Prince Harry's army career

[oak_and_cedar]

Does anyone know why Prince Harry left the army? Or why he couldn't continue in some capacity?

He was fairly young when he left, if i'm not mistaken.

[amabel]

Does anyone know why Prince Harry left the army? Or why he couldn't continue in some capacity?

He was fairly young when he left, if i'm not mistaken.

Presumably with his grandparents getting older, he was required for royal duties...

[TLLK]

@oak_and_cedar -From what I have read Harry was going to be required to take a desk job during his career if he wanted to continue in the Army. Apparently this was not something that he wanted to do so he chose to retire.

[amabel]

Harry could have stayed in the army if not required for royal duties...

[TLLK]

More on Prince Harry's army career.

Prince Harry's Military Career | The Royal Family

Early Military career

Prince Harry served in the Army for ten years, rising to the rank of Captain and undertaking two tours of Afghanistan. He continues to work in support of his fellow servicemen, promoting support for wounded men and women as they adapt to life post-injury.

[wannable]

When did Harry 'invert' life and educational lessons.  I read the 180 degrees, it's inverted/opposite and it rings true not only with this new developent of Sandhurst calling him out, but also with accusations he has done, which seems he is projecting to third parties (like his family), what he has done.


Mark Nichol is a Military Defense journalist

EXCLUSIVE: Army did not teach Prince Harry to dehumanise the enemy, say his Sandhurst classmates after he revealed he had killed 25 Taliban
Harry claimed the Army taught him to dehumanise the 25 Taliban that he killed
The Army said the Prince was taught dehumanising and 'othering' were wrong
Officer cadets say they were warned such cognitive biases were dangerous
Sandhurst sources said that Harry's representation was 'wrong by 180 degrees'

Prince Harry's claim the Army taught him to dehumanise the 25 Taliban he killed has been challenged by his Sandhurst classmates.

Speaking exclusively to the Mail, they said the prince was actually taught the exact opposite ' that dehumanising and 'othering' were completely wrong ' while a student at the officer academy.

According to other officer cadets, they and Harry were warned such cognitive biases were highly dangerous.

The Mail has also obtained Sandhurst's battlefield ethics syllabus which highlights these risks, using examples such as the killing of a Taliban prisoner by Royal Marine Sergeant Alexander Blackman.

Last night, former colleagues and Sandhurst sources said Harry's representation of army teaching was 'wrong by 180 degrees'.

Harry attended the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst (RMAS) in 2005-06, commissioning, aged 21, as Officer Cadet Wales into the Blues and Royals cavalry regiment.

His 'kills' came on his second tour of Afghanistan as the gunner aboard an Apache attack helicopter which is armed with Hellfire missiles and a 30mm chain-gun, which he fired.

In his controversial memoir Spare he claimed 'they' his Army instructors ' trained me to 'other' them and they trained me well'.

He added: 'In truth, you can't hurt people if you see them as people. They were chess pieces taken off the board, bad guys eliminated before they kill good guys.'

But this claim was called into question last night, as an officer who passed out alongside Harry said: 'The dangers of cognitive biases were taught and there was no suggestion of simply 'othering people, that's just wrong.

'If you no longer think of your enemy as being like yourself, if you dehumanise them, your sense of right and wrong is entirely compromised.

'The idea he and I were taught that is ludicrous. Instructors were very clear we should not go down that road.'

Sandhurst students spend several weeks learning the principles of ethical leadership to prepare them for leading troops in combat.

The Army's core text on this subject, by Dr Dennis Vincent, says: 'Unethical action starts with small steps ' obedience to authority figure, dehumanisation of victim, loss of empathy.'

Dr Vincent is head of Sandhurst's Department of Communication and Applied Behavioural Science.

RMAS cadets are advised to read academic publications such as Dehumanisation (Kelman, 1973), which discusses the dangers of stripping people of their dignity and humanity, Othering (Levi-Strauss, 1955) and Dehumanisation (Faure, 2008), which consider the perception of others as evil.

These texts spell out the dangers of approaches such as Harry's breaking down of Afghans into two groups, good guys and bad guys ' the warnings are particularly relevant to the conflict in Afghanistan, where boundaries between combatants and non-combatants were often blurred.

The shooting of a wounded Taliban prisoner by Sgt Blackman is also studied.

Sandhurst cadets are taught that 'dehumanisation' influenced decision making among Sgt Blackman and his colleagues before he pulled the trigger.

In 2013 the experienced commando was found guilty of murder, later reduced to manslaughter, after shooting an injured captive in the chest at close range with a pistol. Two other marines from his section were acquitted.

A Sandhurst source said: 'Harry's representation of army teaching on battlefield ethics could not be more wrong. He is 180 degrees wrong.

'How he could think othering and dehumanisation are right, when actually officers are taught they're both wrong and also highly dangerous, is beyond me.'

Army 'did not teach Harry to dehumanise the enemy' | Daily Mail Online

[Curryong]

Yeah, I gotta say, for someone that wasn?t aware you had to curtsy to the Queen, Meghan latched onto the ?birthright? concept real quick. I think Harry has always liked being a prince. Just not the not so fun stuff that comes with it.

Like serving twice in the army and air services war zones in Afghanistan in helicopters. That sort of fun?

[wannable]

He wasn't at a war zone for 35 years.  He was living like a 1% of the population.

[Curryong]

He wasn't at a war zone for 35 years.  He was living like a 1% of the population.

Who said he was there for 35 Years? And plenty of Harry?s family and friends lived elite and privileged lifestyles and didn?t go to any war zones at any time.

[HistoryGirl2]

Not sure what you?re trying to say in regards to being him in the army. A) We were discussing the aspects of being a prince?ie. showing up for charity events and being publicized by the media doing so. And B) He was heavily protected while in the army and no harm was ever going to come to him. Another princely privilege. A type of security that regular soldiers do not enjoy.

[Curryong]

It?s a furphy that Harry had protection all the time in Afghanistan. Friends of one of my cousins in England served with him there.

And I don?t see how if you are in a helicopter and the Taliban are firing surface to air missiles at it how you could be protected from that.

[wannable]

BBC documentary he was protected by Gurkhas.  Military men have said he was protected at all times.  He said himself that from huge 30 miles of distance he pushed the button to kill.  His gunner position at the Apache. His chances to get killed in a Apache are less than 0.5%.  (Just in case with the whataboutism, a Ambulance Chinook - William/RAF can carry upto 55 troops or converted ambulance upto 10 tonnes of mixed cargo, including 1 RPO  :wink: )

[Curryong]

There were no Gurkhas at Camp Bastion. And he and the Gurkhas that he did serve with for a short while were caught under fire at a hillside fort by enemy fire. He did his part in keeping them off as did his fellow soldiers.

You and I have written about this before. And I spoke about one of his bios which covers practically every day of Harry?s time in Afghanistan in minute detail. He spoke to men who served with him and they are named in this book.

[wannable]

Google is my friend, just one example, there are 20 pages though if one cares to read: Welcome to the Gurkha Brigade Association The Gurkha Brigade ... QGE Celebrating Dashain in Camp Bastion, Helmand, Afghanistan

[HistoryGirl2]

It?s a furphy that Harry had protection all the time in Afghanistan. Friends of one of my cousins in England served with him there.

And I don?t see how if you are in a helicopter and the Taliban are firing surface to air missiles at it how you could be protected from that.

He served in the army?good on him. Other royal men have done the same. But please let?s not act like he was just another guy. He is never and can never be just another guy as long as there?s an HRH in front of his name.

And that?s really what this is about. Those birthrights he wants for his children come with certain privileges and he wants his children to be given those privileges. That?s perfectly fine. It?s the law and titles exist. But it?s a bit rich to go on about ?Finding Freedom? and ?making a cultural and systemic difference? and then falling back and clinging to the privileges afforded to you by a monarchy.

Prince Harry: SAS whisked Royal to safety during deadly Taliban attack at Camp Bastion - Mirror Online

Harry's 'no special treatment' claim debunked as Queen had final say during career | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

Armed Guards For Harry in Afghanistan

[Curryong]

Harry was not guarded by Gurkhas at Camp Bastion. He had his own quarters and men who served with him there spoke about him, with admiration. As did the pilot instructor back in Britain who taught him how to fly in the first place. .

And William managed to shove two RPOs in his air ambulance when he deigned to go out on his part time missions in Norfolk, not Afghanistan of course.

[wannable]

As I said he has placed an onus on himself and his children, all this after his alleged pain, suffering, trash talking of his family, the monarchy, including the military life - he trashed them too in his book. One is pissed and todger proud about the killings, the other is humbled by the saving of lives.

[Curryong]

 From the Mirror article

The whole camp was locked down. All troops including Harry had to stay in their accommodation wearing full body armour and armed.? The details became clear yesterday after the ferocious assault that started at 10pm local time on Friday.

[HistoryGirl2]

^And the other articles that speak to the special treatment afforded?

Also not sure why you brought up William, but as you have, yes, he too is an HRH, and had protection officers everywhere even in a helicopter in the U.K. Also makes the claim that Harry was out there in Afghanistan with zero supervision just like every other guy sound all the more ludicrous.

But it?s definitely in keeping with Harry?s delusion that he?s the sad sack that no one in the RF cares whether he?s alive or dead, and William is the perfect prince that?s gotten everything he ever wanted.

[wannable]

Can't beat a BBC documentary where he was fully protected by Gurkhas. Can't beat internet search engine where there are hundreds of videos of Gurkhas at Camp Bastion.

[HistoryGirl2]

^This has been known. It was known then and it?s known now. There is a 0 percent chance that he wasn?t heavily guarded or that special plans weren?t made for him. He?s a prince. Just like his son now. There?ll be special plans for him when he goes to school. It kind of comes with the title. Harry mustn?t hate it but so much of he wants his children given the same treatment he claims to abhor.

There is an inconsistency between words and actions.

[Curryong]

Can't beat a BBC documentary where he was fully protected by Gurkhas. Can't beat internet search engine where there are hundreds of videos of Gurkhas at Camp Bastion.

However, nobody in Afghanistan ever accused him of cowardice or taking advantage of his position while he was there. That Mirror article comments that he had a gun and was ready to fire it. And he was certainly pinned down at the hill fort with Gurkhas and was not alone. Other British soldiers were with him. 

[HistoryGirl2]

I don?t wanna speak for @wannable, but reading through her posts not a single person has accused Harry of ?sniveling cowardice?. It?s been said that he had special treatment and was protected as the prince that he was.

Just like Prince William wasn?t a coward because he had security detail with him at his job. They are princes. The both of them. They have always been afforded privileges that were not afforded to others. But only one has bragged about fleeing all of that ?oppression.?

And should William ever go on record talking about how it?s not fair that Charles gets top billing and that his children aren?t being given everything they deserve, the same comments will be made about him.

[Curryong]

Wannable and I have been through Harry?s honourable service in Afghanistan several times before.

[HistoryGirl2]

Well, I?ll speak for myself and say that I don?t think Harry was a coward, but that doesn?t erase the reality of his circumstance. The root of my point, which started the whole thing was that he lacks awareness into just how much privilege he had/has.

What I have inferred from his comments is a general dissatisfaction with the hierarchy, and specifically, his place within that hierarchy. That?s why I mock his comments about the ?freedom flight.? He seems to think that he?s some sort of pioneer that fled the cruel clutches of monarchy and the unfairness of it all?as he hoists a title on his children that is rooted in unfairness.

It?s the irony that seems to evade him that I find amazing.