Diana's death, the funeral and the investigation into her death

[sara8150]

If Diana had worn a seatbelt she would have been at Harry's wedding says 9/11 pathologist | Daily Mail Online

[amabel]

if the seat belts malfunctioned, why not drive the car back tyo the Ritz Garage and stay the night, or get a car that did have working seatbelts?

[Curryong]

Wasn't checking that sort of thing Trevor, the security guy's, responsibility before they set off? And returning to the hotel would be the sensible thing to do! I've never seen any rhyme or reason really  in their comings and goings that night. Why not have a light supper at the Ritz and just relax for the night? It's not as if it was the first visit to Paris for either of them and so it was imperative that they see the city by night.

[amabel]

Wasn't checking that sort of thing Trevor, the security guy's, responsibility before they set off? And returning to the hotel would be the sensible thing to do! I've never seen any rhyme or reason really  in their comings and goings that night. Why not have a light supper at the Ritz and just relax for the night? It's not as if it was the first visit to Paris for either of them and so it was imperative that they see the city by night.

this story abt the seat belts malfunctioning crops up but it has not been proven.
Surely in all the Investigations into the crash, if there were faulty seat belts in the car, it would have been noted by the investigators.  It never ahas as far as I know..  So I don't believe there was anyting wrong with the seat belts.  it woud probably have increased Di's and Dodi's chance of survival, if they had belted up.

I think a lot of the messing around, was due to Dodis messy disorganised way of living.  He summoned Henri  Paul to come in whene he was off duty, and drive..and Henri had been drinking.  He also  didnt have the licence required to drive a heavy car..
The guards I think pointed out that it was usaul to have a back up car and Dodi didn't agree to that... He made life difficult for his staff and probably by the time they left the Ritz Di was tired out and just longing to get to D's flat and go to bed.  So she didn't bothter putting her belt on. 
Acording to MAF, Dodi had said that they had to go back to his apartment to get their clothes - as if the Fayeds did't have enough staff to send someone to Dodi's place and pack for htem...

[sandy]

It is in inquest reports. the car was stolen previously and deployed at the last minute.

And it was out of character for Diana NOT to buckle up. She did this all the time. It seems  odd and it refutes people attempting to blame her for her own death.

The bodyguard has amnesia and admittedly does not remember every detail. A good security guard would have had inspected the car and driver before taking off on that trip. It was like every man for himself if HE buckled up and did not make sure his charges had working seatbelts.

You make it sound she was negligent. I find it suspicious that she made a habit of buckling up no matter what.

Supposedly Dodi wanted to give Diana the ring that night.

It would have increased Diana's survival chances if the medical care in Paris was not so screwed up. It took her hours to get the needed help. But this is brushed aside.\ by some.

[dianab]

If Diana had worn a seatbelt she would have been at Harry's wedding says 9/11 pathologist | Daily Mail Online

he's saying no news. same without seat belt she arrived alive in hospital, the seat belt probably would have improved her situation... they are, in fact, known for save lives

[Mike]

There are so many "what ifs" here.  The one that has always stayed in my mind is the design of the de-Alma tunnel with the center divide made up of those exposed individual columns just waiting to be run into.  There's a similar long tunnel near where I live that runs under a wide freeway and the center divide isn't individual columns but a continuous wall.   If the de-Alma tunnel had been so designed, the Mercedes would simply have bounced off, back into the traffic lane instead of being impaled on the column.  The occupants would probably have been shaken up, but would have survived.

Then, hopefully, Diana would have realized Henri Paul was drunk, become irate with Dodi and told him to take a hike.  But, it didn't work that way.

[Curryong]

But if that car hadn't been travelling at the speed it was then the pillars and the tunnel design wouldn't have mattered because the car wouldn't have connected with them. It was the speed at which they were travelling that was ultimately the difference between life and death for the Mercedes' occupants.

[Mike]

I agree with your points, I'm just suggesting the design of the tunnel was yet another factor in the long series of events that resulted in three deaths.  Even if Paul had still been speeding, lost control in the tunnel and struck the center divider, the three would have most probably survived.  IMHO, of course.

[Curryong]

Yes, it was a combination of things that night that culminated in the crash. The occupants went in a car driven too fast by a drunken member of staff, safety procedures were ignored, the seatbelts might not have been working properly and they went through a badly designed tunnel. And after the accident Diana was driven quite slowly to the hospital, though we don't know whether she would have survived anyway.

Plus Dodi and Diana decided to go out that night, presumably to collect clothing of all things, instead of staying put and relaxing with a nice hotel supper and a glass of wine. If they had done that then she would have been back in London the next day and Dodi and Henri Paul would also have been alive and kicking. Sometimes fate just steps in I think.

[amabel]

Yes, it was a combination of things that night that culminated in the crash. The occupants went in a car driven too fast by a drunken member of staff, safety procedures were ignored, the seatbelts might not have been working properly and they went through a badly designed tunnel. And after the accident Diana was driven quite slowly to the hospital, though we don't know whether she would have survived anyway.

.

She was drven  slowly to hospital because she had heart attacks on the way.  had they not gone slowly and stopped to stabilise her, when she went into heart attack, she would have died in the ambulance.  And if the seat belts were really malfunctioning, Diana would surely have realised this as soon as she tried to belt up, which one tends to do, as soon as you settle into a car... and if so, (not that I believe it was the case) surely the sensible thing to do would have been to say "lets go back and get another car.. :  (  I cant believe thtat the Ritz didn't have more than 1 car available....)
and of course  if they had not had an over excited drunken driver who went too fast, they would probably not have crashed in the tunell...

Double post auto-merged: September 23, 2018, 12:40:05 PM

There are so many "what ifs" here.  The one that has always stayed in my mind is the design of the de-Alma tunnel with the center divide made up of those exposed individual columns just waiting to be run into.  There's a similar long tunnel near where I live that runs under a wide freeway and the center divide isn't individual columns but a continuous wall.   If the de-Alma tunnel had been so designed, the Mercedes would simply have bounced off, back into the traffic lane instead of being impaled on the column.  The occupants would probably have been shaken up, but would have survived.

T

IIRC ths came up a while ago, and someone with an engineering background said that a different design would have made no difrference to the force of the crash.  H Paul was going too fast and was not an experienced heavy car driver.. He was not supposed to enter that tunnel at speed.. and that's what caused the crash...

[amabel]

So now Trever Rees Jones is to blame? 
she had to be cut out of the car, which was a difficult and delicate task..
and she did, as far as I know have more than one cardiac arrest in the ambulance, which meant that they had to stop and stablise her.  She had a cardiac arrest when they had just cut her out, which meant that they had to give hr CPR...

[TLLK]

he's saying no news. same without seat belt she arrived alive in hospital, the seat belt probably would have improved her situation... they are, in fact, known for save lives

I have to agree @dianab-This is nothing new. The only survivor was the only person in the car who was wearing a restraint.

[sandy]

The seatbelts reportedly malfunctioned. It was out of character for Diana not to buckle up.

[TLLK]

^^^If that was the case then they could have chosen to use a different vehicle. However the obviously decided against to remain in that car and continued on their journey. We all know what happened to the three unrestrained passengers.

[amabel]

do you realy think that they didn't do their utmost to get her out of the car, as quickly and safely as possible/??

[dianab]

So now Trever Rees Jones is to blame? 
she had to be cut out of the car, which was a difficult and delicate task..
and she did, as far as I know have more than one cardiac arrest in the ambulance, which meant that they had to stop and stablise her.  She had a cardiac arrest when they had just cut her out, which meant that they had to give hr CPR...

she had 2 cardiac arrests before arrive to the hospital and they stopped the ambulance to stabilize her... it's thought she'd have died in the moment if they hadnt take care of the cardiac arrests. the seatbelts probably would have saved her, dodi and the driver

i also read the paparazzi made hard the work of paramedics

[TLLK]

do you realy think that they didn't do their utmost to get her out of the car, as quickly and safely as possible/??

That actually took time because the First Responders had to triage all of the victims and get their status. Then use the jaws of life to extract the deceased and survivors from the crumpled vehicle.  They knew soon that two were deceased and two were injured. Trevor Rees was considered to be in worse shape than Diana at the scene. Once she was able to be removed then the situation reversed and her BP dropped dramatically.

France like many other First World European nations does not practice "scoop and run" like is found in North America. Victims are treated by doctors, nurses and others at the scene. Diana had a mobile emergency room waiting for her. Due to her catastrophic injuries, she went into cardiac arrest twice. Even in Scoop and Run nations, this cannot be ignored and must be treated even if it means that the vehicle must stop so first responders can make an attempt to stabilize the patient. 

As for ambulances, not every space in a large urban area is safe for helicopters to land and take off. This accident occurred in an area that might not have been able to land close to the accident site. Therefore Diana would very likely have to have been transported by a ground vehicle to find a place large enough to land a helicopter. Her catastrophic injuries were already making it difficult to move her without another episode of cardiac arrest. :(

[TLLK]

But the first responders were the paps.

Typically first responders are considered to be emergency personnel ie: police, fire, paramedics etc..but if you consider photographers to be first  responders that's fine.  :)

Keep in mind that it took a long time to remove Diana because the first responders had to assess the condition of everyone and the state of the vehicle made it impossible to  safely and swiftly extract the driver and passengers. It's not uncommon in severe car crashes to require jaws of life and other equipment to be used since doors and windows would be inoperable.  :shrug: Since the occupants were not restrained, they were not all in their seats. Diana was on the floor which meant it took extra time to safely extract her.

We know that a high rate of speed, an impaired and inexperienced driver and unrestrained passengers led to the deaths of three people that night.  :(

[amabel]

I know all that. But the first responders were the paps. I read a minute by minute account and Diana was allowed to stay in that car for a long time--and every second counted.

Trevor had a face injury.

I do.

Sc
S
R

Since when are a bunch of greedy and money mad paparazzi, who didn't sop from taking photos when Diana was clearly badly injured "first responders??"  I simply cannot believe this.
Double post auto-merged: September 26, 2018, 04:33:57 AM

Typically first responders are considered to be emergency personnel ie: police, fire, paramedics etc..but if you consider photographers to be first  responders that's fine.  :)

Keep in mind that it took a long time to remove Diana because the first responders had to assess the condition of everyone and the state of the vehicle made it impossible to  safely and swiftly extract the driver and passengers. It's not uncommon in severe car crashes to require jaws of life and other equipment to be used since doors and windows would be inoperable.  :shrug: Since the occupants were not restrained, they were not all in their seats. Diana was on the floor which meant it took extra time to safely extract her.

We know that a high rate of speed, an impaired and inexperienced driver and unrestrained passengers led to the deaths of three people that night.  :(

That was why it took a long time to extricate Diana, her arm was dislocated and she was sandwiched within the vehicle.  She could not be qucikly dragged out.. and if she had gone by helicopter, assuming ti was possible to get one in time, its possble that the travel and movemetn woudl have pushed her agian into cardiac arrest.  When tehy had cut her free, she had a heart attack on the spot, which meant they had to giv her CPR for some time or she woudl have died right then.  They drove slowly because she was in danger of heart attack again.  During the ride, her blood pressure went very low, forcing them to give her dopamine to stablise her.   

[Curryong]

This has been an informative discussion for me, as this has been an area of Diana's life (or death) that I've kept away from really (and I don't like conspiracy theories about things, normally.)

However, over the last week or so I've been discussing aspects of the crash in the tunnel with a friend, who does believe there are some unanswered questions about the seatbelts, the car and the driver. So, in the interest of further discussion (hopefully) I'm going to put an opposing point of view to my own here. As Devil's Advocate.

'Regarding the seatbelts  its not up there with Mercedes Benz admitting it, but there are some things on the issue of the belt.

A lawyer close to the case is quoted in Britain?s Daily Express newspaper as saying: ?The safety belt issue is crucial.?We?ve all been in the back of a car and found a faulty buckle, but the fact that both Diana and Dodi?s belts appeared not to be working is extremely sinister."

Death of Diana, Princess of Wales - Wikipedia,_Princess_of_Wales_conspiracy_theories#Seat_belt

Analysis of the wreckage of the car after its repatriation to England in 2005 by a Forensic Accident Investigator from the Transport Research Laboratory of thirty-five years experience on behalf of Operation Paget found that all the seat belts were in good working order except for the right rear one which was attached to the seat Diana occupied. ....True the French later claimed they were all working, but thats a bit convenient for them.

As for Henri Paul's blood, there are many issues with the testing and pathology on that, one has to take it with a grain of salt, there is no way he could be conscious with the amount of carbon monoxide in that sample, it was perhaps more likely his blood was the blood of a monoxide suicide or accidental death. If he was the alcoholic that they claim, his flight physical 72 hrs before the crash would have picked it up. Also the CCTV shows nothing to suggest impairment.

I don't know if Dodi would have objected to the belts being used, nor do I think Trevor was keen to have Diana put hers on, but he was certainly quick to try and save his own skin and get his on. Either he was in on it(unlikely, though perhaps after the fact), a bad bodyguard, or the belt didnt work.'

Those are a few observations of my friend on the smash in the tunnel. Thoughts, anyone?

[sandy]

Even if they wanted to I doubt Will and Harry would want to "make waves" about this. I think Harry's comment though was very telling. Several weird things happened in that tunnel.

It was also suspicious that Henri Paul who was supposedly "drunk" could deftly tie his shoes without collapsing to the ground. And how come Rees Jones did not smell alcohol. Rees Jones memory is lacking because of amnesia. No ethical guard would let someone who reeks of alchohol drive a car.
Double post auto-merged: September 26, 2018, 05:19:37 PM

This has been an informative discussion for me, as this has been an area of Diana's life (or death) that I've kept away from really (and I don't like conspiracy theories about things, normally.)

However, over the last week or so I've been discussing aspects of the crash in the tunnel with a friend, who does believe there are some unanswered questions about the seatbelts, the car and the driver. So, in the interest of further discussion (hopefully) I'm going to put an opposing point of view to my own here. As Devil's Advocate.

'Regarding the seatbelts  its not up there with Mercedes Benz admitting it, but there are some things on the issue of the belt.

A lawyer close to the case is quoted in Britain?s Daily Express newspaper as saying: ?The safety belt issue is crucial.?We?ve all been in the back of a car and found a faulty buckle, but the fact that both Diana and Dodi?s belts appeared not to be working is extremely sinister."

Death of Diana, Princess of Wales - Wikipedia,_Princess_of_Wales_conspiracy_theories#Seat_belt

Analysis of the wreckage of the car after its repatriation to England in 2005 by a Forensic Accident Investigator from the Transport Research Laboratory of thirty-five years experience on behalf of Operation Paget found that all the seat belts were in good working order except for the right rear one which was attached to the seat Diana occupied. ....True the French later claimed they were all working, but thats a bit convenient for them.

As for Henri Paul's blood, there are many issues with the testing and pathology on that, one has to take it with a grain of salt, there is no way he could be conscious with the amount of carbon monoxide in that sample, it was perhaps more likely his blood was the blood of a monoxide suicide or accidental death. If he was the alcoholic that they claim, his flight physical 72 hrs before the crash would have picked it up. Also the CCTV shows nothing to suggest impairment.

I don't know if Dodi would have objected to the belts being used, nor do I think Trevor was keen to have Diana put hers on, but he was certainly quick to try and save his own skin and get his on. Either he was in on it(unlikely, though perhaps after the fact), a bad bodyguard, or the belt didnt work.'

Those are a few observations of my friend on the smash in the tunnel. Thoughts, anyone?

I agree with you. The bodyguard appeared to be inept to me. But as I said he lost his memory. Some writers say he would be in danger if he ever got his memory back.

Diana always buckled up and her relatives commented on that.

Very odd events indeed.
Double post auto-merged: September 26, 2018, 05:21:11 PM

Since when are a bunch of greedy and money mad paparazzi, who didn't sop from taking photos when Diana was clearly badly injured "first responders??"  I simply cannot believe this.
Double post auto-merged: September 26, 2018, 04:33:57 AM
That was why it took a long time to extricate Diana, her arm was dislocated and she was sandwiched within the vehicle.  She could not be qucikly dragged out.. and if she had gone by helicopter, assuming ti was possible to get one in time, its possble that the travel and movemetn woudl have pushed her agian into cardiac arrest.  When tehy had cut her free, she had a heart attack on the spot, which meant they had to giv her CPR for some time or she woudl have died right then.  They drove slowly because she was in danger of heart attack again.  During the ride, her blood pressure went very low, forcing them to give her dopamine to stablise her.   

She certainly would  have had a better chance as Dr. Barnard pointed out. She died with the inept procedure. Nobody has any clue if she would have had survived if she had gotten there sooner.

Reagan had internal injuries more severe than was thought he was rushed to the hospital speeding. he would have died if he had been taken through the streets in a slow ambulance.

[amabel]

And the Telegraph article shared that a palace spokesperson revealed  Prince Harry's comments should not be taken that he believed in any conspiracy theories and that is natural that as the children of the late PssoW, that they'd have times when they'd "wonder" what had occurred. Having lost a sibling in a car crash with very similar circumstances to the one that killed Diana (high speed and an unrestrained passenger) I too have wondered about his final moments and the crash. It is natural for the surviving family to do so. However the crash in the Pont D' Alma tunnel certainly had elements of too many road accidents and circumstances  that all drivers are warned against to prevent catastrophic and potentially fatal accidents: 1. Follow posted speed limits-Henri Paul did not do so. 2. Do not drink and drive-Henri Paul was impaired by alcohol. 3. Driver and passenger should be restrained by an approved safety restraint-Driver and passengers were not restrained. As to the paparazzi who were chasing them, that is not a typical road accident element but the inquest certainly acknowledged that it played a role.

Harry: I'll never stop wondering about crash - Telegraph

Of course he will wonder about it, it was his mother and he loved her and he will never have full knowledge of what she experienced...

but if people want to believe that for some unknown reason, some people, also unknown wanted to kill Diana, they will believe it.. I don't think there's much point in trying to convince them otherwise. 

[TLLK]

but if people want to believe that for some unknown reason, some people, also unknown wanted to kill Diana, they will believe it.. I don't think there's much point in trying to convince them otherwise. 

Yes  @amabel conspiracy theorists will choose to believe whatever they wish to believe about 9/11, The Kennedy assassination, etc..

The accident that killed three that night and injured Trevor Rees Jones had all the hallmarks of too many road accidents: excessive speed, an impaired driver and unrestrained passengers/driver. This is why countries around the world created laws to control speed and ensure safe drivers and passengers. Even with the laws in place, there are still those who speed, are impaired (alcohol, drugs, medication, sleep deprivation) and those who are unrestrained in a vehicle and too often these accidents are fatal. :no:
Double post auto-merged: September 26, 2018, 06:23:06 PM

She certainly would  have had a better chance as Dr. Barnard pointed out. She died with the inept procedure. Nobody has any clue if she would have had survived if she had gotten there sooner.

She went into cardiac arrest at least twice while enroute to the hospital. It would have been highly unethical and inept to not stop and treat the situation when it occurred.  Had they ignored it, then this would have been a clear case of malpractice by the ambulance doctor, nurses and other members of the team. The medical team at the scene, in the ambulance and in the hospital did everything according to the established protocol  to try and save her from her catastrophic injuries, but when faced with an unrestrained passenger who has been involved in a crash like the one in the tunnel, her chances of survival were not high.  :no:

[amabel]

@TLLK, I meant to add that I was sorry to hear of your loss.. you never get over a loss like that, as I know myself.. and of course any one who has lost someone like that, will always have questions and wonder about things.
I think that it is so unfair to lay blame on Rhys Jones.. Dodi was the one who wanted the "plan" of using HEnri Paul who was not a qualified heavy car driver, who had been off duty and had had a few drinks and was taking Prozac..   Dodi was always messing round with plans, not telling his bodyguards what he was doing.. and with only 2 of them, it was hard for them to combat an aggressive bunch like the Paparrazzi?
But people who want to believe this sort of thing will believe it...