Royal Insight Forum

Prince Eddy The King We Never Had - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUOnX2IDBk8&list=PL4-eWFmzsjOaWw5LNlkKXjwxViMAefPBB&index=2)

Quote from: snokitty on February 21, 2015, 10:26:24 PM
Prince Eddy The King We Never Had - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUOnX2IDBk8&list=PL4-eWFmzsjOaWw5LNlkKXjwxViMAefPBB&index=2)

I occasionally lurk at the Alexander Palace Forum, which discusses historical royal figures of the past and present, especially Romanovs. There is a thread on there devoted to Prince Eddy and some of the posters definitely have a crush!

He doesn't do anything for me, but his death sets up one of those fascinating 'What if's ..?' of history. He and Mary Teck would undoubtedly have had children but there would have been no Abdication and no Queen Elizabeth II.

Its not a given that he and Princess Mary of Teck would have had children.  Probably, but not certain.. esp given that Edy had probably managed to contract a few social diseases. He might have given her something more than pregnancy.
TBH I find it hard to imagine his becoming King.  I suppose he would have, but given his extreme stupidity, to the point of learning disability, I think that maybe terr WOULD have been an abdication or something because he was so unsuitable to be king. Cant see why anyone would have a "crush" on him, as he was borderline retarded, odd looking and if he had a kindly enough nature that was all you could say in his favour.
If he had married P May, they might have had children and then - well who knows?  but if they didn't George V would have happened, and his children would be heirs.  We don't know if he would have had a son like the Duke of Windsor, with another wife...

Yes, I can't imagine Eddy as king either. Granted, he may have inherited his mother's  congenital deafness as well as maybe having a learning disability which might account for the lethargy. However, on the whole, I think Britain and the Crown missed a bullet with that prince's death. George and Mary were a much better 'fit'.

And yes, I do think he was rather odd-looking. There's no accounting for tastes!

I wonder if he would have become king.. I can't help feeling that even back then, the RF and the people might have felt that his really really serious stupidity would have been enought ot try to disbar him from the succession.  The idea of his marrying May was to settle him down and provide him with an intelligent wife who would make up for his shortcomings.. but I think it would have been a herculean job for her.  Maybe they could have persuaded him to abdicate?  Or maybe they would have had no children due to Eddy's er problems with social diseases which would make a pregnancy unwise. 
so if that happened, George would have become King in due course.  he might still have had an irresponsible son like David, and the abdication might stil have happened.

So much was kept under wraps about royal figures in those days, wasn't it? It is hard to know. I actually have a biography of Eddy, in  which letters written by him to friends appear reasonably sensible. I know James Stephen, his university tutor said of him that 'he scarcely knows the words 'to read,' but of course Stephen was an academic  and there might have been just a bit of exaggeration there!

I do think his dissolute lifestyle caused his father some anxiety. Would it have caused an abdication? Who knows!

His new fiancée Mary did remark despairingly to her mother 'Do you think I can do this, Mama?' and it certainly seemed as if the family expected sensible May to keep Eddy on the straight and narrow in all senses. Of course if he had syphilis, as distinct from other STD's, then degeneration and death would presumably have occurred before his father died.

Would he have left an heir? That is speculative isn't it? The Arch Duke Rudolf of Austria Hungary infected his wife and they only had the one child, a daughter, because of it. It may have been the same with Eddy and May.

well yes of course things were kept under wraps.  And Eddy was IMO a real problem. I think that his tutor probably mean that he didn't read at all except for absolute necessary. Edw VII was far from clever or academic and rarely read except novels.. but he was not so dumb as Eddy..
i' have never heard of May saying this, but she did agree to the marriage and was probably thinking of being queen.. It was indeed expected that she would improve Eddy and make him seem less of a mess, but I do wonder if they would in the end have had to get rid of him.  Many European monarchies didn't survive WWI, so I'd say that if Eddy had been king then, maybe the British one would not have, either.  I think that George V was solid and popular in a dull "decent Englishman" sort of way and that helped to save the monarchy.
Its posislbe that Ed's health was affected by his sexual diseases and that's why he succumbed to pneumonia and possibly that might have happened some few years later, if he had caught some other illness...Depends on whtehr he had fathered an heir...

After Eddy's death the Tecks were left in a rather awkward position, of course. May must have been quite embarrassed at her rather peculiar father chanting repeatedly at Sandringham 'It must be a Tsarevitch, it must be a Tsarevitch!' A reference of course to the Empress of Russia, Alexandra's sister, who had married the future Alexander III after her fiancé, his older brother, had died.

Things did work out in the end for May, in the same way, so it was all's well that ends well, especially as she and Eddy weren't at all in love!

 I WONDER if May was in love with George...

Quote from: amabel on March 24, 2015, 10:07:24 AM
I WONDER if May was in love with George...

I don't think either of them ere in love. Didn't he write her a letter a couple of years into the marriage stating that though he had been very fond of her he hadn't had those romantic sort of feelings 'but now I adore you, dearest May!'

It turned out to be the best sort of arranged marriage, I think. May certainly got a better bargain with George, all things considered.

Albert Victor Christian Edward was the heir of Albert Edward, The Prince of Wales.       
One of Prince Albert Victor's instructors said Prince Eddy learnt by listening rather than reading or writing and had no difficulty remembering information. He did like to play polo.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on February 14, 2016, 01:01:05 AM
Albert Victor Christian Edward was the heir of Albert Edward, The Prince of Wales.       
One of Prince Albert Victor's instructors said Prince Eddy learnt by listening rather than reading or writing and had no difficulty remembering information. He did like to play polo.

^ He certainly had a good memory and also didn't excel in the schoolroom at any time. I didn't know he enjoyed polo! Altogether though, AV was a rather dozy and unsatisfactory individual and I do think Britain dodged a bullet by his early death, even though it was terrible for his family.

I don't know who said he had a good memory, because everyone else who had to do with him says that he was basically mentally challenged.  He was lazy and dim witted and I don't believe that he would have been capable of doing the Royal job at all.  And he was seen as lethargic and half asleep all the time.
Playing polo is not really necessary for being King.. I don't believe that even Q Mary would have been able to "bring him up to scratch" as a king

^ I have read a biography of Prince AV that stated that he had good recall of people he might have met only once which is a good thing for a Royal to have, I suppose. His letters are surprisingly articulate, but I agree he was strangely lethargic and uninterested.

I think that Royals are usually prompted to do this, ie if they are meeting people they'll be given info on them, sot hat they can sound like they really remember them
It sounds odd that his letters are articulate if pretty much everyone who has written about him agrees that he was lethargic, not at all intelligent and that he was courting several young women at the same time...(putting this politely I suspect it Means that one of his few interests was sex!)
Perhaps someone wrote his letters for him?  Or helped him?

Quote from: amabel on February 14, 2016, 10:51:27 AM
I think that Royals are usually prompted to do this, ie if they are meeting people they'll be given info on them, sot hat they can sound like they really remember them
It sounds odd that his letters are articulate if pretty much everyone who has written about him agrees that he was lethargic, not at all intelligent and that he was courting several young women at the same time...(putting this politely I suspect it Means that one of his few interests was sex!)
Perhaps someone wrote his letters for him?  Or helped him?

^ Prince Eddie may have had help with his official correspondence (I can't remember whether he had a Private Secretary or not) but those few letters that I have read were to private friends/colleagues. His adoring fan club on the Alexander Time Machine Forum do think that a form of congenital deafness inherited from his mother Alexandra was mostly to blame for his perceived 'doziness' but I'm not so sure!

well perhaps he wasn't absolutely mentally challenged and yes he was rather deaf but still, I don't think that so many people who knew him, (bearing in mind that royals are usually flattered) would say he was lethargic and not very bright, if it weren't so. 
I'd say if he was not very good at anyting, like writing, the RF might have ensured that he had someone to help even with private letters, not wanting him to look too bad...

^ This is one of Prince Eddy's letters written to Lady Sybil St Clair Erskine, the 19 year old daughter of the Earl of Rosslyn, in the summer of 1891 when AV was supposedly deeply in love with the Princess Helene d' Orleans whom he wished to marry.

' I thought it impossible a short time ago to love more than one person at the same time, and I believe according to things in general it should be so, but I do feel that exceptions will happen at times. I can explain it easier to you when next we meet than by writing.

I can only hope and trust that this charming creature' (Lady Sibyl) 'who has so fascinated me is not merely playing with my feelings....I can't believe she would after what she has already said and asked me to say...If one could only transplant oneself now and then and all of a sudden appear before the person one most wishes to see how delightful that would be! I am sure that if only it were possible the world would be a great deal happier than it is. Don't you think so?'

Prince Eddy asked Lady Sybil to make sure to destroy the coat of arms and signature on all his letters (which obviously she didn't do) as 'You can't be too careful what you do in these days, when hardly anybody is to be trusted.'

Putting aside his writing to a young girl when he supposedly wished to be engaged to another, I don't think Prince Eddy would be getting help from anyone in composing this letter, under the circumstances. Anyway, his phrasing is similar in letters to other people.

True, he was a bit of a philanaderr and some say bisexual as well.  But there were books on writing letters, maybe he copied some of the phrases!

"He is pleasing, talks well and will be popular when he gets more at ease" was the opinion of Henry Pononby, who noted this privately to his wife when Prince AV was 19. In spite of Ponsonby being Private Secretary to Queen Victoria, he was no respecter of Royal rank, quite the reverse in fact.

The Prince's reported conversations in the biographies Ive read don't appear to show mental dullness, just a languid quality. Yes, I think his brother George was a much more incisive and active character but, in spite of being an uninterested pupil during his schooldays, I don't believe Prince Eddy was mentally challenged. I just think he was an indulged, louche, dozy and unintellectual young man, who may have had a hearing problem.

The exclusive Rannelagh Polo Club moved from Fulham to Barn Elms in 1884. Was Prince Albert Victor a member of The Rannelagh Polo Club?   

Quote from: TLLK on December 28, 2018, 07:32:30 AM
Which will have the British tabloids gushing over "How young" the new monarch/consort (William/Catherine -61) would be when compared to the previous ones (Charles/Camilla-70+) :lol:.

Prince Albert Edward had been Prince of Wales for almost 60 years before he became King Edward VII.

When he became King, Edward VII reorganized the royal palaces. He gave instructions for the telephone system to be extended. Various coach houses were to be converted into garages for the motor cars.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on March 07, 2022, 10:37:21 PM
When he became King, Edward VII reorganized the royal palaces. He gave instructions for the telephone system to be extended. Various coach houses were to be converted into garages for the motor cars.

Yes, unlike his mother Edward was a great enthusiast for new technologies, (especially those that sped things up and enhanced his social life. I don?t believe there are any photos of Queen Victoria sitting in the very early primitive cars of the time, but there are several of Edward VII doing so. His wife Alexandra was completely deaf by then and it?s doubtful that she ever used a telephone during her husband?s reign.

When furnishing the library at Sandringham, King Edward VII summoned a man from Hatchard's bookstore. Edward instructed him to fill the shelves with whatever books might be considered for a country house.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on July 19, 2022, 10:21:19 PM

What do you think about older historical film being colorized?     
Colourised: King Edward VII at Dartmouth (1902) [British Path?] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92v2YITdoy0)

I don?t have any particular opinion on colorisation of docos one way or the other. Black and white (and sepia) film has been colorised for decades. We have very old Victorian photographs in our family albums that were also colourised at the time so it?s been going on for more than a century at least. I don?t like to see classic black and white studio films being colourised. though. They were made in black and white for a reason.

Prince Albert Edward was to inform his son Prince Albert Victor of the delightful news of the decision about his marriage in a delicate father-son exchange skirting around the subject of yet another possible bride. His father informed Eddy that his duty lay in a proposal to Princess Victoria Mary of Teck.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on November 11, 2022, 09:49:35 PM
Prince Albert Edward was to inform his son Prince Albert Victor of the delightful news of the decision about his marriage in a delicate father-son exchange skirting around the subject of yet another possible bride. His father informed Eddy that his duty lay in a proposal to Princess Victoria Mary of Teck.

I don?t think this languid Prince was overly bothered really. He dutifully trotted off, murmered a proposal and became engaged to Mary of Teck, even if he did later call for his true love Helene of Orleans on his death bed. (He had a fever.)

At least Prince Eddy was in his late twenties when his father suggested he consider marriage with someone suitable. Bertie had had parental pressure put on him at twenty, and proposed out of sheer duty as he and Alexandra didn?t know each other at all. George married Mary without too much of a fuss either, though he?d been in love with Marie of Edinburgh (later of Romania) years before.

albert and Victoria pressured Bertie because they feared that given his Hanoverian tendency to like women a lot, he would get involved with mistresses if he did not marry early.  Albert was pretty silly, really and got as hysterical as Victora about B's affair with Nellie Clifden. And I think that Bertie was fond of Alix, if not in love.  She was beautiful and charming and he liked her well enough to get married.  But it did not mean he was going to be faithful.

Yes, I do think that Bertie quite liked Alix and if he had to be married, (and he knew he had to with parents like his) his marriage would at least be quite pleasant as his young wife wasn?t the sort to cause difficulties where his pleasures were concerned. I don?t think he intended to be constantly unfaithful to his wife when he first wed but let?s say he didn?t fight too hard against it!

Vicky, over in Prussia, was quite involved in the process of choosing her brother?s wife and she and his parents knew that, at the very least, his bride had to possess good looks as otherwise Bertie just wouldn?t bother. Several young princesses etc were discarded because of bad teeth or skin or posture, nervous tics etc.

As far as Albert was concerned he not only had to contend with the thought that his son might turn out to be like Victoria?s ?wicked? Hanoverian uncles (George IV and some of his brothers) but there was the extra component of his own father and brother. He was extremely straitlaced and really, it was a good job he didn?t live another twenty or thirty years as he would have been heartbroken about Bertie?s way of life. I?ve often wondered whether, in that case, Bertie would have been much more covert about his activities,

I think that Bertie while he had been taught to revere his father, was soon weary of "ALbert the Good and the restrictions that he had put on him, as a young lad.  so when he was a grown married man, he didn't intend to lead a strait laced life... probably Albert would if he had lived, fretted himself into an early grave anyway, with worry over Bertie and evertyhing that worried him.

Yes, if Albert had lived another twenty years he would have worried himself sick over Vicky and Fritz?s position in Prussia with the scheming Bismarck, Alice and Louis?s little Duchy being cut into pieces by the Prussians, Affie marrying a Tsar?s daughter for her money, Leopold?s health, Prussian aggression, and a myriad of other things. If ever there was a person who was a complete and utter worry wart it was Albert. He was a prime candidate for stomach ulcers, let alone cancer of the stomach or whatever else he died of!

probably, he would also have worried about "Society" leading a pleasure loving life and sexual morals in the Marlborough set becoming as free and easy as they were in Regency times. To be fair I think he did worry about the Poor as well, and would have fretted about them,

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on February 16, 2023, 08:57:25 PM

Alexandra liked dancing, ice skating, riding, and hunting.   
Her mother-in-law Queen Victoria disapproved of these pursuits for a Princess of Wales.

I think a lot of those activities were linked to Alexandra?s childbearing years. Victoria complained very early on in the marriage to Bertie that her son was taking Alix out every evening to social events and that she looked peaky and tired in consequence. She wrote ?Hopes? (of a pregnancy) ?there can be none.? It defies logic that Victoria wouldn?t want her daughter in law to dance or ride horses as she herself did both until Albert?s death, and continued with a little horse riding afterwards as well.

I?ve never read that Alix hunted regularly anyway, but the activity, often involving jumping over ditches etc could cause a nasty accident (especially in the early months of pregnancy) and the same with ice skating if there was a break in the ice. Alix took care of herself sensibly, anyway. She was pushed around a frozen lake in an ice chair a few hours before her first baby?s birth.

The Coronation of Edward VII ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/the-coronation-of-edward-vii-187255/)

Edward VII reigned from 22 January 1901 ? 6 May 1910.

From the royal Central article

The British Empire was also represented in the coronation procession. Initial plans for the procession included troops from various countries, including Denmark, Germany, Russia, and Austro-Hungary. However, with the rescheduling, the procession was completely made up of British and Empire troops. End quote.

That is the oddest thing I?ve ever heard of! Admittedly the monarchs of three of those nations were relatives and often attended, rode in processions, at weddings, funerals, jubilees etc in each other?s countries. But Germany and Austria-Hungary sending troops over to march in the Coronation procession of the new British King! What the..?

It wasn?t as if Edward, who was known as a Francophile, was very close to Franz Ferdinand of Austria and the relationship between Kaiser Will and his uncle was hardly warm and tender to say the least. There had been strains between Imperial Germany and GB over rivalries in Africa, economically and in the size of their respective navies as well. And Austria was a natural ally of Germany.

Well, you live and learn and I have never heard of those plans to have an international contingent of troops marching. All I can say is, perhaps it?s just as well that Edward had to have his Coronation postponed!

Thank you for the insight @Curryong. Yes I agree that would have been odd to have foreign troops participating in the procession.

I find it interesting that Edward VII's reign ended and George V's began on May 6 which is the date for the coronation of their descendent, Charles III. IMO it's fascinating to see the number of historic events that happened throughout English/British history on the calendar.

Edward VII actually died at a very inconvenient time as there were more Conservative Peers in the House of Lords who took advantage of their majority and had been refusing to pass Loyd George?s budget of reforms for months.

The new King George was faced with one heck of a mess, as the Liberal Govt kept insisting that he appoint more Liberal peers in the Lords to counter this. He did so, but to a large extent it was his own efforts, tact and diplomacy that allowed the Budget to finally pass quite peacefully, though an election (which the Liberals won) had to be fought as well. It?s an odd thing to admire in George V who?s often regarded as blunt and bad tempered, but in fact his reign was peppered with these easeful actions.

Wiki on Edward?s inconvenient death.
?In the last year of his life he was involved in the constitutional crisis brought about by the refusal of the Conservative majority in the Lords to pass the Liberal budget of 1909. Edward died before the situation could be resolved by the Liberal victory in the election in 1910.? End quote.

well I dont suppose Edward wanted to die at that awkward time.

Quote from: Amabel2 on March 20, 2023, 03:29:54 PM
well I dont suppose Edward wanted to die at that awkward time.

No, I don?t suppose he did, lol! However, if he had looked after his weight and not smoked cigars to excess he might have rivalled or even passed his mother?s age. He was warned several times by his doctors about both health hazards from his thirties onwards, and if most people wheezed so badly they could scarcely breathe in what was then regarded as old age (their sixties) I think the majority would have made a serious attempt to refrain from smoking. However, we are on the wrong threads to discuss this. I?m always running off on tangents! Sorry mods!

No worries @Curryong. This is all fits into the discussion for Edward VII and Alexandra.

Here's a post from Unofficial Royalty aptly titled "Guts and Glory" that discusses Edward's postponed coronation. At least this postponement later led to the coronation being held successfully at a later date. We all know that one Edward's postponed coronation resulted in a very different outcome. Edward V never had his moment in Westminster Abbey.

Guts and Glory: Edward VII?s Appendix and the Coronation that Never Was | Unofficial Royalty (https://www.unofficialroyalty.com/guts-and-glory-edward-viis-appendix-and-the-coronation-that-never-was/)

It was not until 1886, when his friend Roseberry became Foreign Secretary that Albert Edward, Prince of Wales received copies of various secret Foreign Office dispatches.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on June 04, 2023, 10:26:03 PM
It was not until 1886, when his friend Roseberry became Foreign Secretary that Albert Edward, Prince of Wales received copies of various secret Foreign Office dispatches.

By that time Victoria?s eyesight was fading and she needed spectacles so I doubt that reading her red boxes was an absolute pleasure for her every day. In the last few years of her life her sight had got so bad that her daughter Beatrice had to read out what had been written, and it?s doubtful that a lot was typed in those days, so much of it it would have been hand-written by clerks.

But really the whole problem through Bertie?s adult life was that, though Victoria loved him she refused to believe that he was serious-minded enough to be trusted with any sort of discreet Govt correspondence. She despaired of his lifestyle which she regarded as totally frivolous and yet didn?t recognise that her want of confidence in his abilities had largely led to it after 1861.

She knew too that Bertie had been a Francophile since boyhood and that he and Willie, the (future) German Emperor didn?t get on at all well, though outwardly they were cordial, so that may have been a worry, as by the last years of her reign Germany was becoming a very serious naval and industrial competitor to Great Britain.

That?s a very fancy apron! I have seen a few photos of Princess Alexandra and other royal women wearing aprons when on ?nursery duties though, with their half dressed infants on their laps, presumably after baths. A bit different to floating around wearing apron and long gloves (thorns, not showing bare arms?) while arranging flowers.