In her youth, Princes Margaret, like Princess Diana, had been the media star of the Royal Family.
Did Margaret see in Diana a reflection of her own self?
I think that could have been a reason PM took a shine to Diana early on.
Quote from: LouisFerdinand on August 30, 2016, 12:02:13 AM
In her youth, Princes Margaret, like Princess Diana, had been the media star of the Royal Family.
Did Margaret see in Diana a reflection of her own self?
I disagree. While the two did share interests: ballet, shopping, love of city life I believe that deep down Margaret was very aware of her royal status and therefore considered herself to be "above" the daughter of an earl and didn't consider Diana to be a reflection of herself. (Conveniently overlooking that her own mother came from a similar social background as Diana's.)
Usually, whether deserved or not, the "blood" royals see themselves above the ones who marry into the family, at least the junior members, for while the QM was one of those ones who married into are thus are not blood royal, over time, she was seen that way once there were no older living members to knock her down a peg.
As I understand it, Margaret was quick to "pull rank" on those people who failed to acknowledge that she was the daughter of a king. However I've never gotten the impression that her elder sister felt the same.
So in the end while she may have had shared interests with Diana, I'm don't believe that she'd consider her an equal.
Very true, I dont wish to speak for
@LouisFerdinand so I hope he can give more clarification, but the meaning I got from his question was more of a sense of did PM see some elements in common between herself and Diana in terms of their common interests and initial media interest.
PM always struck me as an oldschool royal, or what the public perception of them was, so yes, I dont think shed have felt Diana was equal to her, even though by marrying Charles she was only behind the Queen in terms of rank.
Princess Margaret Rose was in the news. The coverage was via newspapers, magazines, television.
Princess Diana was in the news. The coverage was via newspapers, magazines, television.
Margaret would go shopping with diana in the early eighties and refused to stop being cordial towards di after their separation. she supposedly was upset when in 83 di stole the show with a new do and dominated the press coverage instead of hm at the opening of Parliament. Margaret told her to never take the attention from hm again.they were neighbors and one night di snuck a man in the trunk of her car and Margaret was amused by that. she was bothered by di taking her parking spot. the 95 panorama interview angered Margaret so much that she truly hated her for the rest of her life.
Quote from: Duch_Luver_4ever on August 31, 2016, 03:10:18 AM
Very true, I dont wish to speak for @LouisFerdinand so I hope he can give more clarification, but the meaning I got from his question was more of a sense of did PM see some elements in common between herself and Diana in terms of their common interests and initial media interest.
PM always struck me as an oldschool royal, or what the public perception of them was, so yes, I dont think shed have felt Diana was equal to her, even though by marrying Charles she was only behind the Queen in terms of rank.
Yes I agree that Margaret was very conscious of her royal status. (I've read that Andrew is like minded.) I think that she understood Diana's dislike for the isolation of Balmoral so the pair would head off to the shops to get away from place.
Margaret was THE glamorous and fashionable royal lady in the 1950's and early 1960's so there was a great deal of press attention paid to her much like there was to Diana.
They certainly had som interests in common, and I think in the early days they enjoyed each others' company and were able to find ab it of refuge form the horsey hearty RF atmosphere iwht each other. However, I doubt If Margaret saw Diana as anyting like herself. She was royal and was very conscious of it.. and as time passed I think she began to see that Diana while rebellious as she herself had been, was TOO rebellious and lacked respect for the Queen nd the RF. She had been a bit rebellious as a girl but had never gone so far as to try to walk out of the RF or to discuss them and their failings with the press.. So she grew to dislike Diana and to feel that she wasn't in any way like herself.. and although they were neighbours at KP in the last years, their relationship was absolultey frosty.
I agree. I think Margaret liked to think of herself as a rebel and a bit of a bohemian. It's not quite clear how far that went, however. She could be imperious. Diana wasn't. She had never experienced having to do housework on a daily basis. Diana did. They were both stunning looking women when young, and attractive to men. They were both quite witty, but Diana could be more bawdy. Margaret was, as a Princess born into royalty, very conscious of her royal status. Diana was an aristocrat, who was proud of her family and often became impatient with life as a Royal. All in all, even if you allow for a considerable age gap I think their differences outweighed their similarities.
In several ways, such as her choice of husband, Margaret did behave unconventionally. However, deep down she was a product of the BRF and the upperclass life that was lived by them in the 1940s and 1950s. She showed complete and absolute loyalty to her sister the Queen. Once she decided that Diana had trampled on that she froze her out, and of course she was the only member of the family to not bow her head to Diana's passing funeral cortège.
I don't think PM was particularly judgmental about Diana for affairs, lovers etc. She even found it amusing sometimes the way men were being carried in boots of cars. I think for a time she even sympathized with the problematic childhood and the marital problems. Being a neighbor she saw everything. Even after the separation PM wrote to Charles to say that she would continue engaging with Diana. It is panorama that changed everything. Nobody (unless they were really weird) would get on with an in-law that attacked their own family...nobody. The royal family closed ranks (like any family would) and PM joined the fold.
On the surface of it, the two women had superficial similarities. Rebellious, beautiful, divorced. However, underneath PM was always a devoted monarchist and royalist. Despite the incredible problems she suffered in her own marriage, it is inconceivable that she would ever do a Morton or even Panorama. She was just too loyal to the crown and her family do to anything that would threaten them to that extent.
Princess Michael did not ditch Diana and I am not so sure they all closed ranks on her. At a Diana book reception (about her charities) several royal cousins showed up with the Spencer sisters (this back in the early 2000s). Margaret did pull some stunts herself and was seen with a lover in the Caribbean causing a scandal in the late seventies. This pre Diana. Margaret did have a bad marriage but her husband did not have his friends badmouth her to the media the way Charles friends did with DIana (pre Morton)
Quote from: Curryong on June 30, 2017, 06:03:17 AM
I agree. I think Margaret liked to think of herself as a rebel and a bit of a bohemian. It's not quite clear how far that went, however. She could be imperious. Diana wasn't. She had never experienced having to do housework on a daily basis. Diana did. They were both stunning looking women when young, and attractive to men. They were both quite witty, but Diana could be more bawdy. Margaret was, as a Princess born into royalty, very conscious of her royal status. Diana was an aristocrat, who was proud of her family and often became impatient with life as a Royal. All in all, even if you allow for a considerable age gap I think their differences outweighed their similarities.
In several ways, such as her choice of husband, Margaret did behave unconventionally.
I wouldn't say that Margarets choice of husband was all that unconventional. Tony Snowdon was a bit "bohemian" but he was an aristocrat, and Diana didn't HAVE to do housework, she chose to...but yes, I think that the 2 of them weren't that similar.
Marg did turn on her when She showed disrespect fror the royal family and talking to newspapers. and Indeed I believe they ahd a fight earlier about a butler and Mgt was reminding Diana that she was only a royal by marriage.
Double post auto-merged: June 30, 2017, 06:00:34 PM
Quote from: sandy on June 30, 2017, 04:43:04 PM
Princess Michael did not ditch Diana and I am not so sure they all closed ranks on her. At a Diana book reception (about her charities) several royal cousins showed up with the Spencer sisters (this back in the early 2000s). Margaret did pull some stunts herself and was seen with a lover in the Caribbean causing a scandal in the late seventies. This pre Diana. Margaret did have a bad marriage but her husband did not have his friends badmouth her to the media the way Charles friends did with DIana (pre Morton)
Princess Michael is nto exactly one of the charmed circle. And Margaret would not hav been bothered by Diana's having lovers, what bothered her was disloyalty to the Queen and RF. and she most certainly DID turn against Diana..
Margaret would stay up until all hours at parties and nobody could leave until she left (and spent hours on end singing at the party).
I don't think Snowdon and Margaret really had a strong enough bond for a marriage to last. She wanted to get married and he was "there" which is what it boiled down to.
@sandy PM was quoted as saying " When Townsend wrote to tell her he was getting married it was then I decided to marry Tony" PM was 29 and 30 when she married. I do have to say PM was very offended when Panorama aired and that did change how she felt about Diana becoming her worst enemy.
I believe they had quarrelled before Panorama, over a butler. I'm not sure if Margaret employed him after he had worked for Diana and Di complained..and M told her to remember whose house she was living in. But Panorama was the last straw for Mgt and she completely chilled on Diana after that. Even though they lived near each other at KP, relations were icy. Diana bought a present for Lady Sarah Chatto's first baby and had to give it to M's chauffeur because presumably she wasn't welcome at M's apartment...
I think Prss Margaret's choice of husband was considered quite unconventional for the late 1950s and very early 1960s. Professional photographers, even people like Cecil Beaton, were more used to being summoned to the Palace whenever PR photos had to be taken than joining Royal families.
Yes, Tony Armstrong Jones was from an upper middleclass family, but a lot was made of his unconventional lifestyle at the time, his studio hideout near the Thames which Margaret had visited, etc, considered quite shocking by 1960 standards which were still quite prim and proper. One side of Margaret's personality did enjoy Bohemianism and mixing with show business and artistic types and I believe her marriage was because of this side predominating at the time, as well as the news that Peter Townsend was getting married.
I have read that the news of Margaret's engagement to a photographer gave rise to some comments in other Royal families in Europe. Apparently something was said by members of the Belgian Royal family and the story goes that the news got back to the Queen. She bided her time but made her point when she sent, as her representatives to King Baudouin's wedding, her sister and her husband.
Ha ha. I am loving the butler wars :hehe: "He's my butler. No he's not love. He's mine... That's it, you are dead to me" :hehe:
Quote from: royalanthropologist on July 01, 2017, 04:42:01 AM
Ha ha. I am loving the butler wars :hehe: "He's my butler. No he's not love. He's mine... That's it, you are dead to me" :hehe:
as I recall, it was that Marg had hired someone that Diana had let go or who had left, and Diana didn't like it. nad Marg told her that she was "living in the queen's house" and that it was none of he business whom Marg hired if she had split with tehm.. which is fair comment apart from the snobbish way it was put
Double post auto-merged: July 01, 2017, 08:09:34 AM
Quote from: Curryong on July 01, 2017, 04:26:26 AM
I think Prss Margaret's choice of husband was considered quite unconventional for the late 1950s and very early 1960s. Professional photographers, even people like Cecil Beaton, were more used to being summoned to the Palace whenever PR photos had to be taken than joining Royal families.
Yes, Tony Armstrong Jones was from an upper middleclass family, but a lot was made of his unconventional lifestyle at the time,
I .
I think it was more his occupation, than his ancestry because he is actualy as I recall related ot the noblitiy.. and I think his mother had married someone with a title...
but I think the queen liked him and remained firenldy with him after the divorce from Margo.