New Titles for the Wessexes

LouisFerdinand · November 25, 2022, 08:56:21 PM

Upon his marriage to Sophie, was Prince Edward offered the dukedom of Cambridge?

:xmas14: :xmas14: :xmas14: :xmas14:

Curryong · November 25, 2022, 09:36:44 PM

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on November 25, 2022, 08:56:21 PM
Upon his marriage to Sophie, was Prince Edward offered the dukedom of Cambridge?

:xmas14: :xmas14: :xmas14: :xmas14:

I don?t think the Queen and Edward actually got into specifics of what ducal title he wanted. They certainly had deep discussions about titles at the time of his and Sophie?s engagement as we know because that?s when the Earldom of Wessex was decided on as Edward liked it so much. But I do think that the Queen got an idea long before the engagement that the couple didn?t want ducal titles, that both wanted to continue on with their careers and so on.

As for the Dukedom of Cambridge I think it was always a contender in the Ducal stakes as the other traditional ones, York, Gloucester etc, were already taken and it had been in the family before with George IIIs son.

TLLK · November 26, 2022, 03:33:09 PM

I wonder if the royal Dukedom of Clarence has just been retired by the monarchy?

Amabel2 · November 26, 2022, 04:56:36 PM

Quote from: TLLK on November 26, 2022, 03:33:09 PM
I wonder if the royal Dukedom of Clarence has just been retired by the monarchy?

I think so, after Albert Victor and George who was drowned in butt of malmsey, I'd say it is one royal title that wont ever come back. But possible that Edward will get another dukedom if he wants one.. I am not sure what Phil's other titles were, but givne the queen's wish it might be a nice thing for Edw to get one of them as another title.

Curryong · November 26, 2022, 08:03:08 PM

Quote from: Amabel2 on November 26, 2022, 04:56:36 PM
I think so, after Albert Victor and George who was drowned in butt of malmsey, I'd say it is one royal title that wont ever come back. But possible that Edward will get another dukedom if he wants one.. I am not sure what Phil's other titles were, but givne the queen's wish it might be a nice thing for Edw to get one of them as another title.

No, I don?t think Edward or anyone else will get Clarence. Too unlucky. If Charles, for whatever reason refuses to create Edinburgh again for Edward (and personally I think it?s nervousness about Scotland?s future) then I can?t see why he can?t just elevate Edward?s present title to a dukedom so he could be Duke of Wessex. Problem solved and it was done, in slightly different circumstances for the dour older son in law of Edward VII, McDuff, who became the Duke of Fife, the family Earldom being Fife.

However, if for some reason Edward remains an Earl which wouldn?t surprise me, if things go as they have done in the last few generations, the next royal dukedom will be George?s, when he marries.

TLLK · November 27, 2022, 01:32:05 PM

@Curryong and @Amabel2 -I had a feeling that the Clarence title had too many issues associated with it.

@Curryong's suggestion of just elevating the Wessex title to a dukedom seems like a reasonable suggestion. If the goal is to not expand the number of royal dukes, then it can be stipulated that Edward's heir, James will not be a royal duke when he inherits the title and can just be "His Grace the Duke of Wessex." James' heir can be the Earl of Forfar.

Amabel2 · November 27, 2022, 01:41:32 PM

well James would probalby not be HRH the Duke of? anyway would he? Unless he chose to be titled as HRH when he turned 18?
I think that the main reason for Edward being suggested as Duke of Ed was to give Philip's title to one of his sons, but given that its a Scottish title, I think it might be more tactful not to give it, now. And possibly, both Ed and Charles have emotional feelings about the title... Ed might not want it as it is such big shoes to fill, and Charles possibly associates it with his own father, with whom he had a complicated relationship. But as i have a soft spot for old Philip, i think it woudl be nice if ONE of his titles went to his son.. Not sure what P's secondary titles were, but one of them could be recreated for Edward.

TLLK · November 27, 2022, 02:43:07 PM

These were Phillip's secondary titles: Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwhich. Merionethshire is one of Wales' historic counties and Greenwich has long been associated with the Navy so that's probably why it was selected.

Amabel2 · November 27, 2022, 03:03:05 PM

Quote from: TLLK on November 27, 2022, 02:43:07 PM
These were Phillip's secondary titles: Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwhich. Merionethshire is one of Wales' historic counties and Greenwich has long been associated with the Navy so that's probably why it was selected.

I vaguley recall Baron Greenwich. Earl of merioneth would be OK I suppose as long as the Welsh are staying within the UNion, and Ed would be a Triple earl!

wannable · November 28, 2022, 01:55:31 PM

In reference to that ! Title:
RP's comments (a thread) in twitter. (As I said in Charlotte's thread, more live discussion there than in forums. We resist to die though)

Richard Palmer
@RoyalReporter

The change in view appears to be to do with Edward and Sophie not wanting royal titles and duties for their children. It?s still not officially ruled out that Edward gets the Edinburgh title though. All will become clear eventually.

Also RP in reference to Prince Philip's wish rather than Elizabeth, also the discussion of the Title actually started in the month of July 2021

Quote
It's essentially been their line since it emerged in July last year that the then Prince Charles was no longer committed to the undertaking he, the Queen and Prince Philip gave in 1999 to hand the title to Prince Edward after his parents death. It was Philip's wish.
Unquote

sara8150 · November 28, 2022, 04:30:10 PM

Sophie Wessex could lose out on treasured title to Princess Charlotte as Duchess of Edinburgh role undecided | The Sun
Remember when Edward and Sophie got married in June 19,1999 late Queen Elizabeth says dukedom Edinburgh will torched to Edward and Sophie Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh its Philip?s wishes when Queen Elizabeth and Duke of Edinburgh?s death but im not surprised King Charles makes decisions give to Princess Charlotte titles include Duchess of Edinburgh and also if Princess Anne died will torch to Princess Charlotte Princess Royal and also if Prince Andrew died will torch to Prince Louis of Dukedom York Prince George will remain Prince of Wales because of he is firstborn like his father and grandfather must have follow throne order

QuoteWhen William ascends to the throne, Charlotte could be given the title of The Princess Royal - which Princess Anne has held.

According to mirror says

sara8150 · January 21, 2023, 11:08:36 PM

Duke of Edinburgh title likely to go to Edward over Princess Charlotte, as per Queen's wishes | Daily Mail Online
King Charles makes decisions to give his younger brother become Duke of Edinburgh articles says remember back to June 19,1999 when Prince Edward married to Sophie both will take Prince Philip?s titles after late Duke of Edinburgh?s death in 2021

sara8150 · January 21, 2023, 11:39:38 PM

Prince Edward could inherit new title as Charles has 'change of heart' | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

King Charles 'to make Prince Edward the Duke of Edinburgh after change of heart' - Mirror Online

Major update to royal titles with Charles 'set to make his brother the Duke of Edinburgh' after 'insulting' snub | The Sun

Curryong · January 22, 2023, 01:25:19 AM

So it seems that King Charles has changed his mind once more IF these stories are true. Best to wait and see.

sara8150 · January 22, 2023, 02:45:11 AM

Quote from: Curryong on January 22, 2023, 01:25:19 AM
So it seems that King Charles has changed his mind once more IF these stories are true. Best to wait and see.

I?m agreed with you

Amabel2 · January 22, 2023, 08:57:11 AM

Quote from: Curryong on January 22, 2023, 01:25:19 AM
So it seems that King Charles has changed his mind once more IF these stories are true. Best to wait and see.

Why this touching faith in the tabloids? They are just filling up their pages...
Given that Charles has a coronation, taking over as king after 70 years, and the Harry problem, Im sure he has plenty to think of, without worryin about Edinburgh's title. He is probably deciding what is best to do with the title as it is 20 years and more since the queen made this arrangement and thigns have changed

sara8150 · January 22, 2023, 06:20:09 PM

Quote from: Amabel2 on January 22, 2023, 08:57:11 AM
Why this touching faith in the tabloids? They are just filling up their pages...
Given that Charles has a coronation, taking over as king after 70 years, and the Harry problem, Im sure he has plenty to think of, without worryin about Edinburgh's title. He is probably deciding what is best to do with the title as it is 20 years and more since the queen made this arrangement and thigns have changed

Yes when Edward married Sophie in 1999 and late Prince Philip vows give him titles Duke of Edinburgh but King Charles makes decisions give Edward Duke of Edinburgh we have wait and see not before coronation or wait till after coronation but wait till confirmed from Buckingham Palace have to say

Prince Harry had problems YES!! due he admit bombshell interview include with Oprah,Netflix,his memoir books bombshell more embarrassed his family members of the royal family but Harry claims in books of his experience tours and paparazzi plus Diana?s accident and death but paparazzi did to Diana in 1997

Curryong · March 10, 2023, 11:07:00 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64913224

Prince Edward has been named as the new Duke of Edinburgh, Buckingham Palace has announced.
The title, granted by King Charles III on the prince's 59th birthday, will be held for his lifetime.

Unusual, for lifetime only? Perhaps Charles has plans for Louis in the future? It?s been a long time coming in comparison to the POW for William, but at least now all speculation has ceased.

A busy time lately for the changing of threads here at RIF, mods!

Amabel2 · March 10, 2023, 11:57:01 AM

Seems a good idea, It will not tie down the Edinburgh title for ever, so if Scotland leaves the UK, there wont be so many issues. and it will mean that the children dont have the title which they probalby dont want.

Curryong · March 10, 2023, 12:31:17 PM

Quote from: Amabel2 on March 10, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
Seems a good idea, It will not tie down the Edinburgh title for ever, so if Scotland leaves the UK, there wont be so many issues. and it will mean that the children dont have the title which they probalby dont want.

Yes, that?s right. However, I have a feeling that besides Scotland that remains problematic, a primary reason for the life peerage is that Charles has Edinburgh in mind for Louis eventually. By rights Louis should get York after Charles and Andrew die. However the Windsors live forever and the York dukedom is besmirched quite a bit. Much better to warehouse York for a while and have a nice newish title like Edinburgh as a life peerage for Louis in his middle age, after great-uncle Edward passes.

York is a bit tainted as I said, and the grand old title of Gloucester will be going out of the family as well. Kent too.

Amabel2 · March 10, 2023, 12:42:35 PM

There is no by rights about it.

Curryong · March 10, 2023, 12:55:18 PM

Quote from: Amabel2 on March 10, 2023, 12:42:35 PM
There is no by rights about it.

By custom then. The second son of the monarch has received the Dukedom of York by custom the majority of the time over the centuries.

?Duke of York is a title of nobility in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. Since the 15th century, it has, when granted, usually been given to the second son of English (later British) monarchs. The equivalent title in the Scottish peerage was Duke of Albany. However, King George II and King George III granted the titles Duke of York and Albany.?

Admittedly the above is from Wiki but this is correct.

TLLK · March 10, 2023, 01:17:29 PM

Congratulations to the new Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh. :princessgrace: This is a well-deserved title for the couple.
Viscount Severen will now be known as the Earl of Wessex. Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor retains her title.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64913224

QuoteBuckingham Palace said in a statement on Friday: "His Majesty The King has been pleased to confer the Dukedom of Edinburgh upon the Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex and Forfar, on the occasion of His Royal Highness's 59th birthday.

"The title will be held by Prince Edward for His Royal Highness's lifetime.

"The Dukedom was last created for Prince Philip in 1947, upon his marriage to Princess Elizabeth, who held the title of Duchess of Edinburgh before acceding to the throne in 1952.

"The new Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh are proud to continue Prince Philip's legacy of promoting opportunities for young people of all backgrounds to reach their full potential."

Amabel2 · March 10, 2023, 01:20:23 PM

Its still in the Kings gift. we dont know if by the time Louis is the Kings son, if the younger children of a monach will get a ducal title. Or mabye they will get it for life as C has doen for Edward.

TLLK · March 10, 2023, 01:22:51 PM

Quote from: Curryong on March 10, 2023, 11:07:00 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64913224

Prince Edward has been named as the new Duke of Edinburgh, Buckingham Palace has announced.
The title, granted by King Charles III on the prince's 59th birthday, will be held for his lifetime.

Unusual, for lifetime only? Perhaps Charles has plans for Louis in the future? It?s been a long time coming in comparison to the POW for William, but at least now all speculation has ceased.

A busy time lately for the changing of threads here at RIF, mods!

I've already scheduled a manicure for today @Curryong. :happy: Working to update these threads is taking a toll on my fingers!