The War of the Wales' discussion Part 3

[royalanthropologist]

A bit of DM sensationalism I think.  :hehe: I know divorce is painful but I cannot imagine C&D weeping together about it. This was an end that at least one side of the couple had wanted for a long time.

[Trudie]

Well it does come from Ingrid Seward however she never said this particular event happened even in the aftermath of Diana's death or Charles remarriage why would she reveal this tidbit now?. But we can agree royal the one side of the couple who wanted it for a long time was Charles and I highly doubt he cried since all he ever wanted was Camilla.

[sandy]

I don't think Charles and DIana got "closer" he still had the big birthday bash for Camilla at Highgrove. Seward wants people to believe this spin for some reason.

[Princess Cassandra]

I'm looking forward to watching the program to see the context in which this was said. It does seem very strange. 

[sandy]

I don't believe much of what Seward claims.

[Trudie]

I don't think Charles and DIana got "closer" he still had the big birthday bash for Camilla at Highgrove. Seward wants people to believe this spin for some reason.

I totally agree Sandy IMO I think Seward wants this spin to be believed to show Charles in a good light especially since he is closer to the throne than he was over twenty years ago. Charles never made a real attempt to get close to Diana that was all reserved for Camilla. I see this as really laying groundwork for honors in Charles reign.

[oak_and_cedar]

Ah, Seward is at it again.
Didn't she help write that awful Simmons book or am I mistaken?

PC probably cried tears of joy in my opinion.

[sandy]

Yes, indeed Seward did. She wrote a few Diana bashing books soon after Diana died.

[royalanthropologist]

PC probably cried tears of joy in my opinion.

I think there was a feeling of relief and being free after all the problems in the marriage. Each party was now free to chart their own path for a start. The briefings could be put to rest as a result of the gagging order in the divorce settlement. Similarly, the issues of custody had been resolved once and for all. For Charles, it meant a chance for remarriage and no further threat to his succession based on his first marriage.

Given all those circumstances,  I find it hard to believe that Charles wanted that marriage to continue after 1986. He certainly gave every indication of someone that wanted it to end. The image of them crying together about the divorce seems like sentimental nonsense. The moment the queen ordered a divorce, Charles quickly wrote in agreement. That does not strike me as the reluctant divorcee at all.

[oak_and_cedar]

Yes, indeed Seward did. She wrote a few Diana bashing books soon after Diana died.

How interesting that Seward said Diana told her that both "cried".
This is a woman who had her place checked for listening devices, if I recall correctly.
Who wrote a letter fearing for her safety and essentially wanted out from a very difficult situation.

This is what I mean by hearsay and to look at a person subsequent actions.
In my opinion many people are speaking FOR Diana. And Diana of course can?t answer back.

Double post auto-merged: March 27, 2019, 11:59:17 AM

I think there was a feeling of relief and being free after all the problems in the marriage. Each party was now free to chart their own path for a start. The briefings could be put to rest as a result of the gagging order in the divorce settlement. Similarly, the issues of custody had been resolved once and for all. For Charles, it meant a chance for remarriage and no further threat to his succession based on his first marriage.

Given all those circumstances,  I find it hard to believe that Charles wanted that marriage to continue after 1986. He certainly gave every indication of someone that wanted it to end. The image of them crying together about the divorce seems like sentimental nonsense. The moment the queen ordered a divorce, Charles quickly wrote in agreement. That does not strike me as the reluctant divorcee at all.

Both of them wanted to be free.
PC was for obvious reasons.
Diana, because it was unbearable to be in a situation where her husband "left" her at 23 and having a much older woman lurking about.
I've never seen a marriage where the wife becomes the "third" wheel. And I believe this is what was "required" of Diana to put up with. Astounding.

[sandy]

I think there was a feeling of relief and being free after all the problems in the marriage. Each party was now free to chart their own path for a start. The briefings could be put to rest as a result of the gagging order in the divorce settlement. Similarly, the issues of custody had been resolved once and for all. For Charles, it meant a chance for remarriage and no further threat to his succession based on his first marriage.

Given all those circumstances,  I find it hard to believe that Charles wanted that marriage to continue after 1986. He certainly gave every indication of someone that wanted it to end. The image of them crying together about the divorce seems like sentimental nonsense. The moment the queen ordered a divorce, Charles quickly wrote in agreement. That does not strike me as the reluctant divorcee at all.

Charles never made any such indication that he wanted the marriage to end in 1986. At that time it was "keeping up appearances" and Diana and Charles duly went on tours even danced together and looked happy.

At the end of the marriage, I don't think Diana and Charles were entirely trustful of each other. They did not get "closer" since after Diana died, Charles cooperated with Junor on a Diana bashing book. Junor corroborated Charles (and Camilla's) cooperation. So all was not rosy. And Charles is still resentful and hung up on rewriting the past.

[Princess Cassandra]

Although I do find it hard to believe they would have cried together after their divorce, and that if they had they would probably not have talked about it, I admit that something like that COULD have happened and got misinterpreted as many of those things do in the public eye.  In addition to relief at the end of the divorce proceedings, I know that all those who go through divorce experience a sense of failure and loss in addition to all the negative, angry emotions of the failed relationship.  Despite anyone's opinion of the Wales marriage and divorce, there would be sadness and a sense of loss in both camps. And they still had two children and would need to be together at times because of them. And despite it being on a public stage, there is a lot that none of us know or should know.

[sandy]

I doubt Charles cried and I doubt Diana would have cried in front of him.

[wannable]

phil dampier
‏@phildampier

The Prince and Princess of Wales, Charles and Diana, separated on this day 27 years ago.

How did you take the news?

[wannable]

I was a teenager, and a super athlete focused on my thing, in later years I found interest with the BRF. 

But yes @dianab  comparing and contrasting, Prince Andrew's shenanigans are way far more scandalous.  The POW's was more like behaving like cheap celebs, z listers, a scene from #LoveIsland

[TLLK]

Double post auto-merged: December 09, 2019, 04:36:07 PM

How did you take the news?

TBH I wasn't surprised by the announcement at all. It had been clear in recent years leading up to their separation that the couple were estranged.

[sandy]

The Queen was so happy to see Charles marry Diana according to all observers. She was I think in denial about the Camilla situation with Charles even on the wedding day.  She always thought bad situations would disappear by themselves.

[oak_and_cedar]

I think that if PC and PD remained married, and he had given up his other relationship, they would have been a force to be reckoned with. In some ways I think that PD would have had a very good effect on PC.

[sandy]

Charles just did not give her a chance. He had a program of getting the two heirs and did not respect Diana's wishes about Camilla. Camilla I think was more or less in charge.

[oak_and_cedar]

This is just my opinion of course, but I think that Camilla was/is a manipulative and calculating person. I think that she saw PC's 'soft spots' and took advantage. People like that know what they're doing.

[amabel]

I think that if PC and PD remained married, and he had given up his other relationship, they would have been a force to be reckoned with. In some ways I think that PD would have had a very good effect on PC.

Since they had virtully nothing in common and got on very badly, its hard to see how she would have had a good effect on him...

[sandy]

Obvious question: If Charles thought they had nothing in common and as he later told his biographer, he preferred Camilla and his most ardent plea (!) was to hope he could learn to love Diana and never said he loved her, and at 32 why did he marry her and put Diana through all this?

It is hard to see how Charles would have a good effect on his wife when he made it clear he would stay in touch with his mistress and not want to give an inch (marriage is give and take). I don't get why Diana gets crucified when Charles knew the score. Diana was still a teen when she got engaged and I think it was a cruel thing for Charles to do.

I t hink Camilla was the malignant influence. She was and is an expert manipulator and constantly put down Diana. Diana stood no chance. If Charles REALLY wanted Camilla he had no business marrying Diana. A man should not go into marriage in that wishy washy way that he "hoped" to fall in love with the woman he married. Total cop out.

[amabel]

He had a duty to marry.. He did not realise how little he had in common with Diana because she had doen a good performance of enjoying all the things that he liked...  hardly think that he married Diana with some idea of making her unhappy...

[sandy]

No he did not have a "duty" to marry . He did not have to. There is a line of succession.

Charles had been doing a great performance of recreating Camilla as his "safe" married friend who would advise Diana.

Charles did not love Diana and married her anyway. A far cry of Diana being accused of "pretending" to like Balmoral. Even though Diana went to Balmoral every year until the separation and had morning sickness the first year she was there. She might have enjoyed it if she did not have to keep getting sick and throwing up.

[oak_and_cedar]

Since they had virtully nothing in common and got on very badly, its hard to see how she would have had a good effect on him...

Who said they had nothing in common? This is a genuine question. I think that PC had married PD but also had his "sweetheart" on the side. Thus he was all set and had no need to make an "effort". His "sweetheart" (using the term very ironically) was also keen on butting in and 'helping things along'. That was the main problem IMO.

Diana was a memeber of the class that PC grew up with. They were both serious minded when it came to serving their nation. They were both interested in medicine, alternative medicine, health care, child care, arts and so on. They both liked the opera, ballet, and classical music. Diana was also very much in love and devoted to PC. I always got the impression that she was very patient and generous with her partners. They could have had a real shot at a long term marriage. IMO.