Prince Harry: No royal wants to be king or queen

[royalanthropologist]

I know republicanism has some wonderfully logical ideas as to why monarchy is an absurdity but the thing is I find republicans rather dreary. You get these suggestions of opening up Buckingham Palace to refugees and think...oh God no. Not another Cromwell. The idea of Cherie Blair prancing about first lady just does not cut it. I know monarchy is an anachronism but it is far more interesting than the worthy causes of republicanism.

[tiaras]

We should take into consideration the number of people that are indifferent and/or don't really want to rock the boat and are worried about their immediate future. The way the public thinks of the queen they do not think of the next in line in that way.
So wait till it's charles or william in charge and again they could have a problem with shouldering the blame for economic problems in the country coming post brexit Britain.

You get these suggestions of opening up Buckingham Palace to refugees and think...oh God no.

:lol: :happycry: never heard of that one.

[sara8150]

Prince Harry: I wanted out of royal family but stayed to do good
Prince Harry: I wanted out of royal family but stayed to do good | UK news | The Guardian
Double post auto-merged: June 25, 2017, 08:46:56 PM

Prince Harry: I wanted out of the Royal Family
Prince Harry: I wanted out of the Royal Family

[TLLK]

I'm not sure if so much as the daunting prospect of becoming sovereign or the fact that to become sovereign one has to lose their parent to take the job.

IMO it is a combination of the two because even those monarchs/heirs in the NL and Luxembourg which have had a tradition of voluntary abdication have likely had their misgivings. I do know that Willem-Alexander had his own periods of doubt/rebellion during his teens/twenties before he settled into his role as Prince of Orange. Apparently that was part of the reason when he was sent away to boarding school in Wales, rather than continuing his education in the Netherlands.

CP Victoria has made her own thoughts known regarding the time when she will succeed her father as Sweden's monarch because if tradition is followed, it will be on his deathbed.

As I recall W-A
s late brother Friso made a somewhat similar statement to Margaret's when he and his elder brother were children.

[amabel]

I know republicanism has some wonderfully logical ideas as to why monarchy is an absurdity but the thing is I find republicans rather dreary. You get these suggestions of opening up Buckingham Palace to refugees and think...oh God no. Not another Cromwell. The idea of Cherie Blair prancing about first lady just does not cut it. I know monarchy is an anachronism but it is far more interesting than the worthy causes of republicanism.

well maybe it is more "interesting".  that does not necessarily make it better. why not open up some of Buck Palace to refugees or people made homeless? it isn't such a terrible idea.

Constitutional monarchy can work very well, and most monarchies In Europe have less social and economic differences than many republics... including the US.  However, it is a form of govt that will always need fine tuning, to stay abreast of the times while preserving tradtion.
However I think if it ends, it wil be either through some major scandal or traumatic event OR possibly because of a lack of interest by the current monarch.. 
I hope it will go on, but I have my doubts about Wil and Harry because I think that it needs dutiful people in the job, and neither of them is as dutiful as Charles..


Double post auto-merged: June 26, 2017, 04:35:30 AM

Look at France they've got a strong national identity the British simply don't have.  The class system depreciates social mobility thus destroying quality of life and the ability to dream of a

the british don't have a strong national identity????

[Curryong]

The British have a very strong sense of national identity. There's enormous pride in the history traditions and customs of Britain, almost to the point of jingoism sometimes. There's pride in the sense of independence living on islands gives. In various polls things like the BRF, the quality programmes of the BBC, the castles, pubs, countryside, Shakespeare and other major literary figures, the fact that England has never been invaded for a thousand years, not even in two major wars, are all evoked as expressions of national pride, and should be.

[amabel]

The British have a very strong sense of national identity. There's enormous pride in the history traditions and customs of Britain, almost to the point of jingoism sometimes. There's pride in the sense of independence living on islands gives. In various polls things like the BRF, the quality programmes of the BBC, the castles, pubs,

well I wont mention the War!!

[Curryong]

The Easter 1916 rebellion in Dublin, the one in 1922, or the John Cleese one?  :P
Actually I remember a TV play in which the actor who played Captain Mainwaring in Dads Army (can't remember his name now,) played an Englishman who gets stuck in a ski lift in Switzerland with a couple of German fellow tourists in the 1970s. It was very funny.

[amabel]

what have the 1916 rebellions got to do wit the  British identity? 
I was sort of joking about how the British DO go on about WWII, but it is understandable because it was their finest hour. I can't see that the French have a better sense of national identity than the British...

[Curryong]

Well, the French may very well be proud of their country and to be fair there is a lot to be proud of. The British do go on and on about the second world war, (though Americans do as well) but that certainly wasn't the finest hour for the French, so they don't obviously speak of it!  :D

[amabel]

(I mentoned it once but i think Igot away with it :)

[Curryong]

I didn't. I once mentioned Petain because there was something about him in an English language magazine I was reading in Brittany, and the atmosphere around me (in the hotel) went suddenly icy! We were getting on so well with this other couple, a few drinks, a chat about cheese and our journey so far. It could have been the start of a beautiful if  long-distance friendship!

[TLLK]

^^^LOL @Curryong-My French-American friends who live near near Lille would always give me a heads up saying "Don't bring up the War" whenever we were meeting with their aunts/uncles who had been children/teens during WWII.

[tiaras]

When talking about British identity people do find themselves,  in present day, going back to one thing in particular and that is colonialism. There is more to British history than that but it gets brought up in almost every discussion. People mention this repeatedly, the post colonial guilt is brought up repeatedly and what would the one historic element that be that reminds people of the colonial powers, well I'd say that would be the royal family. They still have some of the stolen artifacts, jewelry and tiaras from fromer colonies. Keeping them in place in the 21st century makes little sense.

[TLLK]

@tiaras-Would you happen to know which of the jewels in the royal collection were stolen?

[tiaras]

The Kohi-noor diamond was stolen.

[FanDianaFancy]

HOW DOES  DIANA  come  up in this subject?
All about C, PC, and PD  again....some of  ..get a  grip  on it pelase!  Find another hobby  other than here.

PH  is ordinary  in his word. His word  of his family, friends, school when he  was  boy, etc. Very ordinary  for him.

PH does not have to worry  about ever  being K  of  his  heirs involved in such a  big role in BRF.

PH could  not last one day,  none of them could, not even  K or Pippa  could  last  one  day  in OUR ordinary  lives  of  job hunting,  carreer goals, interviews,  paying bills, mowing the  lawn, driving  places,  housekeeping  our  hoes,  our shopping  for  groceries and not fun shopping as K does...etc.
YES, K and MM, if  she is  going to  H's wife,  led ordinary  lives  before. K  does not  want ordinary. K  did not marry  ordinary.

Umm, if  he marries  MM,  WE  ALL CAN  AGREE  I THINK, this girl  is  not  interested  in being marry to  ordinary. She  would  embrace that  BRF thingy  of  PH's...the  perks  are  literally  out  of this world.

Sidenote. I  am a  fan of PD, but  LDFS /PD  never lived an  ordinary  day  in her  life...ordinary  worries  abut having to  work  to  pay  bills  for their is no cushion....finding a  house  one can afford,  career goals...plains  for  retirement...etc. I posted this before. If we have to  bring  up PD, can  we  talk abut her  being an extraordinary  woman  trying to  be  in an  ordinary world  and she did that, but yet still,  her  life was never  ordinary.

Camilla,  who  is going to be Queen Camilla  and King Charles both want  to be K and Q.

K wants  to be  Q   day, some  day and you and Pippa want her to  be.

Harry  needed to  not say this, LOL!!  Spoke too much.

[amabel]

I didn't. I once mentioned Petain because there was something about him in an English language magazine I was reading in Brittany, and the atmosphere around me (in the hotel) went suddenly icy! We were getting on so well with this other couple, a few drinks, a chat about cheese and our journey so far. It could have been the start of a beautiful if  long-distance friendship!

you should have heard the icy silence tht happened once when I was up in the North and someone Irish, who should have known better, suggested singing some Orange song, like "The Sash".

[FanDianaFancy]

In response to the off topic  subject  here.....

The  UK of GB  and TC  will always  have  a BRF  and  class system  Having the monarchy  keeps this  whole class system  going. England  is the  epitome of a  class  system.
You cannot have it without  Monarch and then the levels  of the nobility.

It  is what  it  is and is what  it  will be.  It has been for thousands  of years.

Rest  assured, the  BRF, and the  levels of nobility  are not  going anywhere.

To  separate the BRF  's  private  lands, funds,  art works, jewels, and estates would be near  impossible to  do. The  levels of the nobility  are  not  giving that  up.

The  time for that to  have  happened  has long passed.

GB  has  the most  strict, formidable  class  system there is.
The Monarchy  and the levels  of the nobility  will  keep in inpalce and even the people(peasants)  are  satisfied with  it.  Ex.  All the  comments  abut  Carole  Mids  here and  various sites  , TDM  , etc  abut  her being a  social  climber, out  of her palce, etc.  We  Americans  think  she  is   a sef-made woman, a success stry.

WIAT  for it.

I am  not  knocking  the British  class  system. The peasants  here, I mean  Americans ,   are  going nuts  with the Republican party  and crazy  happy  for anyone who is  wealthy. The goal here s for the  American peasants to stay  in their  place and be happy  for  billionaires and multimillionaries  .  Via making sure their  health  care  is  in place  and the tax system favors them....it is crazy. The Liberals  vs the Conservatives  is  crazy.  Trump and party  are hurting the people  who voted  for him  and yet, they still think, well, he  did not mean that  like that. The Liberals  are  crazy  and the DUMMIECRATS  are  just dummies. The Repulsivcans  are  repulsive.

YES, in the USA,  you  can  be  in your class system. Make  your  clubs. If some  clubs, people, places  do not accept, fine.  People  make their own.  Go live  in  a  high end , expensive  gated  community.  No, it  is 25 million  apt  in NYC, but  yours...still....your class system.  Make  your class  system. Rise  up or fall down the scale. Be  rich  and poor  the next day. Be poor one day and rich the next.



Double post auto-merged: June 26, 2017, 10:23:04 PM

Back to Monarchy  and  levels of the nobility, I think  in time, especially when  William becomes K, the  BRF  will, can  decrease  in wealth, people, taxed  funded  ways  for their lifestyle  which will be ok with  him and K and their children and  for it, less  public duties, less traditional  public duties  too and  just a  less public lifestyle.
When W  becomes  K, we  are talking  25 years  from now.

In other words,  the wealth without the worry  and  work

[Curryong]

But Trudie, the British class system has been breaking down for nearly 200 years. Yes, the remnants of it are still around, perhaps a bit too adhered to still, but I certainly would not put it anywhere near to the Indian caste one which has been around far longer and is beginning to be dismantled only in the past few years, for example.

It started to split with the Reform Bill in the early 1830's when the corrupt nature of the electoral system was tackled by the Whigs. As a result, one heck of a lot of new electorates (some in major industrial cities)  came into existence and more importantly, more middleclass people than ever before got the vote and they and their representatives began sitting in Parliamentary seats that had before been only the province of aristocrats and the gentry, and their relatives.

After that huge move the middle classes, moving up up up into the higher ranks of the professions, becoming wealthy through business and trade became very very important in national life. That was exacerbated by a long and lasting rural depression in the countryside in the 1870s. Aristocrats who had largely relied on rents from tenant farmers began to sell their land and in some cases go under. This was the era in which many young Peers began to marry American heiresses in order to save their estates. However, some of them also married Australian governesses and British music hall artistes, and actresses.

Now, this doesn't mean that the middle classes who became wealthy didn't get knighted, join clubs, or receive other titles in the peerage, or send their sons and grandsons to public schools like Eton and Harrow. They did. However, they didn't buy estates that wouldn't be viable, and they themselves weren't the children of aristocrats though they did often move in their circles, including Royal circles.

Taxation after the First World War really finished off many aristo families. The big estates began to be broken up and sold off. Families lived in crumbling big family houses with few servants and very much more simply than they ever did before. That process has gone on and continues today.

The people who are the most prosperous in today's Britain are a mix. Yes, there are wealthy aristos and gentry, who managed to retain some of the family wealth and make careers for themselves, but there are also techno geeks and high flyers on the stock exchange and extremely rich businessmen and women and people in sport, show biz and music who live in a grand manner and have tons of money.

MPs in the Commons are often of working class background and many mingle with the above crowd and with the so-called upper classes, remnants of which hang around still. And what is more important, working class children can join the above if they have enough brains and talent and drive. It is harder for them admittedly in the beginning than for middleclass people's children, but that is the same in the US, isn't it?

[tiaras]

@Curryong exactly so there's no need for them really. They're just delaying it imho. The royals aren't necessary in order to keep anything functional in Britain, they're just the remnants of the past.

Most people in Britain are busy worrying about other matters and now they're worried about immigration, national security, brexit etc,there will come a time when people wonder what that family is still doing there and why and it will likely be around the next coronation.

[Curryong]

^ If the majority of the British people really didn't want a royal family they would be contacting their MPs, signing petitions, joining republican clubs in their millions and making their feelings known. There'd be debates in the Commons about it should that happen. None of it has, the polls have given the BRF consistent favorability ratings in the polls of up in the 70%'s for decades. These polls have been conducted by reliable firms. While that remains, the royal family remains.

[Nightowl]

The British have a very strong sense of national identity. There's enormous pride in the history traditions and customs of Britain, almost to the point of jingoism sometimes. There's pride in the sense of independence living on islands gives. In various polls things like the BRF, the quality programmes of the BBC, the castles, pubs,

well I wont mention the War!!

Please inform me what *country* has NOT had a war within the country or outside the country in this world? Any country and time period will do.

[amabel]

^ If the majority of the British people really didn't want a royal family they would be contacting their MPs, signing petitions, joining republican clubs in their millions and making their feelings known. There'd be debates in the Commons about it should that happen. None of it has, the polls have given the BRF consistent favorability ratings in the polls of up in the 70%'s for decades. These polls have been conducted by reliable firms. While that remains, the royal family remains.

exacty, and if there were republican feelings, which there aren't.. they certainly would not wait for a  coronation to happen.

[tiaras]

Nobody is waiting for anything, people are indifferent because they have other more pressing matters to worry about in the present. When the time comes and I think it's definitely in our lifetimes that the standard of living goes down thanks to problems brought on by brexit which still hasn't unfolded yet. In the next two years brexit will be finalised and then watch the austerity, lack of free movement, difficulty filling positions etc and how a difficult economic situation will affect perceptions of the monarchy.

They will be the fall guys for a lot of things and if this workshy attitude by William and Kate is kept up and Charles's  unpopularity continues there won't be a monarchy after the queen.