The Duke and Duchess of Windsor Discussion

cinrit · October 16, 2011, 02:10:35 PM

A thread to discuss the former Edward VIII/Duke and Duchess of Windsor

QuoteIt was one of the great love stories of the 20th Century.[/b][/font][/size][/color]

The romance between Edward VIII and twice-divorced U.S. socialite Wallis Simpson rocked the nation and triggered a constitutional crisis.

History has portrayed Edward as the man who gave up the throne for love.

But now pictures have been unearthed which prove he fully intended to remain as King right up to his abdication on December 10, 1936.

They show him posing for artists in preparation for his coronation just a few days before he stepped down.

The portraits were discovered in archives owned by the Illustrated London News.

Seen for the first time...Edward VIII posing for the coronation that never was | Daily Mail Online

Cindy

Trudie · October 16, 2011, 03:04:36 PM

Well his throne was stolen from him. Though I think Geroge VI made a wonderful King.

lilibet80 · October 16, 2011, 08:43:16 PM

Quote from: Trudie on October 16, 2011, 03:04:36 PM
Well his throne was stolen from him. Though I think Geroge VI made a wonderful King.

How was his throne stolen from him?

Trudie · October 16, 2011, 09:18:33 PM

The powers that be i.e Baldwin didn't like him and Wallis was the convenient excuse to get rid of him. Wallis was a divorced adulteress.

Harryforlife25 · October 16, 2011, 09:25:45 PM

Quote from: Trudie on October 16, 2011, 09:18:33 PM
The powers that be i.e Baldwin didn't like him and Wallis was the convenient excuse to get rid of him.

I think the Duke was a coward who USED Wallis to escape his role...

cinrit · October 16, 2011, 10:43:14 PM

Bottom line, whatever the reasons (children were probably not a reason) ... he had a choice ... Wallis or the throne. He chose Wallis.

Cindy

sandy · October 17, 2011, 12:27:07 AM

Quote from: Harryforlife25 on October 16, 2011, 09:25:45 PM
Quote from: Trudie on October 16, 2011, 09:18:33 PM
The powers that be i.e Baldwin didn't like him and Wallis was the convenient excuse to get rid of him.

I think the Duke was a coward who USED Wallis to escape his role...

Edward didn't marrty the "suitable girl" to get his heirs so Wallis didh't break up his marriage. Her husband took the blame for the marriage break up. Theoretically Edward VIII COULD marry an American back then as long as she wasn't a Catholic or a Divorcee. Had she been single and of course Protestant he could have married her as an American. The secret of who couldn't have children Edward or Wallis (or they could have chosen not to) went with them to their graves.

Had he not had children (or could not have), Elizabeth would have been his heir and assumed the throne in 1972 instead of 1952.

cinrit · October 17, 2011, 09:16:59 PM

Quote from: Trudie on October 17, 2011, 07:36:03 PM
Edwards throne was stolen from him using Wallis as the excuse but Charles still gets to keep his place despite his wife?.

Edward VIII's throne was not stolen from him. He was given a choice, and he chose to leave the throne. The fact that Wallis was a twice-divorced American was only a small part of the reason she was considered unsuitable. As for Charles' situation, times have changed between 1936 and 2005.

Cindy

Trudie · October 17, 2011, 09:41:45 PM

Quote from: cinrit on October 17, 2011, 09:16:59 PM
Quote from: Trudie on October 17, 2011, 07:36:03 PM
Edwards throne was stolen from him using Wallis as the excuse but Charles still gets to keep his place despite his wife?.

Edward VIII's throne was not stolen from him. He was given a choice, and he chose to leave the throne. The fact that Wallis was a twice-divorced American was only a small part of the reason she was considered unsuitable. As for Charles' situation, times have changed between 1936 and 2005.

Cindy

Edward shouldn't have had to make a choice. Why should he he have been the only man in the world who could not marry the woman of his choice?. As for the other situation I find that extremely rich coming from an institution that is so firmly gripped in it's traditions that the same choice should have been given. I am also well aware of how times of changed however traditions and precedent are the foundations that the monarchy still uses today.

lilibet80 · October 18, 2011, 02:32:41 AM

My question has not yet been answered. How was the throne stolen from Edward VIII?

wannable · October 18, 2011, 01:28:55 PM

Quote from: lilibet80 on October 18, 2011, 02:32:41 AM
My question has not yet been answered. How was the throne stolen from Edward VIII?

It depends on your point of view, translate that into one's point of view equates to your believe and truth, for the author of the article the throne was stolen, for others he was given an option, either way, when a person is pressured to 'choose', usually it means stolen. Nevertheless factor in the time frame and mind set 1936...

Here's the wikipedia Abdication Crisis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VIII_abdication_crisis

lilibet80 · October 18, 2011, 02:41:31 PM

"The widespread unwillingness to accept Mrs Simpson as the King's consort, and the King's refusal to give her up, led to Edward's abdication in December 1936.[1] He remains the only British monarch to have voluntarily renounced the throne since the Anglo-Saxon period."

Voluntarily renouncing the throne is quite different from a throne being "stolen" from him. Winston Churchill had advised him to marry Mrs. Simpson secretly before his father died. That way there would be nothing that the government or the church or the people with their "widespread unwillingness" to accept the marriage could do about it. He CHOSE to do what he did.

sandy · October 18, 2011, 05:38:23 PM

It wasn't as if Edward got up one day and said Oh, I think I'll resign. He had pressure put on him--not marry Wallis and keep the throne or marry her and give up. No other choice. I don't think it was entirely "voluntary" considering the situation. He wanted an arrangement where he could marry her and be King and options that he put forward were all refused. I read that Churchill advised him to wait until after his Coronation not elope with Wallis before his father died. After the Coronation it was said it would have been harder to pressure him to resign.

cinrit · October 18, 2011, 05:43:25 PM

He made his choice. I'm sure he's not the first monarch in the history of the world (and certainly not the only person in the history of the world) who had to make a choice whether or not to marry the person he/she loved. Voluntary or not, he made his choice. And it was probably the best choice that he could have made if he didn't intend to give up Wallis.

Cindy

sandy · October 18, 2011, 05:50:02 PM

Edward was faced with two things, he could not have it "all" apparently: being King or marrying the woman he loved. It was a pretty daunting choice and a horrific one for him. It wasn't like he just up and decided to leave. He was under tremendous pressure and Wallis was trying to talk him out of abdicating.

lilibet80 · October 18, 2011, 06:50:55 PM

Quote from: sandy on October 18, 2011, 05:50:02 PM
Edward was faced with two things, he could not have it "all" apparently: being King or marrying the woman he loved. It was a pretty daunting choice and a horrific one for him. It wasn't like he just up and decided to leave. He was under tremendous pressure and Wallis was trying to talk him out of abdicating.

Precisely, he was faced with a choice and he CHOSE what he chose. He did not have the throne "stolen" from him. This was not the middle ages where someone could "bag" the throne. This was a decision he made to desert his people when war was brewing and to dump the whole thing in his delicate untrained brother's lap.

sandy · October 18, 2011, 07:07:20 PM

Another royal decades later did not have to make such a choice. Edward was more or less forced into this choice. He had his own choice which was shot down.

Harryforlife25 · October 18, 2011, 08:10:05 PM

Nothing was stolen from him :loco: The Throne was always THERE for HIM to HAVE :rolleyes: it is just he wanted Wallis MORE :notamused: the man had to be moronic not to know that his relationship would cost him the throne :wink: so for him at that point it all went down to what he wanted more and it wasn't the Throne but HE HAD A CHOICE :rolleyes: .

sandy · October 18, 2011, 08:21:11 PM

Quote from: Harryforlife25 on October 18, 2011, 08:10:05 PM
Nothing was stolen from him :loco: The Throne was always THERE for HIM to HAVE :rolleyes: it is just he wanted Wallis MORE :notamused: the man had to be moronic not to know that his relationship would cost him the throne :wink: so for him at that point it all went down to what he wanted more and it wasn't the Throne but HE HAD A CHOICE :rolleyes: .

I would not say the relationship would cost him the throne. He could have always had her as a mistress. He wanted to marry her.

He had his own choice on what to do but this was rejected. He even suggested marrying Wallis without her getting the royal titles, this was rejected. :king:

Trudie · October 18, 2011, 10:05:10 PM

Times do change but essentially the traditions and precedents of the monarchy do not. If this were the case then Edward's proposal of a morganatic marriage would have been accepted. :nod:

cinrit · October 18, 2011, 11:33:49 PM

Quote from: Trudie on October 18, 2011, 10:05:10 PM
Times do change but essentially the traditions and precedents of the monarchy do not. If this were the case then Edward's proposal of a morganatic marriage would have been accepted. :nod:

Traditions and precedents are different from accepted mores. The accepted mores of the time would not even allow divorced women to be presented at court. So it's not a big surprise that a twice-divorced woman (American or British) would have been accepted as the king's consort. Added to that was her admiration for Adolph Hitler, which was probably even more of a deterrent. In any case, divorce is not as taboo today as it was then; hence, the Prince of Wales was not only allowed to marry a divorcee, his mother hosted a reception after the wedding.

Cindy

sandy · October 19, 2011, 12:37:16 AM

Wallis WAS presented at court after one divorce. She was presented to George V and Mary while she was married to Ernest Simpson. Ths is well documented. George V and Mary were said not to be happy but received her just the same.

cinrit · October 19, 2011, 10:22:05 AM

Quote from: sandy on October 19, 2011, 12:37:16 AM
Wallis WAS presented at court after one divorce. She was presented to George V and Mary while she was married to Ernest Simpson. Ths is well documented. George V and Mary were said not to be happy but received her just the same.

She was introduced to them at the insistence of Edward. I don't believe she was formally presented at court.

Cindy

sandy · October 19, 2011, 01:37:55 PM

Quote from: cinrit on October 19, 2011, 10:22:05 AM
Quote from: sandy on October 19, 2011, 12:37:16 AM
Wallis WAS presented at court after one divorce. She was presented to George V and Mary while she was married to Ernest Simpson. Ths is well documented. George V and Mary were said not to be happy but received her just the same.

She was introduced to them at the insistence of Edward. I don't believe she was formally presented at court.

Cindy

It was a formal presenation at court. She wore the traditional gown that other women wore when presented at court. There is a portrait of her in the gown at the time of her presenation at court. Edward wanted her there and his parents didn't bar her. It was more than an "introduction" Cindy.

Here is one link from book excerpt:

http://books.google.com/books?id=VpKatnzbYJEC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=wallis+presented+at+court&source=bl&ots=hNZS8b6wu6&sig=NDIODPeRG6Gcb4_rkbOL92Ju6po&hl=en&ei=ENOeToiKFcrc0QGU9LTGCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=wallis%20presented%20at%20court&f=false

cinrit · October 19, 2011, 01:49:07 PM

Quote from: sandy on October 19, 2011, 01:37:55 PM
It was a formal presenation at court. She wore the traditional gown that other women wore when presented at court. There is a portrait of her in the gown at the time of her presenation at court. Edward wanted her there and his parents didn't bar her. It was more than an "introduction" Cindy.

Here is one link from book excerpt:

http://books.google.com/books?id=VpKatnzbYJEC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=wallis+presented+at+court&source=bl&ots=hNZS8b6wu6&sig=NDIODPeRG6Gcb4_rkbOL92Ju6po&hl=en&ei=ENOeToiKFcrc0QGU9LTGCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=wallis%20presented%20at%20court&f=false

Thanks ... I'll remember that. :)

Cindy