Princes William and Harry to learn 'truth’ of Diana murder claims

[georgiana996]

The Ambulance staff are heroes because she reached the Hospital alive  :shrug: ... other than that ... I wonder who is gonna be blamed for her death next Obama?

:crazylaugh: :laugh10: :crazylaugh:  .....they just might  :o

[sandy]

What they didn't do is rush to the hospital and since the French ambulance service isn't revolutionizing the world with this new modality, it is safe to say, it was not a recommendable decision...

How do you rush someone to hopstial when they are In cardiac arrest and need immediate treatemetn or they will die in the ambulance?

Patients with cardiac arrest are rushed to hospitals.  I see sirens going and ambulances speeding to the hospital. I don't see ambulances going as slow as snails to get the patient to the hospital.
Double post auto-merged: May 14, 2014, 02:23:20 PM

The Ambulance staff are heroes because she reached the Hospital alive  :shrug: ... other than that ... I wonder who is gonna be blamed for her death next Obama?

:crazylaugh: :laugh10: :crazylaugh:  .....they just might  :o

Oh come on Georgiana.  Nobody blamed the ambulance workers. And Diana's death is not something funny to joke about. I don't get the amusement over Eri's post, which accuses people of something they did not do.

I can't imagine defending the system in France and praising Eri's comments about "blame." If people don't want to believe that the slow ambulance didn't hurt Diana it's their choice but joking about it is out of line. 

[Macrobug]

Sandy.  Not once did I say that people could not post.  I said that the injuries could not be compared.  Please don't pick fights with me.  If you have an issue, take it to the mods.  As I will.

[sandy]

They can be compared. And some out in the media have done so. My point is that people can compare them and they have.  A serious injury is a serious injury. And I think Reagan would have passed on in 1981 had he been in a slow ambulance. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[cinrit]

Ronald Reagan was shot in the underarm as he was waving to the waiting crowd outside a building after a speech.  The bullet entered his lung and lodged about an inch from his heart.  Though he was closer to death than originally thought at the moment, his wounds were not like Diana's in any way. 

Cindy

Cindy that does not matter. The point is putting Reagan in a very slow ambulance was not an option for obvious reasons. It was not "OK" to put Diana in a slow ambulance despite all the defense of it.

I was responding to the cate1949's post that she'd read the injuries were the same, that's all ... I said nothing about ambulances.  And yes, the two injuries can be compared as both being serious, but as Macrobug and I both pointed out, they were not the same injuries.

I am not getting this slow ambulance getting such ardent defense. Think about it. Would you want  one of your near and dear ones creeping along in a slow ambulance to get help. I think not.  I know I wouldn't. 

No one is defending slow ambulances.  Who knows, except for having to stop when there was danger of Diana going into cardiac arrest, the ambulance could very well have been speeding.

Cindy

[georgiana996]

The Ambulance staff are heroes because she reached the Hospital alive  :shrug: ... other than that ... I wonder who is gonna be blamed for her death next Obama?

:crazylaugh: :laugh10: :crazylaugh:  .....they just might  :o

Oh come on Georgiana.  Nobody blamed the ambulance workers. And Diana's death is not something funny to joke about. I don't get the amusement over Eri's post, which accuses people of something they did not do.

I can't imagine defending the system in France and praising Eri's comments about "blame." If people don't want to believe that the slow ambulance didn't hurt Diana it's their choice but joking about it is out of line.

Wait a minute thats not what I meant , death is never funny , Eris post was so thats what I laughed at , I didnt praise her.

[sandy]

OK. But again, nobody panned the ambulance workers who were doing their jobs and did not run the shoddy system in France.  And to  me it's not a "conspiracy" theory to blame the slow ambulance.  And nobody knows what would have happened had Diana been transported in timely fashion to the hospital so I don't see how a blanket statement can be made by some that she would have died anyway.

[Eri]

^ They operated an hour or so (thanks to the Ambulance) so that tells us her situation was desperate and her death has nothing to do with the Ambulance ...

[sandy]

If you don't want to blame the slow ambulance and ignore the elephant in the room that's your choice. But the sooner she got there the more chance she had. The doctors had to open her chest and massage her heart something not possible in the dinky ambulance.

Eri you are not a doctor nor were there so you cannot state as fact that it had nothing to do with the Ambulance. Some doctors publicly said it did.

[cinrit]

Well, to be fair, none of us were there.  Thankfully, they didn't have to do open-chest heart massage in the ambulance because she didn't go into cardiac arrest there.  Her blood pressure dropped dramatically, and it was due to the ambulance stopping to allow the doctor to stabilize her that she didn't.  They got her to the hospital in time for the massage, and that's what's important.  What's sad is that, despite the efforts, she didn't make it.

Cindy

[Eri]

^^ It goes both ways ... you can't blame the Ambulance ... I have heard a lot of people who can't get over the fact she was in a speeding car , with a drunken driver with no seat belt blame the Ambulance ignoring they saved her life several times that night and they took her to the Hospital to be operated alive !!!

[sandy]

What was an important factor in her demise is that they did not get her to the hospital in time for the massage.

And yes to be fair none of us were so it can't be stated as "fact" she would have died anyway if she were in a faster ambulance or airlifted.

Cindy if they had gotten her to the hospital "in time" for the massage she would be alive today.

She was not gotten there in time. Period.

Eri, why keep harping on something none of us on this thread did: Blame the ambulance drivers and attendants. They were doing their jobs and did not run the shoddy system with the slow ambulance.

Driving her to the ambulance in that slow slow way  did not mean she got there in time. Obviously she was not "saved" since she died. For all you know the ambulance attendants stabilizing her were upset at the time it took her to get there. Who knows?

Her life IMO was lost due to a speeding car and an ambulance going at a snail's pace.  And a combination of various factors. But I think the slow ambulance was a decisive factor in her death.

[amabel]

I read that Diana had exactly the same injury Pres Reagan had - Reagan was immediately rushed to a hospital and survived - a much older person than Diana.  The doctor who wrote this article around the time of her death was appalled that 1) the ambulance took so long and 2) there are questions about the medication they gave her to elevate her BP in the ambulance - apparently this med also would have caused more bleeding

The reason so many controversies still exist is because IMHO the report never really satisfactorily addressed the issues. 

wel no he certainly didn't have the same injuries.

[sandy]

He had severe injuries. Arguably he could have died if he were placed in a slow ambulance. I think he would have.

[cinrit]

What was an important factor in her demise is that they did not get her to the hospital in time for the massage.

I'm confused.  They did do open chest cardiac massage on Diana in the hospital.  If they didn't do it in the hospital, where did they do it?  You, yourself, say that they didn't do it in the ambulance.

The doctors had to open her chest and massage her heart something not possible in the dinky ambulance.

Cindy

[sandy]

It was too late to save Diana in the hospital. Had they gotten her there earlier I think she would have had a better chance of survival. Are you missing the point Cindy  or are we getting into semantics again? Put away the word games.

Obviously the ambulance did not have all the equipment and staff the hospital had. So obviously she didn't get the treatment she needed in a timely fashion. 

[amabel]

No critically injured patient has much a chance, Diana or not, if ambulances take their time getting to hospitals, it was supposed to be an ambulance not a rickshaw..

well I'll just say it one more time.  How are they to speed when Diana's heart was stopping and they needed to stabilise her?  If they had just sped along, her heart would have given up and she'd have died I the ambulance.

[cinrit]

Sandy, I am responding to what you say literally, word-for-word, which is what we do on forums.  That is not "word games".

Cindy

[sandy]

Since none of us were there and none of us are doctors there is nothing definitive. All I know is doctors did criticize the long length of time it took her to get to the hospital. If some want to dismiss this so be it.
Double post auto-merged: May 14, 2014, 04:15:42 PM

Sandy, I am responding to what you say literally, word-for-word, which is what we do on forums.  That is not "word games".

Cindy

Cindy I think what I said was obvious enough. And yes you do get into word games for very obvious things (like the one recently on another thread about William).  Why not review the thread if you are confused instead of getting into the word games which are getting tiresome.

[TLLK]

He had severe injuries. Arguably he could have died if he were placed in a slow ambulance. I think he would have.

Reagan arrived at the hospital via the presidential limo and walked into the ER. It was only then that he began to collapse. He was still conscious on the operating table prior to being anesthetized. It was then that they discovered the extent of his injuries. 

[TLLK]

No critically injured patient has much a chance, Diana or not, if ambulances take their time getting to hospitals, it was supposed to be an ambulance not a rickshaw..

well I'll just say it one more time.  How are they to speed when Diana's heart was stopping and they needed to stabilise her?  If they had just sped along, her heart would have given up and she'd have died I the ambulance.

Agreed the logical decision was to aid the patient immediately as the necessary equipment  and personnel were there inside the mobile trauma unit. The trauma units came to the accident site to aid the surviving victims. The doctor on board of Diana's mobile unit made the decision to stop the ambulance and stabilize Diana.  Once she was stabilized, the ambulance could proceed to the hospital. Then the surgeons could begin their work on a patient that was not in cardiac arrest.

[TLLK]

^^ It goes both ways ... you can't blame the Ambulance ... I have heard a lot of people who can't get over the fact she was in a speeding car , with a drunken driver with no seat belt blame the Ambulance ignoring they saved her life several times that night and they took her to the Hospital to be operated alive !!!

I agreee Eri. The inebriated driver who was driving at twice the legal limit in the tunnel crashed into a concrete support. The passengers were unrestrained. The laws of physics took over and the result was two people killed instantly. One died later from massive chest trauma injuries and the  survivor needed months of rehabilitation.

I believe that the first responders, mobile trauma unit and hospital staff did their best to provide aid to the survivors of the crash. Unfortunately one of the victims who was removed from the wreckage did not survive.

[TLLK]

I read that Diana had exactly the same injury Pres Reagan had - Reagan was immediately rushed to a hospital and survived - a much older person than Diana.  The doctor who wrote this article around the time of her death was appalled that 1) the ambulance took so long and 2) there are questions about the medication they gave her to elevate her BP in the ambulance - apparently this med also would have caused more bleeding

The reason so many controversies still exist is because IMHO the report never really satisfactorily addressed the issues.

Reagan had a bullet track wound that was very serious but in no way was it the same as the injuries Diana received.  Diana had deceleration injuries that rearranged her complete pulmonary/cardiac system.  Her pulmonary vein tore.   The two can not be compared.

Macrobug could you explain what "deceleration injuries" mean to me? Is that another term for blood loss?

[Macrobug]

Decleration injuries are what happens in an accident when there is a transfer of energy.  The person is going the same speed as the car.  When the accident happens  the person "decelerates" (slows down) just like the car does.  If unrestrained then the person is violently thrown arooud and injuries happen.  Also (and this is what is important about Diana's injuries from what I have read) the internal organs also get thrown around ie the heart and lungs move around in the chest cavity.  And when that happens there is the possibility of tears and ruptures of the arteries and veins.  A big tear and the person usually dies very quickly.  A small tear can compromise the functioning of the heart and lungs, both from a build up of the leaking blood around the heart that interfers with the movement/action of the heart and from a lack of oxygen (the vein that tore with Diana is the one that brings oxygenated blood back from the lungs for the heart to pump to the rest of the body). Unfortuately,  further movement of the person and the little tear can become a big tear and the person dies of blood loss. 

Along with the tears other injury can happen with deceleration injuries.

deceleration injury - definition of deceleration injury in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

[TLLK]

Thank you Macrobug for the explanation in terms that I can actually understand :nod: :thumbsup:

Knowing that this type of trauma can worsen when an accident victim is being moved surely accounts for the  time and care that the firefighters needed when extracting Diana from the vehicle.