[mod]Old thread here : Prince William To Take To the Skies Again (http://www.royalinsight.net/forum/index.php?topic=70743.msg1296889#msg1296889)
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Please continue my lovelies.... :computer:
The Sequel! :happy15:
Just like the Omen! :devil: :hehe: Part 54.
:hehe:
You know, I'm wondering why William (and his advisors) thought it would be a good idea for him to sign a two year contract to do this thing (the two years beginning after he completes his training). If anything happens to his grandmother, he'll have to step up to his royal duties, and wouldn't be able to honor that contract.
Quote from: Lothwen on August 12, 2014, 04:53:29 AM
You know, I'm wondering why William (and his advisors) thought it would be a good idea for him to sign a two year contract to do this thing (the two years beginning after he completes his training). If anything happens to his grandmother, he'll have to step up to his royal duties, and wouldn't be able to honor that contract.
Since when has William allowed contracts or anything of that nature stop him from cutting and running?
^ Exactly! The advisors are just expected to clear up his mess.
I would assume there would be some clause allowing him out of the contract if he became Prince of Wales, or because it is such a small time frame they are assuming or hoping there will be no drastic changes in 2yrs.
He's going to avoid full time royal duties for as long as he can. I think that's the bottom line for him.
He will probably avoid full time royal duties for as long as he possibly can, i.e. most likely until he becomes Prince of Wales. At which point he will have to assume responsibility. Until then I think he will complete one more tour of duty, indulge in his love of flying and avoiding the media/royal role and pick up a few really high profile events throughout the duration of tour.. Just enough so that he is not seen to be doing nothing. Catherine will hopefully show herself occasionally but I would imagine the same amount as up until now, investitures, tree planting (lol), joint events with HM, DoE, PW, DoC etc. I think they will have a happy addition in Amber Hall and that, along with George will be their only focus for the next two and a half years. I'll be surprised if there are any holidays, apart from the wedding in Italy. I think they are going to try and keep the positive momentum of him donating salary etc going for as long as they can and that the powers that be will try and prevent any skirt incidences.
I have a feeling that even as PoW he will avoid work at all costs. He just doesn't want to it seems. He would rather take the money/privilege and run than actually take up his responsibilities.
Quote from: Lady DC on August 13, 2014, 03:25:08 AM
He will probably avoid full time royal duties for as long as he possibly can, i.e. most likely until he becomes Prince of Wales. At which point he will have to assume responsibility. Until then I think he will complete one more tour of duty, indulge in his love of flying and avoiding the media/royal role and pick up a few really high profile events throughout the duration of tour.. Just enough so that he is not seen to be doing nothing. Catherine will hopefully show herself occasionally but I would imagine the same amount as up until now, investitures, tree planting (lol), joint events with HM, DoE, PW, DoC etc. I think they will have a happy addition in Amber Hall and that, along with George will be their only focus for the next two and a half years. I'll be surprised if there are any holidays, apart from the wedding in Italy. I think they are going to try and keep the positive momentum of him donating salary etc going for as long as they can and that the powers that be will try and prevent any skirt incidences.
He is getting more and more comfortable in avoidance mode. It will be very difficult for him to step up full time and he will come up with a new set of excuses.
I see families that have interests and though the live for the children and are devoted they don't avoid work "concentrating" on the children.
Oh I think William and Kate will have their holidays after their hard work concentrating on George and her being a housewife.
I am still an eternal optimist. I was always an avid fan of the pair of them, but even the biggest fans cannot deny that they have wasted the positive press from the wedding and the birth of Prince George and have only done the bare minimum required.
I think William is conflicted. He has spent so much of his life being the anti prince, hiding whenever possible that even though he seemed to be doing okay stepping it up a bit recently, he wants to retreat again for another little while. While I don't agree with this, at least he is donating the salary to a charity (yes I know this is damage control). Yes the job could have gone to someone else who truly deserved it etc... It hasn't so at least look at it as a free air ambulance pilot. I can think of far worse he could be doing with his time. As for "Her Highness" I do think that the palace must control a certain amount of what she does and doesn't do. I don't think that they are going to make her very prominent until William becomes Prince of Wales. I think that they will continue to allow the Queens children; Prince Charles (Camilla), Edward (Sophie) and Anne (Andrew is a disaster) do the majority of things until Prince Philip or Her Majesty passes away. When Prince Charles takes over, it is fairly certain he will be streamlining the monarchy in a massive way and it is only then that I think it is really necessary for William and Kate to step up because no one else will be wanted by Charles.
I don't think Catherine minds this at all might I add. She is able to live in the country side, play with George, make dinners and do whatever it is that she does all day. It is highly unlikely that the palace is completely unaware of what people are saying about her lack of work ethic. I think they don't care. When Camilla was being criticised for the same- she was promptly put out to work. They will send Catherine off to Malta, hopefully she will not have a skirt moment and will smile. That is all that is being asked of her so far- "Show your face every so often and look nice. And please don't flash the press. Good girl."
Even the biggest naysayers cannot deny that anyone involved in a charity that she has visited, or anyone who has met her really, says she is kind, warm.. and wants world peace etc. Yes I am equating her to a beauty queen because everything she does is for show, is rehearsed and I think that is the way the palace want it. Even though she ends up in most papers (generally talking about her outfit mind you) after an event, that is sufficient. She is in no way outshining William. In fact, I think that he is able to get away with doing so little ONLY because so is she. If she were out saving the world every day, people would be very quick to ask- Where's Wally? Oh sorry- Where's William.
:)
I think he's selective. He likes the perks and privileges of being a Prince but he does not like the work involved. He is only the anti prince when it comes to the work.
He could do so much more and could have been charitable to a young man who could really have used the job. In essence he'd "give" his salary to someone who needs the money. I see him as self serving.
Why should his Aunt have to do William's work for him while he hides out?
Kate still does the minimum
It is insulting to couples who do work and raise great children to have these lazy loafers use their baby as an excuse not to do full time work. Pathetic actually.
What is with "outshining" william. To me that's totally irrelevant since William obviously does not want to do royal work in the first place.
So William laziness keeps Kate from working. The honeymoon with the two loafers and the media is starting to be over and if the two keep up the laziness the criticism will get louder.
I don't disagree with you that he is selective but I think it is more to do with the fact that he only wishes to be involved with certain charities and causes. I don't think he enjoys the more "pomp and ceremony" occasions, such as investitures etc. I do think that there are plenty of charities that he cares about and that if he could be involved in them without the medias attention he probably would do more. He is not shy about the fact that he detests their presence and will do all he can to avoid it. Yes it comes with the job but I think that for as long as he can, he will try and remain as private as possible.
As for the Air Ambulance- at least he is using the valuable training that was put into him. I don't do equations usually and will not go on about this at length but at least he is not Harry- who trained as an apache pilot, costing millions, and is now sitting at a desk. William will at least be providing a valuable service to the community and he is doing it free of charge. Yes there are others who could have used the job but to be fair, anyone who is qualified to fly an air ambulance, will probably find a job suitable. It is a highly specialised skill. I think it is self serving that he is not taking over more responsibility from his grand parents but I don't think that the new job is a bad thing. It is a very noble profession and he is young enough to actually do something noble with the training he has received.
Anne is not necessarily doing Williams work. She is the Queens daughter. She was born into this just as much as William. The only difference really is that she decided not to style her children HRH, which is why they are able to lead normal lives. Anne is the child of the reigning monarch, William is not. I know that at his age etc he should be doing more but at least, like I said, he is using the training he received for something that will benefit others.
As for Kate and the minimum, I'd say she has about as much control over her schedule as you or I do. I do think she should show more initiative and get out to the few patronages she does have but until she is the Princess of Wales, I don't think the palace will want her to. Whenever she sets foot outside the door she is in every tabloid and that would only emphasise that William is not visiting all of his charities.
If William wants the monarchy abolished, he will not commence working when he becomes POW. The republicans will win and that will be that. I don't that he wants the monarchy abolished. I think he is biding his time for as long as possible. I have faith he will step up- but not until he absolutely has to.
DC you make some good and sensible points. You are probably right that until William does more royal duties they will not allow Kate to eclipse him, even if his new job is kinda sorta charity work. This is one reason I was disappointed to hear he was taking this job, it essentially means Kate will spend the next 2 years how she spent the past 3, doing very little. Though it is not the job people wanted William to do he is still providing a service, and anyone who does that should be admired. For me I admire him even more because he doesn't have to do this. Rich people who work normal jobs just gives me hope for the world.....Don't ask why.
He has to do something to justify not becoming a full time royal. I am just glad that he is doing something that uses the skills he spent so many years training. It may not be a full time royal position but at least it is something noble and worth while.
As for Kate- I think this suits her perfectly. She will be more than happy to spend this time focusing on being a good little house wife. Yes it gives the Anti Kate Brigade a justifiable reason to criticise her but I don't think this bothers William. He does not care what the media say. Some may argue that this means he does not care about Kate but I don't think this is the case. I personally think he wants to play normal until such a point that he really can't, unless he abdicates.
People were hoping for a new Diana, myself included. Someone who was the Peoples Princess and spends a huge amount of time with their chosen charities but they both married into completely different roles. Diana was married to the heir, Kate is with the heir to the heir. They don't have to do the same amount of work as the Prince and Princess of Wales until they are in that role themselves. At least William isn't doing a few ribbon cuttings here and there and nothing else but trips to Mustique with the Middletons. He will actually be out saving lives which is a far better use of his time. Kate can hardly go out get a normal job, we saw how well that worked for Sophie and she was under far less scrutiny than Kate. So instead she will stay in the shadows until such a time they are both full time royals.
He will be saving lives, yes, but it is not a job only he can do, it is a job many people can do who need that salary because they don't have a daddy to support them so they don't have to dig into their millions and his job could support that and many other charities if he dedicated as much time to supporting them as he does to flying. He has a job, an important job that would involve more than shaking hands, but who is he that shaking hands is beneath him when the Queen who is smarter and more busy than him does it frequently as it is his and her duty? He isn't Einstein or an overactive dynamo... Then, there is the Prince's Trust and the Duchy, about which there is more to learn, when he did not study either politics, agriculture or land management or anything similarly useful for his position, the position he knows is his duty and which he gladly takes money from to pay his bills, which is something he, in his thirties, should not still be postponing for years while reaping the benefits. Anyone who has worked at a large corporation knows, you can't attend one or two meetings with daddy and then say when I get sick of flying I'll see what I can learn. William's life is absurd... His choices lack meaning and focus and his work priorities are not based on his reality, on his position. He has been there and done that, and not moving forward yet, at this stage, makes him look like Peter Pan.
QuoteHe will be saving lives, yes, but it is a it a job only he can do, it is a job, many people can do who need that salary because they don't have a daddy to support them so they don't have to dig into their millions. Further, he has a job, an important job that would involve more than shaking hands, but who is he that shaking hands is beneath him when the Queen who is smarter and more busy than him does it frequently as it is his and her duty?
Is Harry's job something only he can do? I'm sure many people can do Harry's job that actually need that salary because they don't have a daddy to support them so they don't have to dig into their millions. Harry has been receiving money from his trust fund since the age of 25 and will get the full 10 million in September.
Shouldn't Harry be using his global popularity and resources full-time for the good of the monarchy and his charities instead of
trying to play normal serving in the army and working part-time as a royal
I'll never take the criticisms against William seriously until they get applied across the board consistently and before anyone says well William is the future king, they key word here is
future. Since there is no role for the 2nd in line, William is carving one out for himself. Performing public service while continuing with his charities is a fresh approach to 21st century monarchy.
I can't quite get my mind around people slating William for flying an air ambulance for charity and yet praise Harry for sitting behind a desk in Whitehall organising ceremonial events.
PoP, respectfully, you are always presenting the argument that Willian is *not* the heir, which is why he can't be compared to other Crown Prince & Princesses.
Harry is not even the heir-to-the-heir, or the heir-to-the-heir-to-the-heir.
So why are you comparing his workload to William? William, not Harry, is the future Head of State, and should be preparing for it.
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on August 14, 2014, 03:38:12 PM
QuoteHe will be saving lives, yes, but it is a it a job only he can do, it is a job, many people can do who need that salary because they don't have a daddy to support them so they don't have to dig into their millions. Further, he has a job, an important job that would involve more than shaking hands, but who is he that shaking hands is beneath him when the Queen who is smarter and more busy than him does it frequently as it is his and her duty?
Is Harry's job something only he can do? I'm sure many people can do Harry's job that actually need that salary because they don't have a daddy to support them so they don't have to dig into their millions. Harry has been receiving money from his trust fund since the age of 25 and will get the full 10 million in September.
Shouldn't Harry be using his global popularity and resources full-time for the good of the monarchy and his charities instead of
trying to play normal serving in the army and working part-time as a royal
I'll never take the criticisms against William seriously until they get applied across the board consistently and before anyone says well William is the future king, they key word here is future. Since there is no role for the 2nd in line, William is carving one out for himself. Performing public service while continuing with his charities is a fresh approach to 21st century monarchy.
I can't quite get my mind around people slating William for flying an air ambulance for charity and yet praise Harry for sitting behind a desk in Whitehall organising ceremonial events.
:goodpost: Fantastic post, PrincessofPeace!
No, Harry should be living his life and helping out as he does, William in his thirties should be living HIS LIFE which is as Charles heir learning the ropes of what he is to do instead of postponing it endlessly because he refuses to grow up and learn earnestly and full time about his future role still.
What does Prince Harry have to do with William, Canuck and PoP, is Harry going to be King as well, can you defend William on his own, or must you always use the non heir to explain why the heir should be excused from doing his duty indefinitely? That is like using an lemon to explain why it is alright for an orange to be sour... Harry, like all other members of the royal family not expecting to be called King IS normal, they all are, and they all help while living their lives, because no one but William has an actual job they are neglecting and know little about. Let me know when Harry becomes the heir and when Harry is the one to be inheriting the responsibilities for a a Duchy and a Trust he knows precious little about. I'll be waiting right here....
I think PoP already explained that quite well, Limabeany:
Quote
I'll never take the criticisms against William seriously until they get applied across the board consistently and before anyone says well William is the future king, they key word here is future. Since there is no role for the 2nd in line, William is carving one out for himself. Performing public service while continuing with his charities is a fresh approach to 21st century monarchy.
In other words: yes, William is the heir. But at this point, he's in the somewhat unique position of being second in line to the throne while being an adult, which isn't something that's happened all that often. There isn't a defined role for what he should be doing. And right now, he and Harry aren't in all that different a position, though you're quite right that Will should be learning about his future role (and he is, obviously by attending Duchy meetings, taking the land management course, etc.). When HM passes on and Charles becomes King, both Will and Harry will become full-time Royals. Until then, they are both performing public service and doing part-time Royal duty. That seems perfectly sensible to me.
I think it is incomprehensible to say that it is great that a man in his thirties with a very complex job he will be inheriting involving the management and decision making in two large enterprises is not involved at this time in fully immersing himself in learning this which will take him years to learn and which will be his responsibility for years to come, he is an asset to no one hiding in the country side, he is doing nothing others cannot do. The only thing I see on PoP and your posts is that you believe everyone else should work full time royal duties before William is expected to, William has a job that is different thatch the rest, and a full time job at that, Harry is expected to help but also to have his own path and he is doing that, William HAS A PATH that he is ignoring and neglecting with the blessing of his fans. Harry is in a different position he doesn't have a Duchy and a Trust he will be involved in and of which he knows very little... There is no need for William to wait for Charles to die or to drag Harry along, Harry can perform more duties in the future but he does not have to become a full time royal if he does not wish to immediately upon the Queen's death, William does. Harry and William, as much as William's fans ride on Harry to excuse William's lack of involvement, are not the same. William and his son will be King and Harry and his children will not.
Quote from: Canuck on August 14, 2014, 04:05:24 PM
I think PoP already explained that quite well, Limabeany:
Quote
I'll never take the criticisms against William seriously until they get applied across the board consistently and before anyone says well William is the future king, they key word here is future. Since there is no role for the 2nd in line, William is carving one out for himself. Performing public service while continuing with his charities is a fresh approach to 21st century monarchy.
In other words: yes, William is the heir. But at this point, he's in the somewhat unique position of being second in line to the throne while being an adult, which isn't something that's happened all that often. There isn't a defined role for what he should be doing. And right now, he and Harry aren't in all that different a position, though you're quite right that Will should be learning about his future role (and he is, obviously by attending Duchy meetings, taking the land management course, etc.). When HM passes on and Charles becomes King, both Will and Harry will become full-time Royals. Until then, they are both performing public service and doing part-time Royal duty. That seems perfectly sensible to me.
Thanks Canuck. You stated this better than I ever could :thumbsup:
One difference between William and Harry is that William will have a lot of managers in place to help him with the Duchy of Cornwall, which he will inherit at some point in the future. Harry will have to find a way to manage his own estate. I would suggest he needs to take management courses more than William does, because he might not have his inheritance diversified and he will have big expenses in the future. We know nothing about how Diana's money has been invested, I don't think. I know his money has been well-managed so far. At any rate, Harry will have to be more hands-on with his money.
Anyway, Harry will depend on William's Duchies when he does his royal duties, so he won't be living entirely on his own. And if he has a place in London and a large estate in the country (as all the children of the Queen have) he will need support. I don't think he has enough money for a country estate on his own--those places gobble money. For example, Bagshot Park, which is enormous for a family of 4, is owned by the Crown Estate, and has had millions of pounds in renovations. Edward pays a nominal rent, and in return he and Sophie perform lots of royal duties.
I think the brothers have always been close, and will continue to be. I don't believe there is competition or rivalry between the two.
Great points Rebound! :)
I've often said that the Duchy is run by Managers...it is and always wil be. So what is the point of William? We keep being told that he is learning the ropes? Is he really? What was the 10 week course all about? Time with a Special Friend maybe.
Of course the Duchy is run by managers, but the PoW is the one who directs their work. Charles has had an enormous effect on how the Duchy is run.
I would think that the Oxford course William took was aimed at taking the big picture. In other words, how to make the big decisions, taking other investments in mind, and with an eye toward the future. Of course I don't know how it was designed, but I imagine other people taking that course as well would be other owners and/or managers of very large and diversified properties. I'm picturing possibly investment managers moving up to larger properties, or other children of owners of large properties; properties to include significant buildings in London and other cities, diversified investments, and other farms and estates. These are the people who want bespoke information and NO publicity.
William is the heir to the the heir. William will be running the Duchy when HM passes, William has put in negligible effort into learning to do this versus flying helicopters. Harry is not the heir. Harry does not need to be financially supported by William as he will be independently wealthy on his own, most likely will be supported in exchange for royal duties, but doesn't need it, with the trimmed down Monarchy, William will need him more than the other way around. William does not and has not spent a significant amount studying for the role he should already be assuming and the benefits of which he enjoys, Harry is not the heir and will not be the heir because his fans equate his life to William's to explain why they think William should not be helping his father full time or learning about his role, full time, until HM passes.
Quote from: Canuck on August 14, 2014, 09:12:54 PM
Of course the Duchy is run by managers, but the PoW is the one who directs their work. Charles has had an enormous effect on how the Duchy is run.
Absolutely. William having a firm grasp of the duchy's operations will allow him to hit the ground running when he becomes Duke of Cornwall. I believe this is why Charles insists on William taking part in Prince's Council meetings and taking a hands on approach by visiting the various farms and estates on the duchy and by enrolling in the agricultural management course at Cambridge.
QuoteThe current Duke is actively involved in running the Duchy and his philosophy is to improve the estate and pass it on to future Dukes in a stronger and better condition. The Prince of Wales takes a long-term stewardship approach and has proved that environmental and agricultural best practice are compatible with a sound financial return. The Duchy capital account has increased from £408m to £763m since 2004, and the surplus has increased £9.9m to £19m over the same period.
The "board" of the Duchy is The Prince's Council, which meets twice a year and is chaired by His Royal Highness. With the exception of the Secretary and Keeper of the Records, The Prince's Council is a non-executive body which provides advice to His Royal Highness with regard to the management of the Duchy.
Frequently Asked Questions | The Duchy of Cornwall (http://duchyofcornwall.org/frequently-asked-questions.html#question_3)
There is no evidence William knows anything that would make him anything more than an accessory to Charles like Kate is to him. So. Charles is actively involved and William only knows where it is located, basically...
Just my opinion, but I find it difficult to believe that Charles, as hard as he has worked to get the Duchy to where it is today, would be content to know that when William takes it over, it could all go downhill because of lack of training. Nor to I believe William would be content with that.
Cindy
And, yet, he has spent his entire adulthood so far as a pilot, doing very few royal duties and learning little else, unless Charles is planning to let William run around until William decides to join the royal ranks full time not only as an expense but as a worker.
The agricultural management course at Cambridge really makes sense. The course William took was run by the Cambridge Programme for Sustainability Leadership (CPSL) which has 25 years experience of teaching senior executives from multi-national firms, development banks and government agencies.
Not coincidently Prince Charles is also Patron of the Cambridge Programme for Sustainability Leadership (CPSL) and has been involved with it for over 20 years and knows better than anyone what it offers and how it will benefit William in the future.
This just wasn't some random thing William decided to do, its all part of Charles and William preparing for the future.
QuoteHRH The Prince of Wales is the Patron of the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership (CISL) and is actively involved in a range of our work. CISL is also a member of The Prince's Charities, a group of not-for-profit organisations of which His Royal Highness is President.
More: CISL's Patron: HRH The Prince of Wales (http://www.cisl.cam.ac.uk/About-Us/Patron.aspx)
QuoteThe University of Cambridge Programme for Sustainability Leadership (CPSL) is an institution within the School of Technology of the University of Cambridge and is dedicated to working with leaders from business, government and civil society on the critical global challenges of the 21st Century.
CPSL contributes to the University's mission and leadership position in the field of sustainability via a mix of executive programmes and business platforms, informed by world-class thinking and research from the University of Cambridge and other partners.
HRH The Prince of Wales is CPSL's Patron and is actively involved in a range of our work. HRH has founded two significant initiatives: The Prince of Wales's Business and Sustainability Programme and The Prince of Wales's Corporate Leaders Group on Climate Change.
More: University of Cambridge Programme for Sustainability Leadership (CPSL) (http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/the-prince-of-wales/the-princes-charities/university-of-cambridge-programme-sustainability)
Continuing to fly definitely is not well thought out and there is no evidence he attended this course more than a few times or took anything from it.
Quote from: cinrit on August 14, 2014, 10:29:23 PM
Just my opinion, but I find it difficult to believe that Charles, as hard as he has worked to get the Duchy to where it is today, would be content to know that when William takes it over, it could all go downhill because of lack of training. Nor to I believe William would be content with that.
Completely agreed.
There have been multiple newspaper articles stating that Will completed the Cambridge course, in addition to which I find it entirely unbelievable that Will managed to just skip most of the course without a single student or journalist ever mentioning it. I think that the course was, as PoP says, carefully chosen with Charles' full approval, that Will in all likelihood learned quite a bit from it, and that Will is continuing to learn from his father and the Duchy's advisors.
The media has said he completed the course because the time for the course passed not because they have any evidence of this.
PoP, thanks for the information about CISL and CPSL. It's good to know those programs exist for corporations (and others) interested in sustainability. This is one area where I really admire Charles. He has had a big influence and has been a real leader. I think he has increased corporations' awareness and interest, and that can only be a good thing for all of us.
Quote from: Limabeany on August 14, 2014, 11:47:38 PM
The media has said he completed the course because the time for the course passed not because they have any evidence of this.
Is there any evidence that's the reason they said it, or is that just speculation? I would wager they said it because the BRF's media office, in providing information to the press about Will's new position, included that as background information. In which case, I don't think they would have flat-out lied to the press about something that they could be contradicted on by professors, fellow students, leaks from RPOs, etc.
The only speculation is in saying he completed the course.
That's certainly no more speculative than the idea that he just didn't go to the course he was officially announced to be attending.
He was only photographed, seen or even reported to be seen at the beginning, it is speculation that he attended even though he was never reported to be seen in campus or even heading there or on the train at any other time, by students, passersby or media, so to say he attended full time despite no reports that he was seen there after the first week or two is speculation. This is a campus with a lot of people and there were plenty of media interested in him, many opportunities for articles on what he wore to school and on the students to comment and post pictures on Twitter or other social media about attending school or seeing the future King, but not a word from anyone ever after those few first days. Until it is proven he attended full time the 8 weeks he was not abroad after the few first days, there is no evidence thus it is speculative and based on the announced duration of the course and not his attendance record or even any sighting by students.
That's your opinion, Limabeany. I'm just pointing out that it's every bit as speculative as Will having finished the course as announced.
:truce: Perhaps, it was distance learning after the first week... :shrug: After seeing what he had to do to get there and then walk on campus and attend the classes, I cannot believe he attended regularly and was never seen by even one student who bragged or complained on social media about him for 8 weeks.
He was still attending on 26Feb: Twitter / BBCCambs: Third sighting of Prince William ... (https://twitter.com/BBCCambs/status/438595595675394049)
Exactly, he attended a few times, just not regularly.
Or maybe the media just got bored of taking picture after picture after picture of William leaving the train and walking to class. I could imagine the same old photo would eventually get monotonous. You're right about people on campus not tweeting or posting about him being there, but I suspect they would have been more likely to tweet and post if he
weren't there. There was a bit of flap when the class was first announced, when some students claimed that he was only being allowed to take the class because of who he is. I would think that those students would have been more than happy to make it public if William had not finished the class at all. But ... not a word from them.
QuoteWilliam has faced some anger over the decision to allow him to be admitted with an A, B and C in his A-levels – grades described as mediocre by the university newspaper. Some students claimed William was getting a free pass and said it gave the impression that he was accepted because he was ‘posh and rich’.
Prince William dons suit and tie on train home from Cambridge university course | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2535182/Ones-student-Prince-William-takes-train-Cambridge-begin-university-agriculture-course.html)
Cindy
He is the future King, they would hardly not have mentioned him at all anywhere if he had been attending for two months. The students that complained, complained about him not being up to par with the admission requirements and not about his attendance. The fact that no student, friend or foe said anything says that there was nothing to say because he wasn't there. Out of sight, out of mind. It is more likely that they assumed individually that they didn't see him or missed him, but from the outside, one can tell NO ONE saw him...
I tend to disagree with your assessment of the Feb 26 tweet, but I'm not saying that to tell you that you're wrong, just to make it clear to any third-parties/lurkers that I did not post that in support of the theory that he never attended class.
Double post auto-merged: August 15, 2014, 11:48:07 AM
Quote from: cinrit on August 15, 2014, 11:38:23 AM
Or maybe the media just got bored of taking picture after picture after picture of William leaving the train and walking to class. I could imagine the same old photo would eventually get monotonous. You're right about people on campus not tweeting or posting about him being there, but I suspect they would have been more likely to tweet and post if he weren't there. There was a bit of flap when the class was first announced, when some students claimed that he was only being allowed to take the class because of who he is. I would think that those students would have been more than happy to make it public if William had not finished the class at all. But ... not a word from them.
QuoteWilliam has faced some anger over the decision to allow him to be admitted with an A, B and C in his A-levels – grades described as mediocre by the university newspaper. Some students claimed William was getting a free pass and said it gave the impression that he was accepted because he was 'posh and rich'.
Prince William dons suit and tie on train home from Cambridge university course | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2535182/Ones-student-Prince-William-takes-train-Cambridge-begin-university-agriculture-course.html)
Cindy
Yeah, for other royals (Kate) I've seen the claim that if they were out in public frequently, the press would be less intrusive because they'd get bored. And for still other royals (Beatrice) the fact that they're never photographed going to work is taken as evidence that they do go to work so frequently that the press has gotten bored. So I dunno. But absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, as they say in the science world.
The student newspaper at Cambridge actually got into some trouble right when Will started the course by saying it was going to hold a contest for people taking pictures of him on campus. The school made it cancel that because it was deemed a security issue to be telling students they should follow Will around trying to get pictures of everywhere he went. Perhaps that's why there weren't more pictures of him on campus.
Or perhaps, as others say, people stopped taking them after a while. We don't see pictures of Harry arriving to work every morning, after all...
QuoteWe don't see pictures of Harry arriving to work every morning, after all...
Not even one time have we seen Harry either arriving at work or leaving in the 8 months he's supposedly been working full-time at Whitehall.
Ah, yes, dragging Harry in defense of William... :happy15: What took so long? And, yet the Invictus Games speak for him, is there any work related activity that speaks for William?
The Invictus Games is not Harry's job at Whitehall though...
I'm not trying to make Harry look bad -- I think that he does go into the office, even if not every single day. My point is just that it seems like Will is the only Royal people refuse to believe is doing something unless there is photographic proof of every single minute of it. As Harry, Beatrice, and others demonstrate, the absence of daily pictures does not mean that he isn't still going to work or class every day.
Harry is not the heir-to-the-heir, or the heir-to-the-heir-to-the-heir. Beatrice will never see the throne.
So why are you comparing their workload to William? William, not Harry (and certainly not Beatrice), is the future Head of State, and should be preparing for it.
William's job as future king includes photographs. Like HM says: she must be seen to be believed.
Harry and Beatrice and everyone else who is not the heir to the heir and who will not be King and Queen can do as they please as they don't have a job waiting for them for all the nation to see with responsibilities and duties to the nation they should be preparing for, as William does. Comparing William's actions to others who do not have to prepare for the responsibilities Willia, will have is creating a parallel universe where William does not live but they do.
William enrolled at Cambridge and various news outlets report that he finished the course. Its not up to me or anyone else to 'prove' this.
If you're stating he didn't finish the course or hardly attended then present your evidence. The burden of proof is on you to prove he didn't attend.
Evidence, he was rarely seen in a school with thousands of students which he allegedly attended for 8 weeks. Now present yours that he was there for 8 weeks straight. Media reporting he completed it because the time has run out is not evidence that he completed just that it finished.
I'm not comparing their workload, I'm saying that Will isn't photographed every single day he does something precisely as Harry isn't photographed every single day he does something. They're both of interest to the public and the press, Harry perhaps even moreso since he's single.
Harry works in a closed building and meets with people in offices, for the games, as I said, I realize most here have not organized anything like this or even large conferences, whereas William had to go across campus and take the train very publicly in view of thousands of people, had he done this every day someone would have seen him for the 8 weeks he allegedly attended, he is not invisible, and not everyone is as jaded as to not have mentioned it among the thousands of people including students that would have noticed him for two months.
^^ Wasn't William's class held in a closed building? Doesn't Harry have to walk to get to his office? Why don't the people he works with talk about it? I don't see the difference.
Quote from: Limabeany on August 15, 2014, 12:55:10 PM
Evidence, he was rarely seen in a school with thousands of students which he allegedly attended for 8 weeks.
By that logic, I could say he never eats, because I haven't seen him doing so.
Cindy
The class was in a building he had to very publicly travel to reach both on campus and by train, he wasn't beamed there by Scotty nor wearing an invisibility cloak, as the pictures and comments by students and the media showed for a few days and then he simply vanished. As far as Harry, little is said in military environments about his or William being there.
How many times does William need to be photographed getting off a train at Cambridge before it becomes boring and or harassment? At least he's been photographed.
Not one single photo of a dashing Captain Wales in his army fatigues either arriving to or leaving work. Harry is photographed at least once everywhere he goes. From beer festivals to ski vacations in Kazakhstan and yet for 8 months he isn't photographed at least one time arriving to or leaving his full-time desk job at Whitehall.
Can you defend William, logically, without mentioning Harry, because William can be criticized, logically, without bringing in Harry.
What I'm getting at is if its possible for Harry to come and go from work for 8 months and not be photographed despite his huge popularity then why does William need to flash an AP bulletin every time he attended class.
It's all in the CCTV :hehe:
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on August 15, 2014, 01:25:38 PM
What I'm getting at is if its possible for Harry to come and go from work for 8 months and not be photographed despite his huge popularity then why does William need to flash an AP bulletin every time he attended class.
What I am getting at is William didn't suddenly become invisible in a n environment with thousands of students, while Harry is working in professional environments and has the Invictus Games to show for working, William has nothing but a few photographs in the beginning to prove he ever even attended the course, let alone regularly.
Quote from: cinrit on August 15, 2014, 01:00:37 PM
^^ Wasn't William's class held in a closed building? Doesn't Harry have to walk to get to his office? Why don't the people he works with talk about it? I don't see the difference.
Quote from: Limabeany on August 15, 2014, 12:55:10 PM
Evidence, he was rarely seen in a school with thousands of students which he allegedly attended for 8 weeks.
By that logic, I could say he never eats, because I haven't seen him doing so.
Cindy
:goodpost:
Quote from: Limabeany on August 15, 2014, 01:38:01 PM
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on August 15, 2014, 01:25:38 PM
What I'm getting at is if its possible for Harry to come and go from work for 8 months and not be photographed despite his huge popularity then why does William need to flash an AP bulletin every time he attended class.
What I am getting at is William didn't suddenly become invisible in a n environment with thousands of students, while Harry is working in professional environments and has the Invictus Games to show for working, William has nothing but a few photographs in the beginning to prove he ever even attended the course, let alone regularly.
There is an article that stated Harry hardly goes to the office, and when he does show up it's to serve coffee, tea and cake. :shrug:
I have never seen any article stating when he shows up it is only to serve tea and cakes... There are, however, articles stating he is organizing the Invictus Games and evidence he is involved. The same cannot be said for William and his bespoke course. I'm a Start Trek and Harry Potter fan but I think the invisibility cloak and the capacity to beam are way in the future. Big Campus, very public walk among thousands of students and only reported to have happened by anyone at all a few times...
Whereas I find it far less believable that Will skipped all but a few days of a ten week class and there wasn't a single leak of that from professors, other students in his lectures, administrators at the university, staff at KP, people wherever he was spending the time that he wasn't in Cambridge, etc.
Different opinions, etc. Though I do find it curious that a few weeks ago people were saying that the evidence Will didn't attend was that the press had never mentioned him completing the course, and now that the press HAS mentioned him completing the course, that's somehow still evidence he didn't. It's almost as though nothing would satisfy some people... :shrug:
The coffee, tea and cake article has been linked and quoted plenty of times in Harry's thread.
There's also more than 100 pages in the search engine referred to Williams agriculture course....
I agree with those who have stated a balance in logic of IF we are to use photographic evidence, then it's quite obvious Harry failed. Many also think his invictus is not worked or studied, smoke and mirrors, pr purpose. His past Wednesday speech saying "behind me" more than 10 times in 2 minutes, and the fact that every third word he was having grammatical speech mistakes. I think he does care, but I also think not enough to really show enthusiasm.
Related, but out of topic, my last.
Do you mean this article? Because it says the female staff bring Harry tea and lunch, not the other way around:
QuoteOne senior insider added: "All of my staff begin swooning when Harry arrives for work. I cut them a bit of slack because he's not your average officer but I do have to tell them to concentrate when he's around.
"They are often queuing up to make him tea and bring his lunch to his desk."
Prince Harry's new single status causing a stir among female staff at regimental HQ - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-harrys-new-single-status-3604003#ixzz3ATBXVKBu)
[mod] Folks, gentle reminder that Harry has his own thread. Let's keep it to the Cambridges here. :flower: [/mod]
Idk what Prince Harry does in the office since I don't work there, but his consistency in aiding veterans and actual involvement other than a gala or hour long photo op leads me to think he has true commitment to the plight of veterans. The news about Princess Anne wanting to go to Africa regardless of the Ebola outbreak. That's what I see missing from William, just does not look like he goes the extra step. Of course, I know what's coming next...he's a prince, future king and must remain cool and dignified which is and has always been a good enough excuse.
Quote from: Canuck on August 15, 2014, 02:01:55 PM
Whereas I find it far less believable that Will skipped all but a few days of a ten week class and there wasn't a single leak of that from professors, other students in his lectures, administrators at the university, staff at KP, people wherever he was spending the time that he wasn't in Cambridge, etc.
Different opinions, etc. Though I do find it curious that a few weeks ago people were saying that the evidence Will didn't attend was that the press had never mentioned him completing the course, and now that the press HAS mentioned him completing the course, that's somehow still evidence he didn't. It's almost as though nothing would satisfy some people... :shrug:
I don't personally understand the following calculus:
William being spotted 3 times == never attending course
Kate being spotted 2 times in 2014 == constantly leaving George to go shopping
But whatever works for people. That's the beauty of our independent ability to determine what we believe for ourselves.
I wonder how many things can be denied just because there are no photographs. Did Kate realy give birth to George? There are no photos of it. Does the Queen really meet with the PM, are there any photos? Did Harry and William ever attend Eton classes or did they just sleep in their rooms all day and were handed a degree? Were there pictures of them walking into classrooms everyday? Was President Obama really born in Hawaii? There are no photos. Was JFK really assassinated? There is no pho.........oh wait a minute.
On an entertaining note, and to the point about pay scales we discussed a while back, the helicopter pilot who flies the RF around will apparently make almost twice as much as William.
Queen advertises for new helicopter pilot (http://royalcentral.co.uk/state/wanted-helicopter-pilot-to-the-queen-37161)
QuoteThe advertisement specifies for £75,000 a year 'plus benefits', the successful applicant can look forward to flying one of the two privately operated helicopters within the royal flight, the long-standing Sikorsky S76 which has been used by the Royal Family since 2009 and also the newly-acquired Agusta Westland 109S which was added to the flight a few months ago.
^^ I assume this new pilot will have to contend with two requirements Will does not:
1. The pilot will need to have security training, in case of terrorism
2. His/her schedule will not be on a specific rote, but rather revolve around the Royal Family, as it should be.
There is also class of license to consider.
Quote from: Lady Adams on September 13, 2014, 02:32:54 AM
^^ I assume this new pilot will have to contend with two requirements Will does not:
1. The pilot will need to have security training, in case of terrorism
2. His/her schedule will not be on a specific rote, but rather revolve around the Royal Family, as it should be.
There is also class of license to consider.
Not so sure about number two, actually, since the pilot will be part of "a small team" WCN ATS (https://atsv7.wcn.co.uk/search_engine/jobs.cgi?amNvZGU9MTQzNTYwOSZ2dF90ZW1wbGF0ZT05NDgmb3duZXI9NTA0MDk2OSZvd25lcnR5cGU9ZmFpciZicmFuZF9pZD0wJnBvc3RpbmdfY29kZT0yMTEmcmVxc2lnPTE0MTA1NjE3NTEtMWY5NWU4OWY4Mzg3MDlkMjBhOGMxNWUzZDhhZDY1OWJjOTgwZjNiNQ%3D%3D&jcode=1435609&vt_template=948&owner=5040969&ownertype=fair&brand_id=0&posting_code=211&reqsig=1410561751-1f95e89f838709d20a8c15e3d8ad659bc980f3b5)
As for licenses, you're right, they are different licenses.. the royal helicopter pilot needs a Commercial Pilot License (CPL[H]). William will need a Airline Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL[H]), for which he'll first need to have the CPL[H] licence.
According, he already started, theoretical study.
Emily Andrews (@byEmilyAndrews) tweeted at 1:39pm - 15 Sep 14:
@_peppersmint_ he's already started his commercial chopper training (theory at mo) and I predict it'll def be Wills not Kate going to Malta (Emily Andrews on Twitter: "@_peppersmint_ he's already started his commercial chopper training (theory at mo) and I predict it'll def be Wills (https://twitter.com/byEmilyAndrews/status/511577557507244032))
A tidbit quote from William at the youth center in Malta today.
Quote.Talking with Desira about school, William said, "I've got to do 14 exams by Christmas," referring to his upcoming helicopter studies for his air ambulance job.
http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20395222_20855208,00.html
And tweeted by the specific around Aug 09, what studies entail.
EMS Flight Crew (@emsflightcrew) tweeted at 3:50pm - 9 Aug 14:
5 months of specific air ambulance training, 14 exams and 1 flight check before reporting to duty. How do these... fb.me/6WWc9JDnk (EMS Flight Crew on Twitter: "5 months of specific air ambulance training, 14 exams and 1 flight check before reporting to duty. How do these... (https://twitter.com/emsflightcrew/status/498202280764903424))
Sounds like he'll be spending most of the time on the ground for now prepping for written and practical exams.
He can't have this as a lifetime career. Better for him to prep at being a future King. He had a yen to fly and doors were kicked open for him. I think he needs to stop the playing at being normal and get on with his royal life.
That is true but until HM, the DoE and PoW feel the need to bring the grandchildren on board full time, they will have other ways to serve the nation. :)
I think William is calling the shots. I think the Queen refurbished KP in the hope he'd step up and do full time duties. Will is not serving the nation IMO he's serving himself and now he has a yen to be a copter pilot so voila he becomes one.
^^^We'll have to agree to disagree. When I think of the "Firm" I believe it is being run by its top members of the board and not the junior partners. If others believe that the younger members call the shots then that's fine with me. :truce: Everyone is entitled to their opinions and those thoughts should be respected.
William does as he pleases so it is run by the top but with a very hands off attitude towards William...
William is not a junior partner he's two heartbeats away from being monarch.
The Queen avoids unpleasantness and if her stubborn grandson puts his foot down about not doing full time duties and being normal she is not going to thwart him. It's only when it's an emergency situation practically that she takes action. It's an old pattern. Yes, it is believable that WIlliam is calling the shots. I don't think the Queen would prefer her grandson playing pilot and not helping out.
^^^He's closer in the line of succession, but that does not mean he is considered a senior royal.(That would mean that George would be considered a senior royal as well.)Based upon what HM's children/grandchildren have personally stated, she does "call the shots." HM and the DoE would only bring their children into the fold of royal duties when they'd reached their majority and completed their education. Then they would consider what was needed at the time in terms of who was a full time royal who would be performing royal duties as a "career." Charles and Anne began that work in the late 1960's/early1970's and their younger siblings came on board at an even later age/stage. It's only been in the past decade (give or take) that William was included as a member Counselor of State, Way Ahead group etc..
Of course he is considered a senior royal, in addition to being the heir to the heir of the throne. There is no doubt about that.
I have to agree with
@Limabeany . During the Queen's Jubilee, she certainly sent a signal with who she considers to be senior royals with the streamlined family members present for the flypast (photo here (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-18327711)).
And if junior royals get a refurbished palace, I think Bea and Eugenie are somewhere sulking. :blush:
Quote from: TLLK on September 23, 2014, 03:14:52 PM
^^^He's closer in the line of succession, but that does not mean he is considered a senior royal.(That would mean that George would be considered a senior royal as well.)Based upon what HM's children/grandchildren have personally stated, she does "call the shots." HM and the DoE would only bring their children into the fold of royal duties when they'd reached their majority and completed their education. Then they would consider what was needed at the time in terms of who was a full time royal who would be performing royal duties as a "career." Charles and Anne began that work in the late 1960's/early1970's and their younger siblings came on board at an even later age/stage. It's only been in the past decade (give or take) that William was included as a member Counselor of State, Way Ahead group etc..
George is a baby but is directly in line for the throne. He can't do much now but as he grows up he will do royal duties and yes, be a senior royal.
William is a grownup now and has a senior citizen dad and an elderly grandmother. He could be King a lot sooner than he thinks. Nobody knows when.
Double post auto-merged: September 24, 2014, 12:10:58 AM
Quote from: TLLK on September 22, 2014, 09:31:57 PM
That is true but until HM, the DoE and PoW feel the need to bring the grandchildren on board full time, they will have other ways to serve the nation. :)
If William decided he did not want to play "normal" I very much doubt the Queen would forbid him to work full time. I think she had KP refurbished thinking he'd get on with it and step up to full time royal duties. As I said I think this is Will serving himself rather than the nation. He's doing as he pleases.
^^^Those that he transports to the hospital might disagree with you along with the charities that will receive his salary. :) HM will let her grandchildren know when they need to take on full time royal duties. Her children have offered to take on more of her tasks and she's agreed to their help. Her grandchildren have made the same offer and they've been rebuffed. :)
Quote from: Lady Adams on September 24, 2014, 12:01:58 AM
I have to agree with @Limabeany . During the Queen's Jubilee, she certainly sent a signal with who she considers to be senior royals with the streamlined family members present for the flypast (photo here (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-18327711)).
And if junior royals get a refurbished palace, I think Bea and Eugenie are somewhere sulking. :blush:
I disagree. IMO the Jubilee balcony appearance showcased the next generation to take the throne. In reality I believe she considers her spouse, sons, daughter and cousins to be the senior royals that she would turn to get their opinions and input on how the monarchy is doing and how it can be improved. I believe in time that as the older royals no longer take on those duties or are not available that she'll incorporate the grandchildren.
As for those homes that were made available, Harry has Nott Cottage with Beatrice and Eugenie at Royal Lodge Windsor when they are in the UK. The sisters also have palace apartments available for their use in London. When the three of them marry and begin a family then I do believe that they might receive a home from granny much like their parents, aunt and uncles.
William is a senior royal, if nothing else, by virtue of his position.
Bea and Eugenie have been granted or so I read someplace in The Guardian I think lifetime use of Windsor Royal Lodge which PA has now. They also have apartments at St James - or at least Bea does but Bea said it was a small walk up nothing glamorous certainly not from what she said a family apartment.
The Phillips - Zara et al have not gotten homes from the Queen - I do not then expect any homes other than the use of Windsor Lodge for Bea and Eugenie.
The Queen's cousins did not get homes from their parents - just the estates that they owned which by and large they do not have now since they can not afford them. These cousins are sons of a monarch yet here we are - they live at KP largely because they are not flush with money - once they had to pay rent for their KP apartments or other living arrangements - country homes/estates got sold. This is then the future for Bea Eugenie Edward's kids unless their parents make other arrangements or they start careers that earn well for them or marry well.
The Vanderbilts and Rockefellers in the US are two examples of different approaches to family wealth preservation (and the RF also needs and practices wealth preservation). The Vanderbilts were insanely wealthy - one of the Vanderbilt females old country estate is near my home - it is now a University. All of the Vanderbilt homes now either are country clubs, museums or gone. The family trust fund gave every descendant a share including the females and their children. As each generation arrived the size of the family kept getting larger til the share each person received became a negligible amount and so the Vanderbilts are not rich anymore.
The Rockefellers took another route - the family trust excludes the females and their descendants. Only males participate in the trust which keeps the numbers of people taking money to a manageable size. Hence the Rockefellers are still wealthy but even then I read they have dwindling amounts.
The RF is more like the Rockefellers. And understandably so - if you wish to preserve wealth you must keep the numbers of people you support down. The monarchy has an additional pressure in that they also have to keep the numbers down to please the public.
Quote from: TLLK on September 24, 2014, 12:17:04 AM
Quote from: Lady Adams on September 24, 2014, 12:01:58 AM
I have to agree with @Limabeany . During the Queen's Jubilee, she certainly sent a signal with who she considers to be senior royals with the streamlined family members present for the flypast (photo here (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-18327711)).
And if junior royals get a refurbished palace, I think Bea and Eugenie are somewhere sulking. :blush:
I disagree. IMO the Jubilee balcony appearance showcased the next generation to take the throne. In reality I believe she considers her spouse, sons, daughter and cousins to be the senior royals that she would turn to get their opinions and input on how the monarchy is doing and how it can be improved. I believe in time that as the older royals no longer take on those duties or are not available that she'll incorporate the grandchildren.
As for those homes that were made available, Harry has Nott Cottage with Beatrice and Eugenie at Royal Lodge Windsor when they are in the UK. The sisters also have palace apartments available for their use in London. When the three of them marry and begin a family then I do believe that they might receive a home from granny much like their parents, aunt and uncles.
Each of those homes are their families-- and I believe Andrew pays rent on the girls' apartment in London.
I really find it odd you don't consider William a senior royal. He's a future king, and the only reason he is not working for the Firm full-time is because he chooses not to.
I think the Queen is very fond of her cousins the Duke and Duchess of Kent and Princess Alexandra and the Gloucesters, and no doubt has a general chat to them about various things when she sees them (which isn't very often.)
As for considering them senior royals I'm not sure the Queen thinks in those terms. She realises that she is coming to the end of a very long life and reign. She, and her cousins, are elderly. The way forward is with Charles and then with William, and his brother. I'm sure there are some things that Charles wishes to do in his reign that she would not agree with. However, above everything, the Queen is a pragmatist. She is resigned to the fact that changes will be made after she's gone and there's nothing she can do. I'm sure that these have been discussed among the family and more formally at the Way Ahead Group.
Using proximity to the throne as a barometer, all of the Queen's grandchildren are senior royals because they come ahead of people such as Princess Anne so one's place in the line of succession can't be the factor.
Using the balcony appearance would mean Harry is also a senior royal but we know he wants to be a soldier until he retires at 55 so the balcony can't be the factor.
The Order of Precedence does give us some insight into who is a senior royal because precedence is different from succession. The Queen's children take precedence over her grandchildren for example.
But the ultimate determining factor is the Queen herself. She decides who the working the royals are as she controls the purse strings.
The money for official engagements doesn't increase as younger royals are added to the line-up. Either the Queen must force her children and cousins into retirement or the grandchildren must wait for their turn.
Charles's private secretary is on the record saying there isn't any extra money should the balance of work shift with William, Kate or Harry so until the Queen passes or some senior royals retire I don't see much change in the immediate future.
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on September 24, 2014, 02:39:21 AM
Charles's private secretary is on the record saying there isn't any extra money should the balance of work shift with William, Kate or Harry so until the Queen passes or some senior royals retire I don't see much change in the immediate future.
So instead, they'll pass the extra cost of Will and Kate's security at Amner onto the taxpayer, who will never actually know the amount. :orchid:
^^ I don't get your point, Lady Adams. Why would the cost of security at Anmer be additional to the cost of security at Kensington Palace? If the Cambridges are at KP, their security will be there. If they are at Anmer Hall, that's where their security will also be. It isn't as though they have two sets of security; one for KP and one for Anmer.
Cindy
^KP is already secure, and has a system in place (that's part of the reason why the Israeli embassy is nearby- it's easier to secure a whole area). When Will and Kate are not at KP, the security costs are still the same (minus, of course, their RPOs who travel with them).
Amner doesn't have a system the way KP does. Just like when Will and Kate visit her parents, the security costs are extra when they're at Amner.
A different way to think about it is to look at President Obama. When the First Family travels to Camp David, there aren't really extra security costs for the taxpayers. But when they go back to their Chicago house (which they've only done a handful of times) or when they holiday in Haiwaii (each Christmas), the security costs are extra. The White House and Camp David security costs do not lower when POTUS is not in residence-- they have to stay on high alert, just like KP.
Does that explain it a bit more,
@cinrit?
^^ Thanks, but no, it doesn't. I haven't read anywhere that there will be extra security when the Cambridges are at Anmer Hall. I'd be interested in anything that you've seen, though.
Cindy
^^ Hi
@cinrit-- since they haven't started living at Amner, I don't know if I've seen an article discussing the extra costs there yet-- but we can look at the fact William needed 15 extra local police officers when he moved off-base in Wales, for an estimated £1.4 million/ year just for those officers (here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/7897152/Cost-of-Prince-Williams-security-in-North-Wales-to-rise-significantly.html)) and the security measures taken at Bucklebury after the birth of Prince George (here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2377611/Prince-George-Police-form-ring-steel-Kate-Middletons-family-home-Bucklebury.html)) with estimates at $17,000 USD/ per day for the extra security. Those examples help us deduce, logically, that extra costs of local protection officers will also happen at Amner.
Since Sandringham is an open estate, and isn't like the gated Kensington Palace, there will need to be extra security costs-- that's simply a fact. Add in the renovation to include the panic rooms added to Amner, plus the living quarters for the security team-- which will be paid for by taxpayers-- and that's a hefty bill.
Now, I want to be clear: Will, Kate, George and Baby#2
need this security. There are crazies in the world, and I think everyone on RIF would agree that we want to see that the Cambridge family be protected from any sort of harm. However, those feelings of empathy and protection does not change the fact that security is expensive, especially when deviating from a system already in place.
^^ Again, thanks. But I'll wait and see how much extra security they actually get before I form an opinion. The Telegraph article is based on a report by The Sunday Times, with much "it is claimed" and "it is expected" and "it is estimated" beginning each report.
Cindy
^ That's okay,
@cinrit, I expected as much. :hug:
^^ I know you did. :wink:
Cindy
^^
@cinrit :hug: :hug: :hug:
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on September 24, 2014, 02:39:21 AM
Using proximity to the throne as a barometer, all of the Queen's grandchildren are senior royals because they come ahead of people such as Princess Anne so one's place in the line of succession can't be the factor.
Using the balcony appearance would mean Harry is also a senior royal but we know he wants to be a soldier until he retires at 55 so the balcony can't be the factor.
The Order of Precedence does give us some insight into who is a senior royal because precedence is different from succession. The Queen's children take precedence over her grandchildren for example.
But the ultimate determining factor is the Queen herself. She decides who the working the royals are as she controls the purse strings.
The money for official engagements doesn't increase as younger royals are added to the line-up. Either the Queen must force her children and cousins into retirement or the grandchildren must wait for their turn.
Charles's private secretary is on the record saying there isn't any extra money should the balance of work shift with William, Kate or Harry so until the Queen passes or some senior royals retire I don't see much change in the immediate future.
Not necessarily. Anne will never be monarch and Edward and Andrew no chance. OTOH Charles, William and George are directly in line to be monarch.
The Queen may "decide" but I think she's just catering to her grandson who seems bent on postponing or avoiding full time royal duties. Whether she likes this or not is subject to speculation.
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on September 24, 2014, 02:39:21 AM
Using proximity to the throne as a barometer, all of the Queen's grandchildren are senior royals because they come ahead of people such as Princess Anne so one's place in the line of succession can't be the factor.
Using the balcony appearance would mean Harry is also a senior royal but we know he wants to be a soldier until he retires at 55 so the balcony can't be the factor.
The Order of Precedence does give us some insight into who is a senior royal because precedence is different from succession. The Queen's children take precedence over her grandchildren for example.
But the ultimate determining factor is the Queen herself. She decides who the working the royals are as she controls the purse strings.
The money for official engagements doesn't increase as younger royals are added to the line-up. Either the Queen must force her children and cousins into retirement or the grandchildren must wait for their turn.
Charles's private secretary is on the record saying there isn't any extra money should the balance of work shift with William, Kate or Harry so until the Queen passes or some senior royals retire I don't see much change in the immediate future.
I believe this analysis to be correct. I also personally believe it to be ridiculous.
I thought Harry retired from front line duty and has a desk job. It is subject to speculation if he continues in the military until he's 55.
I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases. I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO.
Its just simple economics. If Charles has a a budget of say £ 8 million a year and out of this he must fund both the private and public lives of himself, Camilla, William, Harry and Kate it just stands to reason that if the balance of work changes with his sons then Charles will have to make cuts somewhere in order to free up funds for the children.
Charles personal private secretary has stated this isn't an option for Charles to fund 5 full-time royals so its not as much a matter of anyone needing the OK, its a matter of money.
^^^Well sandy that is the way that the of royal houses work so it doesn't surprise me that William, Harry, etc..have to receive approval from the monarch/government for their careers. The monarch/consort set the pace followed by an adult heir/consort or other adult royals.
The children and grandchildren of HM and the DoE are on record for offering to take on some of their grandparents' tasks and quite often the answer has been no.
Quote from: sandy on September 24, 2014, 06:59:16 PM
I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases. I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO.
According to William, that's exactly what happened. He did go to the Queen and suggest she slow down and let others take over for her. Her answer was "no". And why is it absurd for a future King to wait for a current Queen to give him the okay?
Cindy
^^^You make a very good point about the funds that are needed for the PoW to keep his spouse, sons and daughter-in-law working. Not all of the costs are covered by the Sovereign's Grant.
Quote from: cinrit on September 24, 2014, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: sandy on September 24, 2014, 06:59:16 PM
I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases. I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO.
According to William, that's exactly what happened. He did go to the Queen and suggest she slow down and let others take over for her. Her answer was "no". And why is it absurd for a future King to wait for a current Queen to give him the okay?
Cindy
IMHO the first and second time the grandchildren would have made this request would have been received politely. After that I can imagine the DoE displaying his extensive vocabulary! (He is fluent in German and French too so it could be zehr/tres :o
Quote from: cinrit on September 24, 2014, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: sandy on September 24, 2014, 06:59:16 PM
I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases. I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO.
According to William, that's exactly what happened. He did go to the Queen and suggest she slow down and let others take over for her. Her answer was "no". And why is it absurd for a future King to wait for a current Queen to give him the okay?
Cindy
Cause William said it....it makes it gospel? He couldn't even get his stories straight during the engagement interview. Salt...pinch...of.
How come Charles has millions to spend on doing up KP and AH? When he cannot afford to send his lazy son and his beyond lazy wife on royal duties?
I thought that was *the* point of them? You know, to do good?
Quote from: Curryong on September 24, 2014, 02:12:52 AM
I think the Queen is very fond of her cousins the Duke and Duchess of Kent and Princess Alexandra and the Gloucesters, and no doubt has a general chat to them about various things when she sees them (which isn't very often.)
As for considering them senior royals I'm not sure the Queen thinks in those terms. She realises that she is coming to the end of a very long life and reign. She, and her cousins, are elderly. The way forward is with Charles and then with William, and his brother. I'm sure there are some things that Charles wishes to do in his reign that she would not agree with. However, above everything, the Queen is a pragmatist. She is resigned to the fact that changes will be made after she's gone and there's nothing she can do. I'm sure that these have been discussed among the family and more formally at the Way Ahead Group.
:goodpost:
Quote from: SophieChloe on September 24, 2014, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: cinrit on September 24, 2014, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: sandy on September 24, 2014, 06:59:16 PM
I do think it absurd that William a future King "must" wait for his granny to give him the OK. I don't think it is the case. I think he is just being stubborn and digging his heels in and the non-confrontational Queen lets him do as he pleases. I doubt if William goes to the Queen and asks for more royal duties (I doubt this would ever happen) she would say no Sorry Wills I'm not letting you. She is all about duty and I doubt she'd ever forbid him to work. It's just another in the long line of excuses for him IMO.
According to William, that's exactly what happened. He did go to the Queen and suggest she slow down and let others take over for her. Her answer was "no". And why is it absurd for a future King to wait for a current Queen to give him the okay?
Cindy
Cause William said it....it makes it gospel? He couldn't even get his stories straight during the engagement interview. Salt...pinch...of.
I agree. This seems more hearsay or William trying to say his grandmother was doing well for her age. I can't imagine the Queen would refuse to let Will work more. I think she expected him to step up to full time when she had KP refurbished.
Double post auto-merged: September 25, 2014, 02:17:26 PM
Quote from: TLLK on September 24, 2014, 07:15:28 PM
^^^Well sandy that is the way that the of royal houses work so it doesn't surprise me that William, Harry, etc..have to receive approval from the monarch/government for their careers. The monarch/consort set the pace followed by an adult heir/consort or other adult royals.
The children and grandchildren of HM and the DoE are on record for offering to take on some of their grandparents' tasks and quite often the answer has been no.
On record? where? There was nothing from the Palace or anything official. It is hearsay or based on random comments. I truly doubt the Queen would refuse Will's request to work more. He does pitifully little already so stepping up would not be exactly hurtful to her. I think t his is another excuse for the laziness and the Queen is blamed.
Double post auto-merged: September 25, 2014, 02:19:02 PM
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on September 24, 2014, 07:13:42 PM
Its just simple economics. If Charles has a a budget of say £ 8 million a year and out of this he must fund both the private and public lives of himself, Camilla, William, Harry and Kate it just stands to reason that if the balance of work changes with his sons then Charles will have to make cuts somewhere in order to free up funds for the children.
Charles personal private secretary has stated this isn't an option for Charles to fund 5 full-time royals so its not as much a matter of anyone needing the OK, its a matter of money.
If $$$ can be shelled out for home refurbishments for Will and Kate and clothing for her and her upkeep it certainly would be possible to have $$$ to give them to work. What is the point of them anyway if they do nothing. Why not just give them one house and have them earn the other one. More excuses for the lazy ones.
Quote from: sandy on September 25, 2014, 02:15:51 PM
Quote from: SophieChloe on September 24, 2014, 07:27:30 PM
Cause William said it....it makes it gospel? He couldn't even get his stories straight during the engagement interview. Salt...pinch...of.
I agree. This seems more hearsay or William trying to say his grandmother was doing well for her age. I can't imagine the Queen would refuse to let Will work more. I think she expected him to step up to full time when she had KP refurbished.
William is on video saying it, so it's not hearsay. And I don't see why I wouldn't believe it if he blatantly said it.
Quote from: sandyOn record? where? There was nothing from the Palace or anything official. It is hearsay or based on random comments.
Sandy, I've posted the video here several times. William said it in an interview (with Katie Couric, I believe), in the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, when she gave family members permission to speak to the media.
QuoteIf $$$ can be shelled out for home refurbishments for Will and Kate and clothing for her and her upkeep it certainly would be possible to have $$$ to give them to work. What is the point of them anyway if they do nothing. Why not just give them one house and have them earn the other one. More excuses for the lazy ones.
Because that's the way budgets work ... there are different categories for different expenses. You don't pay for home improvements out of the clothing category. Otherwise, why bother with a budget?
Cindy
William never said that he went to her offering to work and he was turned down. The implication was that she was not slowing down. Belied by Charles taking on more of her duties. The Queen never issued an edict saying William "could not" step up to full time royal duties.
Queen Elizabeth II to hand over reigns to Prince Charles in historic 'job share' - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/queen-elizabeth-ii-hand-over-3039892)
I think Will is just doing what he wants and the Queen is allowing it and that does not mean she likes it she is just non-confrontational.
William had to have this pilot job created just for him so he could satisfy his longing to fly copters. It's something he can't do permanently in any case. And he needs security around him. He's not like the average pilot and never will be.
I am very skeptical that the two can't work because of money issues. They do pathetically little anyway so if they did a few more hours the budget would not Suffer.
These two get all sorts of excuses.
^^ Yes, that's exactly what he did. He (and others) asked the Queen to slow down and let them take on some of the responsibilities, and her answer was "no". That was two years ago, and she's given a handful of responsibilities since then. But she's not slowing down very much. I'm sorry if you haven't seen the video. It's most likely posted several times at YouTube.
As for the pilot job being created for William, I've never heard that the job was "created" for him. Do you have a link with quotes from the organization stating such?
Cindy
Well the Queen allegedly said one thing but the reality is she is turning things over to Charles. So Will needs to step up, logically since he is next in line of succession and part of Charles vision of the scaled down monarchy. So if the Queen said no to William and "others"" why is she giving more to Charles. And this was two years ago and since then the announcement came she was giving more duties to Charles.
. Elizabeth herself never said anything of the sort publicly or stated I am hanging on to my duties and I am not giving them up even though my grandson asked me.. I'm skeptical of William who is not the best public speaker or interviewee and I doubt he literally went to Granny and asked her for more work and she turned him down. He was just trying to say perhaps she was not stepping down and still healthy. I would not take this comment literally.
I think it is very very unlikely that someone who has a work ethic would discourage work ethic in her grandson who will be monarch someday.
There were articles that said this was created for Will but also articles criticizing William for not letting someone who needs the job have the job. In any case, William can't stay with the work for obvious reasons.
I don't know, Sandy ... William said what he said. He couldn't have been clearer. They asked her to slow down and she said no. :shrug: And of course, when she does hand things over, she's naturally going to hand them over to the heir to the throne. Charles hands down to William, which he has done at least once so far. With the exception of investitures, which both Charles and Princess Anne have been doing for years, and now William is also doing, it's only right that the monarch's duties be handed over to the heir. So we'll just have to agree to disagree. :flower:
Cindy
:goodpost: Cindy
I think the queen has also been handing some things down to Will's level. She sent Will/Harry/Kate to the big foreign WWI commemorations (and Charles/Camilla to the big domestic ones) while she and Philip took a much smaller role at lower profile events. She sent originally Kate, and then Will to Malta for their independence celebrations. She's been sending Will and Kate on a lot of big foreign tours at the same time that BP announced that the Queen/DoE would basically stop doing that type of travel.
So the Queen and DoE are starting, slowly, the process of handing things down to younger generations. Most of it obviously goes to Charles, as next in line to the throne, but I think Will and Kate taking the bulk of the high profile foreign tours over the past few years has been a very deliberate move. That type of travel IS something that age is making difficult, so it's been handed off. The Queen and DoE evidently don't feel the need to similarly scale back duties in the UK, so they haven't.
It's the same old story of their having to be "eased in." They do very little as it is. Time will tell if Kate and William step up;. So far I'm not impressed.
Double post auto-merged: September 25, 2014, 05:49:02 PM
Quote from: cinrit on September 25, 2014, 05:24:34 PM
I don't know, Sandy ... William said what he said. He couldn't have been clearer. They asked her to slow down and she said no. :shrug: And of course, when she does hand things over, she's naturally going to hand them over to the heir to the throne. Charles hands down to William, which he has done at least once so far. With the exception of investitures, which both Charles and Princess Anne have been doing for years, and now William is also doing, it's only right that the monarch's duties be handed over to the heir. So we'll just have to agree to disagree. :flower:
Cindy
Her saying she would not "slow down" does not translate into her refusing to give William more work. And William has a long list of patronages some of which he has yet to do much with.
And again this is two years ago.
Excellent and sensible remarks regarding HM/DoE's desire to remain as active as they can for the present. Truly they are behaving as any other monarch/consort would with their heir/consort, other children/spouses and quite unusually adult grandchildren/spouse while still maintaining their reign. HM's health appears to be good and if it is her desire to remain as active as possible than I see no reason why she shouldn't. When she's ready to pass on more duties to her children/adult grandchildren then she will.
What does the Queen's active status have to do with William and Kate's workload? Charles' Prince's Trust and Harry's Sentebale are proof you can be active in charity work and pursue your passions and interests without waiting for HM to die... But, they have never shown passion for anything other than Mustique and the Middletons...
Will, for example, is pursuing passions and public service through military service and now air ambulance work. The fact that he's not doing it in exactly the same way Charles did doesn't mean he isn't doing it at all.
Doing what? Pursuing a passion? That is not a life plan or path it is not even a career path. As far as passions go, what have he and Kate, for that matter, done for these pilots and their families? He is just a boy with a license to do whatever strikes his fancy b the people that pay his bills.
Limabeany, you asked what the Queen's status had to do with Will's workload, because Charles and Harry show that the Royals can be active and pursue passions and charity work even while the Queen is active. I was pointing out that Will, too, is pursuing passions and charity work. His military and air ambulance jobs are public service, just as Harry's military job is and Charles' was. He also set up United for Wildlife and is patron of/involved with various other charities.
I know people have disagreements about whether he is doing ENOUGH. But the idea that he isn't doing ANYTHING -- or that he has no passions or interests he pursues -- just isn't true.
Quote from: Canuck on September 25, 2014, 08:11:04 PM
Will, for example, is pursuing passions and public service through military service and now air ambulance work. The fact that he's not doing it in exactly the same way Charles did doesn't mean he isn't doing it at all.
Thank you for your response. IMHO it was wise for HM and the DoE to allow Charles the opportunity to set up the Prince's Trust once his naval service came to an end. Likewise Queen Beatrix and the late Prince Claus encouraged the then Prince of Orange to pursue his water conservation work while he was in his CP tenure.
Charles later has followed his parents' example and encouraged his sons to pursue their charitable and conservation efforts with their own foundation while they pursued the traditional BRF military careers. They have opted to continue with some of the charitable work associated their own mother: Centerpoint, Child Bereavement. :)
Hoping that one day George and his sibling will in turn be encouraged by their parents to consider their interests outside of royal duties and make their own positive impact on the world.
Quote from: Canuck on September 25, 2014, 08:30:54 PM
Limabeany, you asked what the Queen's status had to do with Will's workload, because Charles and Harry show that the Royals can be active and pursue passions and charity work even while the Queen is active. I was pointing out that Will, too, is pursuing passions and charity work. His military and air ambulance jobs are public service, just as Harry's military job is and Charles' was. He also set up United for Wildlife and is patron of/involved with various other charities.
I know people have disagreements about whether he is doing ENOUGH. But the idea that he isn't doing ANYTHING -- or that he has no passions or interests he pursues -- just isn't true.
I don't think he has shown dedication to anything charitable or even to charity work anywhere near what Charles and Harry have, and he certainly has not shown to have any passion for anything other than flying a plane which does not make him suitable for anything other than that or even very interested in anything other than that. So, what isn't true is that he is visibly charitable as Charles or Harry or has any interest that he is passionate about which leads him to care for others like Charles and Harry, the charities he is barely involved in are no indication of an interest other than passing or perhaps acknowledging he has to. He set up the Wildlife Charity which he cannot dedicate himself to even part time, just occasionally, even though it is a very pressing and urgent matter which it addresses.
His passion for flying has taken him to save lives. A noble cause.
Flt Lt Wales as he is known in the RAF, who lost his own mother in 1997, said: 'There's no greater feeling than when you've actually done some good and saved someone's life.
'I don't think there's any greater calling in life... to be able to see a son or daughter's face when you bring their mother or father back from the edge of death - it's quite powerful.'
Harry didn't do much for Sentebale this year, a party and polo matches.
On another note, the future engagements of the Queen, Charles and William are empty, although HM other children and cousins are full until Mid October. Are thet strategizing?
Comparing Harry's and Charles charity work with William's is insulting them both. William hasn't done much for any of his charities his entire life, his passion for flying has nothing to do with saving lives, only with continuing to live as a pilot. If he had a passion for saving lives, he would be more involved in many causes addressing saving lives including Wildlife fund, as many of the men who defend the animals from poachers die senseless brutal deaths every year. His work is not work any other qualified pilot could not and would not be doing if space weren't made for him.
Insulting to Harry? I'm laughing out loud. I think what people forget is Harry's charitable work is available online for anyone to check.
Just say the word and I can start a thread on Harry's charities and the number of appearances he makes on their behalf.
Quote from: Limabeany on September 25, 2014, 10:29:40 PM
Comparing Harry's and Charles charity work with William's is insulting them both. William hasn't done much for any of his charities his entire life, his passion for flying has nothing to do with saving lives, only with continuing to live as a pilot. If he had a passion for saving lives, he would be more involved in many causes addressing saving lives including Wildlife fund, as many of the men who defend the animals from poachers die senseless brutal deaths every year. His work is not work any other qualified pilot could not and would not be doing if space weren't made for him.
His passion for flying has nothing to do with saving lives? He could get a job flying helicopters in other areas ... he could fly a tourist helicopter, he could work for a company that employs helicopters for surveying, or he could do some crop dusting or traffic monitoring. But he chose to work at saving peoples' lives.
Cindy
He could, but he is criticized enough as a reluctant royal as it is.
Or he could get a desk job at Whitehall and never have to show up for work.
Considering, William, until his father set up Wildlife for him, had nothing to show for his charitable work except a few visits, and still doesn't as he is nowhere near being involved in that full time, you may console yourself with your usual attacks at Harry, PoP.
I dont know where I stand on this issue any more, our society is trained to work "hard" "struggle" and "be useful" that people dont have time to just live :orchid:
The royals are ALL lucky to not have the burden of work that ALL of us have .
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on September 25, 2014, 10:37:16 PM
Insulting to Harry? I'm laughing out loud. I think what people forget is Harry's charitable work is available online for anyone to check.
Just say the word and I can start a thread on Harry's charities and the number of appearances he makes on their behalf.
Actually I would appreciate it if you did begin a thread on his charities in HIS FORUM. IMO he should receive credit for the work that he does for them. :thumbsup:
Yes he should :Jen: :nod:
Charles set up United for Wildlife? When did he do that?
Cindy
:wellduh: :happy15:
It says on the site 'Thunderclap: Whose Side Are You On' that the Royal Foundation set up United for Wildlife, with the Duke of Cambridge as President.
Ok, can we bring it back to the center.
I agree with all of you. I think all of have great points.
Excuses , but good point for PW and PK not working so much as QEII is still alive...lack of funds for them to move into work until ...PC alive...QEII very active...
Things like PW and K seems ready and passionate about getting their tan , Mustique , ski travel, and...SHOPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I posted this somewhere before. TPTB and PR and Others cannot find things of 2015, new things and things familair to this world that PW and PK grew up in for them to do.
Agreed, PK and PW do not need to unveil plaques, pull and cut ribbons, smile, make silly jokes, smile, shake some hands, etc.
How about things like... anit things like cyberbullying, bullying, domestic violence, teen births, breast cancer, community service, cyber footprints, social media use, jobs in technology, etc. Things for 2015 and of this century.
Bottom line is PK is work shy. Her life and want and need is to be a wife and mother first. Being a private citizen with worldwide privileges , wealth such as AH,KP apt, and all the renovating, decorating and vacations and ...and SHOPPING!!!! BRF duties are second and she has so much wait time, 20 years at least, that she can do this.
I am not saying being wife and mother are not impt or should not be first. She be able to do both: wife, mother and BRF duties. Some kind of work for her keep , for her subjects, for her to seen to her subjects to be real for them.
PW does do and can do and will do whatever he likes, his passions, LOL, while keeping his passions of all, his privileges.
Time off from this job for travel and for BRF things when called upon and being home with his new baby and just enjoying life.
20 years of this.
How long will he be an ambulance copter?
What job will he do after? :teehee:
Fly for Virign Airlines space shuttle?
Quote from: cinrit on September 25, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
Quote from: Limabeany on September 25, 2014, 10:29:40 PM
Comparing Harry's and Charles charity work with William's is insulting them both. William hasn't done much for any of his charities his entire life, his passion for flying has nothing to do with saving lives, only with continuing to live as a pilot. If he had a passion for saving lives, he would be more involved in many causes addressing saving lives including Wildlife fund, as many of the men who defend the animals from poachers die senseless brutal deaths every year. His work is not work any other qualified pilot could not and would not be doing if space weren't made for him.
His passion for flying has nothing to do with saving lives? He could get a job flying helicopters in other areas ... he could fly a tourist helicopter, he could work for a company that employs helicopters for surveying, or he could do some crop dusting or traffic monitoring. But he chose to work at saving peoples' lives.
Cindy
Good points, Cindy. And, actually, if he really truly only had a passion for flying, he could buy a plane or helicopter and fly it for fun, the way a lot of other rich people do. He certainly has the resources. We wouldn't even necessarily know if that was the case.
Quote from: cinrit on September 25, 2014, 11:46:32 PM
Charles set up United for Wildlife? When did he do that?
Cindy
I think Lima is referring to the Unite for Wildlife conference, which included all three Wales men.
Charles may have set up the conference, but this is the first I've heard that he set up the organization. :blank:
Cindy
^ credit where credit is due, it was setup by William. Likewise, Sentebale is to Harry.
about us
United for Wildlife was created by The Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry. Led by the Duke of Cambridge it has brought together the world's leading wildlife charities under a common purpose; to create a global movement for change. Whilst animals continue to be killed by criminals, whilst whole species are hunted to extinction, we will join together to ask one simple question: Whose side are you on?
"I believe passionately that we have a duty to prevent critically endangered species from being wiped out. If we get together, everywhere, we can preserve these animals so that they share our world with future generations. That's what United for Wildlife is all about, and why I'm proud to be involved."
HRH The Duke of Cambridge,
President of United for Wildlife
Home | United For Wildlife (http://www.unitedforwildlife.org/#!/about-us)
The easiest way to explain proof.
It certainly wasn't William since he barely has done anything with it, he would be more invested if he had, like Harry and Charles are in their own. When something comes from the heart it shows in your effort. William has put no visible congruent full-throttle effort into anything other than flying. IMO, this was something Charles got him involved with so his embarassing gap year could bear at least one fruit. beyond Tusk, for which he has barely ever shown up, there is no evidence William has ever seen Africa as nothing more than a place to safari with his aristo friends.
The same can be said to your comparison with Charles and Harry endeavors, the look at me do proof is hardly there. We only get to know the camera PR ops. As I previously mentioned, following your line, example harry didn't do anything this year for Sentebale and wellchild, pure photo ops at parties and various polo playing, where the 2 brothers participated and shared money earnings for their charities.
So the criticism of Will now includes saying he didn't do things that everyone -- the organization included -- says he did with no evidence at all that he didn't do those things?
Frankly, and IMO of course, the fact that people have to invent things like that to justify how terrible Will is just shows me that on the whole he's doing a pretty good job.
(And as for him not showing up for United for Wildlife -- he created the organization one year ago, and has been to at least five events for it since then, as well as being involved in things like the video game collaboration it launched a few months ago (and, of course, the normal Royal Foundation work that all of his charities take part in). I struggle to understand how five events in one year is somehow not doing enough to show he actually cares about or is involved with this charity -- it's certainly more than most of the Royals do for most charities, including Sentebale.)
Do people actually believe these people work HARD :computer: really ..?
William ,Charles or Harry all are the same to me .
Quote from: Canuck on September 26, 2014, 11:21:32 AM
(And as for him not showing up for United for Wildlife -- he created the organization one year ago, and has been to at least five events for it since then, as well as being involved in things like the video game collaboration it launched a few months ago (and, of course, the normal Royal Foundation work that all of his charities take part in). I struggle to understand how five events in one year is somehow not doing enough to show he actually cares about or is involved with this charity -- it's certainly more than most of the Royals do for most charities, including Sentebale.)
#QueenPurredMoment :hehe:
I struggle to find evidence of William being passionate and dedicated to anything other than flying.
There's nothing wrong with having a passion for flying. At least he's putting his passion to good use.
Cindy
He's supposed to be passionate about his real career--being a future King and senior royal. I think he's in avoidance mode, still. A passionate person would not dither and take transitional years at age 31.
Double post auto-merged: September 26, 2014, 02:18:40 PM
Quote from: Adrienne on September 26, 2014, 01:03:41 AM
Quote from: cinrit on September 25, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
Quote from: Limabeany on September 25, 2014, 10:29:40 PM
Comparing Harry's and Charles charity work with William's is insulting them both. William hasn't done much for any of his charities his entire life, his passion for flying has nothing to do with saving lives, only with continuing to live as a pilot. If he had a passion for saving lives, he would be more involved in many causes addressing saving lives including Wildlife fund, as many of the men who defend the animals from poachers die senseless brutal deaths every year. His work is not work any other qualified pilot could not and would not be doing if space weren't made for him.
His passion for flying has nothing to do with saving lives? He could get a job flying helicopters in other areas ... he could fly a tourist helicopter, he could work for a company that employs helicopters for surveying, or he could do some crop dusting or traffic monitoring. But he chose to work at saving peoples' lives.
Cindy
Good points, Cindy. And, actually, if he really truly only had a passion for flying, he could buy a plane or helicopter and fly it for fun, the way a lot of other rich people do. He certainly has the resources. We wouldn't even necessarily know if that was the case.
How much or how little he does there won't be known by the general public. He is not going to be put in dangerous situations as future King. He could be pulled away from it at any time particularly if there is a terrorist threat to his life. ISIS is ruthless now.
Quote from: cinrit on September 26, 2014, 12:37:28 PM
There's nothing wrong with having a passion for flying. At least he's putting his passion to good use.
Cindy
Avoiding learning the ropes of his real job?
As heir-to-the-heir, Prince William has followed a nearly identical path as his father and his father's adult peers. CP Hussein of Jordan is working on a similar one right now. Earned a university degree, completed military training, served in a branch of the military, made visits throughout the kingdom, represented the monarch on overseas visits and has established a charitable foundation. He's even married and provided an heir with a spare to arrive this spring. He's received one-on-one tutoring from the monarch and the heir as to his future duties. If he had to take on the role tomorrow, I do believe that he would be prepared.
William if the rule is he can't work much because he is "heir to heir" still gets the perks and has many homes. It should apply that the rewards come when he decides to step up and do royal duties full time. The heir to the heir seems to have different meanings when it comes to work and when it comes to perks. He needs to earn them.
Royals are supposed to do more than breeding heirs and spares.
It takes a lot more than one on one tutoring. It takes getting experience. Someone can't slide by saying well I got one on one tutoring what's the point if the work is avoided.
I don't think he's prepared. t would be a trauma for him since he can't escape and play at being normal.
And again we'll have to agree to disagree. Should William become king tomorrow he'd have the advice and support of the government, courtiers, his aunt, uncles, and great-uncles and more than likely that of the other monarchs from around the world. The system to support him has been in place since he reached his adulthood a decade ago just as it was for Elizabeth and Charles. Since that time William's followed the educational/royal world experience path that other heirs to the throne have taken to successfully prepare them for the throne. Even the recent monarchs Albert, W-A, Phillipe, Felipe)had their share of critics and "doomsday" predictions prior to their ascensions. They've reached their ultimate royal role and are having what appears to be successful reigns. Truly I do believe the same will happen for Charles, Haakon, Nahurito, Victoria, Hussein,Catharina-Amalia, Elisabeth,Leonor etc.. and ultimately William.
William's cousins and uncles and aunts won't be monarch. He will. The Queen did not run around gathering relatives to her side to "help her' when she became Queen. She just got on with it and did her best.
I think that is an optimistic picture of William who seems to be doing what it takes to avoid full time royal duties.
Quote from: TLLK on September 26, 2014, 05:49:08 PM
And again we'll have to agree to disagree. Should William become king tomorrow he'd have the advice and support of the government, courtiers, his aunt, uncles, and great-uncles and more than likely that of the other monarchs from around the world. The system to support him has been in place since he reached his adulthood a decade ago just as it was for Elizabeth and Charles. Since that time William's followed the educational/royal world experience path that other heirs to the throne have taken to successfully prepare them for the throne. Even the recent monarchs Albert, W-A, Phillipe, Felipe)had their share of critics and "doomsday" predictions prior to their ascensions. They've reached their ultimate royal role and are having what appears to be successful reigns. Truly I do believe the same will happen for Charles, Haakon, Nahurito, Victoria, Hussein,Catharina-Amalia, Elisabeth,Leonor etc.. and ultimately William.
He has the best private tutoring in BRF history ever. His father, the longest POW and grandmother, the longest reigning Queen, said so by himself.
Quote from: sandy on September 26, 2014, 04:19:26 PM
William if the rule is he can't work much because he is "heir to heir" still gets the perks and has many homes. It should apply that the rewards come when he decides to step up and do royal duties full time. The heir to the heir seems to have different meanings when it comes to work and when it comes to perks. He needs to earn them.
Royals are supposed to do more than breeding heirs and spares.
It takes a lot more than one on one tutoring. It takes getting experience. Someone can't slide by saying well I got one on one tutoring what's the point if the work is avoided.
I don't think he's prepared. t would be a trauma for him since he can't escape and play at being normal.
@sandy - Well said! This is just another Get Out Clause for William and indeed his lazy wife. The want and desire to keep on grabbing the perks and special treatment never seems to fit in with their wanting to be "normal" does it?
Their serfs can't even cough up for a parking fine :
Rules Are Rules (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQqQIoADAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Fsol%2Fhomepage%2Fnews%2F5942597%2FPrince-George-escapes-parking-fine.html&ei=H6slVILZMafP7gaOiIDADw&usg=AFQjCNEx4W5QKBt-PFYdv0dGnTLGBscgvg&bvm=bv.76247554,d.ZGU)? No?
Quote from: wannable on September 26, 2014, 05:59:04 PM
Quote from: TLLK on September 26, 2014, 05:49:08 PM
And again we'll have to agree to disagree. Should William become king tomorrow he'd have the advice and support of the government, courtiers, his aunt, uncles, and great-uncles and more than likely that of the other monarchs from around the world. The system to support him has been in place since he reached his adulthood a decade ago just as it was for Elizabeth and Charles. Since that time William's followed the educational/royal world experience path that other heirs to the throne have taken to successfully prepare them for the throne. Even the recent monarchs Albert, W-A, Phillipe, Felipe)had their share of critics and "doomsday" predictions prior to their ascensions. They've reached their ultimate royal role and are having what appears to be successful reigns. Truly I do believe the same will happen for Charles, Haakon, Nahurito, Victoria, Hussein,Catharina-Amalia, Elisabeth,Leonor etc.. and ultimately William.
He has the best private tutoring in BRF history ever. His father, the longest POW and grandmother, the longest reigning Queen, said so by himself.
Charles worked and was proactive. He did not get by saying he got one on one instruction and tried playing at being normal. No comparison with William. None.
I agree, it is a fallacy to say William is like his father or has followed a path similar to his fahter. At his age Charles had achieved more than a pilot's license and the ability to perform investitures.
Quote from: wannable on September 26, 2014, 05:59:04 PM
He has the best private tutoring in BRF history ever. His father, the longest POW and grandmother, the longest reigning Queen, said so by himself.
And, at 31 the only thing he has to show for it is learning to do investitures at 30?
At 31 he's running his foundation, patron/president of a number of charities, taking part in all of the Prince's Trust meetings, and is working in a public service job.
When the Queen took the throne at a young age, she'd had less experience and preparation -- and she has obviously done just fine. Will will have far more preparation than she did by the time he eventually takes the throne (I'd say he probably already has, and will have another 10-20 years at least).
At 31, he is studying to be a pilot, and not running any foundation, for which he has held an event or two, he is patron of a few charities he has visited once in a blue moon. He is by no means, learning from Charles the Queen or anyone else about a job he will be inheriting which includes the Prince's Trust and the Duchy of Cornwall. He is simply hiding his head in the sand pretending he isn't royal and not putting much effort into the future which grants him the status to get any pilot job he wants.
William runs nothing (apart from away from his Royal duties).
He even seems really distant with his own child. Any chance of seeing him walking in the park with baby George. We've seen Kate and the Nanny...why no William? He really is a spoilt grown man-child. IMO.
Good grief those two really deserve each other.
Quote from: Canuck on September 26, 2014, 06:53:39 PM
At 31 he's running his foundation, patron/president of a number of charities, taking part in all of the Prince's Trust meetings, and is working in a public service job.
When the Queen took the throne at a young age, she'd had less experience and preparation -- and she has obviously done just fine. Will will have far more preparation than she did by the time he eventually takes the throne (I'd say he probably already has, and will have another 10-20 years at least).
No comparison with the Queen. Her father was ailing and the Queen as Princess was busy with royal duties, had access to State Papers, and pinch hit for her father. She did not wake up one day and said gosh I want to fly some copters and live like other people. She was totally attuned to her future role as Queen even at a young age.
Nobody knows when William will be on the throne.
Quote from: cinrit on September 25, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
Quote from: Limabeany on September 25, 2014, 10:29:40 PM
any other qualified pilot could not and would not be doing if space weren't made for him.
His passion for flying has nothing to do with saving lives? He could get a job flying helicopters in other areas ... he could fly a tourist helicopter, he could work for a company that employs helicopters for surveying, or he could do some crop dusting or traffic monitoring. But he chose to work at saving peoples' lives.
Cindy
well not really, as a Senior Royal he can't really work in antying commercial, and he has to use his skill in a military or humanitarian context
Double post auto-merged: September 27, 2014, 02:10:57 PM
Quote from: SophieChloe on September 26, 2014, 07:03:54 PM
William runs nothing (apart from away from his Royal duties).
He even seems really distant with his own child. Any chance of seeing him walking in the park with baby George. We've seen Kate and the Nanny...why no William? He really is a spoilt grown man-child. IMO.
Good grief those two really deserve each other.
perhaps he prefers ot keep being with his child in private.