The role of the British Monarchy, Popularity and Future discussion

[sandy]

HM The Queen - 73% positive / 10% negative

William - 71% positive / 9% negative

Catherine - 66% positive / 9% negative

Harry - 57% positive / 18% negative

Anne - 44% positive / 12% negative

Charles - 44% positive / 22% negative

Meghan - 41% positive / 29% negative

Philip - 40% positive / 24% negative

Edward - 22% positive / 21% negative

Andrew - 16% positive / 47% negative


It?s actually pretty shocking at least to me that only Prince Andrew has a lower negative number than Meghan. 


Also: Who is better at representing modern Britain (only W&K and H&M given as options):

William & Kate 57%

Harry and Meghan 24%

There is a large gap between Meghan's negative number and Andrew's. And Philip is retired.

It also depends who was surveyed and these sort of numbers tend not to stay the same. And william and Kate would have different standards, since William is a future King

[TLLK]

It?s actually pretty shocking at least to me that only Prince Andrew has a lower negative number than Meghan.

Well to be fair if Camilla had been included in the poll, I suspect there might have been another family member with a similar ranking. :wink:

[Curryong]

But it's not all positive/negative, and even the positive/negative are nuanced. There are reasonably high neutral figures for all of them, that is, neither pro nor con, reflecting the fact that Britons aren't all that bothered by the RF on a day to day basis.

If you look at Edward's figures of positive/neutral for example there is a one point difference. I would bet there's a large neutral component there, reflecting that in fact few members of the British public know much about him.

It's ridiculously hit and miss IMO, that the company included Charles but not Camilla, Edward but not Sophie. I would expect Sophie to be a bit better known by the public than Edward because of various articles about her close friendship with the Queen, plus her charities to do with sick babies etc.

And Charles, the next King, has figures that are certainly nothing to write home about, even with his wife's non presence on this survey, considering he is one heartbeat away from the throne.

[TLLK]

If you look at Edward's figures of positive/neutral for example there is a one point difference. I would bet there's a large neutral component there, reflecting that in fact few members of the British public know much about him.

Something that Edward has been known to joke about when greeting the Christmas Day well wishers on the Sandringham estate. He more or less says "You probably don't know who I am." :hehe:

[wannable]

40 percent approval isn't bad, their strategist for those royals in that number may seek where to improve. Its quite easy to identify what.

[sandy]

I am not so sure the royals use these surveys as a "model". Courtiers and advisers have that job and they do monitor the media but I am not so sure how dependable that survey is as a "benchmark."

[TLLK]

40 percent approval isn't bad, their strategist for those royals in that number may seek where to improve. Its quite easy to identify what.

Consider how a politician would view those numbers! They'd be thrilled with a 40% favorable rating! :happy:

[wannable]

Every (best) industry, firms use surveys, it's a quantitative solution.  Make the questions, hire a survey co. and the returns help them decide.

In the case of the royals, they don't need to hire, Ipsos and YouGov do it for free as part of the United Kingdom institution; Monarchy and Politics. Note: the 2 poll/survey co. mentioned are the best in the UK, some of their top management individuals form the BPC (British Polling Council).

@TLLK exactly.

[sandy]

Surveys come and go and change.

[TLLK]

Every (best) industry, firms use surveys, it's a quantitative solution.  Make the questions, hire a survey co. and the returns help them decide.

In the case of the royals, they don't need to hire, Ipsos and YouGov do it for free as part of the United Kingdom institution; Monarchy and Politics. Note: the 2 poll/survey co. mentioned are the best in the UK, some of their top management individuals form the BPC (British Polling Council).

@TLLK exactly.

If the various royals who were the subjects in this survey consider take to the results as an indication of how the British public views them, then that is their choice.  :nod: On the other hand, they can choose to ignore them as well.

[wannable]

Queen's call-up for Beatrice and Eugenie: Monarch wants her granddaughters to take on more duties after Harry and Meghan quit as senior royals
Queen understood to want Beatrice and Eugenie to do public engagements
Courtier tells how Queen thinks her granddaughters should attend more events
Prince Charles believed to be content for them to step up to attend royal events
I can reveal that the Prince of Wales would now be content for them to step up.
?The Royal Family has already become slimmed down with the Duke and Duchess of Sussex giving up public duties,? a close friend of Charles tells me. ?As the older members of the family retire, it will become slimmer still, so there are spaces to be filled.
?His Royal Highness is very fond of his nieces and would not stand in the way if they did want to carry out more duties.?
Queen's call-up for Beatrice and Eugenie: Monarch wants her granddaughters to take on more duties | Daily Mail Online

[Curryong]

And we know this is true because it appears in the Fail? Gimmee a break!

But let's play the game of Its True. Charles might be so-so OK with this so long as he doesn't have to financially support the sisters into old age. He might regard it as a back door to Andrew getting back into public life again though and Fergie getting lots of publicity through her 'girlies'.

I can't see Eugenie being enthusiastic about taking on a whole pile of Royal engagements however.

She hates being referred to as a Princess, according to friends, and therefore all the deference etc on public occasions would probably get on her nerves. She seems to be quite content with a fulltime permanent job, a husband and a private life.

And over 100 engagements a year? Don't think so! Beatrice maybe, as she hasn't really got steady employment.

However, both women probably want families and even if both only have two children that means absences for months in the future years and the possibility they wouldn't want to leave their babies and young children afterwards. (Might not be able to afford a full time nanny.)

Moreover, it's ironic that the Fail is spouting this, as for years they were the main conduit for all those 'partying, always holidaying York Princesses' articles, with both sisters (and their mother)  'always clubbing' and Bea seen on luxury yachts in the South of France.

The yelping commenters of the DM won't be happy if this occurs either. They've been screaming for years in the comments section about the sisters being parasites on public money, not having 'any' jobs, being wastes of space etc!

[TLLK]

If this story turns out to be true about the York Princesses taking on royal duties after their father was sidelined and the Sussexes chose to step back from official royal duties, then I believe that it could work with Charles' plan for a "slimmed down monarchy."

IMO the proposed slim down monarchy would have the following: Charles, Camilla, Cambridges, Sussexes, and Charles siblings. The Gloucesters and Kents would be retired. However with the exit of the DoY and the Sussexes there is a loss of three full time royals who are younger than the next monarch/consort.
Now a prospective full time line up would see: Charles, Camillla, Cambridges, Wessexes, and Anne. I would have the part timers be  Beatrice and Eugenie much like Princess Alexandra is part time.  ( I am not anticipating Andrew, Harry and Meghan to return to full time royal duties.)

Now full time security could be limited to those who currently require it: Charles, Camilla, Cambridges with the others receiving it for duties. (I'm expecting that the exiting DoY and the Sussexes will not require full time security in the future.)

With the departure of two members of the BRF who were in their thirties, there will need to be some assistance from people of the same generation as the Cambridges.

[wannable]

^ Yes, shortly explained by Richard Eden. 

As long as the courtiers of the three households; BP, CH and KP manage their 'introductions' correctly and set the 'rules' to the Princesses (and their spouses, and the direct family members) I see no issues.  Fair play rules of what was negotiated to HandM, in other words full IN or OUT, no half half, no making moneys. If not, that would be a blatant slap in the face, and the public uproar will be uncontainable.  The introductions need to be done where the Sussex were supposed to, planned to, etc. be present.

I had heard the rumours during the announcement of the Japan State Visit, so will see.

[TLLK]

Also this provided the BRF the opportunity to test a possible plan that can be implemented for Charlotte and Louis that more or less is modeled on the Dutch plan. The Monarch's younger children have careers and perform part time royal duties.

[Curryong]

Oh yes, Richard Eden knows it all! 

TLLK, Harry performed over 200 engagements in 2019, Meghan away on maternity leave for most of the year over 80. Without another baby she would probably have over 130 under her belt.  And the Yorkies, on a part time basis, are supposed to cover that number! As I've pointed out Eugenie has a full time job, her own charities and a husband and home. How do we know that Jack or Edo for that matter, will be quite OK with their wives travelling to different parts of the country or even overseas, especially after they have a family.

I appreciate that the Sussexes departure has left a gigantic gaping hole in the under 50s line up in the BRF. However I just cannot see that the none too popular York sisters bringing back the crowds. Eugenie's wedding didn't see too many viewers tuning in, comparatively speaking, and yet she and her sister are going to be the new youth hope of the BRF!!  :hehe:

And probable attendance at the banquet for the Japanese State Visit is not the same as a calendar of engagements even if they are parked on a couple of greeting duties with the other royals on this occasion.

Part time royals doing the sort of duties the youthful Alexandra did are now rare. Most young royals have vibrant careers of their own going, and that includes Eugenie, however much she might want to help out Grannie I can't see her doing more than a couple of dozen a year. She loathes the 'Princess' thing and has for years. She enjoys her private life.
Double post auto-merged: February 08, 2020, 01:03:53 AM

Also this provided the BRF the opportunity to test a possible plan that can be implemented for Charlotte and Louis that more or less is modeled on the Dutch plan. The Monarch's younger children have careers and perform part time royal duties.

Yes, we saw how that worked out for the Wessexes!

[TLLK]

From reading the CC it appears that majority of the  domestic engagements that the BRF undertake are for their patronages.  The remaining number being divided between official events or State Visits, receptions and bread and butter domestic visits.
While I don't expect the York princesses to undertake the number of engagements of a full time royal, it will be helpful to have a BRF member to meet with local dignitaries, attend receptions and cut ribbons to open a newly renovated hospital wing. It will ease the loss of three full time royals who were expected to be there for the reminder of QEII's reign and for Charles's. The Firm will have to adapt to the new reality.

[Curryong]

As I've said, I do not expect Eug to come fully aboard this new plan, (if it is one and not a product of Eden's imagination, which is likely.) Beatrice maybe, we will see. Fergie would be absolutely ecstatic and never off her IG.
Andrew would be given a boost by this as well, and I'm not sure that's an objective of courtiers at BP, or of Charles.

I have nothing against either sister.

However, it's very amusing that a rag that promoted both as party girls for many years, getting their commenters riled up with insults against these two Princesses, are now projecting them as vital royals in the new line-up. Wonder whether those vile articles will disappear. 

[TLLK]

Oh the vile articles that have been written over the past ten years or so about their weight, vacations, clothing choices etc...won't go away. The tabloids make too much money off of those. :notamused:

The York princesses have dealt with these in the past and should Eden's story be true, it's pretty certain that they'll know to expect them in the future.
Double post auto-merged: February 08, 2020, 02:18:47 AM

So for the time being we don't know if the story is true or not and the big story today from the York family is the formal announcement regarding Beatrice and Edo's upcoming wedding.

[QueenAlex]

^
I think that Charles would be relucntat because the York's aren't popular, but over time, I think they are reaching the stage where the press/public are vaguley tolerant of them.  They don't much like them but they are willing to accept them.  Just as Anne's never been much liked but has been accepted as a Royal worker who works prtty hard even if she does not get that much press attention or admiration.
  But What Charles has been nervous of is taking on the financial support of his nieces or cousins for life.  THat's why he wanted the slimmed down monarchy with only those closest to the throne doing royal work..  for the present it was meant to be the 2 sons and their wives, with back up from his siblings and cousins.  but the cousins are getting pretty old, and Andrew has now gone.
I think its possible that Charles may arrange for a  strictly limited helping out set up, where it is clear that this is for a few years only, and that he will not be supporting the Yorks in perpetuity.. though he will give them a reasonable allowance and probably continue to help them in later years.  Otherwise the RF are just going to have to drop a lot of patronages and I don't think he wuodl want that to happen abruptly.   There will be some cut backs, and the RF wont take on more charities etc.. they will be working towards the newer set up but not dramatically dropping a lot of work.  It has come at a bad time, as Bea and Eugenie are probably starting families.. but if they are willing to do it, I think its not the worst idea.  Who eles can help out?  Eds children are too Young.  The Phillipses have never been doing anything and they have tehir own careers.

[oak_and_cedar]

This seems reasonable. The working royals are all getting old.

Only PE and the countess of Wessex can be counted on to work alongside PW and DOC for the coming decade or so.

They need more people and to have princess Beatrice and prince Eugenie do 40-50 engagements per year is not a bad idea.

[QueenAlex]

This seems reasonable. The working royals are all getting old.

Only PE and the countess of Wessex can be counted on to work alongside PW and DOC for the coming decade or so.

They need more people and to have princess Beatrice and prince Eugenie do 40-50 engagements per year is not a bad idea.

Its far from an ideal solution.  They're not that popular, they may not even want to do it though they MAY feel it is their duty.. and Charles will problaby want to put in safeguards about the financial side of things. ANd it may set Sarah off wild with excitement that her girlies are now working princesses..

[TLLK]

This seems reasonable. The working royals are all getting old.

Only PE and the countess of Wessex can be counted on to work alongside PW and DOC for the coming decade or so.

They need more people and to have princess Beatrice and prince Eugenie do 40-50 engagements per year is not a bad idea.

Agreed. To be honest they don't have much of a choice at this point with the absence of three full time royals. Anne appears to be in very good health, but she's close in age to Charles and Camilla. The Wessexes who were both born in 1964 are sixteen years younger than Charles and IMO have proved themselves to be solid and supportive members of  the Firm despite their rocky entrance into full time royal duties in the early 2000's. With the departure of the Sussexes, there  is a need for more help from the younger generation. If the York princesses can assist as part-timers, then IMO this will be beneficial to the BRF.

[QueenAlex]

Agreed. To be honest they don't have much of a choice at this point with the absence of three full time royals. Anne appears to be in very good health, but she's close in age to Charles and Camilla. The Wessexes who were both born in 1964 are sixteen years younger than Charles and IMO have proved themselves to be solid and supportive members of  the Firm despite their rocky entrance into full time royal duties in the early 2000's. With the departure of the Sussexes, there  is a need for more help from the younger generation. If the York princesses can assist as part-timers, then IMO this will be beneficial to the BRF.

the thing is that they might not be that interested.  Bea is getting married.. Eugenie's married.  They will probaby be having babies soon.  It IS very difficult whether to try and use other royals on a very occasional basis, or for the present crowd to do more.. or they just drop some of the charities.   I wonder if the RF hope that Harry (with or without Meg) may come back in a year or so.. or if they feel he would just not be welcome.

[LouisFerdinand]

Do you think that either Princess Beatrice or Princess Eugenie might participate in Alexandra Rose Day?