Princess Diana curtseyed

[dianab]

I am not defending anybody. Everybody has flaws even the Queen.  And both Philip and Elizabeth worked on their marriage and made sure it worked.

If you find it "amusing" so be it. It is real life and nobody is perfect. Even the Queen,.

how much their marriage works is a (total) matter of speculation...

[sandy]

I think work must have gone into a marriage that lasted since 1947. They may of course have gotten on each other's nerves over the years.

[amabel]

how much their marriage works is a (total) matter of speculation...

I would have said it was blindlingly obvious that it works, and that they still love each other and have lasted all these years.

[royalanthropologist]

@sandy wrote:

"She did give "her side" to the Sun Editor in the eighties and it came out when Stuart Higgins was interviewed by Sally Bedell Smith for her DIana book."

Your statement above give the impression that Camilla was a press manipulator. She was not.That was Diana. Camilla has been remarkably discreet despite the provocations all these years. That is one of the reasons why she is in the position she is in. The BRF have nothing to worry about her in terms of discretion and keeping family secrets intact. There is no need for a gagging order like they did with Diana because Camilla know what to say and when to say it and to whom. Her friends and confidantes are equally discreet. You will not find a Paul Burrell or Simmons in her circle of friends.

If Camilla really want to put the boot in with revelations of what Diana was really like in private, I am not sure her fans would cope with what came out. Take the example of the story of Diana making death threats. Some of Diana's fans refuse to believe it because it does not fit their constructed and unrealistic image of a perfect Diana but they might be surprised when evidence of Diana's less pleasant side is corroborated by other parties.

Just like some of them refused to believe those crank calls Diana made despite the police confirming them after an investigation. When challenged, they retreat into "it is all speculation. There is no proof" or alternatively "why don't you criticize C&C instead. They are much worse".  Many things that Diana accused others of doing to her have no evidence but you believe them at first glance, going as far as even contradicting Diana herself in some instances.

Camilla is very discreet and pragmatic. Even her recent interview was quite tame, talking about the press harassment and the vitriol from people who claim they are Diana supporters. Then some who claim to be Diana supporters run off into this tangent about how terrible the interview was because Camilla did not condemn herself and Charles like they wanted.

All that Stuart Higgins said that he would ask Camilla about speculation and she would tell him what was true and what was off base. He came away with the impression that Camilla was in Charles' camp but she was never a leaker like Diana. Certainly nothing Camilla did comes up to the level of Morton and Bashir. If Camilla had wanted to give a riposte to Diana's attacks, I am not sure her image would have survived. But she chose to simply ignore Diana because in the end she had gotten what she wanted...Charles.

You try to pick Higgin's comment as evidence that Camilla was the one manipulating the press and leaking stories. She was not and Stuart Higgins has never said such a thing. I also find it interesting that you pick out one aspect of Sally Beddel's book because it makes C&C look bad but fail to actually recognize that Sally noted how Diana significantly contributed to the break down of her marriage with her unreasonable, irrational and unpredictable behavior  early in the marriage. This to me seems like selective memory to reinforce your jaundiced view of C&C and your rose-tinted view of Diana.

[sandy]

Camilla got all the marbles she did not IMO get them by being "nice." She was and is shrewd and manipulative. She set about undermining Diana from the get go. Playing mentor to her and having her own agenda. Camilla was not 'remarkably' discreet' she name called Diana to Charles and she also played hostess in Diana's home at Highgrove. Diana went to the press because nasty stories were being leaked about her by Charles' friends. She was trying to defend herself of the charges she was "mad" (Soames even went to the media saying she had paranoia). Charles' friends were sycophantic and were trying to "help" Charles by trashing Diana and providing safe houses for Charles and Camilla (who BTW still had a husband).

Junor has no evidence that Diana made "death threats." No proof no phone records no nothing. Her research was primarily going to Charles' pals who were all too willing to trash the late Diana even making up stories.  Camilla was and is no victim.  Why do you take this as fact with no proof? Just Junor's "word" and Junor is known to loathe Diana and adore C and C.  There is no proof of these death threats. It is cowardly of Junor to make these charges about a dead woman. Shows the calibre of Charles' sympathizers in the media.

Hoare could not possibly complain about DIana because he was not squeaky clean himself. He pursued his own friend's wife. He can't take the high road. He is still with his wife BTW.

Stuart Higgins DID report the calls. It is in various books including Bedell Smith and Bradford and other sources. He was in the press so Camilla was manipulating the media. And she chooses sycophants like Junor to make her look impossibly perfect (savior of the monarchy) and Diana the "evil" madwoman. Leaving out how she derided and put down the wife and pretended to be her friend.

Camilla's own interview earlier this year showed she had no signs of remorse just played victim. She was in the wrong and even before Diana her idea of dealing with a cheating husband was to become the Prince of Wales mistress.

Sally DID make Diana look bad but she also got that story from Higgins showing that Camilla herself was not that squeaky clean.

. I think there is a rose tinted view of Camilla going on here from you.

DIana was undermined by CHarles' friends and by Camilla.Again, how do you think Camilla got where she is today? She saw off the wife and later on saw off other women she saw as threats like Elizabeth Buckanan and Tiggy Legge Bourke. Camilla was and is out for Number One. I have no admiration for the woman to say the least. And Charles was foolish to get involved with his friends' wives. Once he decided not to pursue Camilla Shand as wife he should have walked.

you believe lies by Penny Junor who has no proof of any death threats. And if Camilla were alone she has no witnesses.  Junor is a huge crawling sycophant and has no conscience. She is pals with Charles and Camilla and no doubt will get rewarded with honors when Charles becomes King.

Junor is foolish because Diana's sons totally countered her book praising Diana.

Camilla got most of what Diana had and I believe she wanted it all and got it.

Camilla's pals are by no means discreet. They were the first ones to run to the press telling nasty stories about Diana. And before Morton.

Camilla derided her husband to her lover calling him the stuffed stoat and "it." Not a nice way to talk about the father of her only children.  So if she is not a press manipulator why did she speak to an editor of a leading newspaper The Sun?

Camilla knows what to say all right. She goes to her girlfriend Junor to help with a book. ANd the book makes her look like a Saint and the Savior of the Monarchy and Diana the "madwoman" . Oh yes, Camilla knows what to say.

[dianab]

I think work must have gone into a marriage that lasted since 1947. They may of course have gotten on each other's nerves over the years.

well the queen sophia and king jc of spain remain married... maybe their marriage works too...
Double post auto-merged: October 14, 2017, 12:38:07 PM

the sun got many exclusives in 1980s re: marriage of the waleses, stuart higgins confirmed his source was camilla. the others royal reporters said as they heard the rumour that camilla was feeding the sun with stories in 1980s

[sandy]

Difference is Elizabeth II  is the Queen Regnant not Consort. She is holding all the cards so to speak

Camilla did leak those stories.  I agree.

[royalanthropologist]

Soames only called Diana "paranoid" after Panorama. I actually think he was quite restrained after what had just happened. Diana had done something which no other member of the royal family had ever done on national television. It is unrealistic to think Charles' friends or his family would be full of kindness for her.

As for evidence, I have heard that story before. If it is negative about Diana then evidence is required but if it is negative about C&C then just a mere mention of it means it is factual. Could Higgins have been lying? Do you have any proof that what he said is true? But of course you take his word as a factual reflection of what Camilla did.

My own logic is this: someone that makes crank calls or pushes people down stairs can very easily make death threats to their love rival particularly if she suspects that that love rival will not report her to the police. You were on recording disputing Diana's own account of her incidents with Rainer so this is nothing new. Not even the word of the principal herself is enough to convince you that Diana had faults.

Camilla has been a victim of vitriolic press reports, harassment and hounding for doing something that Diana herself did...commit adultery with a married man. She too has been a victim of a philanderer and cruel husband. The difference is that she did not go to the press to complain about her lot.

You seem to imagine that because Hoare is still with his wife, it is a validation of what Diana tried to do to that family. It is not. She tried to break them up but found a woman that was much more in control of her emotions and marriage. Of course being filthy rich also helped. Hoare was not about to exchange his marriage for a Mr. Diana role. That does not mean that Diana did not try to create trouble for them with those phone calls.

Typically, some Diana fans try to blame him for her actions. Hoare has never made a single crank call that we know of or even complained about being a wronged husband. He is just a man that made a mistake and corrected it by breaking up with Diana, something that she apparently refused to accept until forced to by public embarrassment and a police investigation. Hoare was not a hypocrite or victim who turned into perpetrator.

William and Harry have never commented on the death threats allegations or the irrational behavior. They have challenged other things said as being untrue but never challenged them. The fact that they praise their mother does not mean that they are blind to her faults.

As for disrespecting the father of your children (your charge against Camilla). Diana did much worse in that department: threatening Charles' job, calling him a "German", a toad and describing his toilet habits to strangers. There is nothing Camilla has done that Diana has not done (albeit with less success). The difference is that Camilla is not a pretty face that is very good at handling PR.

[dianab]

1982   The Sun reports problems in the marriage. Examples of headlines: "A Public Bust-up!"....."Pregnant Di Falls down Stairs" "Are Charles and Diana Moving Apart?"

February 18, 1982   The Star and The Sun follow Princess Diana and Charles to the Bahamas and in a sneak attack take pictures of pregnant Diana in a bikini. Queen calls the action "The blackest day in the history of British journalism."
Lloyd Turner, Sun's editor, is sacked for the day.

Throughout the year, headline coverage on the marriage continues : "Loveless Marriage" "Disco Diana dumps Charles" "Old Flame the Prince Won't Forget..." "Fears for Di's Health"

The Royals And The Press | Princess And The Press | FRONTLINE | PBS


Finally,. I'm fascinated by the Sun--the fact their political editor has won an award for his political reporting but the Editor of the Sun tells me it was mainly for his royal scoops. What do you make of the Sun being used as the vehicle for the rehabilitation of Mrs Parker Bowles and the Prince? There are a number of stories about her charitable activities and so on. What's going on there?

a:  Well there have been rumours which I have no idea whether they are true or not that Mrs Parker Bowles and the Sun have had some traffic with each other but on what terms I simply don't know. What is true is a number of the mistakes I would have to own up to eleven or twelve years down the line, is that one used to believe that when the Sun published royal stories, as with a good many other Sun stories, that they were to put it politely, not very reliable.' But we've all grudgingly had to face the fact that the Sun's royal stories are far more often accurate than anybody else's.

There have been lots of jokes about trying to find a member of the royal staff not in some way on Rupert Murdoch's payroll but this may be said, I'm sure the Editor of the Sun would say 'This is the jealousy of Fleet Street rivals.' I don't know. All we have to face is however they get the stories, their royal stories tend to be pretty on the mark.

Interview - Max Hastings | Princess And The Press | FRONTLINE | PBS
Double post auto-merged: October 14, 2017, 12:57:36 PM

tina brown wrote in her book that stuart higgins didnt want talk anymore about those conversations because he was working with the duchess of cornwall... seems me charles and camilla want him getting quiet...

[royalanthropologist]

I have always considered Murdoch to be a crass republican. All his publications have just reinforced my original view. The Sun is a cheap, nasty tabloid the likes of which you hardly see anywhere in the world save perhaps the USA. Queen Marguerite of Denmark once commented about the nastiness of the British tabloids. Unfortunately many read and believe them. The Murdoch Press has played an important role in diminishing the prestige of the monarchy. It is a wonder the institution has survived the kind of press they received in the 1980s and the 1990s.

[amabel]

well the queen sophia and king jc of spain remain married... maybe their marriage works too...
Double post auto-merged: October 14, 2017, 12:38:07 PM

It uis well known that Juan Carlos has been openly and repeatedly unfaithful to Sophia and that alhtogh they still technically live together, now that they have abdicated they lead separate lives.  I can't see how you can compare that to the queen and Philip who are very obviously devoted to each other...
Double post auto-merged: October 14, 2017, 01:00:21 PM

I have always considered Murdoch to be a crass republican. All his publications have just reinforced my original view. The Sun is a cheap, nasty tabloid the likes of which you hardly see anywhere in the world save perhaps the USA. Queen Marguerite of Denmark once commented about the nastiness of the British tabloids. Unfortunately many read and believe them. The Murdoch Press has played an important role in diminishing the prestige of the monarchy. It is a wonder the institution has survived the kind of press they received in the 1980s and the 1990s.

Of course he  is a republican. that's hardly news.  and as for the monarchy, it has survived because most Brtiitsh people do not take the tabloids seriously, int the way that non british royal followers seem to do. and because the queen, Philip, Charles etc have gone on doing their jobs, quietly and not taking too much notice of such papers or wasting their time arguing with them...

[dianab]

^lol well known philip just married the queen because money and was cheating on his wife and continued so for DECADES... even sarah bradford said she dont believes philip ever loved the queen and any woman for this matter... she said there are men who are like that... she also said the queen put up with his mistresses because she knew she was the wife and he'll never leave her

[royalanthropologist]

Just been reading the interview by the Daily Telegraph editor as sent by @dianab. I cannot quite believe the naivety and foolishness of Charles believing that engaging in a tit-for-tat with his embittered wife was going to do him any good. He was advised to put up and shut up but refused to do so. Silly man. Look how it all turned out. The substantial Dimblebly project was summarized into a single sentence which was not even necessary for the biography. Instead they all just chose to air their dirty laundry for people to pick over the bits they liked most.

[amabel]

and who are these mistresses?  have you got names?  Evidence? 

[Curryong]

I have also just read the very interesting Max Hastings interview. I was struck again of course by the damage done by the War of the Wales (discussed so often on this forum) and how both sides went on, trying to 'win' the public after the separation.

And also by these remarks towards the end of the article
''Well, the whole problem I think still for the Prince of Wales is that he still honestly believes that if the world really knew him, really understood him, they'd know what a wonderful super chap he is and somebody sometime might tell him life's not like that.'

The sad thing IMO is that Charles still believes that.

[sandy]

Soames only called Diana "paranoid" after Panorama. I actually think he was quite restrained after what had just happened. Diana had done something which no other member of the royal family had ever done on national television. It is unrealistic to think Charles' friends or his family would be full of kindness for her.

As for evidence, I have heard that story before. If it is negative about Diana then evidence is required but if it is negative about C&C then just a mere mention of it means it is factual. Could Higgins have been lying? Do you have any proof that what he said is true? But of course you take his word as a factual reflection of what Camilla did.

My own logic is this: someone that makes crank calls or pushes people down stairs can very easily make death threats to their love rival particularly if she suspects that that love rival will not report her to the police. You were on recording disputing Diana's own account of her incidents with Rainer so this is nothing new. Not even the word of the principal herself is enough to convince you that Diana had faults.

Camilla has been a victim of vitriolic press reports, harassment and hounding for doing something that Diana herself did...commit adultery with a married man. She too has been a victim of a philanderer and cruel husband. The difference is that she did not go to the press to complain about her lot.

You seem to imagine that because Hoare is still with his wife, it is a validation of what Diana tried to do to that family. It is not. She tried to break them up but found a woman that was much more in control of her emotions and marriage. Of course being filthy rich also helped. Hoare was not about to exchange his marriage for a Mr. Diana role. That does not mean that Diana did not try to create trouble for them with those phone calls.

Typically, some Diana fans try to blame him for her actions. Hoare has never made a single crank call that we know of or even complained about being a wronged husband. He is just a man that made a mistake and corrected it by breaking up with Diana, something that she apparently refused to accept until forced to by public embarrassment and a police investigation. Hoare was not a hypocrite or victim who turned into perpetrator.

William and Harry have never commented on the death threats allegations or the irrational behavior. They have challenged other things said as being untrue but never challenged them. The fact that they praise their mother does not mean that they are blind to her faults.

As for disrespecting the father of your children (your charge against Camilla). Diana did much worse in that department: threatening Charles' job, calling him a "German", a toad and describing his toilet habits to strangers. There is nothing Camilla has done that Diana has not done (albeit with less success). The difference is that Camilla is not a pretty face that is very good at handling PR.

Soames had no business calling her "paranoid" at all. There were nasty stories about her leaked including the old Harvey the dog story which was refuted since it was found that Diana did not keep CHarles from his dog. The dog was old and sick and incontinent. He ended up at the Highgrove kennel so Charles was never separated from her.

Hoare did phone her and while in this relationship with Diana he was supposedly Charles' friend. He had a wife who held all the purse strings in the household. He had  nothing to be proud of. He also was involved with another woman pre Diana. He is no saint. He did not charge Diana with anything.

Um, Charles did it on national television when he outed his mistress forcing the divorce of the PBs. He also trashed his parents via his authorized biographer Dimbleby He still did it today with Bedell Smith and Junor.

I said that Raine and Diana made up. The incident was their business and they resolved it. So did you want Raine NOT to make up with her?

Diana confronted Camilla why would she feel she had to phone her.  She did this in a public place. It was out in the open and no threats were issue.

Junor can say Diana robbed banks or anything because DIana is dead. I don't believe she made threats to Camilla. There is NO proof. Camilla herself never said this publicly and supposedly she was the only witness.  It's interesting that only Diana loathers jump on Junor's bandwagon. Welcome to the Junor club so to speak. I maintain Junor lied and she can say anything about Diana. Diana openly confronted Camilla. There is NO proof. No phone records. Nada.

Camilla called her husband names, made fun of the wife, and trashes the dead wife.

Harping on the stairs episode does not make what Camilla did "good." She undermined a wife every step of the way and her girlfriend Junor lies about DIana and make things up. Amazingly people believe it even though she admits how she feels about C and C and loathes Diana. Junor makes her living character assassinating a dead with with Camilla's connivance.

The boys know all about their father's weaknesses too. Big Time. I doubt they believe what Poison Penny says about their mother. No wonder William is closer to his in-laws now

Camilla called Diana that ridiculous creature. Charles in public said Diana and Fergie had "small minds" and put DIana down. He is no saint. By any means.
Double post auto-merged: October 14, 2017, 02:14:41 PM

Just been reading the interview by the Daily Telegraph editor as sent by @dianab. I cannot quite believe the naivety and foolishness of Charles believing that engaging in a tit-for-tat with his embittered wife was going to do him any good. He was advised to put up and shut up but refused to do so. Silly man. Look how it all turned out. The substantial Dimblebly project was summarized into a single sentence which was not even necessary for the biography. Instead they all just chose to air their dirty laundry for people to pick over the bits they liked most.

It showed Charles' feelings and he corroborated much of what Diana claimed.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

You guys have lots of good stuff going on here, when im back from work ill write more, as for "Fatty" Soames, you have to take into account, aside from being a longtime Charles friend, he was mad at Diana for her supporting his wife leaving him on that ill fated Klosters Trip and remaining friends with her(ironic considering he was with Charles during the Zimbabwe trip where CPB was there and helped hide the rlationship from her for years...), then on top of it, he was defense minister, so he also wasnt keen later on with Diana's stance on landmines....

[royalanthropologist]

@sandy This world of saints and sinners bears no relevance to reality. Interestingly now Bedell is part of the Charles camp according to your post but you insist that she is the one that effectively outed Camilla as a media manipulator. Circular conspiracy theories in my view. I insist that Junor is exactly like Morton but on opposite sides. Neither is worse or better than the other.

I also question your assertion that "No wonder William is closer to his in-laws now". Not true and William has never said such a thing. On the contrary he has said many, many times how much he loves and admires his father. This "Hail Mary" hope that William is ostracizing his father has no basis in fact. You just have to see W&H interacting with their father to know how much nonsense has been peddled about their relationship.

Dimbleby did not corroborate anything apart from the fact that Charles regretted his first marriage and had gone back to Camilla. Diana said much else that has later proved to be either untrue or an exaggeration. As someone here wisely pointed out, it is never a good idea to take as fact the musings of a woman that is bitterly reminiscing about her failed marriage.

The attack on Hoare is telling. Here is a man who has never said anything about that sorry episode and is not a hypocrite. Hoare has never taken on the role of a wronged spouse (like Diana did) and has never complained about the devastating effects of infidelity (like Diana did). He made a mistake with Diana and ended it. She was the one that wanted to extend the saga.

The fact that you now actually try to deflect blame on him because he was sleeping with his friend's wife is just that...deflection. Charles could not care less who Diana slept with and has never shown any particular interest or injury as a result of Diana's affairs. He just didn't care. She was free to do as he liked and he has never ever shown even an ounce of sexual jealousy.
Double post auto-merged: October 14, 2017, 05:50:08 PM

I actually heard something like that @Duch_Luver_4ever and it in some ways explains his dislike of Diana. Many divorced or separated men have a visceral dislike of the ex-wives club. The same applies to women who have been abandoned by their spouses not being enthusiastic about men who divorce their wives.

The arms deal is very, very interesting. I heard somewhere that Diana claimed Soames had called her and threatened her. Indeed, Soames is in the arms trade (just like APB). I would not be surprised if that did not somehow add to the angst.

Plus Diana was actually a liberal in many ways. That means that to Conservatives, she would not be particularly appealing. John Major was no longer a fan by the divorce. She found a supporter and like-minded person in Tony Blair.  That is a very interesting take on the motivations of Soames.

[sandy]

I never said Bedell was a supporter of Diana. I just noted that she put this information about Camilla in her book about Diana. I know she's not pro Diana. But she still put in the information about Camilla.  Why Bedell did this is something you would need to ask her.

William is close to his in-laws and it is a fact that he spends a lot of time with them. He of course loves his father and I never said he did not. I noted he spends much time with the Middletons.

Charles himself admitted adultery on international TV. ANd the PBs divorced  sooner rather than later after Charles' confessions.

I never said anything like that about Hoare. I did not "attack him". I just said he would look bad if he complained about Diana. And he did not. He kept his mouth shut and probably will never comment on Diana. Ever. Likewise Diana did not talk publicly about Hoare. It appears to be a closed book. So why the calls are brought up to help defend C and C and slamming Diana's character, when it is over and done with . Diana was not jailed.

Of course Charles did not care. Hoare was just acting par for the course in Charles' set. Friends' wives not being off limits..

John Major never said he disliked or liked Diana. He just announced the separation.

I think it is deflection to bring up what Diana did and even resorting to trashing her for the stories that Junor told about the highly alleged threatening phone calls. Junor has an agenda and can make all sorts of accusations with nothing to back them up and of course C and C fans believe every word. If Junor said Diana was Jack the Ripper, the Camilla groupies would say oh yes that's right even if she was born later it had to have been Diana.

Diana went face to face with Camilla at a party. And there were witnesses. She told her "I want my husband" after Camilla told her she was popular with the public and so on. Why on earth would she have to call her up if she confronted her publicly. I think Junor is shameless and nobody else accused Diana of this.  No witnesses, Camilla being"alone" and no phone records. Just Junor helping out her gal pal Camilla. In her own perverse way.

[royalanthropologist]

Hoare would not comment on Diana because it was an embarrassing mistake on his part. He wanted to end it but she would not accept hence the crank calls. Likewise, Diana would have had everyone believe that it was only Charles having affairs until those crank calls exposed one of her affairs. Even Morton was designed to preempt potential condemnation for her affairs.

I am afraid the crank calls, Raine, slapping dad etc. will be brought up to show that Diana was not the one-dimension goody that some of her fans attempt to make her out to be. She had flaws like everybody else and actually did contribute to the breakdown of her marriage (Camilla or no Camilla).

Some of the so called victims of the C&C indiscretions do not give a hoot that they married or had an affair. APB wanted to divorce to marry his mistress. They came to an agreement with Camilla and that was that. Neither of them have ever complained about their marriage, divorce or life afterwards. They get on well with each other. He is no devastated husband. The divorce was good for him because it allowed him to marry his lover.

Your statement does insinuate that William spending time with the Middletons is somehow a punishment for the sins you assign to Charles. It is not and has no basis in fact. What is true is that married men tend to spend more time with their in-laws than single men. It does not mean that William has in any way abandoned his father or denounced him. That is just a "Hail Mary" of justice for Diana.

John Major disliked Diana after the mess of panorama and the land mines. The conservatives were saying she was interfering in politics. In fact she did have a cry about it when confronted in Angola.

Double post auto-merged: October 14, 2017, 06:56:27 PM

Setting aside all the usual niceties of who done it, I am curious to know whether when John Major envisaged the separation being a short term solution in which Diana could remain separate but officially married. I once read that he had suggested that she could be crowned in due course but Parliament completely refused such a thing.

[amabel]

What?  its not up to Major whether she was crowned or not.  (Or Parliament, unless it was a case of very very serious loss of popularity).  J Major said that there was no reason why she ad Charles should not be crowned in due course, but at the time this did cause gasps of amazement in Parliament as no one could envisage the 2 of them being together for that long..  when they were so hostile to each other. 
Tthe C of E said that they had no problem with the coronation or the separation, provide there were no affairs, no bad feeling and that the 2 of them put their children first.  But that clearly wasn't happening. Both of them were having affairs, boht were hostile and interested in scoring points off each other rather than putting the children first.
  So while the queen tired to keep them married technically -, it was clear that at some stage, she would problaby have to give way and allow them to divorce.

[dianab]

@sandy

I also question your assertion that "No wonder William is closer to his in-laws now". Not true and William has never said such a thing. On the contrary he has said many, many times how much he loves and admires his father. This "Hail Mary" hope that William is ostracizing his father has no basis in fact. You just have to see W&H interacting with their father to know how much nonsense has been peddled about their relationship.

If William and Harry had a good relationship with their father they'll have corroborate the their Spencer uncle's statement to stop the Diana tapes being aired in England. But They said nothing. They were quite quiet... it was obvious as the Establishment was on a mission in those days before the Diana tapes doc being aired... Penny Junor of all people was worried about the memory/personal integrity of Diana and the feelings of Diana's siblings AND sons... how a joke!

[sandy]

Hoare would not comment on Diana because it was an embarrassing mistake on his part. He wanted to end it but she would not accept hence the crank calls. Likewise, Diana would have had everyone believe that it was only Charles having affairs until those crank calls exposed one of her affairs. Even Morton was designed to preempt potential condemnation for her affairs.

I am afraid the crank calls, Raine, slapping dad etc. will be brought up to show that Diana was not the one-dimension goody that some of her fans attempt to make her out to be. She had flaws like everybody else and actually did contribute to the breakdown of her marriage (Camilla or no Camilla).

Some of the so called victims of the C&C indiscretions do not give a hoot that they married or had an affair. APB wanted to divorce to marry his mistress. They came to an agreement with Camilla and that was that. Neither of them have ever complained about their marriage, divorce or life afterwards. They get on well with each other. He is no devastated husband. The divorce was good for him because it allowed him to marry his lover.

Your statement does insinuate that William spending time with the Middletons is somehow a punishment for the sins you assign to Charles. It is not and has no basis in fact. What is true is that married men tend to spend more time with their in-laws than single men. It does not mean that William has in any way abandoned his father or denounced him. That is just a "Hail Mary" of justice for Diana.

John Major disliked Diana after the mess of panorama and the land mines. The conservatives were saying she was interfering in politics. In fact she did have a cry about it when confronted in Angola.

Double post auto-merged: October 14, 2017, 06:56:27 PM

Setting aside all the usual niceties of who done it, I am curious to know whether when John Major envisaged the separation being a short term solution in which Diana could remain separate but officially married. I once read that he had suggested that she could be crowned in due course but Parliament completely refused such a thing.

John Major never commented about Diana and the Land Mines.

Diana quietly replied to the criticism over the landmines and it is on tape. She did not cry over it.

I never said William denounced his father. But he said the complete opposite of what Charles' friend Junor did in her book when he and his brother spoke about their mother.  William clearly feels comfortable being with his in laws. What "Hail Mary" of justice. William never abandoned his father just because he likes to spend time with his in laws.

Hoare was a mistake on Diana's part. Fortunately she moved on.

All the slamming of Diana still is no proof she made threatening phone calls to Camilla. Junor must keep upping the ante in all her books that criticize Diana. Otherwise she'd just keep repeating the same criticisms over and over (her books are mostly cut and paste Diana bashing books). Again, Raine forgave Diana. ARe you disappointed that she did not sue Diana. The two made up and Raine gave an interview clearly saying she had a good relationship with Diana. She did not say that darn Diana pushing me down those steps it really justifies Charles and Camilla's behavior towards her. Raine and Diana got along.

Hoare had no business pursuing Diana. ANd yes, HE did some pursuing himself.

APB did not want to divorce because Charles blabbed about his wife being his mistress. It was an immediate reaction to start divorce proceedings. Perhaps the PBs wanted to wait. And if it were so "great" for them to divorce how come Camilla's father bawled out Charles for outing his daughter as mistress. He asked Charles what was he going to do about Camilla now. Charles did something incredibly stupid and thoughtless. I think APB could have waited to marry his girlfriend. It's not as if he were in that much of a hurry. He was named as  a cuckold. Charles might as well have said I slept with APB's wife.

Despite your repeated criticisms of Diana, Charles still married the young woman knowing he did not love her and preferred his mistress. It was wrong on his part and cruel to the besotted 19 year old girl. What sort of a man uses someone that way? And what sort of a  man thinks it "OK" to sleep with his friends' wives because he can. And the sordidness of the men being "honored" by their wives sleeping with Charles. The hypocrisy is that APB felt "honored" until Charles blabbed that APB's wife was his mistress. He was outed as the Cuckold.

Charles the sainted one (LOL) put down his first wife saying she had a simple mind (and also said this about Fergie), put her down in public,  and flaunted his mistress. The mistress crowed to Charles that Diana was a ridiculous creature that Charles should ignore. And Charles not even picking up the phone to talk to his dying former mistress Kanga Tryon. What a guy.

[amabel]

Diana did NOT move on wth Hoare.  he broke off the affair because he wanted to go back to his wife and children.  he had no real desire to end his marriage,to be with Diana.  and when he did, she chased him with phone calls until the Police intervened. How is that moving on?

[sandy]

Well Diana did move on. She moved on to Dr. Khan. She did not just stew over Hoare who was not worth the fuss IMO. He did move out on his wife while seeing Diana and he of his own volition saw Diana at her home in KP.  Diana also could not realistically have a future with the man, two divorces in two families and she would certainly have had limited access to her sons had she bolted.

My point is that yes, she did move on. She had a relationship with Dr. Khan. Hoare never pressed charges and never commented about Diana. He certainly must have realized he was not exactly an innocent himself. His wife had to share him with this other woman before he started seeing Diana. Quite a guy

There seems to be some effort to make Diana the "villain" pursuing "poor" Hoare who was a womanizer. His wife held the purse strings in the family in any case. And they are still married today. Hoare pursued Diana according to sources. And Diana (unfortunately for her critics) did not have to "pay" and serve prison time.

Diana unfortunately got to a point where she felt she needed Hoare.  His pursuing a vulnerable woman was not an admirable thing for him to do.