The Duke of York's Legal Issues Part Two

[TLLK]

When will Andrew and  Fergie stop this ridiculous crusade to have him reinstated back into the working royal group. Having Beatrice and Eugenie pleading to their uncle was a useless stunt IMO. I am pleased that the Queen and Charles have made it clear that he's not returning.


"Beatrice and Eugenie 'BEGGED Charles to let shamed Andrew back in from the cold' | Daily Mail Online

Prince Andrew's daughters Beatrice and Eugenie reportedly begged Prince Charles to let their father back in from the cold - but the future king rebutted their pleas following the Jeffrey Epstein scandal.

The Duke of York, 62, saw his royal career and in disgrace when he paid millions of pounds in an out-of-court settlement to his sex abuse accuser Virginia Giuffre amid accusations she was trafficked by Epstein. 

The Queen had weeks earlier rejected her second-eldest son's bid to have his royal roles reinstated as he clamours for a new position to see out his days.

And now Charles is understood to remain 'resolute' that his mother's decision to strip Andrew of his royal roles and the use of the HRH title most remain in place, adding: 'There's no chance.'

It comes after he held a summit with Beatrice and Eugenie at the Birkhall Estate in Aberdeenshire, The Sun on Sunday reports.

That meeting followed a 'business meeting' with Andrew at the same venue days earlier.

Andrew no longer undertakes official royal duties. The current day-to-day activities of the disgraced prince are unknown beyond horse riding and regular visits to the Queen.

He spent three days locked in 'intense talks' with the Queen and is said to have been the only family member to visit the monarch, 96, at the start of her Balmoral break in the Scottish Highlands this month

But Charles remains firmly of the belief that there should be no return to royal duties for the duke.

[Curryong]

The Queen and Pr Charles will continue with the present course of dealing with Andrew simply because, above all else, it would be PR suicide for the monarchy to bring him back into the fold. However, all this tabloid talk of urgent meetings and Balmoral summits on his behalf is completely OTT in my opinion.

Andrew knows the score, so do Beatrice and Eugenie. What would be the point of them arguing for his return? Andrew may hold a sliver of hope that in maybe four or five years he could slither back but it must be a tiny fading glimmer of a thing by now. It?s done, finished. He?d be better off filling his time with hobbies and pastimes and perhaps a business interest or two, if he actually has money to invest.

[Nightowl]

When will Andrew and  Fergie stop this ridiculous crusade to have him reinstated back into the working royal group. Having Beatrice and Eugenie pleading to their uncle was a useless stunt IMO. I am pleased that the Queen and Charles have made it clear that he's not returning.


"Beatrice and Eugenie 'BEGGED Charles to let shamed Andrew back in from the cold' | Daily Mail Online

His spending HM's time when she is resting and trying to enjoy what time she can have at Balmoral, her happy place  in life shows just how selfish and cruel this man who is her son is....why didn't someone kick his butt out the door and lock it behind him.  And of all people to get his daughters involved in his troubles and problems shows how thoughtless he is.....Andrew only thinks of *Andrew* like some in Ca think the same of themselves....I don't see Beatrice being on board for a comeback for her father yet Eugenie yes.....I believe that Eugenie thinks her dad is never wrong and her dislike of the Cambridges is well known.....Charles is becoming tougher as the days grow long and William is already a strong tough young man who will not let either Andrew or Harry back in the Firm.   William is in my opinion not afraid of the hard road in life if it is the right road to take.....I admire that in him.

[Amabel2]

how is Eugenie's dislike of the Cambridgres well known?  Im pretty sure she has never said anyting of that nature

[Amabel2]

I dont think htat Andrew is trying to get back into royal duties.  he may want to, he may even try to go to individual things like Philips service, or the like but I think he knows that its very unlikely that he can ever work as a royal again... and he is at least doing some good keeping the queen company and cheering her up....

[Nightowl]

how is Eugenie's dislike of the Cambridgres well known?  Im pretty sure she has never said anyting of that nature

No, Eugenie has never come out and said anything in public, yet I have seen pictures of her showing her anger at William and there was an event, wish I could remember where she and her sister were at with the entire royal family and the coldness between her and the Cambridges was very evident.  Over time her friendship with Harry and Meghan has been known and nothing wrong with that yet her dislike of the Cambridges  is widely known. Maybe it is in some ways related to the fact that her dad is put on notice that he can not resume his duties because of his friendship with JE.  Also being friends with the Sussex's is making maybe some very leery of talking to her for it might be reported to the Sussex's who we know tells the media.  *Trust* is broken with the Sussex's and the royal family and I think sides have been taken because of the actions/behavior of the Sussex's with the Oprah interview and other reports of them talking to the media. What a mess the Sussex's have created for themselves and the royal family...very sad indeed because playing 2nd fiddle to me means more freedom and less drama from the public as at the beginning the Sussex's  were welcomed by the public with open arms and they blew it.

[Nightowl]

I dont think htat Andrew is trying to get back into royal duties.  he may want to, he may even try to go to individual things like Philips service, or the like but I think he knows that its very unlikely that he can ever work as a royal again... and he is at least doing some good keeping the queen company and cheering her up....

Oh I know the type of man Andrew is and that type is always wanting to be seen and heard and out front....I really think he wants back in the Firm as he has never been tried in a trial by a jury yet his friendship with JE has brought him down to where he is today. His choices, nobody else made those choices but him and he is NOT accepting responsibility for his choices or behavior.  So he I think keeps the drama going with HM and the family all because of that.....no guilty verdict yet he can never deny he was with JE many many times even in NY where he was photographed looking out the door of JE's home.  Andrew is an arrogant ignorant fool and HM and Charles with William will never let him back in the Firm again..because if they did, that might be the end of the monarchy for good.  The public I believe  do not want friendships with people like JE in the royal family as that is not the good example they are working to be for the country. 

[Amabel2]

I dont know where you are getting this idea from.  I dont know of any hard evidence that Andrew does not accept that his working life as  a royal is over.  He  may be angry about it, he may wish it was different but I think he accepts that he cannot work, and has to retire as he has been retired for 2 years.  He has been to Philips memorial service and I think he went to the private Garter ceremony, but other than that I know of no sign that he's trying to get back to public life. 

[Amabel2]

No, Eugenie has never come out and said anything in public, yet I have seen pictures of her showing her anger at William and there was an event, wish I could remember where she and her sister were at with the entire royal family and the coldness between her and the Cambridges was very evident.  Over time her friendship with Harry and Meghan has been known and nothing wrong with that yet her dislike of the Cambridges  is widely known. Maybe it is in some ways related to the fact that her dad is put on notice that he can not resume his duties because of his friendship with JE.  Also being friends with the Sussex's is making maybe some very leery of talking to her for it might be reported to the Sussex's who we know tells the media.  *Trust* is broken with the Sussex's and the royal family and I think sides have been taken because of the actions/behavior of the Sussex's with the Oprah interview and other reports of them talking to the media. What a mess the Sussex's have created for themselves and the royal family...very sad indeed because playing 2nd fiddle to me means more freedom and less drama from the public as at the beginning the Sussex's  were welcomed by the public with open arms and they blew it.

where is this evidence?  I think htat trying to guess what people are feeling from a brief photographic shot is very dubious, quite honestly.   she may be friendly iwth Harry, that does not mean that she dislikes William.....and I dont know of any real sign that she's on bad terms with the Cambridges, who are clealry trying to keep up a polite front with Harry....

[Curryong]

where is this evidence?  I think htat trying to guess what people are feeling from a brief photographic shot is very dubious, quite honestly.   she may be friendly iwth Harry, that does not mean that she dislikes William.....and I dont know of any real sign that she's on bad terms with the Cambridges, who are clealry trying to keep up a polite front with Harry....

An elderly article describing the background.
Kate Middleton news: Behind Duchess? ?distant relationship? with Princess Beatrice | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

I?ve read about coldness between Kate and the York Princesses for years, way way back in the years when Kate was first going out with William. There was one story that was very well known that Kate had invited Beatrice to a party but hadn?t told her that it was a themed roller derby party held at a skating rink. Beatrice arrived with boyfriend in tow in completely the wrong outfit (as was the boyfriend) and was humiliated. She was seen in the toilets at the locale in tears.

Whatever the truth of that I?ve never seen the Yorkies actively publicly seek Kate out for a chat at family get togethers since the early days of Kate being on the scene. Harry welcomed her but William and Kate never went to clubs with Eugenie in the way that Harry did in his twenties.

Andrew may well have expressed annoyance in front of them too that his girls were being squeezed out of the public eye by the advent of Kate, and that may have influenced things. And William not inviting Fergie to his wedding apparently bit hard. Fergie and her daughters are as close as peas in a pod.

[Nightowl]

I dont know where you are getting this idea from.  I dont know of any hard evidence that Andrew does not accept that his working life as  a royal is over.  He  may be angry about it, he may wish it was different but I think he accepts that he cannot work, and has to retire as he has been retired for 2 years.  He has been to Philips memorial service and I think he went to the private Garter ceremony, but other than that I know of no sign that he's trying to get back to public life.

I don't think Andrew accepts being left out of the Firm at all, he is from all that has been shown for decades a very selfish ego manic type of person. It has been reported  for years he treats his staff mean and nasty and just recently he had his daughters talk to Charles to help get him back in the Firm.  I got all this from some news alerts from around the world, gads the news alerts I get are huge, way to many at times.  Sure he went to Philips memorial with HM and caused a stir .....Andrew is not the type of man who will ride off into the sunset and leave this earth...he will leave this earth kicking and screaming he has more to do, riding horses and riding more horses can only last so long.  He I believe craves making deals, being out front, in the news, doing things with a schedule as that has been his whole life.....retiring behind closed doors....NO NO, that is not Andrew.

[Amabel2]

sorry but news alerts are not proof of what is said in private conversations within hte RF.  Yes I think that Andrew will never give up hoping a bit that he can return to work but I think in essence he knows he cant.  He will probalby be seen occasionally at events but he cannot work as a royal and that's been made clear to him.  I dont know of any evidence that the daughters have been lobbying for him to come back to royal duties.   and if waht Andrew wants is to do deals etc, he can probably do that provided he keeps it careful and private.  It is public work that he cant do...

[wannable]

I dont know where you are getting this idea from.  I dont know of any hard evidence that Andrew does not accept that his working life as  a royal is over.  He  may be angry about it, he may wish it was different but I think he accepts that he cannot work, and has to retire as he has been retired for 2 years.  He has been to Philips memorial service and I think he went to the private Garter ceremony, but other than that I know of no sign that he's trying to get back to public life. 

I somewhat agree with your point.  Surely he knows that nobody in the UK want him as a senior working royal, especially all his ex charities and ex military appointments that don't want him and factually moved to make him quit. 

There is no minor working royal and never was. There was a lot of senior working royals, but the slim down British Monarchy is here to stay.

What he may feel is that when the Queen passes, his sister and brother are yet senior working royals and may still be with Charles. Whilst by his own actions is banned forever.

He should seek an occupation based on his golf probably. I'm being serious, within a sport, he can find something good to do.

*****
In reference to Bea and Eugenie, they went with their respective partners to Kate's charity fundraiser (her charities including the NHS mental health department) Christmas Carol Concert at Westminster 2021 (ITV, Kate played the piano). What may have happened when she was W girlfriend, 20 years ago, people mature. OR they are divisive like their dad (and mom), which can also happen. Children from broken parents in it's majority have adult issues.

[Amabel2]

I think that Andrew is pretty stupid, but since i dont know of any evidence that he or his girlss are hassling the queen and Charles to get back to work, I will take it that he's not doing so. I cant see the girls doing it certianly.  Bea accepted that her fathers would not even appear in her wedding photos, and Im sure had Eugenie been the one getting married at that stage she would have done the same.  Im sure that in part of his mind, Andrew does feel "given time maybe I'll be needed" but after 2 years I think he must realise that that is a forlorn hope, however much it may annoy him.

[sara8150]

Prince Andrew sex abuse accuser Virginia Giuffre will be freed from gagging clause | Daily Mail Online

[sara8150]

Prince Andrew sex abuse accuser's gagging order is due to be lifted within weeks - Mirror Online

Andrew 'braces for fresh sex abuse storm as accuser Virginia Giuffre?s gag lifted in DAYS' a year after ??3m settlement? | The Sun

[TLLK]

Ghislaine Maxwell calls Prince Andrew photo with Virginia Giuffre ?a fake? | Ghislaine Maxwell | The Guardian

Ghislaine Maxwell has questioned the authenticity of a photograph that came to symbolise Virginia Giuffre?s sexual abuse allegations against Prince Andrew, amid reports the Duke of York is considering overturning his settlement.

In a video interview from prison, Maxwell who appears in the infamous 2001 photograph alongside the then 17-year-old Giuffre as Andrew holds her semi-bare waist, said: ?I don?t believe it?s real for a second.?

Speaking from a Florida prison where she is serving 20 years for procuring teenage girls for the sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, Maxwell added: ?It?s a fake ? there?s never been an original and further there is no photograph. I?ve only ever seen a photocopy of it.?

Clips of the interview conducted in August by the journalist Daphne Barak have been released by TalkTV, which is due to broadcast a fuller version on Monday evening in its Jeremy Kyle Live show.

In 2019 Andrew told Newsnight that he had no recollection of ever meeting Giuffre and claimed the photograph may have been doctored.

Last year, Andrew settled a sexual assault case filed against him by Giuffre for an undisclosed sum reported to be up ?3m.

In a report for the Sun on Sunday, Barak claimed that Andrew is consulting lawyers about overturning that settlement. There has been no confirmation of the claim from Buckingham Palace or the lawyers reported to be involved.

Lisa Bloom, a Los Angeles lawyer who represents some of Epstein?s victims, said Andrew would have no chance of overturning the settlement with Giuffre.

[Curryong]

Well, of course Ghislaine Maxwell is going to question the authenticity of that photo of Andrew, Virginia and herself! She?s been a friend of Andrew?s for twenty years or more. She is also a convicted felon, a sex trafficker and a liar.

I doubt that Andrew will appeal, anyway. He couldn?t have moved more swiftly to pay out and get away from the case if he?d tried. And he wants it all brought back again and raked over by the Press? I think it?s obvious the tabloids would love it, especially the rotten Sun where this report originated, but nobody else. Certainly not the Palace!

[HistoryGirl2]

All of this is so tiresome and disgraceful. The farther away he is from any public facing role, the better, and her words are hardly anything I?d take to the bank.

[TLLK]

Yes I'm not sure that Ghislaine Maxwell is the person I want to continue to have my name associated with and to "boost" my integrity.

[Nightowl]

Absolutely agree with you on that, yet I think Andrew is so desperate to be back in the graces of the royal family and the Firm he without thinking would jump at any chance and anybody to help him get back in. He is a user of people, as an arrogant fool he acts like the people that work for him are beneath him in status and privilege.   I really don't think the Firm will ever let him back in yet he is not shunned from family events as he has never been  convicted of any crime or even tried as a person of interest in this debacle of JE.   Such a person of low self esteem as Andrew is by showing he will do anything to get back in favor with the public and the Firm.   Can't someone have an heart to heart and honest conversation with him and tell him straight out to get a life outside the public.   He seeks acceptance, admiration, and self-worth by the public as he is not getting that from anyone else, reminds me of the non-royals in Ca who seek the same.

[Amabel2]

there is no evidence that Andrew is trying to get back to a public role. IMO what he misses is the chance to meet rich people and do deals, and while he would have to be careful who he assocaties with now, he can still do that in private.  But Im sure he realises that charities wont work with him any more and probably never would do so even if he were a younger man with a longer working life...
However I doubt if Andrew really wuold miss going to open an old people's home or the like... so I think he accepts that he's now restricted to private life

[wannable]

He's not. Neil Sean has said Fergie and him are at Windsor minding their own business, haven't spoken to anyone about Virginia, HRH status, BP movers, nothing. Neil said he knows who is spreading the lies (latest Andrew headlines) a top position person in Channel 4 (UK) with no connection with the BRF.

^ A distraction method, the fall guy, don't touch our American Ex Presidents and other very famous people.

[Curryong]

Or a top guy at Channel 4 who knows what Andrew is really up to.

And Neil Sean, whose expert at telling more than a few porkies himself, is standing up for Andrew is he? Is Neil there beside the phone when Andrew calls his lawyers? And ex Presidents? Nobody in the US is worried that Clinton is going to be exposed. That ship sailed a long long time ago.

[wannable]

Just the messenger of 30 year RR Neil Sean.