Diana's Life and charity endavours - what could have been

QueenAlex · March 22, 2020, 11:12:51 PM

Quote from: sandy on March 22, 2020, 11:09:54 PM
Her brother should have known better, he knew how he was devoted to William and Harry and would not move away from them. She might have had a "vacation home" somewhere but she would be near the boys. She could never have taken them on any permanent basis if she moved out of the country.

Since they were at boarding school she was not seeing them all the time anyway.. so why not move out of England where she felt the press were so unkind ot her? She could still come home and see them durng holidays or take tehm away for a holiday.....
and if Charles Spencer said she talked of getting away from England.. then unless he was lying,,, she DID talk about getting away from England. So what should he hhave "known better"?

sandy · March 22, 2020, 11:14:43 PM

Why would she leave her sons? She never indicated she would not "remove herself" to another country. She was very involved with them. She would not want to leave them with the royals to raise.Not all of England was unkind to her.

QueenAlex · March 22, 2020, 11:17:34 PM

Quote from: sandy on March 22, 2020, 11:14:43 PM
Why would she leave her sons? She never indicated she would not "remove herself" to another country. She was very involved with them. She would not want to leave them with the royals to raise.Not all of England was unkind to her.

But they were at school.. and they were alos 50% of their free time with the RF.. So she only saw them for limited amounts of time. She could spend as much time with them and live outside the UK...And according to her own brother, she did talk about removing herself to another country...

sandy · March 22, 2020, 11:21:25 PM

Diana was not planning to leave the uK no matter where her sons were. I read accounts of this during her last year that she did not want to move and leave her sons. She did not just have "limited" time with them. Her brother IMO does not know what he is talking about.

QueenAlex · March 22, 2020, 11:30:44 PM

Quote from: sandy on March 22, 2020, 11:21:25 PM
Diana was not planning to leave the uK no matter where her sons were. I read accounts of this during her last year that she did not want to move and leave her sons. She did not just have "limited" time with them. Her brother IMO does not know what he is talking about.

Why would he say soemthing if it wasn't true? What had he to gain by saying this, if it wasn't true? I would assume that as she was his sister, he DID know what he was talking about when he said that she was keen on getitng out of the UK. She DID have limited time with them.. they were at school most of the year. for their holidays they spent half the time with Charles.. so her time was limited to half of their holiday time.

sandy · March 22, 2020, 11:46:51 PM

I read that her friends like Rosa Monckton maintained she would not leave her sons and move to another country. It should not be forgotten she would have had to get permission about vacation venues from the Queen, when she wanted to take them on vacation. It would be a nightmare for her if Will and Harry were not allowed to go to her "new place." Her brother can say a lot of things and his sister can't refute them anymore. It's not as if she would 'rarely' see them.

QueenAlex · March 22, 2020, 11:56:29 PM

Quote from: sandy on March 22, 2020, 11:46:51 PM
I read that her friends like Rosa Monckton maintained she would not leave her sons and move to another country. It should not be forgotten she would have had to get permission about vacation venues from the Queen, when she wanted to take them on vacation. It would be a nightmare for her if Will and Harry were not allowed to go to her "new place." Her brother can say a lot of things and his sister can't refute them anymore. It's not as if she would 'rarely' see them.

why wodl he say anything? If it wasn't true.
And I presume that if wherever she wanted or to take them to, was safe there would be no problem with getting permission from the queen for them to spend holdiays times with her. Or she could come back to London to spend the summer with them.. She would only see them during half of their school holiday time. THat was the way it was.. they were at school.. and half of their holiday time was spent with the queen and Charles.

sandy · March 23, 2020, 12:01:29 AM

He's not Diana.

I think Diana had more time with them than the way you describe it.

QueenAlex · March 23, 2020, 12:04:41 AM

Quote from: sandy on March 23, 2020, 12:01:29 AM
He's not Diana.

I think Diana had more time with them than the way you describe it.

but she didn't. She went to see them sometimes during term time. otherwise, she saw them during HOlidays, and half of the holidays had to be spent with Charles. That is why they were at Balmoral while she was in Paris with Dodi.

Princess Cassandra · March 23, 2020, 03:22:36 AM

Quote from: QueenAlex on March 22, 2020, 08:21:56 PM
I am sure that she didn't want to be in the news for her private life.. and I think she'd have been happier if she had given up on the public appearcnes for charity. She had a gift for people.. but she was tired out with the stress of public appearances.. and didn't seem able to commit to charit work... But maybe if she had give up public life and done something privately, lived quietly on her income and found a few nice men to date, she would have been happier. THe press would have followed her for a few year with the " who is Di going to marry" but when she reached forty they might well have cooled down on that story...

I know she didn't like the press interfering in her private life, but I think they always would have done. And I'll always think of her as a person who was often very unhappy. Those final pictures of her in Africa with children injured by landmines were amazing. There was no faking how she felt about those children. Perhaps she had done as you say and given up on all but the things she really felt moved to do.

oak_and_cedar · March 23, 2020, 08:56:18 AM

Quote from: QueenAlex on March 22, 2020, 10:39:52 PM
But she didn't do deeper work. That may have been her idea at first but instead of learning about charities in depth, she seems to have done less for the few charities she kept... which annoyed some of them. She talked about dropping the Red Cross.. and taking up wrok with the Fayeds, which showed to me that she was very vague and uncertain what she was doing.
If she wasn't considering leaving the UK how come her brother said she "talked endlessly of getting away from Engladn?"

Respectfully, the talk of charities with the Fayeds is hearsay. It's claimed by one journalist. For all we know MAF perhaps suggested something to Diana which she then mentioned in passing?

Her planning with charities in the UK shows that she was independent in that regard.

She was in all likelyhood exasperated with the press in the UK. It was IMO her venting. But she would not leave a 12 year old child and a 15 year old one. And I think she tried to keep in contact as often as she could while her children were away in private school.

When Burrell was arrested, if I remember correctly, the police found many, many letters to the princes from Diana, which he then had taken. So I think she was active in their lives whichever way she could.

I don't think she would have left the UK. I think she would have married and settled down not too far from PW and PH.

QueenAlex · March 23, 2020, 09:52:50 AM

Quote from: Princess Cassandra on March 23, 2020, 03:22:36 AM
I know she didn't like the press interfering in her private life, but I think they always would have done. And I'll always think of her as a person who was often very unhappy. Those final pictures of her in Africa with children injured by landmines were amazing. There was no faking how she felt about those children. Perhaps she had done as you say and given up on all but the things she really felt moved to do.

Yes I think her feelings for helping other people were genuine.. but she was never 100% steady in her commitment to things. Perhaps if her private life had been happier and more settled she might have found it easier to make commitments. But in her last year or 2, her charities said that they felt she had a lot going on in her life and they accepted that she wasn't always willing/able to commit to work things. I think that she was worried about being alone, and preoccupied with her private life and trying to manage the press..
but I do think if she had kept things quiet for a few years, the press would get bored and move on to greener pastures... esp as she got older....which is why I think leading a quiet private life, doing perhaps some hands on charity wrok, would have given her satisfaction and kept the press in a state of gradually losing interest.. Diana dating was going to be an interesting story for them.. but Diana living quietly, would gradually become less interesting....

Double post auto-merged: March 23, 2020, 09:56:01 AM

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on March 23, 2020, 08:56:18 AM
Respectfully, the talk of charities with the Fayeds is hearsay. It's claimed by one journalist. For all we know MAF perhaps suggested something to Diana which she then mentioned in passing?

Her planning with charities in the UK shows that she was independent in that regard.

She was in all likelyhood exasperated with the press in the UK. It was IMO her venting. But she would not leave a 12 year old child and a 15 year old one. And I think she tried to keep in contact as often as she could while her children were away in private school.

When Burrell was arrested, if I remember correctly, the police found many, many letters to the princes from Diana, which he then had taken. So I think she was active in their lives whichever way she could.

I don't think she would have left the UK. I think she would have married and settled down not too far from PW and PH.

of course she loved the children, adored them... but she was not in their lives day in day out. she had enough money to spend more time abroad and to come home when she could spend time with them.. which was mostly half the holidays.... sicne they were spending time with Charles and the RF durng the other half of their holiday time. Di was rich enough to fly into London and visit them at School the odd weekend... according to some reports she considered living in S Africa, which was close enough to the UK to fly back home easily...

Double post auto-merged: March 23, 2020, 10:59:44 AM

Quote from: Curryong on March 22, 2020, 08:54:34 PM
You keep saying that Diana couldn't commit to charity work, presumably in that brief year she had to live after her divorce, in spite of evidence to the contrary about the Landmines endeavour and the selling of many of her iconic clothes for charity.

Why did she have to live quietly? Not go to parties, mix with any celebrities, some of whom had been her friends for years? Never go out socialising, travelling, to parties?

And why did she have to 'find a few nice men to date'? Presumably Hasnet Khan wasn't 'nice' or acceptable.

A

However, if you think that the tabloids wouldn't have done the same sort of thing with Diana then I've got a bridge to sell you. She remained at the time of her death the most famous woman in the world and that gravy train meant millions to the media during her lifetime.

at the age of 36, yes. In another 5 to 10 years, I think the interest would have diminished. Esp if Diana really DID lead a quiet life without much public appearances. the press was in it for the money.. if the public got bored or there was simply no story other than vague speculation, I think it would diminish and the press would move on to the next glamour girl.
And I think leading a quiet life would have been better for her, as well as good in terms of keeping the press at bay. She could still see her friends but if she kept RPOs, and kept her life low key, she could keep the press at bay bit by bit..
as for men, She and Hasnat Khan had parted ways by the last few months, as you know. Their affair had lwasy been a difficult one, with him not being happy with the idea of a permanent commitment.. not because he didn't love her but because he did not want to be part of the public circus nad he did not want to upset his parents by such a marriage. He loved her but it wasn't working out. So Diana clearly thought it was time to move on. unfortunately she moved on to someone whose father WANTED the whole circus to continue, who didn't care for her deeply. So I think if she gave up on Khan, she was In dire need of a nice man who could handle a certain amount of press attention, who was rich enough to help her keep it at bay and who would be good to her.

sandy · March 23, 2020, 11:48:39 AM

I doubt it would have diminished. Much interest would be when Diana's first grandchild arrived for example. DIana was not one to sit back and do nothing, she was motivate and proactive. Why should she have to "hide out" because of the press?

Hasnet Khan wanted the relationship but did not want to go public.

There is no proof at all that Diana was planning to marry Dodi Fayed. She also was not going to rush into another marriage.

Double post auto-merged: March 23, 2020, 11:49:56 AM

Quote from: QueenAlex on March 23, 2020, 12:04:41 AM
but she didn't. She went to see them sometimes during term time. otherwise, she saw them during HOlidays, and half of the holidays had to be spent with Charles. That is why they were at Balmoral while she was in Paris with Dodi.

Unless you lived her life you don't know how much time she spent with them.

QueenAlex · March 23, 2020, 12:26:28 PM

Sandy yes we do know how much time she spent with them. They were at school most of the year. She could have them home for the odd weekend or visit tehm during term time but not too often. And when they had holidays, according to their custody agreement they had to spend half the time with their father. so she only had half their holiday time. That's not a huge amount of time. That's why they were in Balmoral when she died and she was away on holiday, because they had to spend half their hols with Charles.
And IMO living a quiet life was the only way to avoid the press attention that Diana claimed she hated and found stressful. If she was leading a quiet life, and kept her RPOs, the press would lose interest as she got older. So she would have a less stressed life, she might have more satisfaction from keeping away from public appearances and doing her own thing privately....

dianab · March 23, 2020, 01:30:04 PM

It's well known the times that charles and diana had with their sons.

Definitely she traveled a lot when they were at school or with charles.

Diana move to another country will be a natural move than was her lifestyle since she got separated.

dianab · March 23, 2020, 01:33:07 PM

Diana on the cover continued to sell many magazines in summer/97

dianab · March 23, 2020, 01:34:39 PM

i believe she'll move to another country but will continue with her public humanitarian work.

sandy · March 23, 2020, 02:07:03 PM

She did not get bad press because of Dodi, The last cover story she had while still alive was People's A Guy For Di. I did not see any negativity here. She was dating she was divorced, she did not elope with him. 40 or 45 is not "old." SHe was not getting a "lot" of criticism as I recall. She was not flitting that last year,. I disagree with your put downs of her. How many of us can have accomplished what she did in that one year. How many received praise from Mandela. I saw no flitting.

QueenAlex · March 23, 2020, 02:15:57 PM

Quote from: sandy on March 23, 2020, 02:07:03 PM
She did not get bad press because of Dodi, The last cover story she had while still alive was People's A Guy For Di. I did not see any negativity here. She was dating she was divorced, she did not elope with him. 40 or 45 is not "old." SHe was not getting a "lot" of criticism as I recall. She was not flitting that last year,. I disagree with your put downs of her. How many of us can have accomplished what she did in that one year. How many received praise from Mandela. I saw no flitting.

She may have still been liked In America, but she was less popular here. As you know. the Sudnay papers had to pull negative stories about her when she died so suddenly... because she was getting a lot of negative commentary...

sandy · March 23, 2020, 02:25:01 PM

I know people in the UK and they found DIana popular and liked her. I never saw "a lot" of negativity about her.

oak_and_cedar · March 24, 2020, 06:49:57 PM

Quote from: QueenAlex on March 23, 2020, 09:52:50 AM

of course she loved the children, adored them... but she was not in their lives day in day out. she had enough money to spend more time abroad and to come home when she could spend time with them.. which was mostly half the holidays.... sicne they were spending time with Charles and the RF durng the other half of their holiday time. Di was rich enough to fly into London and visit them at School the odd weekend... according to some reports she considered living in S Africa, which was close enough to the UK to fly back home easily...
Double post auto-merged: March 23, 2020, 10:59:44 AM

at the age of 36, yes. In another 5 to 10 years, I think the interest would have diminished. Esp if Diana really DID lead a quiet life without much public appearances. the press was in it for the money.. if the public got bored or there was simply no story other than vague speculation, I think it would diminish and the press would move on to the next glamour girl.
And I think leading a quiet life would have been better for her, as well as good in terms of keeping the press at bay. She could still see her friends but if she kept RPOs, and kept her life low key, she could keep the press at bay bit by bit..
as for men, She and Hasnat Khan had parted ways by the last few months, as you know. Their affair had lwasy been a difficult one, with him not being happy with the idea of a permanent commitment.. not because he didn't love her but because he did not want to be part of the public circus nad he did not want to upset his parents by such a marriage. He loved her but it wasn't working out. So Diana clearly thought it was time to move on. unfortunately she moved on to someone whose father WANTED the whole circus to continue, who didn't care for her deeply. So I think if she gave up on Khan, she was In dire need of a nice man who could handle a certain amount of press attention, who was rich enough to help her keep it at bay and who would be good to her.

I don't think that Diana spent time with her children mostly on the holidays only. There are paparazzi pictures of Diana spending time with William and Harry and being out and about in London even during the school year. I think she was always on 'stand by' in case they needed her. Besides that we don't know how often they communicated via phones and letters. And how often she visited them at school.

Also, her office was in London, and her work was centered there.

I don't think that Diana seriously considered moving away from England. For one, I don't think she would have left, say, a 12 year old Harry and moved to SA, for instance. And even if she waited until he was 15-18 she might have met someone and settled down in the UK. IMO she didn't intend to leave.

This is just my opinion, but I don't think the relationship with Diana and Khan was some big love story. Diana had good instincts about people, and her moving on very fast shows that something was amiss. But this is just my opinion. I think she was quite happy moving on, which showed in the pictures of her during her summer.

I think Fayed was quite interested in Diana, and was serious in courting her.

IMO Diana wasn't all that interested in her partners income. She was after all a millionaire in her own right, had started to invest her money, and if she really was only interest in wealthy men she wouldn't have gotten involved with Khan for two years.

QueenAlex · March 24, 2020, 07:26:45 PM

She did visit them at school but she could not do that all that often. She had a few weeks in the summer, and a week or so at Xmas and Easter..
She looked into getting Hasnat Khan a job in S Africa, when she was seeing him, because she thought it was a place she could live with or marry him, so she must have considered moving there.

She moved on quicikly because she had finally realised that the relationship with Khan wasn't likely to end in marriage.. because he did not really believe ti would be possible for them to be married. She certainly was very much in love with him and put up with the problems for 2 years because of that love.. but I dont think she was likely to break up with a man until she had another one, however temporary, to take his palce. So when she met Dodi, she was willing to end things with Hasnat Khan.. who was hurt but realised that their relationship was never going to become a permanent one. So yes IMO if the Khan relationship had worked out, she would have been wiling to move to S Africa, fi they could have been together there.

Curryong · March 24, 2020, 07:53:47 PM

However much time Diana spent or didn't spend with her children due to boarding school terms, Charles spent less.

With the exception of the few days of Xmases spent with the other royals and the biannual Balmoral summer holiday, later spent at Birkhall when the boys were older, he was at work for their holidays.

That was one of the reasons Mark Dyer and Tiggy were employed after the separation. They were less big brother and big sister than pseudo parents. He was said to have regretted spending little time with the boys, especially the teenage Harry, at Highgrove. People who put their work and duties above their children when they are young and need them, almost always regret it later.

QueenAlex · March 24, 2020, 08:00:11 PM

Quote from: Curryong on March 24, 2020, 07:53:47 PM
However much time Diana spent or didn't spend with her children due to boarding school terms, Charles spent less.

With the exception of the few days of Xmases spent with the other royals and the biannual Balmoral summer holiday, later spent at Birkhall when the boys were older, he was at work for their holidays.

That was one of the reasons Mark Dyer and Tiggy were employed after the separation. They were less big brother and big sister than pseudo parents. He was said to have regretted spending little time with the boys, especially the teenage Harry, at Highgrove. People who put their work and duties above their children when they are young and need them, almost always regret it later.

but that's not the point. the point is that Diana was restricted in how much time she saw the children because they were at Boarding school... and because they had to spend time with the queen and their father as well.

oak_and_cedar · March 24, 2020, 09:11:14 PM

Quote from: QueenAlex on March 24, 2020, 07:26:45 PM
She did visit them at school but she could not do that all that often. She had a few weeks in the summer, and a week or so at Xmas and Easter..
She looked into getting Hasnat Khan a job in S Africa, when she was seeing him, because she thought it was a place she could live with or marry him, so she must have considered moving there.

She moved on quicikly because she had finally realised that the relationship with Khan wasn't likely to end in marriage.. because he did not really believe ti would be possible for them to be married. She certainly was very much in love with him and put up with the problems for 2 years because of that love.. but I dont think she was likely to break up with a man until she had another one, however temporary, to take his palce. So when she met Dodi, she was willing to end things with Hasnat Khan.. who was hurt but realised that their relationship was never going to become a permanent one. So yes IMO if the Khan relationship had worked out, she would have been wiling to move to S Africa, fi they could have been together there.

Diana visited them at school, went on vacation with them, they probably saw her on days off, and she went out with them from time to time when they could.

They went to private schools and my guess is that Diana had the same amount of visitation of any parent who?s children went to private school.

William was 15 and Harry 12 and both had been to private schools since the age of nine. Diana separated from PC in 92 and divorced him in 96. She herself was not required to remain in England yet she stayed and made it her base. I think that?s very telling.

Also, Prince William was interviewed in the documentary or one of the articles about his mother. In it he said something about Diana coming and getting the children ?worked up? and then leaving. The implication was that she would pop in unannounced from time to time. That means that he believes that she would be nearby. That is also telling IMO.

Who says Diana wanted to marry Khan? Was it really that serious?

We don't know the dynamics of the relationship and Diana isn't here to tell us her version. But why is Diana made out to be someone who is unrealistic and who Khan had to 'snap back to reality' or give a 'reality check' to?

It could very well have been Khan asking for second chances and promising to improve. We simply don't know. But I don't think that Diana was clingy or desperate.

I think she had feelings for Khan and was in love, but, people fall out of love, and for different reasons.

IMO the most realistic scenario is that as time went on she started to see where she and Khan differed in outlook and decided to move on. Those things happen to couples all time.

Diana, in my opinion, was a person of standard and integrity and guts. And I personally don't think it's fair to say that she waited to have found someone so that she could leave her current partner. For all we know she might have contemplated it for a while, and she wasn't in love and then decided to move on.

But perhaps that doesn't fit into the narrative of 'desperate' and 'unreasonable' Diana.

So I don't think it's a case of, if Khan wanted too Diana would jump at the chance. She was a reasonable person who perhaps thought that it would be better if they went on their separate ways. Also, Khan, if I remember correctly, mentioned that he 'would take Diana back' but it depended on how her relationship with Fayed went. That sounds a bit 'desperate' to me.