New Titles for the Wessexes

DaFluffs · September 20, 2022, 01:59:39 AM

Hi - I'm returning to Royal Insight after quite a few years - 5 I think?

Have the Duke/Duchess of Edinburgh titles been bestowed upon the Wessexes yet? I did not think they had. On this forum I see the names have changed but the news reports still refer to them as Duke/Duchess Wessex?

Macrobug67 · September 20, 2022, 02:04:12 AM

Hiya DaFluff! I got dragged back(screaming and kicking) by TLLK. She was rather insistant. And mean!

Nice to see you.

No word yet about the Edinburgh title. I hope soon. Edward and Sophie deserve it.

I think the title is a bit of a hope for the future.

Curryong · September 20, 2022, 02:50:49 AM

I hope the Wessexes get the Edinburgh title before the Coronation. I couldn?t see the rhyme and reason behind that imo ?fishing expedition? that appeared in the Press a few months ago where it was inferred that Edward might not get the Dukedom.

If the impetus came from CH at the time (which it may indeed have) then the conclusion came back loud and clear. The public, even the Press, were a bit puzzled by the story and believed that what had been wished for by Prince Philip and the Queen should be carried out. Was BP/CH a bit hesitant about further honours being strewn about in the wake of the Queen?s demise or was something else afoot in Charles?s mind? It was odd.

I?ve always said that when the Queen and Prince Philip announced that they wished Edward to get the Dukedom neither of them expected to live to be near a hundred years old. Edward is now in his fifties and has been an Earl in comparison to his brother Andrew and nephews William and Harry for decades now. It would be a nice gesture for Charles to hand the Dukedom over before the end of this year so no more years pass and Edward can be a Duke at his brother?s Coronation.

TLLK · September 20, 2022, 03:23:05 AM

Quote from: Macrobug67 on September 20, 2022, 02:04:12 AM
Hiya DaFluff! I got dragged back(screaming and kicking) by TLLK. She was rather insistant. And mean!

Nice to see you.

No word yet about the Edinburgh title. I hope soon. Edward and Sophie deserve it.

I think the title is a bit of a hope for the future.

Insistent...maybe. MEAN :windsor: Recollections vary. :laugh:

Macrobug67 · September 20, 2022, 03:45:59 AM

I?m still traumatized.

Amabel2 · September 20, 2022, 07:52:08 AM

\Its hardly a big deal. I imagine Charles will do it when he can, but Edward has managed to survive as Earl of Wessex for 20 odd years. Charles has a lot of stuff to get on with..
It was the queens' wish, but I'm sure she would understand that there are other priorities at times.

TLLK · September 20, 2022, 01:33:47 PM

@Amabel2 -I believe that any announcements regarding titles and working status for the working members of the BRF will be taken care of after the official mourning period for the family. I believe that there's ten more days for the family's mourning.

The Wessexes like the rest of the family need an opportunity to settle back into their lives. Nearly every working member of the family has to reschedule their cancelled engagements and overseas visits if possible.

Amabel2 · September 20, 2022, 02:25:39 PM

Probably Charles will give Ed the title within the next year, if he intends to do it. But from what Ed said at some interview in the last few years, he (Edw) does not seem all that pushed about having the Edinburgh title anyway, he referred to it as a pipe dream of his father's...
However, if Charles wishes to go ahead and give E the title as the queen wished, it will probably happen within the next year... but who knows? Maybe he may feel that to give a Scottish title isnt very tactful. or maybe he might have another reason for not wnating to give Ed that dukedom. honeslty my feeling is that the giving an earldom to a younger son wasn't a bad idea... but its up to Charles really. and Edward.

wannable · September 20, 2022, 03:07:22 PM

Perhaps revert the board name until it actually happens.

wannable · September 21, 2022, 12:28:50 PM

Strong rumor: After the coronation of HMKCIII.

Amabel2 · September 21, 2022, 03:09:51 PM

much more likely to be before. They have almost a year to do it and it only takes 5 mins.

wannable · September 21, 2022, 03:18:39 PM

Maybe, the rumour (all this after the coronation) is grouped rather than individual or paired or different subjects, IOW Edward Sophie, Sussexes children, including a parliamentary discussion of removing titles.

Allegedly the King will wait until then, whilst tackling much more important crown estate (all slimming down wherever long term viable, workable and feasible, it isn't a question of total breakdown of the 'economy' to get rid of something for example then brought back, it's a question of getting rid of something to not have to bring it back, a well thought matter per item, no one is perfect, sometimes we get rid of something, and it's brought back. He is surrounded by great financial and practical people) followed by national issues combined with Foreign (and Trade) Offices. The PPOW's will take the secondary best of both items (as has always been with the Monarch and the heir, in history)

Time will tell.

LouisFerdinand · November 17, 2022, 09:11:24 PM

Are Edward and Sophie using the full title of The Earl and Countess of Wessex and Forfar?

Curryong · November 17, 2022, 10:13:58 PM

My understanding is that Forfar is only used when the Wessexes are in Scotland, just like the rest of the senior (male) royals in the BRF use their secondary Ducal titles, which are almost always Scottish ones. As we?ve discussed here before, the late Queen and PP expected Edward to be Duke of Edinburgh long before he was in his mid fifties, so the Queen gave him Forfar as an extra Earldom for use north of the border when it became clear that she would be a very long-lived monarch.

wannable · November 19, 2022, 03:26:03 PM

Charles 'TEARS UP Queen's wedding day pledge to make Prince Edward the Duke of Edinburgh': Palace sources say Earl of Wessex WON'T get his late father's title 'because it would pass down to his son James and ruin King's hopes for slimmed-down monarchy'
The new King is set to tear up the pledge handed to Prince Edward by the Queen and Prince Philip in 1999
'It wouldn't make sense to make the Earl the Duke of Edinburgh' as the King plans a 'slim down', a source said
That also means Sophie Wessex misses out on becoming Duchess of Edinburgh, breaking wedding promise
A Buckingham Palace spokesman tonight declined to comment on the reported U-turn

Richard Eden
@richardaeden
#KingCharles tears up his parents' promise to Prince Edward.

Amabel2 · November 19, 2022, 03:45:00 PM

Evidence for this? Palace sources dont mean anything.

wannable · November 19, 2022, 04:07:13 PM

Media exerting pressure?!

Anyway, IMO if by April 2026 if there is no upgrade from Earl to Duke, I'd say it is panned. That's giving 5 years from the death of Prince Philip.

Amabel2 · November 19, 2022, 04:24:48 PM

what pressure could be exerted by the Media? I doubt if Charles will wait that long, anyway. I think that there is doubt in the RF about the Edinburgh title and that Edward is not all that bothered about getting it. He may feel that there are big shoes to feill or there may be a feeling that a Scottish Royal dukedom wont go down well in Scotland.

Curryong · November 19, 2022, 09:28:08 PM

Quote from: wannable on November 19, 2022, 03:26:03 PM
Charles 'TEARS UP Queen's wedding day pledge to make Prince Edward the Duke of Edinburgh': Palace sources say Earl of Wessex WON'T get his late father's title 'because it would pass down to his son James and ruin King's hopes for slimmed-down monarchy'
The new King is set to tear up the pledge handed to Prince Edward by the Queen and Prince Philip in 1999
'It wouldn't make sense to make the Earl the Duke of Edinburgh' as the King plans a 'slim down', a source said
That also means Sophie Wessex misses out on becoming Duchess of Edinburgh, breaking wedding promise
A Buckingham Palace spokesman tonight declined to comment on the reported U-turn

Richard Eden
@richardaeden
#KingCharles tears up his parents' promise to Prince Edward.

I?m sorry, but if the above is really what Richard Eden believes then he is believing absolute hogwash. The Dukes of Kent and Gloucester are (for the time being) working royals. When has it ever been stated or believed that Charles or the late Queen expected that their eldest sons and heirs would join the roster of working royals? (And btw, the Dukedom of Gloucester is a darn sight older than any of the other royal dukedoms, including Edinburgh. It?s a shame, for historical reasons that this dukedom is going away from the RF.)

Charles wants a slimmed down monarchy for economic and PR reasons, but discouraging James from inheriting the Dukedom wouldn't come into it. My opinion is that he either has decided for his own emotional reasons that Papa?s title should remain with his dead father, or, that a dukedom of Edinburgh might well become an embarrassment for the RF and especially for himself and William as King should Scotland break away in the future.

Remember, Edward is still a man in his fifties. He could live for another forty years or more with a Dukedom that could cause offence over the border. We don?t know whether in another forty years even the title of Prince of Wales might cause the same reactions in Wales.

So like I said, there may be a mixture of reasons, sentimental and practical behind the decision not to award the Dukedom yet. And really, for all we know Charles may be saving it as a pre Coronation goody for his brother and sister in law. He might, but somehow I don?t think so!

sara8150 · November 19, 2022, 10:58:27 PM

King 'tears up Queen's pledge to hand Duke of Edinburgh title to Prince Edward' in slim down effort | Daily Mail Online

King Charles 'rips up Queen and Philip's plan for Edward to be Duke of Edinburgh' - Mirror Online

Prince Edward 'to miss out on becoming Duke of Edinburgh as part of King Charles's plans for a trimmed down monarchy' | The Sun

?No surprise? at King?s choice of Duke of Edinburgh ? Royal Central

How Prince Philip became Duke of Edinburgh ? Royal Central
Unfair but Prince Edward would taking inherit of Duke of Edinburgh after Prince Philip?s death in 2021 but torch to James per dailymail says but King Charles says Earl and Countess of Wessex and Forfar remain titles not yet change titles but King Charles follow late Queen Elizabeth II and King George VI examples but Buckingham Palace decline comment it?s private matters

sara8150 · November 19, 2022, 11:14:04 PM

King 'tears up Queen's pledge to hand Duke of Edinburgh title to Prince Edward' in slim down effort | Daily Mail Online

King Charles 'rips up Queen and Philip's plan for Edward to be Duke of Edinburgh' - Mirror Online

Prince Edward 'to miss out on becoming Duke of Edinburgh as part of King Charles's plans for a trimmed down monarchy' | The Sun

?No surprise? at King?s choice of Duke of Edinburgh ? Royal Central

How Prince Philip became Duke of Edinburgh ? Royal Central
Unfair but Prince Edward would taking inherit of Duke of Edinburgh after Prince Philip?s death in 2021 but torch to James per dailymail says but King Charles says Earl and Countess of Wessex and Forfar remain titles not yet change titles but King Charles follow late Queen Elizabeth II and King George VI examples but Buckingham Palace decline comment it?s private matters

LouisFerdinand · November 20, 2022, 09:36:30 PM

Does the monarchy really need to be slimmed down?

Curryong · November 21, 2022, 12:13:13 AM

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on November 20, 2022, 09:36:30 PM
Does the monarchy really need to be slimmed down?

Charles feels it does, and in bad economic times it?s good optics not to have too many people living in Crown properties and receiving money from the Sovereign Grant or from the Duchies of Lancaster or Cornwall. There have always been moans from the comments sections of tabloids and that ilk about ?freeloaders? on the balcony at Trooping. Many British still think all royals are on the public purse.

All that is great in theory. However for a country that still has a Commonwealth that needs to be visited every now and again, especially the realms, and three countries in the UK to cover it will be interesting to see how it works out.

This is a slimmed down monarchy that still has people in their eighties working for it, (the Kents) and also quite a few (the sovereign, his consort, Princess Anne, the Gloucesters) who are well into their seventies. What happens if any or all of them become incapacitated after the Kents retire? Say the Gloucesters and Camilla? I do not think that Camilla has a strong physical constitution or a huge capacity to work. JMO, but it?s based on past observance. And the Gloucesters are well into their seventies already. (I?m of the same age and there is no way I would want to be taking on a hundred or more engagements a year.)

In a worst case scenario the monarchy in the next ten years could well be left with a very elderly monarch, his equally elderly sister and four middle aged people, the Wales?s, who probably will not want to fulfil hundreds of engagements a year (especially Kate) with a still young family, and the underwhelming Wessexes. Welcome to the 21st century style BRF, folks!

wannable · November 21, 2022, 12:29:08 PM

Some RR's agree with my assessment of several conservative media outlets in the UK exerting pressure in Reference to the Duke of Edinburgh title.

Just when King Charles has given Edward a counsellor of state member, Sophie a first for a British Royal to visit the Congo, a first for the couple to represent His Majesty at the Royal Variety Performance. IOW, Charles is spreading duties and responsibilities that were previously exclusive to the monarch or the heir, heir to the heir in the past.

Curryong · November 21, 2022, 08:46:32 PM

Quote from: wannable on November 21, 2022, 12:29:08 PM
Some RR's agree with my assessment of several conservative media outlets in the UK exerting pressure in Reference to the Duke of Edinburgh title.

Just when King Charles has given Edward a counsellor of state member, Sophie a first for a British Royal to visit the Congo, a first for the couple to represent His Majesty at the Royal Variety Performance. IOW, Charles is spreading duties and responsibilities that were previously exclusive to the monarch or the heir, heir to the heir in the past.

Well, of course he is using them in that way. What choice does he have? With the Queen, Andrew and the Sussexes gone, who is Charles going to send on a few less important overseas trips (the Congo for example has never been close to Britain, not in the Commonwealth, once a Belgian possession) or to the Royal Variety Performance which lost its importance to ordinary Brits about fifty years ago, if he or the Wales?s can?t (don?t want) to go? The Gloucesters, an elderly couple hardly any ordinary Briton knows? Or the Kents, ancient and ditto?