The War Of The Wales Years & Behaviour Of All Those Involved

[amabel]

TLLK I agree that their war was very bad for the monarchy and for the 2 of them..both as people and as public figures. I think that both of them should have had the common sense to keep their marital problems private and just gone on towards getting a divorce..,. It hurt their sons, I think it made them unhappy, and it eventually disgusted much of the public so damaging the monarchy.
I'm not honestly sure how much they were really getting on better in the last few months.  I think that as Sarah Bradford said on a TV programme, later, Di pretended that she'd gotten over the Cam issue and that she was OK with Cam being a  part of C's life but she hadn't really...I think that Charles had moved on and was willing ot be amicable with Di, but they were far from close and I don't think he had really gotten over all his anger at her behaviour...

[amabel]

Since I've created them for Charles and Diana it would be unfair if she didn't have her own.

I think that during the War, bit she remained fairly discreet, and kept out of any talk with the papers. Of coruse she was pretty unpopular then because Di was so popular...

[TLLK]

From what I recall reading Diana was willing to say that Charles was a good father and that she'd come to realize it once the divorce was final. So at least from her side she was being more amicable toward him.

[amabel]

Did she? I don't recall that.  I think that she did put it out via Morton and her journalist friends that he was a bad father, that the children were of less importance to him than his work his private life etc with the impliciaiton that she was a much better mother than he was as a father.  Possibly she backtracked a bit, because I think she was smart enough to realise that too much continued Charles bashing by her side, might have the effect of making the public fed up with the issue and making them begin to feel that she was always harping on her wrongs and spiteful.  I cant' help feeling that she was more polite to Charles in the last few months because she was beginning to become aware that her public weren't quite as adoring as before and neither were the press.. so it looked better if she was more pleasant to C and did not bash him all the time. and perhaps she realised  that it was hurting the children as well

[sandy]

TLLK I agree that their war was very bad for the monarchy and for the 2 of them..both as people and as public figures. I think that both of them should have had the common sense to keep their marital problems private and just gone on towards getting a divorce..,. It hurt their sons, I think it made them unhappy, and it eventually disgusted much of the public so damaging the monarchy.
I'm not honestly sure how much they were really getting on better in the last few months.  I think that as Sarah Bradford said on a TV programme, later, Di pretended that she'd gotten over the Cam issue and that she was OK with Cam being a  part of C's life but she hadn't really...I think that Charles had moved on and was willing ot be amicable with Di, but they were far from close and I don't think he had really gotten over all his anger at her behaviour...

Angry at her behavior. Charles was not exactly Prince Charming to her particularly when he put her down in public. sarah Bradford never said Diana "pretended" to get over the Camilla issue.

In 1995 Diana said there were three of us in the marriage. I don't think she "got past" Camilla or forgot what Charles did.
Double post auto-merged: October 29, 2014, 11:24:41 PM

From what I recall reading Diana was willing to say that Charles was a good father and that she'd come to realize it once the divorce was final. So at least from her side she was being more amicable toward him.

There was mistrust on both sides. I doubt Diana appreciated Charles choosing Highgrove to have the highly publicized Camilla birthday party in 1997. They would always have had dealings with each other had Diana lived--they had the boys.
Double post auto-merged: October 29, 2014, 11:26:28 PM

Did she? I don't recall that.  I think that she did put it out via Morton and her journalist friends that he was a bad father, that the children were of less importance to him than his work his private life etc with the impliciaiton that she was a much better mother than he was as a father.  Possibly she backtracked a bit, because I think she was smart enough to realise that too much continued Charles bashing by her side, might have the effect of making the public fed up with the issue and making them begin to feel that she was always harping on her wrongs and spiteful.  I cant' help feeling that she was more polite to Charles in the last few months because she was beginning to become aware that her public weren't quite as adoring as before and neither were the press.. so it looked better if she was more pleasant to C and did not bash him all the time. and perhaps she realised  that it was hurting the children as well

Diana was still popular as I recall. I don't recall Charles being more popular. He got bad press.

Charles did more than his share bashing Diana--how did the boys like it when he said he felt forced to marry their mother and he wanted heirs. Calling out their mother as little more than an incubator.

[sandy]

Camilla went to the Sun Editor for 10 years. I would not call her Discreet.

I see her as a conniving sneak who deliberately undermined Diana.

[sandy]

Well it did not help Diana on the honeymoon to see the mistress's little trinkets on Charles cuffs. If Charles did not understand why she was upset then I would call him a clueless dolt. 

Charles never had to return to Camilla, she was always in Charles  life one way or another. Charles Admitted he preferred Camilla to Diana when he married Diana. Call that honest?

[Trudie]

Some would like to think Camilla was discreet to the general public to an extent she was. Behind the scenes there was nothing shy or discreet about Camilla. Camilla offering up tidbits to Stuart Higgins, Playing Mistress of the house in Diana's absence and using the Highgrove set for safe houses her ambition was known. How many mistresses have the audacity at a party to disappear with her lover leaving his wife with other guests. That alone spoke volumes about her lack of respect for moral decency at least Diana confronted her and her reply equally showed just how evil she is.

[sandy]

It has not worked for everybody to put it mildly. Some don't buy the "great love" spin or blaming it all on Charles parents and his late ex wife.

[Canuck]

"Evil", Trudie?  I agree Camilla behaved badly during that time, as did Charles, but I think a little perspective is helpful.  Camilla didn't murder anyone, or commit any crimes.  She engaged in an affair with a married man, and she did things that were hurtful to that man's wife.  I don't condone any of that, but I also don't think it's anywhere close to the worst things that some people do to others.

[sandy]

If she did not do anything really "bad" then how come Charles had to spend megabucks on a spin doctor to try to get her accepted. Saying there are "worse things" does still IMO whitewash what she did. She was in the marriage from the get go.

[Canuck]

If she did not do anything really "bad" then how come Charles had to spend megabucks on a spin doctor to try to get her accepted. Saying there are "worse things" does still IMO whitewash what she did. She was in the marriage from the get go.

Where did I say Camilla didn't do anything bad?  Really, please show me.  I have said over and over and over that she did bad things, that she hurt Diana, that she should not have done what she did. 

Do you really not think there are worse things than what Camilla did?  People who drive drunk or hit their children or commit murder?  It is now "whitewashing" to acknowledge that in the list of terrible things people can do, having an affair with a married man ranks somewhere below those crimes?

I'm not saying Camilla did nothing wrong.  I'm saying some PERSPECTIVE about the things Camilla did wrong would be helpful.   

[sandy]

As snokitty said there are many forms of evil.

We're not talking ab out people who drive drunk or hit their children.

The thread is about Camilla.

what about the same perspective for Diana offered in her threads instead of the nitpicking over whether or not she had an affair with Mannakee when the woman said she did not.

[amabel]

and Diana was bulimic, unprepared for life and immature

[amabel]

Where did I say Camilla didn't do anything bad?  Really, please show me.  I have said over and over and over that she did bad things, that she hurt Diana, that she should not have done what she did. 

Do you really not think there are worse things than what Camilla did?  People who drive drunk or hit their children or commit murder?  It is now "whitewashing" to acknowledge that in the list of terrible things people can do, having an affair with a married man ranks somewhere below those crimes?

well let me just say it again, I can't quite see anything that Cam did, that wasn't pretty much the same as what Di did. Neither of them are "evil".  But they were both stupid and selfish at times.  Diana also intruded on some other woman's marriage, tried to break it up, chased a married man who wanted to end their affair. She flirted with more than one married man, not caring if their wives didn't like it.  She publicised her broken marriage, in such a way that she hurt her children.  She tired to damage her husband's prospects of being King...

[TLLK]

Where did I say Camilla didn't do anything bad?  Really, please show me.  I have said over and over and over that she did bad things, that she hurt Diana, that she should not have done what she did. 

Do you really not think there are worse things than what Camilla did?  People who drive drunk or hit their children or commit murder?  It is now "whitewashing" to acknowledge that in the list of terrible things people can do, having an affair with a married man ranks somewhere below those crimes?

well let me just say it again, I can't quite see anything that Cam did, that wasn't pretty much the same as what Di did. Neither of them are "evil".  But they were both stupid and selfish at times.  Diana also intruded on some other woman's marriage, tried to break it up, chased a married man who wanted to end their affair. She flirted with more than one married man, not caring if their wives didn't like it.  She publicised her broken marriage, in such a way that she hurt her children.  She tired to damage her husband's prospects of being King...

:goodpost: There were many people who were only thinking of themselves during that time. :(

[amabel]

They were 3 people trapped in a messy situation.  I don't really blame anyone greatly for what They did, per se, but if Cam is going to get attacked all the time, when she did much the same as Diana, I can't see why....And Diana was the one who made the big fuss about her husband being "stolen by Cam" so why did she go and do the same to other women?
If Di had had an affair or 2, kept it quiet and let Charles and Cam get on with their love affair, and managed to keep up a civilised relationship with her husband, she'd probably still be alive today...

[Trudie]

Wrong amabel there was one trapped Diana. Camilla vetted and encouraged the match with Charles realizing just how naive Diana was and at the time divorce was not a viable option. Diana went into the marriage blindly believing Charles loved her and Camilla was a safe married friend who at one time he dated. What Camilla did was pure evil to do to anyone and undermining the marriage. No one knows for sure if Diana did have an affair with Oliver Hoare and she surely didn't do to Hoares wife what Camilla did pretending to befriend her before the marriage vetting her to keep her status as a mistress. Camilla played it smart publicly to an extent but the truth came out anyway and her behavior after Diana's death left no one in doubt as to her ambition just look to Emilie Van Cutsem and you can see why.

[cate1949]

I do think Camilla's behavior was despicable and without concern for a whole host of people including her and C and D's kids.  But then again the whole crew of them were incredibly careless people - as if behavior was not going to have consequences as if hurting other people did not matter.  Just amazing how blind they were to their folly and where it might end up.

The victims IMHO were the children - Camilla's kids and the two Princes.  The "bad guys" were the adults including APB  all of them  clearly never thought about anything other than their own desires.

[TLLK]

Agree with SophieChloe that is a wonderful post cate!

[Limabeany]

and Diana was bulimic, unprepared for life and immature

Charles was conniving, childish, arrogant, sef-absorbed, two timing bs artist who used a young woman as a breeding horse because his mistress was married.

[Limabeany]

One of hem was lured and trapped by Charles and Camilla.

[Limabeany]

If Di had had an affair or 2, kept it quiet and let Charles and Cam get on with their love affair, and managed to keep up a civilised relationship with her husband, she'd probably still be alive today...

Are you serious!? Wow!  :huh2: :nocomment:

[amabel]

He had to get married, he had to marry a virgin and he thoguth Di was suitable..  I could  say if I wanted to be hyper critical of Diana, that she pretended to like the things he liked and then abruptly gave up the pretense.. that she married into the RF, without any intention of learning how to behave and that she then had affairs herself but chose to make a fuss about Charles having an affair and by talking so publicly about her failed marriage almost destroyed the monarchy.  But I dotn think that was the entire truth. I think that both of them were foolish and fooled thtemslves into the marriage and when it failed, they both found other lovers.

[amabel]

Why do you say that?  She had an affair with Hewitt while married to Charles.  Did anyting bad happen to her?? If she had stayed within her marriage, she and Charles  would now be  a middle aged couple watching their son getting married.  I hardly think if she had stayed married to Charles, that she would have died in a car accident in Paris... an accident which happened largely because she had trusted herself to the messy security system of a foolish man like Dodi.