Engagement, Marriage, Divorce of Diana and Charles (Thread from 2020 onward)

[Curryong]

I was a bit older, lol, but I remember that day so well! As I've often said, there was something magic about it all, St Pauls crowded with foreign royals and dignitaries, the first wedding of a Prince of Wales for about 120 years, the coach, uniforms, beautiful bride, ecstatic crowds. How could anything possible go wrong!

[TLLK]

@Curryong-While I thoroughly enjoyed watching and reading about other weddings, IMHO this was THE royal wedding of the 20th century when it came to pomp and pageantry.

[QueenAlex]

@Curryong-While I thoroughly enjoyed watching and reading about other weddings, IMHO this was THE royal wedding of the 20th century when it came to pomp and pageantry.

Yes but it is too sad, to think of how difficult the marriage was....

[LouisFerdinand]

I like the YouTube video of the Glass Coach arriving at St. Paul Cathedral. The 25-foot train is quite long. Lady Sarah and India did a good job of keeping it in order.

[QueenAlex]

Lady Diana was of the Aristocracy/Nobility. James was not. He may not have liked all the duties, responsibilities, and events of the Aristocracy/Nobility.

what are all these "duties" and events that he would not have liked?

[Curryong]

Lady Diana was of the Aristocracy/Nobility. James was not. He may not have liked all the duties, responsibilities, and events of the Aristocracy/Nobility.

Why on earth would marrying an Earl's daughter mean that James would have taken on 'the duties, responsibilities, and events of the nobility'? There have been several commoners who have married the daughters of Earls who have just carried on with their ordinary lives and careers as normal, as have their wives.
If you mean that he might have had eventually to escort her to things like her son's Coronation, or to sons' Royal weddings and grandchildren's christenings, why would he have disliked that? It's not as if he would be playing any part in the ceremonies. Diana didn't take on anything like State dinners after her separation or any royal duties of a ceremonial nature, so James would have been free as a bird as her husband.
Anyway, Diana wouldn't have married James Hewitt, even if he had remained loyal. She grew bored with him after a couple of years, and his lack of finances would have been a serious problem. She needed a spouse who was wealthy himself and wouldn't be a drain on her.

[QueenAlex]

Why on earth would marrying an Earl's daughter mean that James would have taken on 'the duties, responsibilities, and events of the nobility'? There have been several commoners who have married the daughters of Earls who have just carried on with their ordinary lives and careers as normal, as have their wives.
If you mean that he might have had eventually to escort her to things like her son's Coronation, or to sons' Royal weddings and grandchildren's christenings, why would he have disliked that? It's not as if he would be playing any part in the ceremonies. Diana didn't take on anything like State dinners after her separation or any royal duties of a ceremonial nature, so James would have been free as a bird as her husband.
Anyway, Diana wouldn't have married James Hewitt, even if he had remained loyal. She grew bored with him after a couple of years, and his lack of finances would have been a serious problem. She needed a spouse who was wealthy himself and wouldn't be a drain on her.

I dont know if she grew bored with him... I think she realised that he wasn't loyal to her, as time passed and she grew wary of him.
She broke the relationship once because he insisted on going to Germany to train in relation to his army career and I think she was annoyed that he had put his job ahead of her.. and then when they got back together at the time of the Gulf war, he had begun to toy with the idea of making money out of their affair and she grew afraid that he would (as he did) publicize the affair and possibly ruin her reputation with the public..

[PrincessOfPeace]

Most nobles marry commoners. It?s 2020, not 1920.

Charles Spencer has been married three times and none of his wives are aristocratic. 

[QueenAlex]

Diana wasn't "noble" anyway.. in the UK only the holider of the peerage has noble status.. and her sisters married men with no titles...

[Amabel2]

Most nobles marry commoners. It?s 2020, not 1920.

Charles Spencer has been married three times and none of his wives are aristocratic.

And unless a peer is very grounded in the English countryside and his estates, there aren't any particular duties.

[LouisFerdinand]

Nicholas Soames, a friend pf Prince Charles, told the Duke of Edinburgh's private secretary, Lord Rupert Nevill, what he thought about Charles' proposed engagement to Lady Diana. Nicholas thought the situation was 'a mismatch'.   
Do you think Nicholas was correct in his observation?

[Curryong]

Well, obviously Fattie Soames (groveller extraordinaire ) was correct. It was a mismatch. Other friends tried to talk Charles out of proposing as well, but by then he was determined to go through with it. It's been observed, with Charles and many other royals, that advice is only taken onboard when it coincides with their own views at the time, and Charles was by then gloomily believing that for the nation (actually the media) his father and everybody else he had to marry even though he didn't love Diana, rather than grow a spine.

[Amabel2]

well who DOES take advice that goes against their own feelings?  People ask for advice but its rare that they actually are willing to take it.  What they hope for is ofr someone to say something that will coincide with their own views...

[Curryong]

well who DOES take advice that goes against their own feelings?  People ask for advice but its rare that they actually are willing to take it.  What they hope for is ofr someone to say something that will coincide with their own views...

Yes that's true, but every now and again you get people who say 'Thank God I took ------'s advice and didn't buy into that business!' or 'I didn't really want to take notice of 'parents/friends etc's warnings about ----- but I'm so glad I did as I might have ended up married to him/her!'

People generally respect the advice of people they respect and admire, people who they believe have good judgement and common sense, even if in the end they don't follow their advice.

Personally I think it was a great shame that the Queen did her usual ostriching trick and refused to give her advice to Charles on his proposed marriage when he asked her for it.

If they had behaved like most parents and children, (even adult children), they could then have both sat down for a heart to heart and thrashed out the pros and cons in an honest and frank way. Perhaps if they had then Charles might have come to another decision. As it was he felt isolated, and compelled to marry.

[LouisFerdinand]

If Queen Elizabeth II had spoken up, she might have inquired if Lady Diana had the right qualities to be Princess of Wales and eventually a future Queen Consort.

[Curryong]

If Queen Elizabeth II had spoken up, she might have inquired if Lady Diana had the right qualities to be Princess of Wales and eventually a future Queen Consort.

I don't think she would have doubted that so much (after all Diana had behaved very well during the probationary period when dating Charles and the Di fever reached a whole new level AFTER the wedding) as whether the couple would mesh together sufficiently privately and whether Charles truly loved this girl or whether he felt pressured by the media. Given what Margaret said at the time of the engagement I think all the senior royals were very much aware that Camilla PB was still in the picture. Doubts were expressed by Margaret as to whether she would be prepared to let go.

There was a considerable age gap, and Charles's more solitary pursuits and hobbies may have given her pause. It's often forgotten that Charles enjoys a lot of reading, a lot of walking on his own in the Scottish Highlands, he has a great love of gardening as well, none of which attracted Diana much and which, to be honest, the Queen and Prince Philip weren't particularly in tune with, either.

However, the big elephant in the room was Camilla PB and I don't feel the Queen would have been comfortable questioning what Charles felt about her, or how that might affect his marriage. I don't think the BRF do emotions very well and so what should have been put out there in a frank exchange just wouldn't have been with what we know about the rather repressed Elizabeth II and her not so close relationship with her son at the time. So a huge opportunity was missed to avoid future misery IMO, because that talk never happened.

[LouisFerdinand]

How many of the Mountbattens were opposed to Prince Charles marrying Lady Diana?

[Amabel2]

What had the Mountbattens to say to anything?

[Curryong]

Lord Mountbatten was of course dead (assassinated) by the time Charles was thinking of marrying Diana.

The only thing I can remember is a much later interview with Earl M's daughters, where they seemed to believe that Diana was a bit casual. They appeared shocked by the fact that when they asked about the ring Diana said 'Oh it's in my handbag. Go and get it Charles!' and he obediently trotted off to get her bag.

Perhaps they felt that the POW, whom they'd known since babyhood, was being treated like a footman! On the other hand, if they hadn't met his fiancee before the engagement, (and it appears they hadn't), they don't seem to have had any input into the selection!

[Amabel2]

Lord Mountbatten was of course dead (assassinated) by the time Charles was thinking of marrying Diana.

The only thing I can remember is a much later interview with Earl M's daughters, where they seemed to believe that Diana was a bit casual. They appeared shocked by the fact that when they asked about the ring Diana said 'Oh it's in my handbag. Go and get it Charles!' and he obediently trotted off to get her bag.

Perhaps they felt that the POW, whom they'd known since babyhood, was being treated like a footman! On the other hand, if they hadn't met his fiancee before the engagement, (and it appears they hadn't), they don't seem to have had any input into the selection!

I can't see why they would.  Mountbatten was of course close to Charles and a natural intriguer so he might well have been consulted had he been alive.. but unless C was very friendly with the daughters I cant see why they would have any input. True one of the daughters I think was a bit less than charmed by Diana.. and thought probably that she was getting above herself by ordering her fiance around like that... but I think that most of the RF liked Diana at first but became uneasy about her within a year or so.

[Princess Cassandra]

The title of this thread is "A Mismatch".  And of course, it was a mismatch.  However, in light of what we now know of her baggage from childhood and her personal issues, it's hard to think she would have been happy with anyone long term.   

[Amabel2]

The title of this thread is "A Mismatch".  And of course, it was a mismatch.  However, in light of what we now know of her baggage from childhood and her personal issues, it's hard to think she would have been happy with anyone long term.

Possbily.  the trouble was that Diana DID fit in very well with royal life in public. She was very good at engagements, at attracting people, at charity work..and she was pretty and beautifully dressed.. and poeple DID like her.  But she didn't fit in with the RF in Private, particularly with her husband. But at the beginning, when she dated Charles I think that she was so charming, so pretty, willing to please and everyone in the RF who met her thougth she was a lovely girl and likley to be an asset to the RF. I think that C's friends, who perhaps saw a bit more of her during the courtship, did perhaps get signals that she was very immature and that perhaps she wasn't as likley to fit in as she seemed at first... but Charles was I think genuinley attracted to her and had made up his mind that even though he did have doubts, he was going to marry her...

[LouisFerdinand]

If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat, would he have agreed to live where she wanted to live?

[Amabel2]

If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat, would he have agreed to live where she wanted to live?

Since we dont know where she might have wanted to live, how can anyone answer that question?

[TLLK]

If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat, would he have agreed to live where she wanted to live?

If Lady Diana had married an aristocrat who was the main title holder ie Duke, Earl, Marquess I believe that she'd realize that they'd need to live at the family's estate if they still possessed one. She saw the same happen with her father when he became the Earl Spencer and they  moved to Althorp. If it was a younger brother of then, they'd have more flexibility and would likely live reasonably close to his or their place of employment.