The War Of The Wales Years & Behaviour Of All Those Involved

[Trudie]

^ Kobe Bryant's wife was a nobody before she married him and probably loves the lifestyle. As for Hillary and Bill well that is a very powerful political alliance. But again they want to put up with it. Again the mistresses did not practically move in and undermine the wife.

[sandy]

I am so tired of people acting like Charles is some anomaly because he lived in a world where husbands have mistresses. Charles is far from the only man in the royal family who has lived this way, nor is it only a British thing. American aristocracy live by the same rules as evidenced by marriages like JFK and Jackie and FDR and Eleanor. I've even heard of these kinds of arrangements in sports like basketball etc. I'm not saying it's

I agree Katerina.  I don't think ti is that unusual, among upper class people of whatever era and Charles is hardly "a unique monster," in that respect.
It may be acceptable now for the upper classes to divorce, the way it wasn't 50 years ago, but not all of them rush to the divorce court every time they find out about an indiscretion.  I agree that I don't think that Charles intended to return to his affair with Cam, when he married. I think that he was not happy with DI, she wasn't happy with him, the marriage was a failure, and he turned back to his old love and left Di to find a man herself if she wanted.
I don't know if it was so common among the American upper classes, but probably it was,
and even today, in other ranks of society, I should say that a lot of people turn a blind eye, and don't go rusihng off to end their marriages over an affair...

Very true Amabel, even today women still put up with it for different reaeons. In America the basketball player Kobe Bryant is still married to the woman he cheate on. Hilary Clinton is still married and we may never know how many affairs Bill had, I mean do you really think the Lewinsky debacle would scare him enough to keep his pants on? I've heard rumors that th3 rule is just dont embarrass me. Of course I'm not excusing Charles behavior just pointing out that it is not isolated to him and there are many marriages that work despite infidelity.

Monica Lewinsky did not get to marry Bill Clinton. Camilla succeeded in seeing off the wife. Hillary and Bill have more of an alliance and political ambitions. Hillary knows she would never be replaced by a mistress.

Saying other people do it does not whitewash Charles and Camilla's actions.

Camilla had a lot riding on the C and D marriage not working and she undermined Diana every step of the way.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 01:13:38 AM

Thank you SophieChloe it is refreshing to see someone else who thinks it is just nasty. Besides Charles and Diana married in the 1980's not Victorian or Edwardian England nor the mid century where the Aristocratic men felt it was a boost to their manhood and wives accepted it because they had no choice because they were dependent on their husbands financially. For a man who likes to think of himself as enlightened Charles was born in the wrong century or time and place because that behavior is totally unacceptable.

Count me in I think it is nasty and unacceptable behavior. It is also sexist and the man is condoned for treating the wife like dirt.

[sandy]

well they were in a difficult positon.  I don't say the boys wanted to invite her -but if they didn't it would look bad.  and possible it was felt that it would look bad if she said no, initially.  I think she might have been better to make a polite refusal from the first but to thank them for the invite, but say it was their mother and she didn't want to intrude.

Camilla and Charles should have had common sense and both stayed away. There really was no reason even for Charles to go since the only relationship they really shared was Diana being the mother of his heirs. The way both treated Diana IMO it was a slap in the face for even one to attend. Camilla could have said no in the very beginning however she didn't and then it was put out she didn't want to attend but Charles wanted her there. Well as I said Charles slapped Diana in the face even though she had been dead 10 years for even dreaming of bringing Camilla but he also had the nerve to go and did.

I agree. One odd thing I noticed is that Charles had to inspect the speech Harry had prepared about Diana. As if he might find something "subversive."  I think both Charles should have stayed away along with Camilla. A bit late in the day for Charles to honor Diana's memory. He had no honor for her in her lifetime. Seems very fake to me.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 01:19:25 AM

Fine Canuck lets think about it he was right to support his sons however, they were by then adults and Charles should have shown common sense and decency by no insisting Camilla go. Charles showed support for his sons at the proper time Diana's funeral they were school boys ten years later they were adults no reason for Charles to hold their hand. I have two children by my first marriage in the event something happens to my ex husband I have no intentions of going with my husband now, I will just console my children in private.

While I agree Charles' support was far more urgently needed immediately after Diana's death when the boys were younger, I don't think that means his support was not also appreciated on the occasion of her memorial. 

As to the public perception, Charles was unlikely to placate Diana's most ardent fans either way.  If he hadn't gone, he would have been accused of disrespecting her, turning his back on his sons, etc.  Given the very public nature of their marriage and Diana's role as a member of the BRF, I think it was right for Charles to attend the memorial even if some people (in private families, attending private funerals/memorials) would not do the same for their exes.

I think in the end it was the right decision for Camilla not to go, but I don't blame anyone for initially deciding that she should attend.  That was an even trickier situation.

Charles did seem out of place and I think it would have been better for him to stay with Camilla at home. I think he would have shown respect by staying away.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 01:21:12 AM

The Duchess was INVITED by her stepsons and declined and even then she was INVITED again any other spin on the situation is just that spin and Di's fans imagination working over time ...

There were no decrees or statements that this is true. I think it was whitewashing.  I think the boys breathed sighs of relief when Camllla backed down. And why Camilla would even consider this is really weird--she would be inviting a lot of criticism to herself with the media going after her for hypocrisy. And undoing all the Spin that Charles orchestrated.

She considered going because HER FAMILY her husband and his sons invited her INVITED her !!! It was an impossible situation for her she was invited as the boy's stepmother but she couldn't go for obvious reasons declining and having to tell them NO over and over again !!!

I don't believe the boys asked her again much less urged her to attend. Why would they want to turn their mother's memorial into a travesty with Camilla hijacking the event. It was not an impossible situation if she had had the decency to say no even if her obtuse husband said she should go.

[TLLK]

I am so tired of people acting like Charles is some anomaly because he lived in a world where husbands have mistresses. Charles is far from the only man in the royal family who has lived this way, nor is it only a British thing. American aristocracy live by the same rules as evidenced by marriages like JFK and Jackie and FDR and Eleanor. I've even heard of these kinds of arrangements in sports like basketball etc. I'm not saying it's

I agree Katerina.  I don't think ti is that unusual, among upper class people of whatever era and Charles is hardly "a unique monster," in that respect.
It may be acceptable now for the upper classes to divorce, the way it wasn't 50 years ago, but not all of them rush to the divorce court every time they find out about an indiscretion.  I agree that I don't think that Charles intended to return to his affair with Cam, when he married. I think that he was not happy with DI, she wasn't happy with him, the marriage was a failure, and he turned back to his old love and left Di to find a man herself if she wanted.
I don't know if it was so common among the American upper classes, but probably it was,
and even today, in other ranks of society, I should say that a lot of people turn a blind eye, and don't go rusihng off to end their marriages over an affair...

No they don't. I've read it was considered more as a middle-class trait to end a marriage over an affair. The upper classes appeared to look the other way more frequently in the past decades and centuries. However, I believe that in recent years more people are unwilling to put up with that type of behavior. (The marital woes of American politicians that have played out on the front pages with some spouses leaving and some choosing to stay.)

Glad to know that I'm firmly middle-class.

[Curryong]

 :hide:  :hide:

[sandy]

things could have very easily gone the wrong way for Cam and Charles and it is amazing they both were willing to "play with fire".

The Archbishop of Canterbury could have refused to cooperate and said a divorced and remarried man could not be Head of the CoE - Parliament could have refused - George IV wanted a divorce and parliament refused him - the public could have expressed such outrage that  he would never have been able to be King - a lot could have gone wrong and he too could have ended up giving up his position as heir for the "woman he loved".  It really took a lot of chutzpah from these two when you consider what they were risking.  Cam might have spent the rest of her days as his mistress - to be overlooked and maybe even abandoned when he became King - the two Princes could have rebelled also  refusing to go along with the marriage.

It is as if the two of them just sort of drifted into where they are now - Di could have refused to divorce and went along - in which case again Camilla would have been nothing more than the mistress - barred from official events etc.
What was her plan?  Did she really just want to be his mistress?  I rather doubt she thought she could mastermind

Cam did not want to be queen, she never envisaged Diana wanting a divorce and was IMO more than happy to remain as C's mistress all her life.

I agree, Camilla still doesn't seem so keen on the idea of being Queen or a Princess. Its just what has been thrown at her because of the choices she and others made. She didn't scheme into this posituon, she seemed fine to be left in the background.

I think she  would have been if not perfectly happy, with being C's mistress, happy enough.  I dot think she ever thought that Charles and Di would divorce, but when they did, naturally she was going to want to marry him and I certainly can't blame her for wanting to share his rank.  But I don't think she was ever crazy about being Queen.. per se.

Maybe she does not like to work that hard at royal duties but she seems to be grinning and preening for photos seeking out cameras and wearing the bling. If she were not crazy about being Queen she could have said no to Charles proposal.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 03:42:01 AM

Whatever The Duchess did (if she indeed did it) was in The Princes's home!!! So if anything HE should be burned to the stake for it ... not that I think he should as Di HAD THE NERVE to sleep IN HIS HOME with her lover HEWITT !!! So here comes that very funny time of the Day when Di fans throw stones from her glass house seriously every single thing Cam did Di did also so some trying to make The Duchess out to be a "monster" is hilarious and useless as very few buy into it especially we under 40 ...

It was her home too. So if these "rules" apply Kate is just chattel and William can toss her out on a whim from His House. The royal wives get the titles their husbands have and the husband's homes are their homes too. Diana did get KP in the divorce settlement a home she shared with Charles. Camilla fans do plenty of tossing of stones from glass houses.

Camilla played hostess at Highgrove in the Wife's absence. She ordered around servants. And she certainly did not "own" Highgrove. Camilla threw her weight around.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 03:45:34 AM

Charles got criticized by his fellow officers for sleeping with Camilla, a fellow officer's wife.  The complaints to the Queen fell on deaf ears. Had he not had the POW title he would have been ousted or perhaps demoted. Which is why he had this huge sense of entitlement since people kowtowed to him.

And I cannot believe the usual "everybody does it" excuse. Everybody doesn't.

Charles maternal grandfather was involved with a married woman (according to documents used in the Shawcross authorized biography of the Queen Mother) before he became interested in Lady Elizabeth. He had enough sense to say goodbye for good to the married woman and marry someone suitable and not keep the married woman on the side because "he could." Too bad Charles did not share this attitude.

[Eri]

Whatever The Duchess did (if she indeed did it) was in The Princes's home!!! So if anything HE should be burned to the stake for it ... not that I think he should as Di HAD THE NERVE to sleep IN HIS HOME with her lover HEWITT !!! So here comes that very funny time of the Day when Di fans throw stones from her glass house seriously every single thing Cam did Di did also so some trying to make The Duchess out to be a "monster" is hilarious and useless as very few buy into it especially we under 40 ...

Really Eri ? then since you are under 40 and wasn't old enough to remember all that really happened I find it hilarious that you say Diana fans throw stones from her glass house. No Diana didn't do the same things as Camilla first of all Diana never took over a wife's home and undermined her. As for sleeping with Hewitt in HIS HOME well News flash Charles never owned his homes, Highgrove is owned by the Duchy of Cornwall Diana was The Duchess of Cornwall and KP is owned by the Crown. Now are you married? if so I then assume the home you share with your husband is His HOME rendering you either homeless or a simple room mate.

If the home wasn't Chuck's how could it be Di's?   :hmm: The home was bought by The Prince before he was married to his first wife and he lives there with his second wife it is no one's home but his!!! It takes a special kind of woman to sleep on the home owned by your husband with your lover with your kids there and Di was that kind of special ... so again I wouldn't go into a competition on who was bad and who was good because Di was no Angel as everything Cam did Di did also so ...

[Trudie]

Eri it was Chuck and Di's marital home.  While you think Diana was that kind of special woman she learned from the Master Camilla herself. Camilla would have Charles over to Boldehyde manor the home she shared with her husband for weekends her kids were present and so was Andrew who would discreetly leave them alone that  has been put out there and I also remember TPB speaking about Sir coming over in his youth while plugging a book. I never said Diana was an Angel but Diana was not the one who brought a lover into her marriage keep that in mind.

[Trudie]

Well not to go off Topic in 1977 Princess Margaret's marriage ended because of infidelity Charles and Diana married in 1981 so in the real grand scheme of things there were some just not willing to look the other way.

[SophieChloe]

[mod]Hi Folks, I have merged all 3 threads discussing the behaviour of Charles, Diana, & Camilla during the War of the Wales years :flower: [/mod]

[TLLK]

 A good idea SophieChloe and thank you for doing this.

[amabel]

If it is true that Camilla didn't want to go to the Diana memorial (and I'm still not sure of that) but Charles insisted, then it is yet another example of his obtuseness in emotional matters. It's just a lack of sensitivity and common sense that I can't comprehend.

I doubt if she wanted to go, but possibly Chalres felt that it would look  better if she DID attend.

[Canuck]

That's my sense, amabel.  Here's an article from the time explaining some of what went on:

Vivien Parry, a friend and one of the original trustees of the Diana memorial committee, said that she felt sympathy for the duchess. "I do feel sorry for her as Camilla probably did not want to go or feel it was right to go from the outset.

"This has become a public relations disaster. The Royals appear to have learnt little from the lessons of 10 years ago.

"Camilla was stuck between a rock and a hard place because the Prince of Wales wanted her to go and because she was asked by William and Harry. They are fond of her. She is fond of them. She wanted to support them.

Diana's memorial 'overshadowed by Camilla' - Telegraph

And from the same article, it does seem that Will and Harry were very much on board with inviting Camilla initially:

When Prince William and Prince Harry announced the service last December, they emphasized that it would be marked by a spirit of conciliation.

"The service is going to include both sides of the family, our mother's side and our father's side - everyone."

I think it was a nice idea on their part to bring everyone together, but ultimately Camilla was right to say she wouldn't attend -- the public was just not okay with it, and it would have been a distraction.

[amabel]

To be honest, I do feel now years later, if Cam was willing to go and the boys wanted her, it seems a bit much that the public, who did not know Diana, were able ot push her away from going.  Having said that, I think that she would probably not have really wanted to go, but I can quite see how Charles would think it looked better if she was accepted as part of the memorial.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 04:52:05 PM

Oh! If only Shakespeare was alive. He would have had a field day with this lot.   :windsor1:  Camilla sounded like a conniving, manipulative home wrecker. She came in like a wrecking ball!  :lol:

and how does that differ from Diana's being involved iwht 2 married men to the point where one marriage borke up and the other one certainly wobbled.  She wanted to get Ol Hoare to leave his wife and children for her.. wasnt' that home wrecking?

[Eri]

Eri it was Chuck and Di's marital home.  While you think Diana was that kind of special woman she learned from the Master Camilla herself. Camilla would have Charles over to Boldehyde manor the home she shared with her husband for weekends her kids were present and so was Andrew who would discreetly leave them alone that  has been put out there and I also remember TPB speaking about Sir coming over in his youth while plugging a book. I never said Diana was an Angel but Diana was not the one who brought a lover into her marriage keep that in mind.

Other than it being Chuck's home as Di lived at KP !!! Let me get this straight ... let me get this straight ... Di could sleep with Hewitt (with the children there) on Chuck's PROPERTY  :puke: but God forbid if Chuck invited at dinner whoever in HIS bloody home OK ... where is the roll eyes emotion around here?

[sandy]

Hewitt never played host in Charles absence nor ordered the servants around like Camilla did.

Charles played house with Camilla at Highgrove yet Diana is crucified for bringing hewitt there. Double standards anybody? There is no way to prove or disprove Hewitt slept with Diana there. According to his book they spent "those times" at KP and at his mother's home.

It is OK I suppose for Charles to have romps with Camilla  in the Highgrove Garden while his wife and children were asleep.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 06:09:04 PM

To be honest, I do feel now years later, if Cam was willing to go and the boys wanted her, it seems a bit much that the public, who did not know Diana, were able ot push her away from going.  Having said that, I think that she would probably not have really wanted to go, but I can quite see how Charles would think it looked better if she was accepted as part of the memorial.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 04:52:05 PM

Oh! If only Shakespeare was alive. He would have had a field day with this lot.   :windsor1:  Camilla sounded like a conniving, manipulative home wrecker. She came in like a wrecking ball!  :lol:

and how does that differ from Diana's being involved iwht 2 married men to the point where one marriage borke up and the other one certainly wobbled.  She wanted to get Ol Hoare to leave his wife and children for her.. wasnt' that home wrecking?

I don't think the boys "wanted her there." Charles controls the PR spin and could put out such stories. The boys would have to be totally brain dead to think it would be "OK" for the woman who loathed their mother to "honor" their mother. She would have totally hijacked the purpose of the Memorial Service.

Charles just shows how much of a dolt he is if he thought it "OK" for Camilla to be there.

Hoare is still with his wife to this day. He never confirmed or denied an affair. Carling denied an affair.

Camilla undermined Diana every step of the way and got most of what Diana had.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 06:12:26 PM

That's my sense, amabel.  Here's an article from the time explaining some of what went on:

Vivien Parry, a friend and one of the original trustees of the Diana memorial committee, said that she felt sympathy for the duchess. "I do feel sorry for her as Camilla probably did not want to go or feel it was right to go from the outset.

"This has become a public relations disaster. The Royals appear to have learnt little from the lessons of 10 years ago.

"Camilla was stuck between a rock and a hard place because the Prince of Wales wanted her to go and because she was asked by William and Harry. They are fond of her. She is fond of them. She wanted to support them.

Diana's memorial 'overshadowed by Camilla' - Telegraph

And from the same article, it does seem that Will and Harry were very much on board with inviting Camilla initially:

When Prince William and Prince Harry announced the service last December, they emphasized that it would be marked by a spirit of conciliation.

"The service is going to include both sides of the family, our mother's side and our father's side - everyone."

I think it was a nice idea on their part to bring everyone together, but ultimately Camilla was right to say she wouldn't attend -- the public was just not okay with it, and it would have been a distraction.

William and Harry never ever publicly said anything. I take this story with a grain of salt. The boys would have to be hard hearted brain dead people if they even remotely thought it was "OK" for Camilla to be there. She would have hijacked the Memorial Service. Plus it would have had a horrible effect on her image, making her look insensitive and just plain hypocritical.

Let's give the boys some credit for being decent human beings. Charles controlled the PR and no doubt wanted to use the boys in his quest to bring Camilla along.

The Queen was rumored to advise Camilla to refuse and have a "diplomatic" illness.

Camilla could have said no to the invite from the get go.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 06:14:15 PM

If it is true that Camilla didn't want to go to the Diana memorial (and I'm still not sure of that) but Charles insisted, then it is yet another example of his obtuseness in emotional matters. It's just a lack of sensitivity and common sense that I can't comprehend.

I doubt if she wanted to go, but possibly Chalres felt that it would look  better if she DID attend.

It would look a whole lot worse if she did attend. It shows Charles total stupidity if he felt that way.

[Trudie]

Eri it was Chuck and Di's marital home.  While you think Diana was that kind of special woman she learned from the Master Camilla herself. Camilla would have Charles over to Boldehyde manor the home she shared with her husband for weekends her kids were present and so was Andrew who would discreetly leave them alone that  has been put out there and I also remember TPB speaking about Sir coming over in his youth while plugging a book. I never said Diana was an Angel but Diana was not the one who brought a lover into her marriage keep that in mind.

Other than it being Chuck's home as Di lived at KP !!! Let me get this straight ... let me get this straight ... Di could sleep with Hewitt (with the children there) on Chuck's PROPERTY  :puke: but God forbid if Chuck invited at dinner whoever in HIS bloody home OK ... where is the roll eyes emotion around here?

Do you even take the time to read the posts you respond to? I said and if you can try reading my post slowly Charles had no problem going to Andrew Parker Bowles home Boldehyde Manor His Property to sleep with Camilla with the Parker Bowles children there so It takes a special kind of man and woman to do that with the Husband and Children home. So if you are now done being sick over Diana I suggest you park your self in the Loo and be Sick over Charles and Camilla.

That's my sense, amabel.  Here's an article from the time explaining some of what went on:

Vivien Parry, a friend and one of the original trustees of the Diana memorial committee, said that she felt sympathy for the duchess. "I do feel sorry for her as Camilla probably did not want to go or feel it was right to go from the outset.

"This has become a public relations disaster. The Royals appear to have learnt little from the lessons of 10 years ago.

"Camilla was stuck between a rock and a hard place because the Prince of Wales wanted her to go and because she was asked by William and Harry. They are fond of her. She is fond of them. She wanted to support them.

Diana's memorial 'overshadowed by Camilla' - Telegraph

And from the same article, it does seem that Will and Harry were very much on board with inviting Camilla initially:

When Prince William and Prince Harry announced the service last December, they emphasized that it would be marked by a spirit of conciliation.

"The service is going to include both sides of the family, our mother's side and our father's side - everyone."

I think it was a nice idea on their part to bring everyone together, but ultimately Camilla was right to say she wouldn't attend -- the public was just not okay with it, and it would have been a distraction.

The service was to include both sides of the family their mother's side and father's side the spirit was concilliation was for the hostility displayed by both sides at the time of Diana's death, The Windsor coolness and Earl Spencer eulogy. Camilla is not related to the Princes other then by her marriage to Charles she is not and never will be Blood family.

[sandy]

I agree Trudie, It would have been in the spirit of Bad Taste had Camilla shown up there.

[Trudie]

Beyond bad taste Sandy it's bad enough for the Spencer family to have to see photographs of Camilla at royal events with William and Harry grinning like the Cat who got the Cream playing loving Stepmummy. It would have been a total slap at such a semi private memorial for Diana to have her there.

[TLLK]

To be honest, I do feel now years later, if Cam was willing to go and the boys wanted her, it seems a bit much that the public, who did not know Diana, were able ot push her away from going.  Having said that, I think that she would probably not have really wanted to go, but I can quite see how Charles would think it looked better if she was accepted as part of the memorial.
Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 04:52:05 PM

Oh! If only Shakespeare was alive. He would have had a field day with this lot.   :windsor1:  Camilla sounded like a conniving, manipulative home wrecker. She came in like a wrecking ball!  :lol:

and how does that differ from Diana's being involved iwht 2 married men to the point where one marriage borke up and the other one certainly wobbled.  She wanted to get Ol Hoare to leave his wife and children for her.. wasnt' that home wrecking?

Not sure if it's home wrecking but she rattled the foundation IMO. :nod: All of those involved were not thinking of those whom they were hurting as they were far too focused on what they wanted.  :no:

[Canuck]

The thing is though - and I said this before - Camilla was yes an adulterous person who was utterly wrong but just like Diana she too was a woman who had certainly been subjected to the same restricted roles available for women of her class and the same misogynistic norms.  Do we - in the role of women enforcing paternalistic codes on other women - go after Camilla a bit harder than we go after Charles?

This is an excellent question, and I think the answer is often yes:  people seem to blame Camilla at least as much (and sometimes moreso) than Charles.

And that just doesn't seem right to me.  I don't really think Camilla cheated on her own husband -- by all accounts he was doing the same, and they both knew about one another's affairs and were fine with them.  That's just an open marriage without the label, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I do lay some blame on Camilla for engaging in an affair with a man she knew was married and whose wife was not okay with it.  That's obviously not an okay thing to do, and she doesn't get a pass from me on the grounds that it wasn't her marriage.  But Charles was far, far more in the wrong, as the person who actually made the vow to Diana, yet people seem to go after Camilla even more than him.  Which is typical of these situations, the woman is always blamed more.

And all of that said, I do think that ALL of the involved parties were in difficult situations.  Yes, Diana was very badly treated and I'm sure it was awful for her.  And Charles shouldn't have married someone he barely knew (and he was older and should have known better as compared to Diana).  But once he made that mistake and they turned out to be terribly incompatible, I have some sympathy for him.  No, he shouldn't have cheated, no matter what.  But he was in his mid 30s and basically trapped (at that point, no one thought the heir would be able to divorce) with a woman he didn't love or even get along with, facing the prospect that he would be married to her in an increasingly unhappy dynamic the rest of his life. 

If I had been in his shoes, I would like to think I would have handled it better.  But I don't know for sure I would have.  It's easy for all of us to sit here at our computers with no real stake in the situation condemning the people involved, but I know I'm far from perfect and I can understand how things might have gone so wrong on all sides.

[TLLK]

 :goodpost:Canuck and cate.

[amabel]

To Double post auto-merged: November 06, 2014, 04:52:05 PM

  :lol:

and how does that differ from Diana's being involved iwht 2 married men to the point where one marriage borke up and the other one certainly wobbled.  She wanted to get Ol Hoare to leave his wife and children for her.. wasn't' that home wrecking?

Not sure if it's home wrecking but she rattled the foundation IMO. :nod: All of those involved were not thinking of those whom they were hurting as they were far too focused on what they wanted.  :no:

She didn't succeed with Hoare, but I think that was not for want of trying.  He did leave his wife for a bit, but I think in the end he went back because he didn't' want to leave his wife, who had the money, nor his kids. as For Carling, his flirtation with Di Did result in  his wife getting a divorce.  Diana didn't care IMO about the wives or girlfriends of men she was interested in.   And that was her downfall.  the public began to feel that she was complaining about Camilla stealing her husband but she Had no scruple about taking other women's husbands.  I think she just didn't think, when she fell for a man, she just focused on getting him, and when she had his attention, as with Will C, I think she sometimes lost interest. But with Hoare, Id' say she was genuinely in love and wanted him to marry her, but he didn't really want ot.. He loved her but not enough to give up his family, and preferred in the end ot return ot his wife. If she had been content with affairs conducted discreetly and in private, where she accepted that the man wasnt' going to leave his family for her, and she wasn't going to give up her position for him, I doubt if she would have beene any more unhappy.. and stuck ot upper class men who knew how to be discreet and were not going to talk to the papers...
Double post auto-merged: November 08, 2014, 08:57:19 AM

?

ThisI
Yes, Diana was very badly treated and I'm sure it was awful for her.  And Charles shouldn't have married someone he barely knew (and he was older and should have known better as compared to Diana).  But once he made that mistake and they turned out to be terribly incompatible, I have some sympathy for him.  No, he shouldn't have cheated, no matter what.  But he was in his mid 30s and basically trapped (at that point, no one thought the heir would be able to divorce) with a woman he didn't love or even get along with, facing the prospect that he would be married to her in an increasingly unhappy dynamic the rest of his life. 

If I

I agree that Charles should have been more careful. I think he didn't know Di well, but he could have probably prolonged the courtship a bit longer, without too much public fuss.  There would have been some, because he was over 30, and he was now at an age where he should  marry, and Shy pretty Diana had attracted the Love and attention foe the press and public and everyone  saw her as the perfect Queen to be. But I think he might have gotten away with saying "I Dot know her well enough" for another few months.  Having said that, though, I think that Diana was convinced that she enjoyed the same things as he did and that she was capable of going on believing that to the point where she convinced Charles that she DID fit in iwht his life and share his feelings and hobbies.  She was Young and unformed....and eager to be his wife.

And So I'm not sure if a longer courtship would have really affected the outcome. I think that C was feeling he really had to get married.  If he gave Di up, and started all over again, would he find a suitable wife? And since he had to have a virgin, he was going to have to pick a  young girl.  I think he was fond enough of her to make himself believe he was in love, and that she was if rather young, well able to fit in with the RF and their lifestyle and with his.
I think once he had taken the plunge he did start to have doubts and perhaps he realised then that he would never feel as close to her as he did to Cam, but he was committed then and could not get out.  and he probably hoped that he would make her happy and she'd make him happy. I think that it became apparent on their honeymoon that things weren't going to be easy.  He could see that Di was losing weight  and was probably aware she was making herself vomit, on the ship... They had rows over his feelings for Camilla.  When they got to Balmoral Dian was weepy and sick and miserable and I think that it was obvious that there was something more than ordinary unhappiness going on.  -or trouble adjusting to married life,  hence the RF getting psychiatrists in...I think that Charles tred and so did Diana, but they were not compatible.  She was ill, she hated the formality of RF life, and felt trapped. They stumbled on for a few years, and had some Happy times, but as Di matured, I think she became more distanced from the lifestyle she Had married into, and did not like it much.  She and Charles grew Even more apart.
I think that since he knew he could not get a divorce and life with Diana was not working out he returned to Cam, and left Di to find a man who would make her happier... provided she was discreet, now that they Had the heir and spare. I can't see what else he could do. Would Di have been any happier with him, just because he was not seeing or sleeping with Camilla? would she like him any better? I don't think so.  If their sex life wasn't going well what was there between them except their children?  why pursue intimacy with someone you don't like or ge on with? So he stayed with Cam and Di found James Hewitt. It wasn't  a perfect solution but I tink it would have worked better than the way that DIana ended up playing it....

[amabel]

I don't see Diana as a wh)re, I sympathise with her.  I don't see Camilla as a whore either..

[amabel]

I do sympathise with DIana,. I just think she was very foolish..