Royal Exes-Spouses and significant others

[Curryong]

I think Harry, clean shaven, has a look of Johnnie S. It's hard to tell with black and white photos but I think Johnny had the red tinged brown hair and ruddy look of the Spencer family. It was somewhat dampened down in his case because his mother Cynthia was a blonde and father seemed to have had brown hair. Jane Fellowes was also much less gingery than her siblings. George McCorqudale, Harry's much younger red haired cousin, was a dead ringer for Harry as a teenager but the resemblance passed.

Talking about black and white photos and the 1950's, the clothing of the era and women's hairstyles, fashions and makeup didn't do anyone any favours. That bottom photo of Johnnie and Frances are of a couple in their thirties (Johnny) and twenties, probably early twenties, Frances. Frances could pass for thirty five by today's standards in that photo with no trouble at all. They both look unhappy. I  wonder if it was taken around the time of their son's death?

[Curryong]

Thankyou Sandy. Well, that makes it even worse! Frances is eighteen and because of hairstyle and clothing looks as if she's passed her thirtieth birthday. I've seen this phenomen before with old photos from earlier in the 20th century. British women in the 1950s seem particular victims of it. Those harsh tight perms, dark red lipstick etc., no really youthful ie teenage fashions.

[TLLK]

REALLY? Harry has same small eyes (& same colour too) as Charles and Philip. And also rosacea as Charles

Absolutely agree that Harry closely resembles Charles and Phillip, but I believe when the ugly rumors first surfaced that Harry was still a child when their faces go through many changes. Also it didn't help that some conveniently overlooked that there were plenty of red heads in the Spencer family.
Double post auto-merged: May 18, 2017, 01:02:13 AM

Thankyou Sandy. Well, that makes it even worse! Frances is eighteen and because of hairstyle and clothing looks as if she's passed her thirtieth birthday. I've seen this phenomen before with old photos from earlier in the 20th century. British women in the 1950s seem particular victims of it. Those harsh tight perms, dark red lipstick etc., no really youthful ie teenage fashions.

It it shocking to think that she was still under twenty in those photos. For some reason I didn't see the same with American teens and young adults from that era.
Double post auto-merged: May 18, 2017, 01:04:08 AM

Family of Princess Diana's Ex, James Hewitt, Says He Is 'Getting Better' After 'Heart Attack and Stroke'
Family of Princess Diana's Ex, James Hewitt, Says He Is 'Getting Better' After 'Heart Attack and Stroke'

Thank you for sharing this @sara8150.

[Trudie]

^ I was just looking at the photo in your profile royalanthropologist and if you look at Harry and Charles side by side they appear to have the same profile and smile while I still think William resembles The Duke of Kent.

[sandy]

As far as I can see there were no "paternity" questions for either WIlliam or Harry...except by gossips or those who wrote "tabloid" style books.

William now resembles his Uncle Edward.

[Curryong]

I've never believed the rumours that Harry was James's because of (a) the timelines, with Diana ensconced at Windsor that Christmas and then travelling with the Family to Sandringham for a shoot post Xmas, something that lasted a few days then. (Diana must have really loved that.) Sandringham was where Harry was supposedly conceived, so, unless James smuggled himself into the House there or Diana went out for a long drive one afternoon...

Also (b) James has rather small beady brown eyes. I get the feeling that if he had ever fathered any children they would have had them too. Also, when younger, James seems to have been very freckled as some redheads are. Harry has rosacea but not freckled patches on his face. James is also more auburn in the redhead department, while Harry is a ginger.

[Curryong]

You all know I guess that when Beatrice and Dave Clark split last July Dave started dating a young New York advertising executive called Lynn Marie Anderson (I'm sure a very useful contact for an Uber executive.) Well, he's become engaged to Lynn, in Geneva apparently where they are on holiday. I was on Twitter last night when the news came through and a great deal of sympathy was shown towards Beatrice.

Princess Beatrice's ex gets engaged to his new girlfriend | Daily Mail Online

Nobody knows the ins and outs of it of course because nobody's talking but many believe that Dave and Beatrice had a talk last year when rumours were rife about Eugenie and Jack becoming engaged and Dave wasn't very enthusiastic about getting married. They had been together ten years.

I think we all know a similar scenario among friends or family. Long, long courtship drifts along, man appears to be a commitment phobe, there's a split and the next thing you know the ex is heading up the altar with a new girlfriend. In this case Lynn might be pregnant, according to rumour.

I have to say that for years I had suspicions that Dave the Smiler enjoyed schmoozing foreign clients for Branson with a real live princess on his arm. After he moved to Uber that was no longer so important and the split came shortly afterwards. My suspicious mind! Could be very wrong of course. They say Beatrice is devastated but is remaining brave. She invested ten years of her life in him.

[amabel]

I don't think she'll ever be short of suitors.  I thogh the last I heard of her, it was that she and he were getting engaged. 

[sara8150]

Princess Diana's former lover James Hewitt 'faces a month in hospital after suffering a heart attack and a stroke'
James Hewitt 'faces month in hospital' | Daily Mail Online

[royalanthropologist]

Poor guy. His association with Diana has brought him nothing but grief.  I bet if he had to do it all over again, he would not have had an affair with her; let alone speak about it. I wish the tasteless media would leave him alone, even if he is dying. They have no business giving us a blow by blow account.

[amabel]

I doubt it.  He is  a greedy and selfish and stupid person.  he grabbed at what Diana was offering, money wise and then wanted more.  If he'd kept the affair discreet the media would not have knonw about him or written about him

[sandy]

I agree. I don't think he's through. He'll be giving interviews again soon.
Double post auto-merged: May 21, 2017, 10:35:28 PM

Poor guy. His association with Diana has brought him nothing but grief.  I bet if he had to do it all over again, he would not have had an affair with her; let alone speak about it. I wish the tasteless media would leave him alone, even if he is dying. They have no business giving us a blow by blow account.

He did tasteless things. If he had not been so greedy, he could have kept the affair discreet, never commented about it much less cooperated with an author. He had many second chances but seemed to make a career about his association with Diana. I think he'll survive but will probably have to make adjustments to his lifestyle and diet so he does not relapse.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Poor guy. His association with Diana has brought him nothing but grief.  I bet if he had to do it all over again, he would not have had an affair with her; let alone speak about it. I wish the tasteless media would leave him alone, even if he is dying. They have no business giving us a blow by blow account.

I often wonder about that @royalanthropologist I dont know though, maybe if someone could tell you before the fact how things would play out, maybe he'd have passed, but I would suspect being able to console and care for her at her lowest would be worth going through a lot of bother after the fact, but im far from objective on the matter.  :crazylove: :brightside: but I dont think that was the main draw for him, though.

But I do agree on your depiction of how the association has affected his life, i know some have wished hed stayed quiet and he may not have played things the best, but I do find it interesting that his experience paralleled the experience Diana had with Charles. He was spurned, and thought a book would help him but in the end got a lot of blowback on it.

Sadly with Diana gone the media will pick him over clean, although I agree if he can make some money, he may help them out with that. The whole thing in Anna's article about him cooperating with the book to "set the public straight" on the loving nature of the affair was just so sad, didnt make him look very well, or her, for that matter, by that point seemed neither trusted the other, and were worried about who would control the narrative. Given that the Morton book was partly to deflect any blast from Gilbey and Hewitt, I could see why he might worry. Also im sure he was a little peeved to hear what she said about him. Its just sad it all degenerated to that point....

[royalanthropologist]

Well I do actually agree with Duch_Luver_4ever. It was not really Diana's fault that he was pushed over the coals. She did regret that he had exposed her in his silly biography but that was merely because he had complicated her narrative of the innocent wronged wife. Neither the establishment nor Diana wanted to attack James. Rather it is the people that wanted to fervently protect her and her memory that decided he was the enemy.

To me he seemed like a rather silly young man who had an affair with the Princess of Wales but was not quite clued into what was happening or the implications of that affair. He was rather startled that Prince Charles did not seem to mind the affair at all and was inviting him to royal events. To someone who is not used to upper class etiquette, they would not comprehend how a husband would not be jealous of his wife having an affair.

I remember one time when he expressed fears that he could be arrested for high treason. That just about showed his naivety. If the British government really wants to get rid of someone that is disturbing them, the last thing they would do is arrest him. Had they wanted to stop the Diana and James affair, they would have ruthlessly done so. The story of Mannake gave Diana warning enough that there could be serious consequences for any man that approached her without royal approval.

The truth of the matter is that James suited the purposes of the royal family to the T. He was the embarrassment that Diana did not want to be talked about and was simultaneously a way to get her out of Charles' life. They just did not count on Diana getting bored by the initially amusing affair.  Even after she turned back to attacking Charles, nobody in the establishment was interested in James.  He seemed to be falling from crisis to crisis and they just ignored him.

[amabel]

his behaviour may have suited the RF because it made Diana look vulgar and silly to have chosen a lover who was so awful.. but it didn't suit Diana.  She was frightened of the affair becoming public knowledge as it might have turned the public against her.  She was lucky that it was the 1990s, and people mostly forgave her and felt that one affair (which was all tat was "out" ) at first was understandabe when chalres was unfaithful and selfish and neglectful as a husband.  but the disclosure of later affairs did make her seem wrose.
However Hewitt was clearly out for what he could get most of the time in the relationship, He let her buy him things.  he was always itching to tell the press about the relationship, and hinting, parlty out of vanity I tink and partly out of a desire for money and "notice".  Diana picked very badly.. Had she stuck to someone like OH and kept the affair within limits, ie not thinking of leaving her marriage to be with him, he would have kept thngs discreet and never considered talking to the press.

[royalanthropologist]

Amabel. It is precisely because Hewitt exposed Diana that he is mercilessly mocked and attacked by her fans, even when he appears to be dying. James Hewitt started the process of exposing the other side of the wrong wife narrative.  I am sure if he had not come out of the closet (so to speak), there would be some Diana fans who would valiantly state that she never ever had an affair in her life.

You will see this pattern repeated again and again. Any man that challenges (even inadvertently like the Squiggygate tapes) the narrative of the wronged wife is attacked. Why did he pursue Diana? Why did he not discourage her from stalking him? Why did he cheat on his wife? Why is Charles not being blamed for Diana's mistakes, after all he was the cause of all her problems?

The pattern started right from Charles. He is blamed for proposing to her but she is not blamed for accepting. Charles is blamed for abandoning Diana; but Diana is not blamed for abandoning Hewitt. It is the man's fault. They should not have exposed Diana's foibles, only praised her to the high heavens. Even when Charles is silent; he is blamed for not speaking up as another facet of Diana is challenged by some writer. Collecting her body from Paris was not enough to satisfy the mob. They wanted him to be attacked at her funeral.

It is such fantasists who were ultimately responsible for making Diana miserable. They like to blame everybody (Charles, queen, royal family, Oliver Hoare, Burrel, Spencers etc.) when it is them that ensured Diana could never have a normal romantic life. Their obsessions turned her into a dangerous woman to love, know or be associated with.  When Charles was married to Diana, they would rudely indicate that they did not want him on walkabouts. When he left, they complained that he was throwing his toys out of the pram.

It is those "obsessives" who have made Jame's life such a nightmare over the last few years, all because he had an affair with Diana and dared to speak about it. I know Hewitt has made many mistakes but he is not the villain in this story. He was used, abused, dumped and now harassed. Had he never met Diana, he would not have had all this grief surrounding him.

[sandy]

Hewitt did wrong. And I don't  think it was from only Diana's fans that he is criticized.  There are some who notice how someone trades on a love affair with a famous person for $$$$ and do not like it. Diana was still the wronged wife. Charles ditched her. She came into the marriage with no baggage and in good faith. Charles did not. Diana did not want to live like a nun for the rest of her life. She moved on. Charles is given a free pass for ditching his wife and knowing he did not love her when he married her. Sorry I don't see Hewitt as a victim, he was a grown man and made his own choices. How come men are made to look like helpless babies? If Hewitt did not want to be criticized, he could have kept his mouth shut. He put himself out there, it's on him.

I see the opposite, Diana critics blast her for accepting and give him a free pass for proposing. Especially since the man later told his biographer he married Diana when he preferred someone else.

Charles and Diana were MARRIED. Hewitt and Diana were not engaged (she was married) and could not get married unless Diana risked losing custody of the boys. Hewitt and Diana were both free to walk. So do you think a couple seeing each other should stay together always. That just is not realistic. Couples break up and they are free to do so. But you forget Diana and Charles were man and wife.

No there are no "fantasists" I wish you would stop labeling. Everybody is entitled to an opinion here. No there are no 'obsessives" either.

Jamie Boy made his own life a nightmare. He had no sense of right and wrong. He should have moved on and gotten a real job and stopped living off the time he saw Diana.

his behaviour may have suited the RF because it made Diana look vulgar and silly to have chosen a lover who was so awful.. but it didn't suit Diana.  She was frightened of the affair becoming public knowledge as it might have turned the public against her.  She was lucky that it was the 1990s, and people mostly forgave her and felt that one affair (which was all tat was "out" ) at first was understandabe when chalres was unfaithful and selfish and neglectful as a husband.  but the disclosure of later affairs did make her seem wrose.
However Hewitt was clearly out for what he could get most of the time in the relationship, He let her buy him things.  he was always itching to tell the press about the relationship, and hinting, parlty out of vanity I tink and partly out of a desire for money and "notice".  Diana picked very badly.. Had she stuck to someone like OH and kept the affair within limits, ie not thinking of leaving her marriage to be with him, he would have kept thngs discreet and never considered talking to the press.

The other men that Diana saw later on did not sell her out the way Hewitt did. Khan only spoke up because of the inquest. He never had any sort of book deal. Hoare neither confirmed or denied an affair. Carling denied the affair.

No HIS behavior did not make Diana look vulgar. Hewitt is the one who sold out and seemed to be motivated by greed and wanting to be famous (love had nothing to do with it apparently).

Diana was cut loose by Charles so there was some sympathy for her.

[Trudie]

Amabel. It is precisely because Hewitt exposed Diana that he is mercilessly mocked and attacked by her fans, even when he appears to be dying. James Hewitt started the process of exposing the other side of the wrong wife narrative.  I am sure if he had not come out of the closet (so to speak), there would be some Diana fans who would valiantly state that she never ever had an affair in her life.

You will see this pattern repeated again and again. Any man that challenges (even inadvertently like the Squiggygate tapes) the narrative of the wronged wife is attacked. Why did he pursue Diana? Why did he not discourage her from stalking him? Why did he cheat on his wife? Why is Charles not being blamed for Diana's mistakes, after all he was the cause of all her problems?

The pattern started right from Charles. He is blamed for proposing to her but she is not blamed for accepting. Charles is blamed for abandoning Diana; but Diana is not blamed for abandoning Hewitt. It is the man's fault. They should not have exposed Diana's foibles, only praised her to the high heavens. Even when Charles is silent; he is blamed for not speaking up as another facet of Diana is challenged by some writer. Collecting her body from Paris was not enough to satisfy the mob. They wanted him to be attacked at her funeral.

It is such fantasists who were ultimately responsible for making Diana miserable. They like to blame everybody (Charles, queen, royal family, Oliver Hoare, Burrel, Spencers etc.) when it is them that ensured Diana could never have a normal romantic life. Their obsessions turned her into a dangerous woman to love, know or be associated with.  When Charles was married to Diana, they would rudely indicate that they did not want him on walkabouts. When he left, they complained that he was throwing his toys out of the pram.

It is those "obsessives" who have made Jame's life such a nightmare over the last few years, all because he had an affair with Diana and dared to speak about it. I know Hewitt has made many mistakes but he is not the villain in this story. He was used, abused, dumped and now harassed. Had he never met Diana, he would not have had all this grief surrounding him.

I totally disagree with this entire post. There are other people not entirely Diana fans who also came out with their displeasure at Hewitt's behavior. As an officer he knew how unfavorable his indiscreet boasts and talking about his affair would be received. James came out with the book before Charles and Camilla's affair was out in the open and not merely speculated on. Hewitt knew he was getting involved with a married woman who couldn't at the time divorce her husband and that eventually it would end. Hewitt's greatest strength was his remaining silent and discreet as is the normal way the aristo's behave.

Moving on Diana accepted Charles proposal because she fell in love with him in all her 19 year immaturity while Charles proposed knowing that he didn't love her and declared that at the engagement interview with his "whatever in love means" Diana's foibles were exposed by Diana herself no need to raise her to sainthood. You claim that the people who wanted to see Diana were obsessive fans while not being happy with getting Charles on walkabouts. You need to remember Diana was the first POW since Queen Mary in the early part of the century before 1909 when she became Queen.

I for one thought is was honorable of Charles to go to Paris to bring Diana home but again I believe that was done more out of respect for his children who were too young to go themselves. However out of respect for William and Harry he should have made Diana non-negotiable after her death for the sake of William and Harry yet the woman who caused much sorrow to Diana was made non negotiable to try to raise her to sainthood. James was not used, abused nor harassed because of his affair or association with Diana it was the choices he made in the aftermath that hurt him and to be honest if the affair had not been with Diana but with another high-profile woman I believe he would have done it again to satisfy his ego and greed to make money without doing any kind of work. As for James Gilbey of squiggygate fame no one has bothered him for interviews nor vilified him as he maintained his dignity with discreet silence like Camilla who has never spoken about her affair with Charles it was Charles who brought his affair with Camilla into the open by opening admitting it in the Dimbleby interview on TV.

[dianab]

His book came out in 1994 - same year the Dimbleby book. Definitely after the TampanGate.

Before that, in 1992 he was outed for a ex-girlfriend who stole the letters that Diana had written to him and tried sell to a tabloid.

[sandy]

Hewitt himself never confirmed his involvement with Diana until 1994 with the book. There was some doubt about the ex's story, at t he time. A few years later he started trying to sell the letters himself but go no offers.

[TLLK]

Of course the ironic thing about Diana mentioning about James book at all, was that she was to do much more harm to her image with the other men she was linked to either officially or unofficially, specifically Oliver Hoare and Will Carling. I think people were prepared to understand the affair with Hewitt, but it became harder for people to be ok with her potentially doing to other marriages what was done to hers. I think thats what did the most damage, and prompted the Panaorama interview, as even I was shaking my head at that time wondering what she was thinking.

:goodpost: I agree @Duch_Luver_4ever as I believe most would understand her need to have a companion after the marriage to Charles had broken down. It was  the relationships (friend or lover) iwth Hoare and Carling that were the ones that were more controversial.

[DaFluffs]

I'd be interested in anyone's opinion on the following re: the York princesses & Pippa's wedding:
1.  That Eugenie's bringing Jack along means they are close to being engaged?
2.  That Bea wasn't there because it hurts too much (which is why she purportedly traveled to Cannes to be w/her mother?)

[TLLK]

@DaFluffs 1. Yes I do believe that there will be an engagement between Eugenie and Jack.

2. Hard to say because I do not know how close James/Pippa are to Beatrice, but I could see her declining if she's feeling hurt by the recent news of Dave's engagement.

[Curryong]

I agree with TLLK that Eugenie and Jack are moving towards an engagement. I'm sure they're committed to each other and I hope to see a wedding in the next year or so, though I have to say they seem happy as they are. Jack has escorted Eugenie to weddings in the past so I wouldn't put any special emphasis on the fact that Jack came to Pippa's nuptials.

As for Beatrice, we really don't know the circumstances of her breakup with Dave. However, he appeared with his new girl soon after the split. Beatrice probably didn't feel like going to a wedding with her sister and Jack after the news of Dave's engagement. She probably felt like a bit of sunshine in Cannes. It's a pity Dave and his fiancée have also turned up there, though.

[Windsor]

I don't think there will be a Royal Wedding anytime soon - the York Princesses will probably wait a little longer to get married. Perhaps until after the Duke of York has managed to arrange some sort of role for them in the working side of the Monarchy.