Prince and Princess of Wales future roles

[Curryong]

A thread to discuss the future roles of the Prince and Princess of Wales :windsor1: :Jen:


Prince William receives confidential cabinet papers - BBC News

The Duke of Cambridge occasionally receives copies of confidential cabinet documents, the BBC has learned.

A Cabinet Office spokesman said that, as a future heir to the throne it was "appropriate that he is regularly briefed on government business".

It was revealed on Tuesday that Prince Charles receives such material routinely - as does the Queen.

Campaign group Republic said there was "no good reason" why Prince William receives such information.

BBC royal correspondent Peter Hunt said Prince William receives documents to help him understand Whitehall procedure and to prepare him for becoming king.

This week Republic received four chapters of the Cabinet Office's "precedent book", after a three-year freedom of information battle.

The book shows Prince Charles, the Queen, ministers and a handful of others get papers from cabinet and ministerial committees.

Of Prince William, the group's chief executive Graham Smith said: "There is no mention of this access in the documents released this week. It appears to be a free for all.

"We support Labour's call for an inquiry, so we can know how much information is being handed to which royals."

^ If there is a constitutional monarchy then it is appropriate in my view that the monarch and his/her deputy see the papers in the red boxes. I'm surprised that William also sees them. However, that's just being prudent, I suppose, when the Head of State is almost ninety and her heir is in his late sixties.

What I object to and always have, (as most of you know), is an heir who decides to be a very active lobbyist and uses privileged information to press his case.

I don't care if Charles's causes are just or need to be brought to ministers' attention. I'm not worried about his heart being in the right place, dah de dah. He should be like his mother, IMO, and pick his line in the sand, and otherwise keep quiet.

As for pressing his rights over the Duchy to government ministers when there are proposed changes, I am extremely uncomfortable over that as well.

[Curryong]

Totally normal especially since Liz is 90 and Chuck well into his 60's ... it would be weird if he didn't ...

^ I agree with you there Eri. I think it's excellent that William's getting some documents (and only some) . The Queen's nearly ninety and when Charles becomes King William as POW will be getting quite a few more papers from the red boxes. So he might as well start now.

[wannable]

The articles do not sound like he might as well start now, but it doesn't say since when he has had access to the red box.

A fact of William's kingship studies though via authorized by QEII - Robert Hardman's book, Our Queen, says he is "professionally" studying and following since age 10.

By 2011 the book said 2 decades, he is 33, age 10.

[wannable]

Well if he is reading "confidential" cabinet papers, it is the Black Box, regarded in higher confidentiality.

But the red box, The term red box informally refers to a ministerial box containing cabinet papers. The black box (which also has a red stripe) is a highly secret box of confidential papers. Source: UK Gov.

[Eri]

I think this is a normal thing ... all part of being ready to be King ... I don't get who can possibly have an issue with this ... no matter how one feels about him the last thing anyone wants is for Willy to be unprepared to be Head of State ...

[TLLK]

Well if he is reading "confidential" cabinet papers, it is the Black Box, regarded in higher confidentiality.

But the red box, The term red box informally refers to a ministerial box containing cabinet papers. The black box (which also has a red stripe) is a highly secret box of confidential papers. Source: UK Gov.

Here is a little information about the boxes used by the government of the UK.

Red box (government) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Double post auto-merged: December 20, 2015, 02:09:21 PM

I think this is a normal thing ... all part of being ready to be King ... I don't get who can possibly have an issue with this ... no matter how one feels about him the last thing anyone wants is for Willy to be unprepared to be Head of State ...

As I recall Princess Elizabeth had access to them during her father's reign. :)

[Jennifer]

Everything the Royals do or don't do is closely scrutinized by both the media and the public. The Cambridges haven't been without controversy. They've been dubbed workshy and lazy. Even Prince Harry couldn't escape that label when his grandparents and father and stepmother worked more than his brother, sister-in-law and him last year. The Duchess of Cambridge was heavily criticised for missing last year's St. Patrick's day service where she was supposed to hand out shamrocks.

For Prince William, add disrespectful to a list of criticisms. He was off on a drunken skiing holiday rather than attending an important event for the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth as a whole.

His uncle, Prince Andrew also went on a brief skiing holiday, but returned to London in time to attend Monday's events; and he will never be King yet he knows of the importance the day's events are to the Royal Family and to the people of the Commonwealth.

Read more:
How seriously does Prince William take his royal duties? ? Royal Central

[TLLK]

IMO he does take them seriously. However the UK is in a unique situation of having a monarch, a controversial adult heir and adult heir-to-the-heir currently undertaking engagements on behalf of the nation along with 12 other people who are considered to be the "working" members of the BRF.  AFAIK he's never missed an engagement that he was scheduled to be present at in the past. Is he perfect absolutely not, but IMO does what is currently required by the monarch and requested the government. He's taken on additional patronages and now investitures as his grandmother finds those activities to be physically taxing.

His grandmother has indicated that she will not abdicate and wants to continue her role for as long as possible. She is slowly handing over more duties to her heir and his heir, but it is on her desired timetable. Typically these announcements that she is going to slow down occur after a specific milestone ie: 90th birthday, diamond jubilee, etc.. Her family follows her lead in these matters.

I do believe that William (along with Kate and Harry) do their best to not overshadow the Queen, DoE, and more importantly the PoW and DoC. Just this week there was another article stating that the PoW must be skipped over in favor of William due to his sharing of his political opinions. It's a tricky situation balancing the the desire for the press to see the younger royals who are all taking on more duties and the lack of interest in the heir/consort. It's unfortunate as Charles is very well prepared IMO.  The media has far more interest in the activities of the grandchildren than they do the heir, his wife and the queen's other children/cousins. They want to see them out because it brings in more revenue.

I'd like to share this example. The direct heir to the Swedish throne recently took about 2 and a half months off to have private time with her family. She was using the rest of her maternity leave and understandably wants time with her small children while she can. During her absence there was an incoming state visit between Sweden and Canada. AFAIK there was no outcry in Sweden or anywhere else calling attention to her commitment to her royal duties. William goes skiing with friends on a Friday, Saturday, and returns home on a Sunday. He is not present at an event that he was never scheduled to attend, but the press goes wild.  :shrug:

[royalanthropologist]

I am a bit conflicted on this one. On one hand I hear voices that William can be quite stubborn and will not tolerate any criticism or advice. On the other hand, there are those who say that the Charles is so sensitive to any perceived sleight or criticism that his sons go out of their way not to offend him or even give the impression of offending him. At this point I am not sure where it is William that is workshy or whether he is deliberately being kept in the background until Charles says otherwise.

The press speculation muddles the waters so much that one does not know what to believe any more. A case in point is that article about skipping a generation. That to me is a perfect example of click bait journalism. There is not a chance that the royal family or the government would ever entertain such a proposition. For a start it is unconstitutional and therefore illegal. Secondly there is absolutely no empirical evidence to suggest that William would make a better king than his father or that he would ever countenance betraying his father by grabbing the throne. To write an article proposing it, does nothing more than rile people up. I understand that the DM has now become a clickbait site so maybe that is what passes for journalism these days.

[TLLK]

@royalanthropologist - It's a tricky balancing act like I mentioned earlier.

IMHO Charles should be the next king. As long as he understands that he needs to keep his opinions private, then I do believe that he is the best prepared PoW in history. I am sorry that he will be assume that role though when he's a senior citizen. However the suggestion that a generation should be skipped has been raised since the failure of his first marriage. Unfortunately it does show up in articles and opinion polls on a yearly basis.

I do not believe that his heir and second son want to see this happen. They are good supporters of their father, but the media loves having young royals and their private lives to write about in their articles. It doesn't help that in the NL, Spain, Belgium, Jordan, Morocco,  and  Luxembourg there are younger monarchs to focus upon. In Norway, Sweden and Denmark there are young CPs and their adorable children. In the UK...this is happening with the monarch's grandchildren.

I've read and listened to interviews from William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Peter and Zara all saying that they ask Granny and Grandpa to slow down and to let them help. So far it has only resulted in a slight change in their schedules. Yes it is true that the Prince of Wales funds his children and daughter-in-law to go about their engagements. As Kate and William become full time, this spending will have to increase. When Harry becomes a full time royal then it will be an additional expense for the Duchy of Cornwall.

I'm sure that William and Kate are relishing this time with their young children by assuming a part time royal role.  His parents as the P and Pss oW did not have this option and IMO it did not help their marriage.  William has had the opportunity to serve the people of East Anglia with EAAA, but this is ending.  Their lives will change this fall as they move back to London and take on a full time role in the BRF. I envision the same happening for Harry and his future spouse unless things have changed dramatically and Charles is now on the throne.

When I'm looking for articles to post here I'm trying to avoid the DM if I can find another English language article. Only problem is that the DM has the best photos.

[royalanthropologist]

Yes DM has great photos but goodness me, the quality of journalism has really gone down there. I was reading some article about the commonwealth day and the grammar/spelling would not get me out of elementary school. Really terrible stuff on DM at the moment.

[LouisFerdinand]

Prince William can no longer be seen as the party Prince if he wants to be a serious heir.   
Prince William can no longer be seen as the ?party Prince? if he wants to be a serious world figure - YouTube

[amabel]

what party prince??  For goodness sake, Will may not be that fond of his royal work, but he ahsn' beena  party prince for years.
Double post auto-merged: June 18, 2017, 01:28:53 PM

@royalanthropologist - It's a tricky balancing act like I mentioned earlier.

IMHO Charles should be the next king. As long as he understands that he needs to keep his opinions private, then I do believe that he is the best prepared PoW in history. I am sorry that he will be assume that role though when he's a senior citizen. However the suggestion that a generation should be skipped has been raised since the failure of his first marriage. Unfortunately it does show up in articles and opinion polls on a yearly basis.

I
then it will be an additional expense for the Duchy of Cornwall.

I think the queen will go on till she drops.. doing nearly as much as she does now.  Phil is stepping down but he's 95.  (great old bloke).  but I agree that Charles IS well prepared I don't think that his 1st  marriage is still an issue, though the press problaby still prattle about it at times because it is still "the exciting story" in his life and beats talking about how he went to see an organic farm.
I agree that he has been a bit too prone to use his position to put forward hs opnions but in spite of the sneering at the  "green spider" letters, quite often his common sense views ARE sensible and popular with the public,...
I think that he will always be a bit inclined to try and put his views forward but I think he has sense enough to keep it minimal when he becomes King.
I think the idea of skipping a generation was problaby privately considered by the RF back in the dangerous days of the early 90s becase at the time Charles was seriously unpopular.  And they may have considered all options and felt that if he were to formally relinquish his place and it passed to Willm, that might be the best solution to his and Camilla wanting to get married.  However I'm sure that the Queen the RF and the PM didn't want it because it broke with tradtion and would require legislation and might set a dangerous precedent.  And Charles ddn't want it. but after a while the heated feelings of disliking Charles faded from the public and they began to revert to a common sense view that yes, he'd behaved badly, yes he had a bad marriage nd was getting divorced.. but that hundreds and thousands of people had done this and it idd not mean that they could not do their jobs.  And Gradually, he returned to a reasonable degree of popularity, he married Camilla, and the world didn't fall in.

[TLLK]

Good points @amabel and IMHO there is no reason to skip Charles in favor of William.

[amabel]

I don't think dislike of Charles has totally evaporated. He is still not Mr Popularity with everyone.

Charles does what he wants so it is no surprise that he married Camilla. He was also spending big bucks on her PR and it was not to keep her on as a mistress.

doesn't matter.  he does't have to be "Mr Popular", he just has to be the queen's eldest son..

[amabel]

Sandy it doesn't matter what he tells the public.  he is the queen's son and he's going to be king.  William will be King but not for many years yet.

[sandy]

No denying that. But it is not known when William and Charles will move up. There are no term limits.

[Mike]

This has probably been discussed before, but I'm not scanning 395 pages of posts.  When Charles is King and, assuming William one day becomes Prince of Wales, is there any foreseeable difficulty of the people accepting Kate as the Princess of Wales in all respects?  I would assume not.

[royalanthropologist]

Some say they don't approve but it will make no difference. That title belongs to the wife of the POW at any given moment in time. That is just the way it rolls.

[Mike]

I realize that, but it's not what I asked.  The public attitude of many toward the current person who is married to the Prince of Wales is well known, but since Kate is in a completely different position, I would think the people would accept her gladly when many do no accept "that wicked woman."

[royalanthropologist]

That may be true of course but the reality is that their acceptance or non-acceptance has never changed the status of any princess of wales. The idea of "acceptability" has been driven by the media and commentators but it really does not change much. Yes, Kate will probably have an easier time since she has no baggage but that is just a matter of perceptions. The title is set in stone. Nothing that her detractors say or think has ever stopped "that wicked woman" from enjoying all the privileges of her position. For example, they have not cancelled an invitation or banned her from any event (save from Diana's remembrance which was understandable) because of her "wickedness". The moment you become HRH, things fall into place. Everyone pays heed to your every word and whim (at least those that really matter in terms of being close to you)

[Mike]

Yes, Kate will probably have an easier time since she has no baggage but that is just a matter of perceptions.

Thank you.  I was just looking for opinions.

[TLLK]

@Mike-I don't see there being an issue with the public accepting and acknowledging Kate being known as the Princess of Wales.

[Mike]

That's what I was thinking, but the question popped into my head and wouldn't go away.

[sandy]

I'm in no hurry to see this happen.