Princess Diana Media 2017 (Videos, Documentaries, Books, etc)

Started by Duch_Luver_4ever, June 02, 2017, 11:21:43 PM

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QueenAlex

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on June 23, 2020, 12:39:19 PM
I meant as a princess of Wales. If she had not been in the same predicament I doubt she would have gone public. As POW that is.

what woudl there have been to "go public" about?  If she hadn't married Charles she would either have spent her 20s as a nursery assistant who was from the upper classes and on the fringes of the royal set...or seh would have married some obscure "chap" from a middle to upper class family, and been pretty much unknown to the world. 

oak_and_cedar

My point wasn't about Diana if she wasn't the POW. It was that if she was the POW and hadn't had that history what with her marriage she would have been a private princess of Wales.

QueenAlex

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on June 23, 2020, 09:51:22 PM
My point wasn't about Diana if she wasn't the POW. It was that if she was the POW and hadn't had that history what with her marriage she would have been a private princess of Wales.

She should have been a private Princess of Wales anyway.  Letting out all the stuff about her marriage, and telling various people all sorts of sensational details (Like stuff about her own family and her rows iwth them) was not a good idea.  All that she achieved was a divorce, and the loss of her title and when she was ordered to divorce by the queen she got panicked and didn't seem to want it.   I think seh did not seem to realise that Charles was fed up with teh marriage too, and that while he probalby would not have asked for a divorce, he was happy to do it when it became inevitable.  It meant that he coudl be with Camilla and that he had finished an unhappy marriage...

oak_and_cedar

She did not 'let out stuff' for the 'fun' of it. She gave her side after being slandered for years. Most people who were in her situation would try to fight back and clear their name.

I don't think Diana 'panicked'. Of course divorce is sad and no one wants divorce in normal cases. Diana was no different. However the situation she was in was harsh for her and I don't think she 'panicked' at prospect of 'getting out'.

Only prince Charles can speak on his feelings about whether he wanted a divorce or not. At the end of the day it was the Queen who pushed for it and not PC.

QueenAlex

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on June 26, 2020, 09:41:03 PM
She did not 'let out stuff' for the 'fun' of it. She gave her side after being slandered for years. Most people who were in her situation would try to fight back and clear their name.

I don't think Diana 'panicked'. Of course divorce is sad and no one wants divorce in normal cases. Diana was no different. However the situation she was in was harsh for her and I don't think she 'panicked' at prospect of 'getting out'.

Only prince Charles can speak on his feelings about whether he wanted a divorce or not. At the end of the day it was the Queen who pushed for it and not PC.
Of course Charles wanted out of the marriage.  He was thoroughly fed up with it, and with Diana, and it was a relief to him to be free.   But I don't think the queen would have allowed it until Diana questioned the succession in her Bashir interview and the queen realised that she had to be stopped and cut loose.   Diana did panic.  When she got the letter telling her to divorce she was frightened and tried to stall..  I think she realised then that this was it, she was out of the RF and she would not be Princess of wales or queen.. and she don't know what life was like on the outside, since she had been a Royal nearly all her adult life. 

And what is this "slandering"?  Noone slandered her...

oak_and_cedar

Only prince Charles can make a statement on his feelings, IMO. It was the Queen who told them to divorce.

Who said Diana was frightened? Did she come out and claim this? She wasn't holding on for dear life since she knew nothing would change.

Being accused of having BPD, for instance, isn't slander?

QueenAlex

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on June 27, 2020, 09:01:42 PM
Only prince Charles can make a statement on his feelings, IMO. It was the Queen who told them to divorce.

Who said Diana was frightened? Did she come out and claim this? She wasn't holding on for dear life since she knew nothing would change.

Being accused of having BPD, for instance, isn't slander?

Of course Charles wanted out of the marriage.  He made it clear in his authorized biography that the marriage had been very difficult and that he had (as he claimed) tried his best but it didn't work.  Why would he want to stay in an unhappy marriage, with feuding and rows, and  with the Press enjoying the spectacle and making things worse?  He had his life, he had his friends and work and Camilla..  Why would he not want a divorce and to get out and be free of the whole mess?  He had long since fallen out of anything like love For Diana..
Diana wrote back to the queen when she was ordered to divorce, and said that she didn't understand what was happening. And she told people that it "wasn't very nice to be told that she had to get a divorce."  She was scared.  She had wanted out, I think but it was very much D's way to veer around and say she was going to do one thing and then turn round and do something completely different.
She began to realise that divorce meant losing her royal role, her HRH, and the protection of being royal and royal life was all she had known for  15 years. . I think it also struck her that if she got a divorce, she would be free to find another man but.. Charles would also be free to remarry and that he might in due course marry Camilla.  So she had in effect made things easier for him.   She had to give in, as the queen is the queen and in any case the whole mess had gone on long enough and it was clear that it had to end... but she was scared....

oak_and_cedar

But again, only Prince Charles can speak for prince Charles. He hasn't said outright that he wanted a divorce, and neither did Diana for that matter.

It was the Queen who ordered to end the back and forth that might have escalated.

Diana did lose her HRH but she was still the mother of a future king and would never have been 'ousted'. I think the thought of PC moving on with the DOC a bit hurtful considering all that happened. However, she would have moved on with her life, which is basically what she did after the divorce.

QueenAlex

Charles didn't have to say outright that he wanted a divorce.  It was obvious.  He would not have asked himself, because until the Basihir interview, he probably had no chance of getting permission.   But he had an unhappy marriage, he was estranged from Diana who was hitting out at him in the press at every opportunity, he had a woman he loved and was happier with.  Why would he not want an official end ot the marriage and to be free to be with Camilla and possibly marry her? 

Diana was ousted.  She lost her HRH.  She was invited to royal events but was not comfortable at them and clearly was only asked in the spirit of trying to maintain some kind of unity, for the sake of the children and the monarchy...  She could see that by openly breaking the marriage, she had actually opened the way for Camilla to be with Charles and possibly in due course to marry him.  Insofar as one can guess what Diana was thinking, its possible that she thought that the Morton book would either force Charles to give up Camilla or to give up his place in the succession and neither things happened.
She got on with her life because she had no alternative.  But its significant that she was on holiday with the Fayeds because she didn't really have an alternative.  Her American friend Lana Marks was supposed to go on holiday with her that summer and had to cancel because her father died.  So Diana was at a loose end and rather than spend the summer staring at the walls in London she took up the Fayeds' offer of hosptiality...
The divorce was inevitable, but it didn't come wihtout a huge cost to Diana...

oak_and_cedar

His opinion did matter as a prince of Wales and heir to the throne. His request would be taken in to account. Still it was HM that initiated the divorce and not prince Charles. That is telling, IMO.

Her being invited to royal events belies the notion that she was 'ousted'. As her sons got older they would have made sure she was included. Prince William even said that she would get her HRH back when he became king.

I think PC admitting that Camilla was his mistress had something to do with it. The Morton book was published to counter the leaking to the papers against her.

She got on with her life because she wanted to. And was busy doing so. She had several options but decided to spend some time with the Fayeds because she knew them as long time family friends.




LouisFerdinand

How different would things have been if Lana Marks had gone on holiday with Princess Diana?  :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:


QueenAlex

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 06, 2020, 04:03:44 AM
His opinion did matter as a prince of Wales and heir to the throne. His request would be taken in to account. Still it was HM that initiated the divorce and not prince Charles. That is telling, IMO.

Her being invited to royal events belies the notion that she was 'ousted'. As her sons got older they would have made sure she was included. Prince William even said that she would get her HRH back when he became king.

I think PC admitting that Camilla was his mistress had something to do with it. The Morton book was published to counter the leaking to the papers against her.

She got on with her life because she wanted to. And was busy doing so. She had several options but decided to spend some time with the Fayeds because she knew them as long time family friends.

Well its over 20 years since Diana died and William isn't King.  In fact it is likely he wont be for a LONG time yet.  Diana was out.  She was invited to the RFs events for the sake of her sons and ot keep up appearances.  And she didn't enjoy going.  She went to Sandringham for Christmas and left after church, she clearly was uncomfortable with the RF and they with her.
The divorce happened because the queen realized that she could not control Diana.  The Bashir interview was the final straw and she realised that the whole mess had to stop and she had to put Diana firmly out of the family.  Charles had admitted Camilla was his mistress a year or more before the Interview but once Diana had questioned the succession in the interview the queen's mind was made up.
The queen initiated the divorce  because she was the one who had to OK it.  She had been the one who had been unwiling for them to divorce.  They had been separated for some time, and the queen had probably hoped that they could go on as a separated couple, still Prince and Princess of Wales and still keeping up some kind of a front.. but with the war going on in the papers, people taking sides and Diana undermining the RF, it could not go on any longer.

oak_and_cedar

If Diana was invited to royal events she wasn't 'frozen out' IMO.

We don't know that Diana was 'uncomfortable' with the RF and they with her.

HM didn't have initialize the divorce in order for her to OK it. It was sufficient to give her OK on the decision. Yet PC did not 'file' for divorce.
She probably decided on a divorce because the back and forth would continue.

Diana did not try to undermine the RF. That would mean she was trying to undermine the monarchy. She did not since it would put prince William's role as a future king at jeopardy. She took her role as the mother of the future king seriously and was always engaged in his (and prince Harry's of course) life.

QueenAlex

She was invited to things but out of politeness..  How could she expect the RF to be friendly with her when she had gone on TV  and talked about her marriage?  She had even questioned the succession which is laid down by Parliament.  That was what made the queen finally decide they had to get a divorce.

It clearly wasn't very comfortable for her at family gatherings, since she would not even stay for Christmas lunch, but went home after church..

Neither she nor Charles wanted to actually be the ones to sue for divorce.. Charles knew that he would be attacked as "he doesn't love our lovely Di and wants to be free".. but he DID want to be free and Diana had said she didn't want a divorce, so she did not want to be the one who sued. 
But she had more to lose than he had when they divorced. He got his freedom.  He's not as popular as he could be but he's POW, he's married to the woman he loves and he's a busy man with a good life.  Diana half realised that once she left the RF she was going to be OUT, and to lose the protection of being a royal.  She lost her HRH, she wasn't having an easy time finding a new love. And she would never be Queen.  I think she had wanted to get a divorce at first, but then began to panic at the prospect, realizing that she had alienated the RF and much of the upper crust and she was now going to have to make a new life among celebrities...
And yes I dont suppose she deliberately set out ot undermine the monarchy but she did do so..

LouisFerdinand

Was any report ever given about the opinions of Lady Sarah and Lady Jane on their sister Diana's divorce?


oak_and_cedar

Quote from: QueenAlex on July 11, 2020, 10:35:48 AM
She was invited to things but out of politeness..  How could she expect the RF to be friendly with her when she had gone on TV  and talked about her marriage?  She had even questioned the succession which is laid down by Parliament.  That was what made the queen finally decide they had to get a divorce.

It clearly wasn't very comfortable for her at family gatherings, since she would not even stay for Christmas lunch, but went home after church..

Neither she nor Charles wanted to actually be the ones to sue for divorce.. Charles knew that he would be attacked as "he doesn't love our lovely Di and wants to be free".. but he DID want to be free and Diana had said she didn't want a divorce, so she did not want to be the one who sued. 
But she had more to lose than he had when they divorced. He got his freedom.  He's not as popular as he could be but he's POW, he's married to the woman he loves and he's a busy man with a good life.  Diana half realised that once she left the RF she was going to be OUT, and to lose the protection of being a royal.  She lost her HRH, she wasn't having an easy time finding a new love. And she would never be Queen.  I think she had wanted to get a divorce at first, but then began to panic at the prospect, realizing that she had alienated the RF and much of the upper crust and she was now going to have to make a new life among celebrities...
And yes I dont suppose she deliberately set out ot undermine the monarchy but she did do so..

She was the mother of the future king. She had to be invited and the RF would always take into account prince William and prince Harry's opinion.

Overall the RF are kind to ex-spouses when it comes to socialising. Diana as the mother of a future king would still have a say and be present however, and whenever she so chose, IMO.

She had gone on TV and talked about her marriage because she was essentially being slandered for years. I seriously doubt HM and prince Philip were too pleased with prince Charles' interview.

Did she question the succession? I think she was discussing the limitations the role put on his outspokenness. There was an interview on his 70th birthday documentary where he was asked the same thing Diana was, whether he would be able to be 'diplomatic' such as HM has been.

Only prince Charles can answer why he did not file for divorce from Diana. I don't think there's romantic love between him and Camilla, but this is just IMO.

Diana was basically landing on her feet that last year after the divorce. During that year she was charging ahead with her charities and there were even plans of her engaging in new ones. I think I posted earlier an article about Diana becoming involved in the 'sweetpea' project, it was about medical illness of some sorts. She had been in contact with the hospital, doctors and charities who where involved with it.

She was divorced for only one year and was also dating. I don't think she would ever suffer a shortage of suitors, IMO. She still had loyal friends from the upper classes, see Julia Samuel who spoke fondly of her merely two weeks ago.

Diana did not in any way undermine the monarchy. Her son is the future of the monarchy. She would in no way undermine his future role.

QueenAlex

The RF aren't particular "kind" to ex in laws. I've never heard of Mark Philips being invited to things.. and he hadn't criticized Anne or spoken on TV about the succession.  Sarah is invited to some things but Philip can barely tolerate her.  and back years ago, when S and Andrew split up, Sarah wasnt invited to the house for Chrismtas but to a nearby farmhouse...

Why would they invite Diana except at times...to keep up appearances???  She had criticized her husband, spoken about her marriage to a reporter, given him a big scoop on how unhappy she was within the RF and how awful her husband was...When she was invited, to Christmas lunch she wouldn't even stay because she didn't feel comfortable with them.  Hardly surprisingly.   Yes Phil and the queen were angry with Charles but he's their son.. and if they were annoyed with him for speaking too freely just think how much more angry they must be with someone who wasn't a blood relation and who had been the one who started the war... Why do you think the RF and the queen were criticized at Diana's death?  Because they had (in the view of the press) rejected Diana... and not treated her as part of the family before and after the divorce.
Yes Diana did question the succession. She essentially said that she hoped her husband would not be King and that he would give up his claim to the throne and it would pass to William...
That was the last straw for the queen.. once she heard that, she wrote to the couple and told them they had to get a divorce.   Charles was only too happy, as he wanted to be free of his wife and to be able to be with Camilla.. Diana was panicked because she realized that now she had pushed matters too far and she had no option but to get a divorce.

She wasn't doing all that much with her charities.. and she was talking at times of dropping them..  she was all over the place..
As for dating, she was dating - Dodi fayed.  A man who was only with her because his father told him to court her..

Double post auto-merged: July 12, 2020, 11:19:10 AM


Quote from: LouisFerdinand on July 11, 2020, 11:38:12 PM
Was any report ever given about the opinions of Lady Sarah and Lady Jane on their sister Diana's divorce?

Of course not.

oak_and_cedar

The RF always invites the former spouses during appropriate times, out of courtesy. This is a matter of public record.

They had no need to 'keep up appearances' with regards to Diana. As the mother of the future king she was entitled to participate in events regarding prince William and prince Harry. Which she did. When her sons would grow older she would have become more involved.

Diana had 'started the war'? The woman was slandered for many years with leaks to the media about her. She gave her story once to a biographer.

It must have been disapointing for HM and PP to read criticisms about their parenting. I think the latest one to do so was Bedell Smith who wrote an official bio of PC?

No one can speak for HM except HM herself. The same goes for prince Philip and prince Charles. So I don't think assumptions can be made with regards to them disliking Diana and prince Charles being 'happy' about getting a divorce. It's better to try to look at their words and actions in order to get a clearer picture IMO. Prince philip and Diana wrote to each other several times and he, along with HM tried to do some counseling to salvage the marriage perhaps. I think HM and PP were disappointed at the outcome of the marriage and I personally don't believe that they 'disliked' Diana.

HM ordered the divorce perhaps because there would be a reply from PC and who knows what would be said then?

Diana never said she hoped prince Charles would not be king and give up his claim throne.

Diana did a trememdous amount for her charities her last year. She was not a working royal member and thus had to leave many charities in order to focus on a few. She focused on the issue of the landmines, AIDS, homelessness, and was looking to take on other charities in the fall.

Prince Harry even met up with some of the charities she had been in discussion with and expressed sympathy because her support would have meant a great deal.

I seriously doubt Dodi only dated Diana because his father 'commanded' him. For all we know he might have been in agreement with his father. He was quick in leaving his fianc? and seemed quite smitten with Diana. I think he had feelings for her and decided to pursue her.

QueenAlex

Quote from: oak_and_cedar on July 15, 2020, 02:29:36 AM
The RF always invites the former spouses during appropriate times, out of courtesy. This is a matter of public record.

They had no need to 'keep up appearances' with regards to Diana. As the mother of the future king she was entitled to participate in events regarding prince William and prince Harry. Which she did. When her sons would grow older she would have become more involved.

Diana had 'started the war'? The woman was slandered for many years with leaks to the media about her. She gave her story once to a biographer.

It must have been disapointing for HM and PP to read criticisms about their parenting. I think the latest one to do so was Bedell Smith who wrote an official bio of PC?

No one can speak for HM except HM herself. The same goes for prince Philip and prince Charles. So I don't think assumptions can be made with regards to them disliking Diana and prince Charles being 'happy' about getting a divorce. It's better to try to look at their words and actions in order to get a clearer picture IMO. Prince philip and Diana wrote to each other several times and he, along with HM tried to do some counseling to salvage the marriage perhaps. I think HM and PP were disappointed at the outcome of the marriage and I personally don't believe that they 'disliked' Diana.

HM ordered the divorce perhaps because there would be a reply from PC and who knows what would be said then?

Diana never said she hoped prince Charles would not be king and give up his claim throne.

Diana did a trememdous amount for her charities her last year. She was not a working royal member and thus had to leave many charities in order to focus on a few. She focused on the issue of the landmines, AIDS, homelessness, and was looking to take on other charities in the fall.

Prince Harry even met up with some of the charities she had been in discussion with and expressed sympathy because her support would have meant a great deal.

I seriously doubt Dodi only dated Diana because his father 'commanded' him. For all we know he might have been in agreement with his father. He was quick in leaving his fianc? and seemed quite smitten with Diana. I think he had feelings for her and decided to pursue her.

Im giving up on this.  But I will just repeat that Dodi left his fiancee because his father ordered him to.. but he didn't put an end ot the relationship.  That was left for MAF to do.. "brutally" as Kelly F said.  He may have found diana attractive but i doubt if he had any strong feelings for her or for Kelly.  He was too aimless to care much about any woman.. and he probably intended to keep the door open with Kelly but his father was quick to make sure that she was aware that her relationship with Dodi was finished.. at which point she sued for breach of promise..  If you think that Dodi's behaviour shows a man who had any very sincere feelings, I can't agree. He was willing to do whatever his father told him becuase he was an aimless man child who needed his father to pay the bills...

oak_and_cedar

His father might have done the 'dumping' but that does not mean that Dodi wasn't in agreement. He obviously had feelings for Diana(and she for him) as evidenced by the paparazzi photos and him pursuing her.

I think she did string Kelly along, in case Diana didn't 'respond' to his advances. I think when Diana did show interest, he didn't look back.

Dodi obivously didn't have sincere romantic feelings towards Kelly. As evidenced by his behaviour towards her. But only he can speak for how he felt about Diana.

I personally don't think he was all that. But he and Diana did seem to have 'chemistry'.

QueenAlex

I dont know if they had chemistry.. but IMO he didnt care about Diana or he would have made more of an effort to protect her.. He could have asked Diana out at any time in the past year, since she was free and he was unmarried.. But he didn't make advances to her until he was told to by his father.  Sorry but its clear to me that he wasn't in love with either his girifreind or Diana. the First was a relationship of convenience and he dropped Kelly as soon as his father told him to...(though he may have hoped to keep her on the side).. and the second relationship with Diana was wished on him by MAF.

oak_and_cedar

They did have chemistry, IMO, as evidenced by the 'PDA'.

Fayed did protect her by having bodyguards surrounding them during their vacation.

Fayed was in a relationship with Kelly previously and did not have opportunity to meet up with Diana. Perhaps during their vacation they got to know each other more and 'clicked'. Ultimately, only they can speak on their feelings. However their entering a romance is an indicator that they cared for each other.

That MAF encouraged his son to take up with Diana doesn't mean that Dodi was not in agreement.

He cared enough for Kelly to propose to her. However he then left her for Diana. Only Fayed can speak about how he felt about Kelly. I don't think their relationship was of 'convenience'. Kelly spoke about how Fayed cared about her and made her happy. I do think it was wrong of him to freeze her out basically and not telling her to her face. That was bad.

QueenAlex

They were his own bodyguards, paid for by his father..  he had them anyway so its not like he made a special effort to protect Diana. And while 2 men were enough to guard Dodi who was totally unknown to the world, they weren't enough to keep back a mob of photographers chasing Diana with her new beau.  If Dodi had cared for Di, he would never have chosen to use a driver who did not have experience or a licence to drive that car, who had been off duty, adn had been drinking, when he had experienced chauffeurs he could have used.  He would have cooperated with his security men instead of keeping them out of the loop, and making their work harder.  He would have gotten more security staff to help protect her.
Dodi did what his father told him.  He ditched his girlfriend whom he was on the verge of marrying.  If he had had any previous attraction to Diana, why didn't he break up with Kelly F ages before and ask Diana for a date?  He had nothing else to do...
He walked out on Kelly in Late July (they were planning apparelnty to get married on the 9th August) but didn't tell her he was leaving because he probably hoped to keep her on tap as his mistress while he pursued an official romance with Diana as his father was ordering.  If you think that shows any signs of caring very much for either woman I can't agree.   MAF clearly felt that it was necessary to sever the connection with Kelly because he clearly didn't trust Dodi to break it off, so he told her that the affair was over and that she wasn't to try and contact Dodi again..
All I can see is a messy selfish man haplessly obeying his father's orders and his father manipulating people ruthlessly to achieve his social ambitions..
I cant' imagine that Diana would care very much for Dodi when she realised how she was being manipulated.. I dont know if she had  a brief attraction towards him but I dont think it was all that serious. 
It gave her some amusement, and she used the "PDA" to show to the world and Charles and Hasnat Khan that she had  a new and rich boyfriend.  And she told more than  one friend that it was just a summer romance and she was having a good time, but that it wasn't serious...

oak_and_cedar

It was not Diana nor Dodis responsibility to keep paparazzi from harassing them. Fayed's bodyguards did their best to keep them safe. The bodyguards were highly trained and Diana even wrote to one of them because she was impressed with his knowledge and efforts. Fayed took a gamble that was unfortunately wrong and there are still questionmarks around that accident.

Fayed didn't have an opportunity to properly 'hang out' with and get to know Diana prior to their vacation in '97. His father might have been very encouraging but that doesn't mean that Fayed wasn't in agreement.  I personally believe that when he saw that Diana liked his company and was responsive he dumped Kelly and didn't look back.

He dumped Kelly in an cruel way but that doesn't mean he did or would do the same with Diana. From her letters to him she was happy with his company and treatment. Even Kelly said, after he passed away, that inspite of the transgressions, he made her very happy and she wished she could tell him that. However, I don't think he was 'all that'.

Diana didn't need to show a previous partner anything. She was in a relationship with Fayed and if she was that keen on 'showing' Khan and Charles, she would have been 'hanging out' with Fayed only for the pics being taken and then left him. Instead she met him at his home, his family's,  he visited her, they went out incognito etc. In other words it was a courtship. There are even pictures of them in the hotel an hour before the crash where Diana walked up to Fayed and drawing him closer to her. With that theory in mind she would then use the 'CCTV' images to send to prince Charles and Khan? Neither men, IMO, were worth the effort and Diana clearly had moved on.


QueenAlex

so if she had moved on, why was she telling friends that the relationship was only a summer romance?  Why did she say that if he gave her a ring, ti would go on her right hand?
She said wildly contradictory things about her relationship with Dodi.. one minute seh was all lovey dovey, other times she spoke of its being just summer fun and something that would not lead to anything serious.
When they died, MAF claimed that they were engaged and that DI was pregnant by Dodi..and that she had spent a long time in the Windsor Villa which he owned, planning to live there.  Video footage show's that they didn't spent any length of time there at all.. and it seems that Diana didn't like the place
If THAT was true,  that she didn't' see it as a log term thing...why did she let MAF inveigle  her into a relationship at all?  She must have known what a horrible man he was..and how he would take any interest on her part as a reason to claim that she and Dodi were the real thing.  how could she have cared all that much for a man who was his father's puppet, who didn't pay his bills?  Who had had a drug problem?