heart to heart and thrashed out the pros and cons in an honest and frank way. Perhaps if they had then Charles might have come to another decision. As it was he felt isolated, and compelled to marry.

If Queen Elizabeth II had spoken up, she might have inquired if Lady Diana had the right qualities to be Princess of Wales and eventually a future Queen Consort.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on January 25, 2021, 11:06:45 PM
If Queen Elizabeth II had spoken up, she might have inquired if Lady Diana had the right qualities to be Princess of Wales and eventually a future Queen Consort.

I don't think she would have doubted that so much (after all Diana had behaved very well during the probationary period when dating Charles and the Di fever reached a whole new level AFTER the wedding) as whether the couple would mesh together sufficiently privately and whether Charles truly loved this girl or whether he felt pressured by the media. Given what Margaret said at the time of the engagement I think all the senior royals were very much aware that Camilla PB was still in the picture. Doubts were expressed by Margaret as to whether she would be prepared to let go.

There was a considerable age gap, and Charles's more solitary pursuits and hobbies may have given her pause. It's often forgotten that Charles enjoys a lot of reading, a lot of walking on his own in the Scottish Highlands, he has a great love of gardening as well, none of which attracted Diana much and which, to be honest, the Queen and Prince Philip weren't particularly in tune with, either.

However, the big elephant in the room was Camilla PB and I don't feel the Queen would have been comfortable questioning what Charles felt about her, or how that might affect his marriage. I don't think the BRF do emotions very well and so what should have been put out there in a frank exchange just wouldn't have been with what we know about the rather repressed Elizabeth II and her not so close relationship with her son at the time. So a huge opportunity was missed to avoid future misery IMO, because that talk never happened.

How many of the Mountbattens were opposed to Prince Charles marrying Lady Diana?

What had the Mountbattens to say to anything?

Lord Mountbatten was of course dead (assassinated) by the time Charles was thinking of marrying Diana.

The only thing I can remember is a much later interview with Earl M's daughters, where they seemed to believe that Diana was a bit casual. They appeared shocked by the fact that when they asked about the ring Diana said 'Oh it's in my handbag. Go and get it Charles!' and he obediently trotted off to get her bag.

Perhaps they felt that the POW, whom they'd known since babyhood, was being treated like a footman! On the other hand, if they hadn't met his fiancee before the engagement, (and it appears they hadn't), they don't seem to have had any input into the selection!

Quote from: Curryong on January 27, 2021, 11:44:23 AM
Lord Mountbatten was of course dead (assassinated) by the time Charles was thinking of marrying Diana.

The only thing I can remember is a much later interview with Earl M's daughters, where they seemed to believe that Diana was a bit casual. They appeared shocked by the fact that when they asked about the ring Diana said 'Oh it's in my handbag. Go and get it Charles!' and he obediently trotted off to get her bag.

Perhaps they felt that the POW, whom they'd known since babyhood, was being treated like a footman! On the other hand, if they hadn't met his fiancee before the engagement, (and it appears they hadn't), they don't seem to have had any input into the selection!

I can't see why they would.  Mountbatten was of course close to Charles and a natural intriguer so he might well have been consulted had he been alive.. but unless C was very friendly with the daughters I cant see why they would have any input. True one of the daughters I think was a bit less than charmed by Diana.. and thought probably that she was getting above herself by ordering her fiance around like that... but I think that most of the RF liked Diana at first but became uneasy about her within a year or so.

The title of this thread is "A Mismatch".  And of course, it was a mismatch.  However, in light of what we now know of her baggage from childhood and her personal issues, it's hard to think she would have been happy with anyone long term.   

Quote from: Princess Cassandra on April 06, 2021, 10:22:54 PM
The title of this thread is "A Mismatch".  And of course, it was a mismatch.  However, in light of what we now know of her baggage from childhood and her personal issues, it's hard to think she would have been happy with anyone long term.

Possbily.  the trouble was that Diana DID fit in very well with royal life in public. She was very good at engagements, at attracting people, at charity work..and she was pretty and beautifully dressed.. and poeple DID like her.  But she didn't fit in with the RF in Private, particularly with her husband. But at the beginning, when she dated Charles I think that she was so charming, so pretty, willing to please and everyone in the RF who met her thougth she was a lovely girl and likley to be an asset to the RF. I think that C's friends, who perhaps saw a bit more of her during the courtship, did perhaps get signals that she was very immature and that perhaps she wasn't as likley to fit in as she seemed at first... but Charles was I think genuinley attracted to her and had made up his mind that even though he did have doubts, he was going to marry her...

If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat, would he have agreed to live where she wanted to live?

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on April 07, 2021, 09:21:01 PM
If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat, would he have agreed to live where she wanted to live?

Since we dont know where she might have wanted to live, how can anyone answer that question?

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on April 07, 2021, 09:21:01 PM
If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat, would he have agreed to live where she wanted to live?

If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat who was the main title holder ie Duke, Earl, Marquess I believe that she'd realize that they'd need to live at the family's estate if they still possessed one. She saw the same happen with her father when he became the Earl Spencer and they  moved to Althorp. If it was a younger brother of then, they'd have more flexibility and would likely live reasonably close to his or their place of employment.

Quote from: TLLK on April 08, 2021, 01:55:53 PM
If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat who was the main title holder ie Duke, Earl, Marquess I believe that she'd realize that they'd need to live at the family's estate if they still possessed one.

HOneslty it is so unlikely that Diana would have gotten remarried to an English aristocrat that its impossible to imagine. Much more likely she'd marry a millionaire businessman, probably a foreign one. Di wasnt goig to bury herself in the countryside again

@Amabel2 -Actually I was thinking along the lines of Diana marrying an aristocrat in her twenties instead of the PoW. However it is possible that @LouisFerdinand  was thinking of a second marriage to a UK aristocrat.

Quote from: TLLK on April 08, 2021, 05:57:55 PM
@Amabel2 -Actually I was thinking along the lines of Diana marrying an aristocrat in her twenties instead of the PoW. However it is possible that @LouisFerdinand  was thinking of a second marriage to a UK aristocrat.

I assumed it was meaning a second marriage.. but if it was a first marriage.. I don't think anyone knows where Diana would have liked to live back then. I tend to think that even had she married someone she dated at 19 or so, she'd prefer London to the country.. and her boyfriends dont seem to have been among the peerage....

Quote from: Amabel2 on April 08, 2021, 06:27:58 PM
I assumed it was meaning a second marriage.. but if it was a first marriage.. I don't think anyone knows where Diana would have liked to live back then. I tend to think that even had she married someone she dated at 19 or so, she'd prefer London to the country.. and her boyfriends dont seem to have been among the peerage....

If it comes to that, I dont think anyone could say where Diana would have wanted to live, after her divorce.  She talked about getting away from England... and I dont think she dated anyone English after Oliver Hoare..but its not all that clear had she found a second husband, where she saw herself settling with him.

Quote from: TLLK on April 08, 2021, 05:57:55 PM
@Amabel2 -Actually I was thinking along the lines of Diana marrying an aristocrat in her twenties instead of the PoW. However it is possible that @LouisFerdinand  was thinking of a second marriage to a UK aristocrat.

@TLLK, When I referred to her as Lady Diana, I was referring to a first marriage. Thus she would not have wed Prince Charles.

I dont think that she dated anyone seriously back then other than charles.  She had boyfriends but none of them were anywhere near marraige proposals, and none of them were titled or aristocrats with large estates.  I dont think she even dated any gentlemen farmers....

The place (and only place, please) to post articles and discuss the history of the Wales.  Have fun and please be respectful of others opinions.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on April 07, 2021, 09:21:01 PM
If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat, would he have agreed to live where she wanted to live?

Don?t think she would have married anyone in that circle and away from England. Who knows. She probably would?ve been happy being a Doctor?s wife, continue her work and raise more kids.   :shrug:  :orchid:

I dont really think she was cut out for a doctors wife.  She was a Princess, used to a very different sort of life.  And if she married Khan, he would have wanted to go nad live in Pakinstan and he said that he thought it was one of the few places they could avoid the press.  But Diana after visits to Pak told him it wasn't suitable....

Speaking about legal documents, which are tied to passport (if you don't have a passport) an Identification Card (ID)

Here is Diana's passport.

(https://theroyalpost.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/img_1685.jpg)

As an example of an actual (British) spouse to the BRF, The Royal House

Name of Bearer: Her Royal Highness Catherine Elizabeth The Duchess of Cambridge
Nee: Catherine Elizabeth Middleton
National Status: Princess of the Royal House

How is that Di's passport?  It is the passport of Prince charles, surely

The 2 images I posted are their passports.  Here as you can see is Diana's passport (illegally photographed at an Asian tour immigration desk - because of the entry stamp - they entry stamp I am not posting, not worth it) The immigration officer just used one closed passport to hold the other passport open to take the picture.  Same thing with the image of Charles detailed passport, they used DIana's closed passport to hold Charles data open to take the picture. They each have a different Passport ID number.

In the Lilibet thread is Charles passport, the image is too large, couldn't make it small like Diana's, but at the bottom of Charles passport, use the mouse moving to the right side and you will see his details.

It will now be 40 years that Diana and Charles married.       

Fascinating facts about Prince Charles and Princess Diana's wedding.   
Fascinating facts about Prince Charles and Princess Diana?s wedding #Shorts | Royal Family - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bGxTzWHjzE)

I was baby at 3 month old I didn?t watch Prince Charles and late Diana,Princess of Wales?s wedding in July 29,1981 I was newborn baby my mom watch royal wedding what old you were when Prince Charles and late Diana,Princess of Wales?s wedding television or watch outside crowds

The codename given for Diana to keep her wedding gown under wraps | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9836481/The-codename-given-Diana-wedding-gown-wraps.html)

Prince Charles and Lady Diana's bridesmaids: Where are they now? | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9811935/Charles-Dianas-bridesmaids-now.html)

IAN GALLAGHER speaks to Elizabeth Emanuel about Prince Charles and Lady Diana's wedding | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9821677/IAN-GALLAGHER-speaks-Elizabeth-Emanuel-Royal-ceremony-outdazzle-all.html)

Everything you need to know about Princess Diana's wedding gown | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9810989/Everything-need-know-Princess-Dianas-wedding-gown.html)

Princess Diana and Prince Charles' Wedding Cake to Be Auctioned Off | PEOPLE.com (https://people.com/royals/princess-diana-prince-charles-wedding-cake-auction/)

Princess Diana and Prince Charles both made mistakes on their wedding day - details | HELLO! (https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/20210728118434/princess-diana-prince-charles-royal-wedding-vows-mistakes/)

Prince Charles and Princess Diana's wedding day in detail: the slip-ups, the dress, and being in the 600,000-strong crowd | HELLO! (https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/20210729118495/prince-charles-princess-diana-wedding-day-40-years-on/)

Diana and Charles's royal wedding cake slice tipped to fetch eye-watering ?500 at auction | Royal | News | Express.co.uk (https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1468740/princess-diana-prince-charles-wedding-cake-slice-auction-wedding-anniversary-latest)

Prince Charles ordered Red Dragon to be added to wedding cake 'of the century' | Royal | News | Express.co.uk (https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1468539/prince-charles-ordered-red-dragon-added-wedding-cake-princess-diana-royal-family-news-ont)

Prince Charles' secret message to Princess Diana before wedding revealed: 'Knock 'em dead' | Royal | News | Express.co.uk (https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1469397/prince-charles-message-princess-diana-wedding-anniversary-40-years-royal-family-news)

Kate Middleton and Prince William's nods to Charles and Diana's wedding on their big day - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kate-middleton-prince-williams-nods-24636514)

Princess Diana's bridesmaids now - Queen's 'adored' niece and one that sold her dress - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/princess-dianas-bridesmaids-now-queens-24633282)

Princess Diana broke with tradition during wedding vows - and was first royal to do so - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/princess-diana-broke-tradition-during-24634623)

Princess Diana had a hidden message on the shoes she wore on her wedding day - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/princess-diana-hidden-message-shoes-24628701)

Slice of Charles and Diana's wedding cake on sale - and it's still wrapped in clingfilm - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/slice-charles-dianas-wedding-cake-24631708)

Princess Diana and Prince Charles both made mistakes during their wedding vows - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/princess-diana-prince-charles-both-24604455)

Prince Charles and Princess Diana's wedding secrets - private note and shock admission - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-charles-princess-dianas-wedding-24643041)

Story of Princess Diana's wedding dress - record train, backup gown and creator's horror - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/story-princess-dianas-wedding-dress-24630361)

Princess Diana rode around on a bike singing with excitement night before her wedding - Mirror Online (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/princess-diana-rode-around-bike-24637540)

Forty years on: The Wedding Dress of Diana, Princess of Wales ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/the-wedding-dress-of-diana-princess-of-wales-2-144883/)

Royal Wedding Flowers: Diana, Princess of Wales ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/royal-wedding-flowers-diana-princess-of-wales-2-144886/)

Forty years on: the royal fairytale wedding that missed its happy ending ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/royal-wedding-rewind-the-prince-of-wales-and-lady-diana-spencer-144889/)

How Britain partied for the Royal Wedding called a ?Fairytale? ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/features/how-britain-partied-for-the-royal-wedding-called-a-fairytale-163645/)

The tiara worn by Diana on the day she became a princess ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/features/the-tiara-worn-by-diana-on-the-day-she-became-a-princess-163649/)

Princess Diana?s wedding gown secrets revealed, 40 years later (https://www.today.com/style/princess-diana-s-wedding-gown-secrets-revealed-40-years-later-t224643)

In Diana Princess of Wales Julia Delano wrote: Lady Diana Spencer married her prince and became a genuine twentieth-century Fairytale Princess.  :Jen: :Jen: :Jen: :Jen:

In Diana Princess of Wales Julia Delano wrote: It was a dream of a wedding dress.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on July 30, 2021, 11:47:43 PM
In Diana Princess of Wales Julia Delano wrote: It was a dream of a wedding dress.

It was a dream of a wedding dress for a 1980s 19 year old. Whether it was a dream of a dress for all time on classic lines is debatable.

It was supposedly copied from a portrait at Althorp of an 18th century Spencer ancestress. I do have a fondness for it as I believe its bulk and the very long train was able to ?fill up? the vastness of St Paul?s. It also encapsulated what was regarded as the fairytale magic of the wedding day, which was felt by virtually everyone who witnessed it.

However it would be impossible for most people today to look at that dress and not think ?1980s personified?. It is a part of history nonetheless and will always bring back memories of the bride of 20 as Diana was then.

Quote from: Curryong on July 31, 2021, 12:09:34 AM
It was a dream of a wedding dress for a 1980s 19 year old. Whether it was a dream of a dress for all time on classic lines is debatable.

It was supposedly copied from a portrait at Althorp of an 18th century Spencer ancestress. I do have a fondness for it as I believe its bulk and the very long train was able to ?fill up? the vastness of St Paul?s. It also encapsulated what was regarded as the fairytale magic of the wedding day, which was felt by virtually everyone who witnessed it.

However it would be impossible for most people today to look at that dress and not think ?1980s personified?. It is a part of history nonetheless and will always bring back memories of the bride of 20 as Diana was then.

Also, very few women could have carried that dress off. It suited her tall slim figure as much as it was a dress for the times. She looked like she belonged in a fairy tale!

Quote from: Princess Cassandra on August 01, 2021, 05:50:05 PM
Also, very few women could have carried that dress off. It suited her tall slim figure as much as it was a dress for the times. She looked like she belonged in a fairy tale!

@Princess Cassandra, That is an excellent observation. Also, there were a lot of steps of the cathedral for her and her father to ascend.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on August 01, 2021, 10:50:44 PM
   
@Princess Cassandra, That is an excellent observation. Also, there were a lot of steps of the cathedral for her and her father to ascend.

Yes, didn't it look gorgeous from a distance.

Quote from: Princess Cassandra on August 04, 2021, 04:16:39 PM
Yes, didn't it look gorgeous from a distance.

Yes, The view was splendid from a distance. Diana carried herself very well.

Princess Diana was never the same after divorcing Prince Charles.   
Princess Diana Was Never The Same After Divorcing Prince Charles - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNja8Wkhgs)

Since this thread is now at 17 pages, it's time to close it. For future discussion about the Wales' engagement, marriage, separation and divorce please continue the conversation in that thread.

Just a reminder that this is now the only dedicated thread to discuss the engagement, marriage, separation and divorce between the Prince of Wales and the late Diana, Princess of Wales. Please do not start new threads related to their married life or Diana's life post-divorce. Thank you.

Consider the source. A former royal protection officer is claiming that the late Diana, Princess of Wales was the first to stray in her marriage to the PoW.

EDEN CONFIDENTIAL: Princess Diana was the first to stray during her marriage Prince Charles | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10240233/EDEN-CONFIDENTIAL-Princess-Diana-stray-marriage-Prince-Charles.html)

QuoteViewers of Netflix hit The Crown are left in no doubt who was to blame for the collapse of Prince Charles and Diana?s marriage: he?s shown sneaking off to renew his love affair with Camilla Parker Bowles while the Princess is left crying at the Palace.

Now, however, one of the couple?s former royal protection officers has come forward to present a startlingly different version of events.

Allan Peters claims Charles did not start seeing Camilla romantically again (they had first met in their early 20s) until after he discovered Diana had been having a fling with fellow protection officer Barry Mannakee.

And Peters was the one who informed Charles of his wife?s affair.

💣

This debate about who cheated first in the Charles/Diana marriage has been going on for about thirty years to my knowledge! Certainly I have no doubts myself that Diana was treating Mannakee as a confidante while her marriage was first going pearshaped while he probably responded sympathetically to an increasingly unhappy and an attractive young woman.

After all she wasn?t the first and no doubt won?t be the last royal woman  to become close to a RPO while experiencing a miserable marriage. Princess Anne anyone? Which is why both men were officially moved out of their orbits by superior officers.

However, Diana actually sleeping with Mannakee? I have my doubts,  and no solid evidence of adultery between the couple has come out in the decades since including Peters? statements Eden has produced. Plus Peters (and Eden) seem to have forgotten the opportunities for emotional dalliance Charles had with his ex mistress Camilla during hunt meets with the Belvoir right from the first years of his marriage.

What did Pres Carter once say about marital fidelity, something about committing emotional adultery in his heart, I believe?

I think you'll find that it was a higher authority than Pres Carter who said that

Quote from: Amabel2 on November 25, 2021, 03:57:27 PM
I think you'll find that it was a higher authority than Pres Carter who said that

It was Carter who spoke about his own experience in a Playboy interview while talking about temptation and his religious faith.

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1859513_1859526_1859518,00.html

it was Jesus who said it.....

Yes. Carter quoted the bible and spoke about his own experiences with the ?lust in (my) heart? quote, when he spoke about his religious faith in a Playboy interview. That?s what I originally was alluding to.

sorry it sounded like you meant that it was Carter's own words about lusting after women...

Yes, I expressed myself really badly. I?ve read it since and I should have said ?quoted? and been clearer.

What Prince Charles and Princess Diana's wedding day was really like   
What Prince Charles And Diana's Wedding Day Was Really Like - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhHIQ0n_Ja4)

Is it true photographers never snapped the courting couple together until Prince Charles and Lady Diana's engagement became public?

Lady Diana nearly walked down the aisle without her wedding bouquet. As Diana exited the Glass Coach on the arm of her father she did not have her bouquet. Was she concentrating on how she would exit gracefully? She left her flowers in the coach. However, when she walked down the aisle she had the bouquet.   
 

Obviously she was not going to try exiting the coach in a very big dress, and holding her flowers

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on February 18, 2022, 08:34:33 PM
Lady Diana nearly walked down the aisle without her wedding bouquet. As Diana exited the Glass Coach on the arm of her father she did not have her bouquet. Was she concentrating on how she would exit gracefully? She left her flowers in the coach. However, when she walked down the aisle she had the bouquet.   
 

:thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou:

The Glass Coach could barely contain Lady Diana, her dress and Earl Spencer and required both to step down its small folding steps to the pavement. They were both going to need the assistance of the waiting grooms to exit the coach, so the massive floral bouquet would have been a hindrance.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on July 28, 2022, 10:28:05 PM

Rare photos from Princess Diana and Prince Charles' wedding   
70 Rare Photos From Princess Diana and Prince Charles' Wedding (http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/celebs/29438393/princess-diana-rare-wedding-photos)
   
How rare is a picture of the Engagement of Lady Diana and Prince Charles?

Not very rare unless it's a personal photo of the Windsor or Spencer families that was never released to the public in 1981.

Luxury ?2.2million west London flat goes up for sale in same block where Princess Diana lived | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11145259/Luxury-2-2million-west-London-flat-goes-sale-block-Princess-Diana-lived.html)

Princess Diana's ?2million bachelorette pad before marrying Prince Charles ? inside | HELLO! (https://www.hellomagazine.com/homes/20210621115564/princess-diana-flat-london-coleherne-court-inside-photos/)
Before engaged to Prince Charles back in 1979 to 1981

King Charles' staff conducted 'smear campaigns' about Princess Diana, ex-private secretary claims | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11435317/King-Charles-staff-conducted-smear-campaigns-Princess-Diana-former-press-secretary-claims.html)

?Patrick Jephson, who was the late royal's private secretary from 1988 to 1996, claimed in the new podcast The Scandal Mongers, hosted by royal authors Phil Craig and Andrew Lownie, that sources close to the King orchestrated a 'systematic' smear campaign against his estranged wife, which made her life 'hell.'

He added that he was frustrated by the fact it has now become 'accepted' that Diana struggled mentally, and said she in fact showcased 'extraordinary strength' under the pressure of royal life and media attention.

Meanwhile, Phil Craig, who wrote Diana: Story of a Princess, said that these briefings have had a lasting impact on the legacy of the King's first wife, and added they were the 'nastiest' aspect of the War of the Wales.?

Perhaps Charles could start by apologising for the above, then. And also for flying into a temper, accusing his then Private Sec of persuading him into the disastrous interview with Jonathon Dimbleby in which he admitted adultery and outed Camilla as his ?friend? ie mistress. Everybody on his staff knew that he had wanted to do the interview with Dimbleby and there had been no persuasion, but the unfortunate PS had to resign his position anyway as Charles refused to take responsibility for his own decision.

Maybe Harry learned a thing or two from Daddy about stabbing nearest and dearest, and staff in the back. Charles has never apologised for his actions, either to the PS or to his ex wife for anything. So perhaps apologies could begin there. And to his sons for letting them swing in the breeze on various occasions while his spin doctor Bolland planted stories in the media to make Camilla look good.

As you say, none of us are perfect. And that certainly includes Charles!

Patrick Jephsn is mighty fond of Diana now isn't he?  How does anyone know what CHarles has said in private

Quote from: Amabel2 on December 14, 2022, 12:25:21 PM
Patrick Jephsn is mighty fond of Diana now isn't he?  How does anyone know what CHarles has said in private

We don?t know what Charles has said in private, just like we don?t know what Harry has said to his father in recent phone calls, Skype, communications. However, Charles has never apologised publicly for any mistakes or blunders made by himself. Not for shielding pedophile Father Ball, not for being a great friend of Hammer, who was a crook but still gave to his causes so that made it all OK I suppose, nor of Van der Post, whom he called his spiritual adviser, but who was, to say the least, a libertine. Nor of Saville.

Nor has he ever claimed responsibility for anything done to his first wife by his staff and friends, nor for allowing Bolland to plant stories in the media that embarrassed and humiliated his sons and angered other royals while trying to rehabilitate Camilla. It?s all in the bios I have of Charles, including the one written by the oh so accurate Tom Bowers.

Her actions speak louder than any Patrick. TOO many clumsy and IMPULSIVE decisions that doesn't need fans or detractors. Straight from the horses mouth is a two edge sword, one of the edges is mortal.

Now if Tom is a hacket, he must be an extraordinaire one, the man keeps on winning. A lawyer is a lawyer is a lawyer, shark!

Princess Diana's letters reveals her misery over 'desperate and ugly' divorce from Prince Charles | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11699253/Princess-Dianas-letters-reveals-misery-desperate-ugly-divorce-Prince-Charles.html)

Archive of Princess Diana's personal letters reveals her misery over 'desperate and ugly' divorce from Prince Charles - as they go under the hammer for an estimated ?90,000 with proceeds going to charity
Diana sought support from friends during her public split from Prince Charles
The 32 revealing letters are up for auction and are expected to sell for ?90,000.


In one revealing letter from April 28, 1996, Diana cancelled a trip to the opera due to the strain of her separation.

She wrote: 'I am having a very difficult time and pressure is serious and coming from all sides.

'It's too difficult sometimes to keep one's head up and today I am on my knees and just longing for this divorce to go through as the possible cost is tremendous.'

Her handwriting, normally open and flowing, deteriorates towards the end of the letter, apparently from where she was struggling as she wrote.

14 Fun Facts About Princess Diana's Wedding | History | Smithsonian Magazine (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/14-fun-facts-about-princess-dianas-wedding-180976284) mentioned:   
In February 1981 Charles proposed to Diana after a whirlwind courtship.   

Do you consider Diana's courtship a whirlwind courtship?

Yes and that led to the couple not knowing enough about each other to make a sound decision to marry.

Quote from: TLLK on August 11, 2023, 12:20:48 PM
Queen Camilla takes military patronage held for decades by Queen Elizabeth II ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/queen-camilla-takes-faith-based-military-patronage-held-for-decades-by-queen-elizabeth-ii-192164/)

So Queen Camilla will be Patron of the Royal Army Chaplains? Dept which provides pastoral care and moral guidance to members of the Armed Forces. What an absolute farce! As both she and the King were well known adulterers themselves, at least partly responsible for destroying their own and each others? first marriages, I sure hope neither of them will be providing moral guidance to any of the Army Chaplains. Such as perhaps ?Thou Shalt not Commit Adultery.??

Thanks to King Henry VIII, during the reformation and breaking with the Catholic Church. 

Quote from: wannable on August 11, 2023, 12:53:29 PM
Thanks to King Henry VIII, during the reformation and breaking with the Catholic Church.

Henry VIII was quite a few centuries ago. They didn?t have army chaplains in his day to dispense moral advice to,  and his breaking with the Roman Catholic Church had nothing whatsoever to do with both Charles and Camilla committing adultery throughout most of the 1980s and into the 1990s.

He wanted a divorce, morality starts there centuries ago. Just saying.

Quote from: wannable on August 11, 2023, 01:11:44 PM
He wanted a divorce, morality starts there centuries ago. Just saying.

I hardly think that Charles bedded another man?s wife before during and after his marriage to Diana by thinking ?Well it?s fine! King Henry gave me permission in the 16th century?. His mother as Head of the Church of England kept her marital vows all her adult life. Perhaps he ought to have looked nearer to home than a Tudor king.

The morals have changed to then and progressing of what was/is acceptable, we are back to the dark ages with Wokeism now for example.

Anyway, for what it's worth, my initial comment has to do with exactly an answer to your original comment of Queen Camilla vs Queen Elizabeth II honorary position based on morality. The Monarchy, the COE, the acceptance of what and how it started, which means they are okay with what KHVIII did.

Quote from: wannable on August 11, 2023, 01:29:14 PM
The morals have changed to then and progressing of what was/is acceptable, we are back to the dark ages with Wokeism now for example.

Anyway, for what it's worth, my initial comment has to do with exactly an answer to your original comment of Queen Camilla vs Queen Elizabeth II honorary position based on morality. The Monarchy, the COE, the acceptance of what and how it started, which means they are okay with what KHVIII did.

I doubt very much that Queen Elizabeth II, or her father, mother or grandparents for that matter, let alone Victoria or Albert or George III or many other monarchs, were okay with what Henry VIII did? at all. I think they probably thought, if they thought about it much at all, was that Henry was a tyrant and did what he wanted, having not been able to persuade the Pope to grant him a divorce after years of trying. Nobody can change history.

However the C of E certainly doesn?t sanction divorce and hasn?t since Henry?s time. And, I might point out, that the reason Charles and Camilla weren?t married in a Church but had to use Windsor Guildhall for their ceremony, was specifically due to the fact that they had both committed adultery and both had interfered in each other?s marriage. In fact there was a question as to whether the Archbishop of Canterbury would sanction their marriage.

My best advice is to write a letter to BP with the displeasure

Quote from: wannable on August 12, 2023, 12:07:29 AM
My best advice is to write a letter to BP with the displeasure

I don?t need to. Within a few years Australia will be a republic as will other realms. Then we will be rid of them. People here aren?t bothered about Charles or Camilla in any way, shape or form, and haven?t been for a very long time.

Now we go to the commonwealth thread  :wink:

Why can't some people let the past go for heaven's sake, time change just like fashions change as does the style of our homes and cars, everything changes with time....even religions.  I like some and really dislike others yet I have learned to deal and accept certain things.

If people want to get rid of Charles and Camilla then just ignore them, don't comment or read about them anymore.....that will get rid of them.  We all can't live our lives looking at ourselves from someone's else point of view.

As for the admirable POW Charles, what lessons were to be learned from his behaviour as heir that he imparted to his children? To be such a workaholic that you allowed others like Mark Dyer and Tiggy to look after your children and regard them as substitutes for you after your ex wife died?

To be so spineless that you were prepared to marry a teenager you didn?t love, as you couldn?t have the married woman you?d been having an affair with for years? To cheat on your wife with another man?s wife for years?  To introduce them to your children as your second wife after your grandmother?s death as you were to afraid to do it before? All great life lessons I?m sure! Just not the ones you?d wish to impart if you had a sense of honour and decency..

And those lessons haven?t been lost on his sons. William has one tenth of the patronages his father has, so no workaholic there. And Harry can?t be accused of not being a devoted husband and father. No cheating rumours.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on September 28, 2023, 10:50:47 PM

Everything that went wrong at Charles and Diana's wedding   
In the past it has been declared how wrinkled Lady Diana's wedding dress was.   
In this video it is mentioned that if her bridal gown could have been brushed for ten minutes,   
several of the wrinkles would have not been there.   
Everything That Went Wrong At Charles & Diana's Wedding - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYU8qKqm8eA)

I often think it was forgotten at the time how young and very inexperienced the Emanuels were. They obviously weren?t used to dealing with yards and yards of natural materials like pure silk. And neither the young bride nor themselves had thought through how cramped Diana was going to be travelling to the Abbey in the family coach with her father, who was not a small man by any means.

Nevertheless, that wedding, watched by millions around the globe, was filled with many wonderful, fascinating and heartwarming moments. People who saw it have remembered it and will for the rest of their lives. It really was THE Royal marriage of the second half of the 20th century. Nothing else came up to it. And Diana was an absolutely beautiful bride! In the wider scheme of things a dress that wrinkled for a few minutes is nothing.

Quote from: Curryong on September 29, 2023, 12:36:28 AM
I often think it was forgotten at the time how young and very inexperienced the Emanuels were. They obviously weren?t used to dealing with yards and yards of natural materials like pure silk. And neither the young bride nor themselves had thought through how cramped Diana was going to be travelling to the Abbey in the family coach with her father, who was not a small man by any means.

Nevertheless, that wedding, watched by millions around the globe, was filled with many wonderful, fascinating and heartwarming moments. People who saw it have remembered it and will for the rest of their lives. It really was THE Royal marriage of the second half of the 20th century. Nothing else came up to it. And Diana was an absolutely beautiful bride! In the wider scheme of things a dress that wrinkled for a few minutes is nothing.

I agree @Curryong. The couple were in their late twenties and had established themselves as up and coming designers. However neither had experience with anything on this scale. There  are only a small handful of designers who will be selected to create a royal wedding gown for the bride of a future monarch. These are gowns that will be scrutinized for decades after the ceremony.

When you consider that both Earl Spencer and Lady Diana were  both taller than most people, I cannot comprehend how they managed that rather long journey from Clarence House to St. Paul's in the confines of the Glass Coach.

Quote from: Curryong on August 12, 2023, 12:24:25 AMI don?t need to. Within a few years Australia will be a republic as will other realms. Then we will be rid of them. People here aren?t bothered about Charles or Camilla in any way, shape or form, and haven?t been for a very long time.

so why go on about them .

Quote from: Amabel2 on March 23, 2024, 03:42:52 PMso why go on about them .

I don't 'go on' about them. You have proved that point by commenting on something from August 2023, seven months ago (and a post that was probably written at the time in the context of Charles and the Commonwealth.)I haven't written about King Charles, Camilla, the Commonwealth, or anything like the post you plucked out from August 2023 for months. In fact, like many other people who used to post regularly on RI, I rarely come here any more. Thanks for reminding me why!