QEII in her 90's how should her family be assisting her?

amabel · August 01, 2019, 05:59:31 AM

Quote from: sandy on July 31, 2019, 08:51:46 PM
I think that the public would want the formal Coronation. They don't happen every day and the last one was 1953. From what I read, people in 1953 were glued to the TV watching and in the US there were exhibits in department store windows commemorating the coronation. I do think William will have the traditional one.

yeah that was a long long time ago. Charles will probably want a formal coronation but it wont be quite the same as the queen's..and William, I'd say he wotn have one..

Double post auto-merged: August 01, 2019, 06:16:01 AM

Quote from: TLLK on July 31, 2019, 07:27:00 PM
@amabel-I agree. The government and the public might be in favor of a simple investiture rather than a coronation. AFAIK only the UK is the only constitutional monarchy in Europe that still has an actual coronation. William could still swear the same oaths but the CoE might have a reduced role. IMVHO might be a good compromise and be seen as a modernization. I'm not sure if we'd even see Charles' coronation be as bejeweled and extravagant in appearance as George VI's and QEII's. Traditions might need to be streamlined with an upcoming ceremony. There will be questions regarding the costs especially since security will be very expensive safeguarding those in WA and the public on the street.

Anyhow getting back to the main topic, thank you to all who have been participating in this discussion. :happy:

yes I think Charles will still get a coronation but ti will not be as grand as th queens but I think by WIll's time it will not be a coronation..

sandy · August 01, 2019, 10:49:28 AM

I think William can't dictate the terms and not have the traditional Coronation. From what I read about what Charles wants, he does want the traditional coronation and was talking about being Defender of the Faiths.

amabel · August 01, 2019, 11:29:03 AM

Quote from: sandy on August 01, 2019, 10:49:28 AM
I think William can't dictate the terms and not have the traditional Coronation. From what I read about what Charles wants, he does want the traditional coronation and was talking about being Defender of the Faiths.

Sandy, the odds are that by tihe time Will is king, the public will be pushing for a simpler and cheaper alternative to a coronation. Even if Will does want it..it is vry possible that the public mood wil be against it..

TLLK · August 01, 2019, 02:55:42 PM

QuoteI think William can't dictate the terms and not have the traditional Coronation.

No William can't but the British government can certainly "dictate the terms" by announcing that they won't be in favor of a full scale coronation especially if a simple enthronement ceremony similar to the ones on the Continent is a far less expensive event. IMO William would be in favor of an enthronement ceremony.
IMHO by the time Charles ascends to the throne, I believe that the event will be streamlined in an effort to reign in costs. While Charles might have an actual coronation I doubt it will be as grand and I agree with @Curryong that there might be a mult-faith representation. I do believe we'll see the British government, the Commonwealth representatives, the foreign heirs-to-the-throne etc... IMO we won't see the BRF and the Peers of the Realm dressed as they were for QEII's coronation in coronets. This will likely be treated as a daytime event with dresscode being similar to what would be seen at a royal wedding. I could see Charles' sons in full uniform with their wives in daytime wear.
I believe that coaches would be limited to monarch/consort, the new Prince/Princess of Wales aka Cambridges and the Sussexes. Everyone else would arrive by car or luxury motor coach.

amabel · August 01, 2019, 03:49:03 PM

Quote from: TLLK on August 01, 2019, 02:55:42 PM
No William can't but the British government can certainly "dictate the terms" by announcing that they won't be in favor of a full scale coronation especially if a simple enthronement ceremony similar to the ones on the Continent is a far less expensive event. IMO William would be in favor of an enthronement ceremony.
IMHO by the time Charles ascends to the throne, I believe that the event will be streamlined in an effort to reign in costs. While Charles might have an actual coronation I doubt it will be as grand and I agree with @Curryong that there might be a mult-faith representation. I do believe we'll see the British government, the Commonwealth representatives, the foreign heirs-to-the-throne etc... IMO we won't see the BRF and the Peers of the Realm dressed as they were for QEII's coronation in coronets. This will likely be treated as a daytime event with dresscode being similar to what would be s

I certainly doubt that William would be saying he did not want a coronation and the Govt saying he must have one. I think that by the time he's King.. the public mood will be such that simplicity and less pageantry will be the order of the day.. And I think Wiliam will be in synch with that. Charles. well I think he will want a certan amount of pageantry and at present, the govt and public will problaby not be against the idea of a coronation albeit a simple one and nothng like the grander occasion that happened iwht the queen. but in another 20 odd years down the line..no Im pretty sure that the public will be like "Other monarchies just had a simple installation ceremony and that's fine for us..."

Princess Cassandra · August 01, 2019, 03:52:00 PM

There were some things about her coronation that the Queen found uncomfortable, though I don't exactly know what they were (the coach is not a comfortable ride, I know) and she has no doubt shared these with Charles so that he can use them to advantage. It is a very religious event, and Charles will honor that. It is a complete change of life, and the church and the crown are interconnected. The Queen is very religious and hopefully he is, too. I agree it will not be as grand as the Queen's. I think Prince Philip will also have brought up the topic of modernizing and scaling down during the 60+ years that have elapsed. He was supposed to be on the Queen's Coronation Committee, but the old guard kept freezing his ideas out. He wanted a more modern coronation and they and Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) wanted it to be as much like George VI's as possible. No doubt he has given his advice. Charles, IMO, has some modern ideas about things but also honors tradition. They are usually at least a year later to allow for mourning and planning and I wonder if that will continue. I know others won't agree with me, but I think he has ambivalent feelings about his change of role (though he knows, of course, that he has no choice), in addition to not wanting to see his mother leave this earth. As far as William is concerned, it may be that by the time his turn comes around he will have seen how much good can be accomplished by royal work and will want it all to carry on as more of a mission. What his coronation will be like I have no idea at all.

amabel · August 01, 2019, 04:50:58 PM

I hardly think that Charles would be put off by an uncomfortable coach ride. He is religious and has a "high" idea of the monarchy and ceremony.. so I tink he will want a coronation.. and tehre will be enough tradtitionalists around when he becomes King to go along with the idea of a coronation, rather than some kind of simple ceremony. But all the same, cost and security and "change of public mood" issues will be enough to make it a lot simpler than the queen's in the 1950s.
But William was borin in the 1980s.. and to a young and modern minded mother and has had a very different upbrining and has a different more modern minded character than his father. So I think that by the time he becomes King.. he will accept his role and do the best with it.. but I don't think he will ever quite see it as a sacred trust to the extent that his Grandmother did.. He might abdicate when he gets to a certain age.. like most European ROyals do now.. He would probaby be happy with an installation ceremony rather than a coronation and in all that he will be in touh with the public mood as it wil be, by then...

Blue Clover · August 06, 2019, 01:03:31 AM

It will be interesting to see what the decide to do when the Crown is passed onto Prince Charles.

amabel · August 25, 2019, 12:03:31 PM

Quote from: Blue Clover on August 06, 2019, 01:03:31 AM
It will be interesting to see what the decide to do when the Crown is passed onto Prince Charles.

I wonder if the siblings will go on working... Probably Edward and Anne..but not tehir children and not Andrew?

Princess Cassandra · August 26, 2019, 12:32:32 AM

Here is my take: Princess Anne will continue, and Prince Edward will take on the Duke of E's work and title. The one that is up in the air is Andrew - what exactly is it that he does now? His future is now questionable, too, because of the Epstein situation. And we don't yet know how that will shake down.

But getting back to the initial purpose of the thread, here we are discussing what the members of the RF can do to help the Queen in her elder years, and what they should NOT be doing is getting into trouble with the press and with the law. All current issues were avoidable, in my opinion. Andrew is really in deep trouble and should seek legal and PR advice and follow it, looking deeply into his past and taking ownership of his behavior instead of avoiding it. The press and trolls are out there now just looking for things the Sussex's do that can be brought in to the big story. They seem to be the media's dream come true, so they need to be more careful about what they do and how they go about it. Zara and all the Royal Family members should conduct themselves in a way that will keep them out of PR disasters. This would help the Queen instead of causing her stress and spoiling her holidays.

amabel · August 26, 2019, 08:29:54 AM

Very sensible. Andrew who is unfortunately the queen's favourite.. has proved a disaster... now in her old age. Minor faults however will be used by the press to add ot the "here's a scandal" situation. so yes the younger royals should be watching their step and doing their job well.. But H and Meghan seem to have a knack of causing a fuss every time they step out in public.. so that's not good.. though it pales beside the awfulness of Andrew.

TLLK · August 26, 2019, 12:39:06 PM

QuoteHere is my take: Princess Anne will continue, and Prince Edward will take on the Duke of E's work and title. The one that is up in the air is Andrew - what exactly is it that he does now? His future is now questionable, too, because of the Epstein situation. And we don't yet know how that will shake down.

But getting back to the initial purpose of the thread, here we are discussing what the members of the RF can do to help the Queen in her elder years, and what they should NOT be doing is getting into trouble with the press and with the law. All current issues were avoidable, in my opinion. Andrew is really in deep trouble and should seek legal and PR advice and follow it, looking deeply into his past and taking ownership of his behavior instead of avoiding it. The press and trolls are out there now just looking for things the Sussex's do that can be brought in to the big story. They seem to be the media's dream come true, so they need to be more careful about what they do and how they go about it. Zara and all the Royal Family members should conduct themselves in a way that will keep them out of PR disasters. This would help the Queen instead of causing her stress and spoiling her holidays.

:goodpost:

wannable · August 26, 2019, 12:45:48 PM

The Queen partially spoiled her own holiday with the church drive with Prince Andrew. All RRs said the comment section of their usual Balmoral Sunday Church with him generated 100% negative comments, not only towards him, but the Queen's judgement...

amabel · August 26, 2019, 12:58:55 PM

Quote from: wannable on August 26, 2019, 12:45:48 PM
The Queen partially spoiled her own holiday with the church drive with Prince Andrew. All RRs said the comment section of their usual Balmoral Sunday Church with him generated 100% negative comments, not only towards him, but the Queen's judgement...

It wasn't a good idea, certainly. It really does make one feel that the queen is STILL ridiculously indulgent towards her "favourite son". and that does not look good at all.. and she really should realise that.

Princess Cassandra · August 26, 2019, 03:27:53 PM

Quote from: amabel on August 26, 2019, 12:58:55 PM
It wasn't a good idea, certainly. It really does make one feel that the queen is STILL ridiculously indulgent towards her "favourite son". and that does not look good at all.. and she really should realise that.

I'm not sure they fully realize the trouble he is in, as I have posted before. But if HE hadn't used such bad judgment, she wouldn't be in the position of causing a problem by just enjoying being with her son.

TLLK · August 26, 2019, 05:06:28 PM

Strangely this reminds me of Spain's Infanta Christina and her husband Inaki Undgarian's NOOS scandal and Queen Sofia's struggle to support her daughter/son-in-law and son Felipe and daughter-in-law Letizia. While Andrew's alleged involvement with underage girls is worse IMHO, there are some parallels IMO.

Princess Cassandra · August 27, 2019, 04:22:39 AM

Quote from: TLLK on August 26, 2019, 05:06:28 PM
Strangely this reminds me of Spain's Infanta Christina and her husband Inaki Undgarian's NOOS scandal and Queen Sofia's struggle to support her daughter/son-in-law and son Felipe and daughter-in-law Letizia. While Andrew's alleged involvement with underage girls is worse IMHO, there are some parallels IMO.

And that did not have a happy ending.