Royal Insight Forum

Victoria, Princess Royal, German Empress, Queen of Prussia | Unofficial Royalty (http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/victoria-princess-royal-german-empress-queen-of-prussia/)

QuoteVictoria, Princess Royal was the eldest child of Queen Victoria and her husband Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. She was born on November 21, 1840 at Buckingham Palace, nine months after her parents' marriage. Her christening was held on February 10, 1841, her parents' first wedding anniversary, and she was given the names Victoria Adelaide Mary Louisa. In the family, she was known as Vicky. Her godparents were:

Wilhelm II (1859-1941) was the Emperor of Germany from 1888 to 1918.   
His father was Frederick III, Emperor of Germany. His mother was Victoria, Princess Royal of Great Britain.   
Kaiser Wilhelm II: His life and facts | History Extra (http://www.historyextra.com/article/international-history/life-week-kaiser-wilhelm-ii)

^ I'm not a great fan of Wilhelm II. He treated his mother Vicky appallingly, shocking even Queen Victoria. He'd always been able to get round his grandmother, though she wasn't blind to his faults, because he claimed to remember his grandfather, the sainted one, Prince Albert, who had died when he was three.

His widowed mother had to smuggle her letters and papers out of Germany, with the help of her mother's Private Secretary Henry Ponsonby. Wilhelm was going to seize them after his father's death as they contained criticisms of him.

He mounted a search for them in his mother's home but Ponsonby had already got them out in a trunk marked 'Books'. Later on when the elderly Wilhelm, then in exile in Holland, wrote some self justifying memoirs criticising his mother's attitudes, Vicky's letters were a contradiction of these and were also published.

First grandson and also the biggest evil who started WWI. Maybe influenced by colonies of superpower UK he got his ideas to gain control of the world, as his father sized other German countries, kingdoms and dukedoms into Germany but they missed from middle ages any colonies. Prussia became a leading kingdom and Prussia was military state, so Germany became as well. The wife of Edward VII didnt like him, he, influended by his Danish wife Alexandra, wasn't on speaking terms with him as well. They blamed him from stealing Schleswig Holstein and also reason why Alexandra had miscrarriage. Also German relatives of Queen Mary, son of Edward VII didnt like Prussian king, reason was his annexe of their kingdoms under his rule, Kassell, Strelitz Mecklenburg, Wurttenberg, they were against Willhem who succeeded his father after he died after couple of months as new king. His mother as well. He died as old man in exil, in country he fought against, leaving Germany in 1918 in broken state, low self esteem,poverty and domestic war - marxists,right wings...dukes killed themselves when they lost their rights..duke of Mecklenburg Strelitz...Willhelm run away and Weinmar republic became new name for Germany..aristos banned, Germany humiliated, their army never defeated just asked to give up, with poverty and 1930s crisis Nazis seized power. The rest is known. Funny German aristo von Schullenberg relative of famous German 1970s model Veruschka wanted to kill Hitler. The self identity and self esteem of nation always work, with good economics, lost of culture leads to Right wing in France because Islam in France canno adjust, the worst is low self esteem. Question how much was linked with personal wished of former Kaiser and how much did Germany want to be a superpower?

Wilhelm had a turbulent relationship with his mother Victoria.     
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2507296

Turbulent indeed ! Both had very difficult personalities. Vicky's was personified by a sort of intellectual elitism. When in Germany she had the irritating habit of praising Britain to the skies, when visiting Britain she would point out how much better it was in Germany.

A lot of the difficulties between mother and son sprang from the fact that the two eldest children, Wilhelm and Charlotte, were kept away from their parents a great deal, from babyhood. This was the doing of their grandparents Wilhelm I and his wife, Augusta aka 'The Dragon of the Rhine'. Augusta was as liberal as her husband was reactionary and they were unhappily married but they were united in directing their two eldest grandchildren's lives, and Henry as well, (they didn't bother about the others.)

Wilhelm II developed a penchant for archaeology during his vacations on Corfu during the first decade of the 1900s.     
He also liked to sketch plans for grand buildings.

Kaiser Wilhelm II Rose was a Hybrid Tea rose with red blooms.     
It was named in honor of Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany.

                     How often was Queen Victoria amused?   
                     Queen Victoria - Part 9 - The Queen Was Often Amused - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z6zGgFdDMk)   
                     :lol:  :lol: :lol: :teehee: :teehee: :teehee: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Wikipedia article on Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld expressed:   
When the Queen's first child, the Princess Royal, was born, the Duchess of Kent unexpectedly found herself welcomed back into Victoria's inner circle.

Strict punishments, including being left alone on a staircase with her hands bound, were inflicted whenever Princess Victoria resisted her mother the Duchess of Kent and John Conroy's authority.   

Queen Victoria expressed that when her son the Prince of Wales succeeded to the throne he should be known as King Albert Edward. Bertie felt constrained to point out that no British sovereign had borne a double name in the past.

Kaiser Wilhelm II became the first person to make a sound recording of a political document, using Thomas Edison's cylinder.

John Brown died in 1883. Queen Victoria publicly described him as her devoted personal attendant and faithful friend.

Emperor Wilhelm and the Crown Prince prepared for battle during World War I.   
Kaiser Wilhelm II and the Crown Prince prepare for battle during World War I in G...HD Stock Footage - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ZBUX_pEag)

Queen Victoria's mother, the Duchess of Kent thought it was an insult that her daughter should only have two names.

Here is a nice photo of Queen Victoria standing outdoors. She is wearing a bonnet and shawl which is rather fancy. An observer might not think that she was the Queen.   

Any comments on the TV mini-series on PBS?

Victoria (TV Series 2016? ) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5137338/)

Unfortunately, IMDb just shut down their message boards.

Within three hours after she became Queen in 1837, Victoria had a meeting with the Prime Minister Lord Melbourne and informed him that she wanted him to remain in government.

In 1867 Queen Victoria signed off on the Reform Act of 1867. The reform act gave voting rights to all working class men.

Was the decade after Prince Albert's demise in 1861 a lost decade for Queen Victoria?

It depends what you mean by 'lost'. Victoria still saw her Prime Ministers (and other Ministers on occasion) on a regular basis after the intense agony of her first grief had passed. She never stopped attending to her red boxes. However, her grief was intense and long lasting and the mourning period lasted for the rest of her life, though of course she cheered up on many occasions in the decades afterwards.

'There is no-one left to call me Victoria now.' she said in the immediate aftermath of Albert's death. (That wasn't quite true as her lugubrious Uncle Leopold was still alive, until 1865. However she felt that she had lost her life's stay and the companion who had been with her since they were both twenty.) It has to be remembered that she was a woman of only 42 when the husband she had worshipped died.

Her friend and servant John Brown helped lighten the load after he was brought down from Scotland about 18 months after Albert's death. Also her favourite Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (Lord Beaconsfield) was empathetic. He charmed her and encouraged her to go out and be seen, with a little success, but for the rest of Victoria's life, not just for a decade, she became quite reclusive and disinclined to do anything she didn't want to do, from opening Parliament to greeting foreign dignitaries.

Victoria's life changed irrevocably after December 1861. Inevitably, so did her court. The soirées, grand dinners and balls were no longer held at BP or at Windsor. She had loved dancing. She hardly ever danced again after Albert's death except occasionally at ghillies balls up at Balmoral. The centre of London social life moved from BP to Marlborough House where the Prince of Wales and his beautiful wife ruled Society.

Did Queen Victoria ever dance with her son, Prince Albert Edward, The Prince of Wales?

Victoria Adelaide detested the Prussian emphasis on the army, which was something that she was not used to.

Queen Victoria warned her daughter-in-law, Alexandra, Princess of Wales, that the Duchess of Manchester was not a fit companion for her.

Victoria was always warning people about something or other! This particular Duchess was German-born, tall, fair haired, blue eyed and beautiful. While married to the Duke Louise carried on a very longterm affair (lasted for decades) with the heir to the Duke of Devonshire. He was Lord Hartington, a very lackadaisical character known in Society as Harty Tarty. Years later, after the Duke of Manchester's death, his widow married Harty Tarty, by then the Duke of Devonshire, and she was nicknamed the 'Double-Du(t)chess'! 

Each week Princess Victoria sent a letter to her father, Prince Albert. There would be a mention of German political events.   
She tried to change the gardens at the Sanssouci Palace into something more English.

When Prince Albert was deceased, Queen Victoria wrote lists of all the things Albert had been good at. Her lists mentioned his construction of the beautiful new dairy at Windsor, the laying out of the kitchen gardens, the building up of the royal art collection, and the Great Exhibition of 1851.   

On May 24, 1837 Princess Victoria came of age. In the evening, she attended a ball at St. James's Palace. For the first time in her life, Victoria travelled with her own attendant, but without her mother. The Duchess of Kent travelled in another carriage.

In 1867 Queen Victoria made a private publication of Leaves from the Journal of Our Life in the Highlands from 1848 to 1861. It was dedicated to the memory of Albert, The Prince Consort.

In 1845 Victoria and Albert had visited Parkhurst Prison on the Island of Wight. Nineteen years later, Victoria decided to repeat the trip.

At the Darmstadt wedding of her granddaughter, Princess Victoria of Hesse, to Prince Louis of Battenberg, Queen Victoria was very impressed with Prince Alexander of Battenberg. It was thought Alexander might marry Princess Victoria of Prussia.

Well, Victoria of Prussia yearned for Alexander Battenburg. I'm not sure the feeling was mutual. Alexander, like his brothers, was attracted to beautiful women. Possibly if Sandro had got Bulgaria as he and his supporters had hoped he would have married the plain Victoria. He didn't however, (at least partly due to Wilhelm II, Victoria's brother) and so his fate and hers led in very different directions.

As I recall Alexander of Bulgaria wasn't that interested in Victoria, but I suppose if he had been able to be a  ruling sovereign he might have picked her as a suitlable royal bride.  however I don't think he cared much for her, and ended up marrying morganatically to someone "not quite quite".  I believe she carried a torch for him and was never happy in her marraiges...

^I knew that Victoria was originally Alexandrina Victoria. Even had she reigned as Queen Alexandrina, Alexandrina sounds musical.

There was a vacancy for a lady-in-waiting on Queen Victoria's staff. Victoria found it comforting to surround herself with widows. One eligible lady was Lady Eliza Jane Waterpark. Lady Waterpark's husband, a former lord-in-waiting to Prince Albert, was deceased. Lady Waterpark was hired to be a lady-in-waiting.

On June 26, 1857 was the first day of Queen Victoria awarding the Victoria Crosses. It was also the first time she had ever conducted a review on horseback.

Queen Victoria?s Journals ? Royal Central (http://royalcentral.co.uk/?p=96060)

QuoteOn 1 August 1832, the thirteen-year-old Princess Victoria made her first entry into her diary; it was a diary, as she described it on its title page, which had been given to her by her mother, the Duchess of Kent, at Kensington Palace the day before. Bound in red, the diary bears the stamp of her name in gilt letters: ?H.R.H The Princess Victoria?; it had been given to her so that she could keep an account of the 1832 progress which she would make to Wales, with her mother.

The Lord Mayor of London asked Queen Victoria if she would come to open the new Blackfriars Bridge when it was completed. Victoria regreted that it was quite out of the question for her to do anything of the kind in the heat of the summer. In the event when November came, she opened the bridge November 6, 1869.

A look at Queen Victoria?s Wedding ? Royal Central (http://royalcentral.co.uk/blogs/a-look-at-queen-victorias-wedding-97369)

Quote?Oh! This was the happiest day of my life!? With these words, Queen Victoria described her wedding day in her diary ? 10 February 1840, writing up the event for the day?s entry from Windsor Castle. It marked the beginning of her marriage to her cousin, Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. The opposite date of this ecstatic exhortation of joy on behalf of the Queen was unquestionably 14 December 1861; the day of the death of the Prince Consort at Windsor Castle, after which there was a hiatus of two weeks, before the grief-stricken Queen could even bring herself to record the event of the previous fortnight in a journal entry. Twenty-one years had preceded this date, during which the Queen had given birth to nine children, five daughters and four sons.

The Royal Pavilion in Brighton was used as a summer family home by Queen Victoria.

The Royal Pavilion at Brighton was used as a summer home for Victoria for a limited period of time. I don't think Victoria liked the flamboyant Regency interior decoration. Plus then as now Brighton was a busy town, even though in those days it was a smart winter resort. Victoria got very tired of not being able to go for walks with her Ladies and Gentlemen, or even carriage rides, without people staring at her. On occasions people would even come up and stare under the large bonnet she wore.

After her marriage, in the early 1840s, came Osborne House on the Isle of Wight, which was by the sea, and then later Balmoral in Scotland. Both offered privacy to the RF in a way Brighton could not.

Queen Victoria warned Albert Edward, The Prince of Wales in 1868, "If you ever become King, you will find all these friends most inconvenient, and you will have to break with them all."

Queen Victoria's Leaves from the Journal of Our Life in the Highlands was first published in January 1868. It sold 20,000 copies almost immediately.

The book was pretty pedestrian but the public were enthralled and it became a bestseller. The trouble occurred later, in Victoria's widowhood, when she decided to publish 'More Leaves from our Life in the Highlands.' This had quite a few mentions of her personal servant John Brown in it which her family and courtiers found very embarrassing.

Did Queen Victoria encourage the match of her granddaughter, Princess Sophie of Prussia and Crown Prince Constantine of Greece?

Yes, I think the old Queen did. Victoria was always fond of matchmaking among her grandchildren and others. It was Vicky her daughter, who had doubts, the possible instability of the Greek throne being among them

Sophie ran foul of her awful brother Wilhelm later in life. She and her two sisters (the youngest of Vicky's family) were always great supporters of their mother after their father's premature death. Wilhelm was not kind to Vicky and on occasion as Kaiser would ban the three sisters from visiting her.

When Queen Victoria heard of this she wrote to Sophie advising her to 'take Sunny with you'. Sophie's husband Constantine (known in the family as 'Sunny') was Crown Prince of Greece and Willie could hardly ban him from visiting his mother in law with his wife. Victoria was very shrewd in many ways.

On August 1, 1832, 13 year old Princess Victoria set off on the first of her journeys with her mother and the Conroys. The three month tour took in Wales, the Midlands and Cheshire. Princess Victoria did not like the tour. She did not like the early starts and the endless dinners and receptions.

When Victoria was a little girl, her food was tested before every meal. She was not allowed to walk down stairs without holding somebody's hand.

Queen Victoria cherished her German heritage. In 1840 the diarist Charles Greville expressed that the Queen seemed to consider 'her German uncles as her only kith and kin'.

Was this before or after Victoria's marriage to the Sainted One? She had always been close to her Uncle Leopold, her mother's brother, and after marriage to her cousin I suppose the Saxe Coburg side of the family assumed greater importance. Albert was never, in his 21 years in England, truly accepted in Society (and that included the 'old' Royal family, George III's remaining sons and their families) nor did he ever feel anything other than German.

Victoria's mother was a Saxe Coburg by birth of course and close to her family, and the way she carried on about Victoria's 'wicked uncles', especially Cumberland, and tried to keep Victoria away from Court during the reign of William IV, it's no wonder Victoria was quite prejudiced against her father's family. She did revere her father's memory of course and was quite fond of the Duke of Sussex (her Uncle Gussie) who gave her away on her wedding day, and her cousins George and Mary of Cambridge, so it wasn't all bad. 

From Claremont in March 1841, Queen Victoria wrote she had "musical fun. I danced several Quadrilles and Valses, finishing up with a Gallop with Albert."   
Please note Victoria wrote Waltzes as Valses instead of as Waltzes.

Yes, that was how it was spelled in those days. It was regarded at first as a 'foreign' dance and rather shocking, as in contrast to what went on before, (minuets, round dances a la Jane Austen films,) men actually took women in their arms for this dance and the couple held hands as they whirled about the room close together. When the waltz was first introduced from Europe it was even banned by some prim and proper organisers of balls in assembly rooms. However it grew very very popular.

A french term used in the titles of pieces of music.  :orchid:

QuoteQueen Victoria warned Albert Edward, The Prince of Wales in 1868, "If you ever become King, you will find all these friends most inconvenient, and you will have to break with them all

Backstabbers by The O'Jays.🎤  Falstaffian.  :lol:  :shrug:

Yeah, but it was from the word 'Walzen'' ('to dance') originally. And they would have pronounced it with a v of course. The dance itself developed supposedly from peasant dances in Bohemia and Austria.

On February 9, 1840, the day before their marriage, Prince Albert presented wedding gifts to Queen Victoria. These included four beautiful old fans.

Queen Victoria welcomed Prince Alfred and Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna after their wedding in Russia.       
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/384213411957272308

It was the only one of Victoria's children's weddings to take place away from England and without her present. Of course she wasn't happy about this and certainly she refused to toddle off to St Petersburg to attend. Victoria disliked and mistrusted the Romanovs and the feeling was mutual.

The Prince and Princess of Wales and Prince Arthur, the groom's younger brother, were present at the wedding. The Queen sent her own chaplain, Dean Stanley, to conduct the Anglican section of the service, and his wife Lady Augusta was entrusted with gifts of prayer books for bride and groom and the sprigs of myrtle for Marie's bouquet, something which became traditional for BRF brides.

Queen Victoria congratulated Princess Louise of Prussia at her wedding in 1879.     
1879 The Graphic Queen Victoria congratulates Princess Louise of Stock Photo: 167039861 - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1879-the-graphe-queen-victoria-congratulates-princess-louise-of-prussia-167039861.html)

Queen Victoria's last drive from Osbourne House 
1901 ILN Queen Victoria's last drive from Osbourne House Stock Photo: 167039780 - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1901-the-queen-victorias-last-drive-from-osbourne-house-167039780.html)

Queen Victoria with her young grandson, Prince Wilhelm of Prussia 
Queen Victoria with her young grandchild Prince Wilhelm of Prussia Stock Photo: 158124627 - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-queen-victoria-with-her-young-grandchild-prince-wilhelm-of-prussia-158124627.html)

Queen Victoria's years of marriage to Prince Albert had been ones in which she scarcely left her husband out of her sight. Her widowhood placed burdens on her younger daughters, since Victoria needed companionship.

In 1857 Queen Victoria and the Prince Consort, while in Scotland, went to stay as the guests of Lord Aberdeen at Haddo. In true old Highland fashion, he assembled all his tenants on horseback to welcome Victoria. Some 600 of them escorted her to the fine Georgian house.

In 1881, Queen Victoria had, for the first time in her reign vetoed a Queen's Speech, announced in advance the decision to withdraw from Kandahar.

The Duke of Wellington with Queen Victoria, Prince Albert, and the young Prince Edward at Windsor Castle   
The Duke of Wellington with Queen Victoria, Prince Albert and the Stock Photo: 113474074 - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-duke-of-wellington-with-queen-victoria-prince-albert-and-the-young-113474074.html)     
 

---

Double post auto-merged: December 14, 2018, 07:51:52 PM

---

The Christmas Day menu for Queen Victoria and her family in 1840 included both beef and a royal roast swan or two.     
 

When Princess Charles of Hesse-Darmstadt came to the Isle of Wight in 1862 to attend the wedding of her son Prince Louis to Princess Alice, she remarked, "from the moment... I was presented to the Queen and her kind, almost motherly words in pure German sounded in my ear, a feeling of home came over me."   
 

One of Queen Victoria's first acts was to write a letter to her aunt, the Dowager Queen Adelaide. Victoria begged Adelaide to consult nothing but her own health and convenience. Victoria also wrote that Adelaide could remain at Windsor just as long as she pleased.   
 

Victoria did not like the Prussian emphasis on the army, which was something she was not used to.

When Albert Edward, Prince of Wales was offered the post of President of the Society of Arts, Queen Victoria vetoed the proposal on the grounds that he was too young and inexperienced.

In Victoria: A Life, A. N. Wilson wrote:     
Queen Victoria deplored feminism. Only in January 1870, the Queen had told Gladstone that she had 'the strongest aversion for the so-called & most erroneous "Rights of Women"'.

Victoria disapproved of votes for women. She shared the views of many of her contemporaries that women did better when they exercised an influence behind the scenes on their menfolk. On the other hand she very much admired women who made a difference for the public good like Florence Nightingale and the philanthropist Angela Burdett Coutts.

Queen Victoria's wedding bouquet was made entirely of snowdrops. Prince Albert's favorite flowers were snowdrops.   
Royal Wedding Flowers: Queen Victoria ? Royal Central (http://www.royalcentral.co.uk/blogs/royal-wedding-flowers-queen-victoria-114851)     
 

Queen Victoria's coronation occurred on June 28, 1838. The coronation itself was a five hour event in the stately surroundings of Westminster Abbey. At 79,000 pounds the pageant cost more than double that of Victoria's predecessor, King William IV.         

Queen Victoria married at one o'clock in the afternoon so the public could enjoy the spectacle of her and Prince Albert's journey to and from the Chapel Royal in St. James' Palace.     

In the short period since Queen Victoria had announced her engagement to Prince Albert, the Tories in Parliament  had made trouble for her. The proposal made by Melbourne's government that Albert be granted the income of 50,000 pounds was done without consulting the Opposition in advance.

Queen Victoria considered Franz Winterhalter's masterpiece to be the family group which he painted in the summer of 1846. When the painting went on show at the Royal Academy in 1847, it was criticized on the grounds that the artist was foreign.

Empress Victoria's relationship with her son Wilhelm II was further strained by his cold treatment of her following the demise of her husband. Wilhelm had sent troops to seal off the palace and papers were confiscated. These actions outraged his mother.

Did Queen Victoria send a personal condolence to a royal relative when there was a demise in his/her family?

Yes, Victoria was always sending condolence letters, whether the dead person was a relative or not. For instance Mrs Abraham Lincoln (Mary) received one. Victoria must have sent hundreds over the course of her adult life, sometimes asking for details of the deceased's last hours and moments.

Quote from: Curryong on August 02, 2019, 04:08:51 AM
Yes, Victoria was always sending condolence letters, whether the dead person was a relative or not. For instance Mrs Abraham Lincoln (Mary) received one. Victoria must have sent hundreds over the course of her adult life, sometimes asking for details of the deceased's last hours and moments.

I think there was nothing Vic liked better - from mid life on anyway, than the ritiuals of mourning and writing sympathy letters and the like

Yes, and writing about her mother and Albert's last hours to other royals too. Thank heavens she was never in on the deaths of any of her children, those who predeceased her having expired in other countries, or she would have added those to the list as well.

---

Double post auto-merged: August 02, 2019, 06:37:04 PM

---

Queen Victoria's dying and death, and the chaos and confusion surrounding it. Some of her children found it difficult to comprehend that she could actually die, and the country felt the same way! Some fascinating details here. The Kaiser ordered a death mask and the family refused.

The bizarre funeral of Queen Victoria: how, when and where did she die? - History Extra (https://www.historyextra.com/period/victorian/queen-victoria-death-funeral-mask-cause/)

In late April 1890 Queen Victoria made a short private trip to Darmstadt on her return from holiday in France. She was greeted at the station by her son-in-law, Louis of Hesse, and then Princess Alix and two of Alix's older sisters, Victoria and Irene.

In 1862, Lord Derby's Cabinet proposed an annual allowance for all of Queen Victoria's younger children, in the event of their not marrying, of 20,000 pounds. At the time of the proposal there were six unmarried children. This allowance was intended to cover the expenses for all of them.

That might be so. However, the British Govt and their mother expected the daughters to marry and many of their future expenses to be taken over by their husbands/ whichever Royal house they married into. In that event Queen Victoria would go to Parliament again and a new dowry arrangement would be drawn up. And the  daughters were expected to live with Mama until marriage. So they had few expenses, really.

As for the sons, I think that Queen Vic may have felt that Pr Leopold would perhaps die young, being 'an invalid', as people with congenital conditions  were  called in those days. I certainly don't think she expected him to marry and have offspring, for instance.

Quote from: Curryong on August 25, 2019, 01:49:10 AM
That might be so. However, the British Govt and their mother expected the daughters to marry and many of their future expenses to be taken over by their husbands/ whichever Royal house they married into. In that event Queen Victoria would go to Parliament again and a new dowry arrangement would be drawn up. And the  daughters were expected to live with Mama until marriage. So they had few expenses, really.

As for the sons, I think that Queen Vic may have felt that Pr Leopold would perhaps die young, being 'an invalid', as people with congenital conditions  were  called in those days. I certainly don't think she expected him to marry and have offspring, for instance.

still I woudnt' have said that ?20k was a lot to cover the expenses of so many children.  I suppose Victoria did expect most of the girls to marry, except for one spinster daughter to be her companion...

Did the domestic happiness of Queen Victoria depend upon the companionship of her daughter Princess Beatrice?

Yes, in her old age and Beatrice's widowhood, I think it did. Earlier on though, she had Leopold at home as well, and more or less demanded the regular presence of her other British based daughters like Lenchen as well. Her sons stationed or based abroad escaped that.

Queen Victoria opened the Great Exhibition on May 1st, 1851.   
Victoria, Queen of England, opens the Great Exhibition Date Stock Photo: 105253610 - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-victoria-queen-of-england-opens-the-great-exhibition-date-1st-may-105253610.html)

Victoria and her husband Prince Frederick of Prussia in 1858     
Victoria and Frederick of Prussia, 1858 | Victoria, Victoria reign, Queen victoria prince albert (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/122934264816087471)

When Prince Albert tried, as delicately as he could, to pass on Baron Stockmar's advice to Queen Victoria, about toning down her bossiness in her letters to her daughter Princess Victoria of Prussia, there was an explosion of wrath from the Queen against the Baron.

Both parents put many instructions in letters to their daughter after she became Crown Princess of Prussia. It's true that Prince Albert's were mainly reminders about his manifesto that Vicky and Fritz become vanguards of liberalism in Prussia, while Victoria's were about all aspects of the Princess's life for ladies in waiting to nurses care to Prussian Court rituals (she disapproved of a lot of them) and writing to her every day, keeping her informed. Both parents exerted pressure of different kinds,  though.

At the time of her wedding, Queen Victoria asked that none of her guests wear white so as not to draw attention away from her.

More than 20 letters written by Queen Victoria between May 1897 and July 1900 were sold at auction for 15,000 pounds on August 21, 2013.   
Queen Victoria's Handwritten Letters Sell for ?15,000 (http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/royal_family/queen-victoria-326655.html)

Princess Victoria of Prussia came to join her mother at Osborne in readiness for Queen Victoria's fortieth birthday on May 24, 1859. It was a very happy reunion. Princess Victoria only began to cry when she talked of Prince Wilhelm's left arm being so weak.   

Victoria and Albert were incredibly young grandparents even by the standards of the day. Both of them were 39 when Willie, their first grandchild, was born.

Vicky was very young when Wilhelm was born. She seems to have felt both defensive because she hadn't presented her Fritz and the Prussian royal house with a faultless physical specimen and annoyance because her son's arm didn't respond to treatment. And everything known to man and science in the 1850s/60s was attempted, from plunging the arm into freshly killed animal blood to primitive electrical treatments. As it had been forced completely out of its socket during the horrific birth process that was hardly surprising really.

Queen Victoria's Coach built in 1869 for the railway   
Queen Victoria's Coach (1960) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xf9JDTuTpw)

President Abraham Lincoln sent a letter of condolence to Queen Victoria after the demise of Prince Albert.   
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/abe-lincolns-letter-queen-victoria-shown-royal-exhibitionn107351

This fan was acquired for Queen Victoria in Paris by her aunt, Queen Louise of the Belgians.   
Queen Victoria Embroidered Fan 1858 in 2020 (With images) | Queen victoria, Vintage fans, Antique fans (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353180795780994910)

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on March 01, 2020, 12:27:23 AM
Queen Victoria's Coach built in 1869 for the railway   
Queen Victoria's Coach (1960) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xf9JDTuTpw)

Interesting! How do you like the satin covered ceilings? They must work hard to maintain the carriage.

Quote from: Princess Cassandra on April 17, 2020, 06:49:32 PM
Interesting! How do you like the satin covered ceilings? They must work hard to maintain the carriage.

@Princess Cassandra, I like the satin covered ceilings. I am not sure how they would be cleaned.

I'm not sure how those satin covered ceilings would have been cleaned at the time either. I remember steam trains (just) and if a window was opened you were likely to get an eyeful of black smuts and other soot particles, which also flew over upholstery and clothing. So, even on the hottest day train windows were usually closed.

Queen Victoria was referred to as Grandmother of Europe. She had 42 grandchildren by nine children.   
Snapshot of History: Queen Victoria Grandmother of Europe - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoIPXoLIa88)

Queen Victoria with Empress Augusta of Germany in the gardens of Frogmore House   
Queen Victoria of England with Empress of Augusta of Germany in the... News Photo - Getty Images (http://www.gettyimages.com/license/613465232)

My dear Grandmama: Queen Victorias memories of her grandmother

?My dear Grandmama?: Queen Victoria?s memories of her grandmother ? Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/features/my-dear-grandmama-queen-victorias-memories-of-her-grandmother-146117/)

I like the fact that the Queen's Grandmother the Dowager Duchess remarked: 'The English like Queens.' Queen Regnants are nice.

Queen Victoria and the miser who left her a fortune. (Part of the money was used to build the 'new' Balmoral.)

The Miser, the Queen and Balmoral Castle | The Royal Firm (https://theroyalfirm.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/the-miser-the-queen-and-balmoral-castle/)

Since it was considered a personal inheritance, the money was Victoria?s to spend or invest as she liked. The Queen first ensured that Neild?s servants were taken care of and increased their inheritance from ?100 to ?1,000 each. Victoria then repaired the roof and installed a stained glass window in the church where Neild was buried. Once these obligations were fulfilled, Victoria used ?31,000 of her private inheritance to purchase and remodel the Balmoral estate for her family.

@Curryong, Thank you for the interesting information about how Queen Victoria received a vast sum of money.

Staffordshire pottery figurines are a very British thing, even though Staffordshire pottery was exported all over the world, including to the Americas, in massive numbers.

The figures were cheap and countless working class households had them on their mantelpieces. As well as Royal figurines, (I've seen Prince Albert, the Queen and many of their children in big group models with the Queen holding the latest baby)  these potteries produced images of popular politicians, actors, others in public life like Florence Nightingale, Dickensian characters and also famous criminals in the most sensational cases of the day, especially if the miscreants hanged. (Public hangings in the 19th century.) Also there were models of well known buildings, notorious or not, WA, BP, Windsor Castle and the Red Barn, scene of a famous murder.   

A marble statue of a young Queen Victoria, the Mother of Canadas Confederation, stands in the middle of Canadas Library of Parliament

Pic: Twitter (https://twitter.com/Canadian_Crown/status/1321082996154388481?s=20)

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on October 27, 2020, 01:45:42 PM
A marble statue of a young Queen Victoria, the Mother of Canadas Confederation, stands in the middle of Canadas Library of Parliament

Pic: Twitter (https://twitter.com/Canadian_Crown/status/1321082996154388481?s=20)

@PrincessOfPeace, The crown is very detailed.

Queen Victoria had grown up with the tradition of decorating a tree at Christmas time. The custom had been introduced to the English court by her Hanoverian ancestors. It was continued by her mother Princess Victoria, Duchess of Kent.

I believe it was Queen Charlotte, Queen Victoria's paternal grandmother and King George III's consort, who first put up Xmas trees in the royal palaces in Britain. However, I think it's fair to say the heyday of British Christmases, puddings, cards, etc was in the mid Victorian era, when Dickens and the plethora of new journals publicised it all. There were many engravings of Victoria, Albert and there young children pictured in the pages of popular magazines, gathered around the decorated Christmas tree.

Queen Victoria chose Ottawa as Canadas capital city & gave Royal Assent to Canadas Confederation in 1867. Her birthday has been celebrated as a holiday by Canadians since 1845. 2020 marked her 201st birthday.

Twitter (https://twitter.com/Canadian_Crown/status/1334868829378318337?s=20)

I would imagine that Queen Victoria, like most wealthy people who could afford to serve roast turkeys at Xmas, did so because, unlike geese or other birds, turkeys had plenty of flesh and went further among large groups of people invited to dine.

Even so, many families still ordered a slab of beef and/or the traditional English goose for their Christmas Day meal. Geese were very popular in Victorian England and one even features in a Sherlock Holmes short mystery story written late in the 19th century.

Gradually, turkeys became quite popular among larger families. I originally come from Norfolk, England. East Anglia and especially Norfolk was a prime breeding county for geese and turkeys. In the days before freight travel for live animals large flocks of these birds were walked to London markets and to other large towns by goose herders. It probably meant that the birds lost weight on the way, but it was the only way to do it then.

The history of turkey and why we eat it on Christmas Day (https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/christmas/history-turkey-eat-christmas-day-106736)

Btw, in my own family everybody ate turkey except my grandmother who had partridge!

@Curryong,  :goodpost:   
The article declared: Their bones ready for soup.   
My grandmother makes turkey soup from the broth of the turkey.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on December 06, 2020, 10:06:23 PM
@Curryong,  :goodpost:   
The article declared: Their bones ready for soup.   
My grandmother makes turkey soup from the broth of the turkey.

Thanks LF. Like your grandmother the Victorians very much followed the line of 'Waste not, want not'! Broths and soups were made from the bones of practically every animal, from land or sea, who landed in the cook's kitchen.

Quote from: Curryong on December 06, 2020, 11:43:14 PM
Thanks LF. Like your grandmother the Victorians very much followed the line of 'Waste not, want not'! Broths and soups were made from the bones of practically every animal, from land or sea, who landed in the cook's kitchen.

@Curryong, Grandmother likes your statement.

Statues of Queen Victoria, the Mother of Canadas Confederation, can be found in many cities across Canada, including Victoria, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Kitchener, Hamilton, Toronto, Montreal & Ottawa.

Pic: Twitter (https://twitter.com/Canadian_Crown/status/1338169328416468993?s=20)

Imagine all the geographic locations in Canada that are named after Queen Victoria.

From Wiki, ref places named after Queen Victoria in Australia. The Queensland list is incomplete. Plus, some places in Australia were settled and/or named before Victoria, in the reigns of Kings George IV and William IV. So a large suburb in Melbourne is called Williamstown, there is a King George Sound off Albany in Western Australia and South Australia's capital is named after William's Queen Adelaide for instance.

Australia   Edit
Australian Capital Territory   Edit

Queen Victoria Terrace, Canberra

New South Wales   Edit

Queens Park, the urban park
Queens Park, the Sydney suburb located adjacent to the urban park
Queen's Square, Sydney
Statue of Queen Victoria by Joseph Boehm
Queen Victoria Building, Sydney
Statue of Queen Victoria, Sydney
Queen Victoria Street, Bexley
Queen Victoria Street, Drummoyne
Victoria Bridge (Penrith)
Victoria Bridge, Picton
Victoria Road, Sydney

Queensland   Edit
State of Queensland

Queen Street, Brisbane

South Australia   Edit

Electoral district of Victoria
Great Victoria Desert (also in Western Australia)
Lake Alexandrina
Victoria Square, Adelaide
Victoria Park, Adelaide

Victoria   Edit
State of Victoria

Queen's College, University of Melbourne
Queens Park, Lorne
Queens Park, Moonee Ponds
Queens Park, Newtown
Queen Victoria Gardens, Melbourne
Queen Victoria Hospital, Melbourne
Queen Victoria Market, Melbourne
Queen Victoria Street, Newington
Queen Street, Melbourne
Victoria Dock, Melbourne
Victoria Street, Melbourne
Victoria Street, Brunswick

Western Australia   Edit

Great Victoria Desert (also in South Australia)
Queen Victoria Street, Fremantle, Western Australia
Queen Victoria Street, Leonora, Western Australia
Victoria Park, Perth, Western Australia

---

Double post auto-merged: December 14, 2020, 02:19:40 AM

---

Australia's 10 most-common street names | Nectar Mortgages (https://www.nectarmortgages.com.au/2018/05/15/australias-10-most-common-street-names/)

Australia's ten most popular street names. Among them Victoria St, King St, Queen St and William St (after William IV, and Elizabeth Streets.

@Curryong, Thank you for the geographic locations in Australia that are named after Queen Victoria.   

Queen Victoria was so popular in Canada, during the process of Confederation, *Victorialand* and *Victorialia* were among the alternative suggestions as to what the name of the new Dominion should be

In 1894 before her arrival to the wedding of Ernest Louis of Hesse and Princess Victoria Melita, Queen Victoria spent time in Italy. She saw Michelangelo's sculpture of David. She went to the Villa Medici.

McGill Universitys bronze statue of Queen Victoria is a cast of a marble version that stands in front of Kensington Palace, UK. The current home of Prince William, Kate & family. Montreals cast of the Mother of Confederation was unveiled in 1900

https://twitter.com/Canadian_Crown/status/1355201599518466054?s=20.

Queen Victoria was taken with Alexander Graham Bell's invention of the telephone she became the first European monarch to own one.       

Victoria founded the Berlin Industrial Art Museum.     
She was one of the organizers of the 1872 Industrial Art Exhibition.

Quote from: Curryong on February 27, 2020, 02:26:11 AM
defensive because she hadn't presented her Fritz and the Prussian royal house with a faultless physical specimen and annoyance because her son's arm didn't respond to treatment.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Vicky had also suffered from "Victorian prudery" during her pregnancy and perhaps because of that, hadn't been examined much. (becuase she found it difficult to talk about the physicals aspects of pregnancy). so the birth went wrong and poor Willy ended up with the damaged arm.  I havne't read anything about her in ages.. due to not being able to go to libraries for the past year..  any opnions?

Yes, had Wilhelm been born even fifty years later there would almost certainly have been an internal examination of his mother in those last weeks of pregnancy. God knows how Victoria managed nine without any complications. She and her babies were exceptionally lucky.

The trouble was that Willie wasn?t even in a breech position, which while difficult would have allowed the doctors some leeway. Instead he seems to have manoeuvred himself into lying sideways, with his back against the entry to the womb. Nowadays the doctors would have immediately scrubbed up to prepare for a Caesarian birth. Not possible of course in the 1850s.

What was worse, for several hours Berlin?s most brilliant Professor of Obstetrics was uncontactable. He finally arrived (brought by urgent message) to find the other doctors in a panic and preparing for a dead baby while Vicky (a tiny woman) was terribly tired having suffered agonies for many hours. Anyway, under this man?s supervision they tried one more time and literally, by pushing, pulling and manipulation, managed to drag the half-dead baby out with the use of forceps, which unfortunately damaged Willie?s arm and shoulder.

Again the damage could have been fixed today with a couple of operations, but in those days they tried all sorts of treatments like electric ?spasms? and putting his arm into the warm blood of a newly killed deer. No success, hardly surprisingly.

Oh no! A transverse position obviously made this even worse for mother and child. They're both very fortunate to have survived.

I was thinking more (from what I can remember, perhaps it was on some TV programme) that Vicky herself was prudish.. didn't want to talk about her pregnancy or be examined..

Quote from: Amabel2 on April 02, 2021, 11:17:32 PM
I was thinking more (from what I can remember, perhaps it was on some TV programme) that Vicky herself was prudish.. didn't want to talk about her pregnancy or be examined..

She may have been, in connection with her first child. However, I?ve never read that she was especially prudish in comparison to her mother, who didn?t like much to do with babies at all! Both Vicky and Alice breast-fed their babies, which Queen Victoria found disgusting. She called one of the calves at Windsor, part of the royal herd, Alice, in response! Also, both daughters were very interested in nursing and explored medical matters which Queen Vic apparently found rather unseemly.

Victoria also had a prolapsed womb, which was only discovered after her death, so she obviously wasn?t given an internal examination at any point in between having nine babies. I can?t see her consenting to an internal examination anyway.

---

Double post auto-merged: April 03, 2021, 01:35:01 AM

---

Quote from: TLLK on April 02, 2021, 10:38:58 PM
Oh no! A transverse position obviously made this even worse for mother and child. They're both very fortunate to have survived.

Wilhelm was a rather difficult character for much of his life. Perhaps this was the first sign of things to come!

Queen Victoria had a royal visitor from abroad in 1844. The King of Saxony came in June 1844. She gave him the Breakfast Room and the room next to it in Buckingham Palace for accommodations.

Victoria didn?t go to Balmoral following Albert?s death. Not straight after Albert?s death anyway. Albert died in mid December at Windsor, and even for a grieving widow a wintry few months spent in the Scottish Highlands would have been too much. She and her Household could have been trapped by snowdrifts up there with no way of returning to London if she had to. She stayed at Windsor for a short while and then retreated to Osborne on the Isle of Wight.

Our Queen however usually spends from late July to early October at Balmoral, so a visit beginning a month or two earlier wouldn?t be too much of a change. It?s Spring coming into summer and, although brisk, the weather shouldn?t be too bad. And these days a helicopter can take royals and officials back to London in a very short amount of time.

True, it was a 4 x 4 months/per year between the two places.

Quote from: wannable on May 15, 2021, 11:18:19 AM
True, it was a 4 x 4 months/per year between the two places.

What does that mean? Victoria didn?t spend four four month holidays in both Osborne and Balmoral per year, if by ?two places? you mean those two private homes. She wouldn?t have had time to do anything else with her life!

Quote from: Curryong on May 15, 2021, 05:43:19 AM
Victoria didn?t go to Balmoral following Albert?s death. Not straight after Albert?s death anyway. Albert died in mid December at Windsor, and even for a grieving widow a wintry few months spent in the Scottish Highlands would have been too much. She and her Household could have been trapped by snowdrifts up there with no way of returning to London if she had to. She stayed at Windsor for a short while and then retreated to Osborne on the Isle of Wight.

Our Queen however usually spends from late July to early October at Balmoral, so a visit beginning a month or two earlier wouldn?t be too much of a change. It?s Spring coming into summer and, although brisk, the weather shouldn?t be too bad. And these days a helicopter can take royals and officials back to London in a very short amount of time.

I?m agreed with you,@Curryong

Quote from: wannable on May 15, 2021, 11:18:19 AM
True, it was a 4 x 4 months/per year between the two places.

I don?t think so

According to Britannica Encylopedia it's a yes, 4 months in each Isle/Balmoral per year.

Quote from: wannable on May 15, 2021, 11:18:19 AM
True, it was a 4 x 4 months/per year between the two places.

Are you referring to Queen Victoria or Queen Elizabeth? And neither monarch spent/spends four months four times a year between anywhere. 4 times 4 is 16. There are only 12 months in a year.

Quote from: wannable on May 15, 2021, 03:42:25 PM
According to Britannica Encylopedia it's a yes, 4 months in each Isle/Balmoral per year.

And this post above makes no sense either. Balmoral in Scotland isn?t on an island. England isn?t a separate island to Scotland and Wales. The only Isles are the British Isles comprising the mainland, a few islands around it and the part of Ireland that is now Northern Island. Osborne is on the Isle of Wight but Elizabeth doesn?t go there.

Queen Elizabeth has never lived at Osborne, if that was the other ?place? you were referring to. Edward VII regarded it as surplus to requirements and palmed it off after his mother?s death to the Admiralty. Osborne hasn?t  been a royal home since 1902.

Quote from: Curryong on May 15, 2021, 01:12:16 PM
What does that mean? Victoria didn?t spend four four month holidays in both Osborne and Balmoral per year, if by ?two places? you mean those two private homes. She wouldn?t have had time to do anything else with her life!

She did rathter spend a lot of time in Balmoral, forcing her PMs to travel all the way up there to see her, and while she did her duty, she still spent a lot of time at leisure....

As I said according to Britannia encyclopedia, every year Victoria would spend:

4 months Isle
4 months Balmoral

Lol with the confusion.

And yes Amabel, according to Royal family website, she later on spent much more time at Balmoral, but initially the above.

Balmoral isn't an island. 

4 months at each different place, IOW one place called Balmoral, Scotland, the other place at the isle in south of England.

4 months at B
4 months at I
Per year.

:sarcastic:

Quote
She balked at performing the ceremonial functions expected of the monarch and withdrew to Balmoral and Osborne four* months out of every year, heedless of the inconvenience and strain this imposed on ministers.

Footnote: 4 months at Balmoral (Scotland) + 4 months at Osborne House, Isle of Wight.

Victoria - Widowhood | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Victoria-queen-of-United-Kingdom/Widowhood)

Image google satelite maps of both sites to follow IF there is still confusion.

I know the British Isles very well thanks, including England and Scotland. And the facts of Queen Victoria?s life, so I don?t need reference to encyclopaedias.

And the only ?confusion? was due to your referring to Islands within England and Scotland and posting that someone, presumably Victoria, though you didn?t make that clear, spent 4 times 4 months a year in two places, which again you didn?t specify. As I pointed out, four times four is sixteen, which makes no sense in a year which only lasts twelve months.

Yes, Victoria spent about four months at Balmoral every year and four months at Osborne, though not invariably. In her old age there were also long holidays in the South of France. The rest of the time she mostly spent at Windsor. She had never liked BP.

I was using a mathematical shortcut of 4 x 4 with two different places, the denoted places separated by the slash, and slash per year.

Better not.  :blowkiss:

doesn't make sense as there are only 12 months in a year.

Quote from: wannable on May 15, 2021, 11:12:42 PM
4 months at each different place, IOW one place called Balmoral, Scotland, the other place at the isle in south of England.

4 months at B
4 months at I
Per year.

:sarcastic:

the Isle of Wight IS an island just off the south coast of England.

Quote from: Amabel2 on May 16, 2021, 07:48:38 PM
doesn't make sense as there are only 12 months in a year.

That is correct, 4 months at Balmoral + 4 months at Isle of Wight = 8 months.

Here's a high technology satelite photograph of the Isle of Wight.

(https://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=dU9p6yrglxJoYn8EwWzCkmikFKvSpUacmwWUvMDJhQ_yRhKuxyWPP8ji8UK_8RR0U6D9xhMyNrhW3tWiu3mM_VN1xKbFCbgNzwEwrZKP5fx6aj1b-rMB07rFZftVH7ajYI_SZvkZdxx_i7uk1Mt-jkchCac6D6fQZaVB-RNKg2uDwslpWs06M26v)

Prince Louis of Battenberg, Marquess of Milford Haven was born on the 35th birthday of Queen Victoria.

Queen Victoria wrote a letter to King Eyamba and asked him to stop his slave trading.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-57156148

Queen Victoria in her State Carriage   
Antique 1854 engraving, Queen Victoria of England in Her State Stock Photo - Alamy (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-queen-victoria-in-her-state-carriage-134323984.html)

From Royal Musings by Marlene Koenig, one of my most favourite bloggers. How Queen Victoria (and the Duchess of Cambridge) helped her second cousin Frederica of Hanover flee her Austrian home and marry a commoner, a man she had loved for years, in spite of the opposition of her parents and siblings and other royals.

Victoria?s son, Prince Leopold had wished to marry Frederica but he generously assisted the couple to marry as well. Morganatic marriages were regarded with horror on the Continent of Europe but for Victoria love ruled! Especially if she liked the couple. Morganatic marriages were not a part of British culture, and with Victoria?s help the groom, Baron Alfons von Pawel- Rammingen, was naturalised as a Briton in 1880. 

Royal Musings: Frederica of Hanover: A Passionate & Obstinate Princess (Part 2) (http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2021/06/frederica-of-hanover-passionate_30.html)

Yes the school that's named after her, is near where I live

Queen Victoria did her utmost for this couple and eventually gave Frederica away at her wedding. She was prepared to go the extra mile for Prince Eddy and Helene too, until it was hopeless due to the determination of Helene?s father to disallow her religious conversion and the marriage.

Canada's 1842 Queen Victoria portrait has been saved from 4 fires. In Montreal from rioting that burned parliament & then a hotel fire, both in 1849. In Quebec City from the 1854 Legislature fire, & lastly from the inferno that destroyed Canada's parliament in 1916.

https://twitter.com/Canadian_Crown/status/1429799352462151685?s=20

Why did Queen Victoria propose to Prince Albert?   
The Royal Wedding Of Queen Victoria & Prince Albert! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZUDAAWsGVQ)

Because she loved him. Do you mean, why wasn?t it the other way round? She had to do the proposing because she was of higher rank, as a reigning monarch. Albert wasn?t even an heir, just a second son.

Queen Victoria, the nagging wife: Prince Albert's revealing letters tell about the 'selfish' Queen | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10018695/Queen-Victoria-nagging-wife-Prince-Alberts-revealing-letters-tell-selfish-Queen.html)

Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on September 23, 2021, 08:50:39 AM
Queen Victoria, the nagging wife: Prince Albert's revealing letters tell about the 'selfish' Queen | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10018695/Queen-Victoria-nagging-wife-Prince-Alberts-revealing-letters-tell-selfish-Queen.html)

Albert, who was a very cool rational individual, was a great contrast to his wife, who was emotional and fiery. He made a point of listing her faults and reproving her for them, whereas Victoria would probably have enjoyed a noisy quarrel followed by a passionate reunion. That was not Albert?s way. He preferred to communicate by letter during disagreements. Two very different personalities.

He was a cold fish..  but Victoria was pretty awful in her tantrums .  Not sure which I'd prefer

Well, of course Victoria adhered to the ethos of their day, that husband and father knew best as much as she could. She must have felt like bursting sometimes. I?m not sure writing ?reasoned? critical memorandums to your spouse when they want to have things out with you is the best way to go! However, most of the time Victoria submitted to Albert?s will and the couple were happy with each other and in their family life.

The more I read about Victoria, I become convinced that she was a little bit crazy at times..  perhaps she  had a naturally very emotional temperament and because of her social position people had to give in to her.  But i've nver liked Albert.  He was a cold fish

Quote from: Amabel2 on September 23, 2021, 03:47:05 PM
The more I read about Victoria, I become convinced that she was a little bit crazy at times..  perhaps she  had a naturally very emotional temperament and because of her social position people had to give in to her.  But i've nver liked Albert.  He was a cold fish

What do you think made Prince Albert a cold fish?

I don?t think anything MADE Albert a ?cold fish?. IMO that was his natural temperament from boyhood. Serious-minded, cool, logical. In many ways he resembled the stereotypical German Professor type of the time. However, it?s worth noting that, especially when his children were small it was Albert who romped with them, had them on his back on the nursery floor and played games with them later on, not Victoria. I do think his reactions to women including his wife were as a result of the very louche behaviour of his father and brother though.

At a young age Albert and his brother Ernest no longer had their mother Louise. Might the absence of his mother made Albert slightly bitter?

I?ve got a question for LF (and everyone else if they like) In what circumstances could Victoria have been proclaimed Queen in 1837 (and she was) but be off the throne and no longer sovereign by 1838? ? And would still be called Majesty and Queen Victoria, though not a reigning monarch. (Not by a scandal or anything she did herself.)

Quote from: Curryong on September 26, 2021, 02:47:37 AM
I?ve got a question for LF (and everyone else if they like) In what circumstances could Victoria have been proclaimed Queen in 1837 (and she was) but be off the throne and no longer sovereign by 1838? ? And would still be called Majesty and Queen Victoria, though not a reigning monarch. (Not by a scandal or anything she did herself.)

only if Adelaide had been pregnant and produced an heir..

 Right! It would have been quite bizarre actually because Victoria could not be demoted once she was proclaimed. Fortunately this did not occur.

The relevant Sections of the 1830 Regency Act below, per Wikki, but still?

?Section 1 vested the regency in Victoria's mother, the Duchess of Kent, if Victoria became queen while under 18, with the title "Regent of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland". The regent was to have all the powers of a monarch, except those prohibited by section 10. The regency would end when Victoria became 18 or if Queen
Adelaide gave birth to a child of King William after his death.

Section 2 required the Privy Council to proclaim Victoria's accession to the throne, and modified the oath of allegiance by adding to the end the words "Saving the Rights of any Issue of His late Majesty King William the Fourth which may be born of His late Majesty's Consort". This version of the oath was to be used "until Parliament shall otherwise order".

Sections 3, 4 and 5 were to apply if, after King William's death and Victoria's accession, Queen Adelaide gave birth to his posthumous child. In that event the child would become monarch, Queen Adelaide was to become regent, the Privy Council was to proclaim the accession of the new sovereign "without delay", both Houses of Parliament were to assemble, and the laws concerning the demise of the Crown were to apply as though Queen Victoria had died and the new monarch was her heir.?

So it does appear from this that a  situation would arise in which Queen Adelaide would act as Regent, a ?dead? Queen Victoria would go on living but no longer as monarch and King William?s posthumous baby would become the new King or Queen.
I get the feeling that as the years went on Queen Victoria would be granted a title on her own as a royal Duchess, just to simplify things. Then, if and when she married Albert she would settle in Germany as his wife and a Princess of Saxe Coburg.

In theory that could happen in any monarchy where the crown passed to a sibling or nephew or neice...  if the reigning monarch had a wife of child brearing age.  It was very unlikely to have happened since Adelaide's babies had all died or she'd had miscarriage's and William was elderly and ill.

Yes, but it was also apparently regarded as a slight possibility in 1952, in spite of the QM?s age and George VI?s health.

In theory, it can be a possibility in a lot of cases.  Had George Iv remarried after Caroline's death, its possible that in spite of his age and fatness,  he might have gotten a young wife pregnant.. and William would become king and then lose it.  Same thing if Edward VIII had made a conventional marriage adn then suddenly died.. Even if a king is 92 and still unmarried, there is always the slight possibilty that he might marry and get a young wife pregnant...

Yes, look at Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands father, who was in his early sixties when she was born. Wilhelm?s three sons and his first wife were all dead so he contracted a dynastic marriage to Emma of Pyrmont, to her parents? delight. She was only in her twenties when they married and he was over forty years older. It shocked Queen Victoria quite a bit. However men can certainly remain fertile into old age. 

If the Salic Law had been introduced and Victoria could not be the Queen Regnant, then her uncle, King Ernest of Hanover would become King of Great Britain.

Depends on how far back Salic Law was introduced.  The Hanovers were there only because of Electress Sophia, who, obviously, would have not been in the line of succession under Salic Law.   

After medieval times Salic Law didn?t operate in England/Britain, otherwise Mary I, Mary II, Mary Queen of Scots, Elizabeth and Anne wouldn?t have come to their thrones. And the Electress Sophia was regarded as Anne?s heir after the last of Anne?s children, William Duke of Gloucester, died, though Anne wouldn?t allow her to visit to become accustomed to England, Parliament and the rest. Unfortunately for Sophia, she predeceased Anne by a few weeks, and so her son George inherited and became George I of England and Scotland, and King of Hanover as well of course .

Over in Hanover Salic Law did prevail and so while Victoria could become Queen of Great Britain she couldn?t inherit the throne of Hanover. So the eldest surviving of George III?s sons, Ernest ?Scarface? Duke of Cumberland inherited in Hanover, meaning that the British and Hanoverian thrones separated for all time.

I just took a look.  With Salic Law England would have been in a mess starting with the sinking of the White Ship in 1120.  They would have had to go back to Harold Godwinson?s sons which would have stopped Norman England in its tracks.  Likely would have been civil war etc.   

Yes. Henry I was very anxious after the White Ship disaster that he beget another male heir. When that didn?t happen he tried his best to get the Barons to support his  surviving daughter Matilda. However, her cousin Stephen was more popular among them, seized power, was crowned  and became King to a large sector of the nobles, so a terrible Civil War, known as The Anarchy, erupted.

Ultimately though, Matilda?s son Henry II inherited the English throne. In medieval times in England a de facto Salic Law operated, ie, most nobles were very unenthusiastic about female rulers. If possible males (Kings) were preferred. Until Mary I?s accession there?s no evidence of great followings for any female heirs, and Mary I only succeeded IMO because a less eligible female Jane, was involved.

Thing is, under Salic Law, Stephen wouldn?t have been eligible.  He was the grand son of William the Conqueror through his mother.  Likewise Henry 2 wouldn?t have been eligible as the son of Maud. 

The moment William Adelin died and his father was not able to have another son, the Normans would have been done. 

That is true. However as far as their English possessions were concerned the Normans, Angevins, Plantagenets etc didn?t seem to followSalic Law that strictly, except when it suited them, and as far as Matilda/Maud was concerned her arrogance put a lot of the barons off. The Angevins/Plantagenets had many generations, for instance, of the throne passing from father to oldest son with no trouble at all.

In England the so-called Semi-Salic version of succession order stipulates (care of Wiki) that firstly all-male descendance is applied, including all collateral male lines; but if all such lines are extinct, then the closest female agnate (such as a daughter) of the last male holder of the property inherits, and after her, her own male heirs according to the Salic order. In other words, the female closest to the last incumbent is "regarded as a male" for the purposes of inheritance and succession. This had the effect of following the closest extant blood line (at least in the first instance) and not involving any more distant relatives. The closest female relative might be a child of a junior son, as with Victoria.

From the Middle Ages, there was another system of succession, known as cognatic male primogeniture, which actually fulfills apparent stipulations of the original Salic law and seems to have been followed in England at times: succession is allowed also through female lines, but excludes the females themselves in favour of their sons. For example, a grandfather, without sons, is succeeded by a son of his daughter, (as with Matilda/Maud and her son Henry II) when the daughter in question is still alive. Or an uncle, with no children of his own, is succeeded by a son of his sister, when the sister in question is still alive (though there aren?t any English examples AFAIK in royal medieval history of the latter example.)

The wedding dress of Princess Victoria in 1858   
Wedding dress of Victoria, Princess Royal - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aui5GRHnu4w)

In 1871 Queen Victoria opened the Royal Albert Hall on March 29. She limited herself to just one sentence.

Prince Albert was given full access to Cabinet and other State papers. From 1841 onwards he attended audiences which Queen Victoria held with her ministers.

Queen Victoria and Prince Albert's daughter Princess Helen was the founding president of the Royal School of Needlework.

On this day, May 23, 1819, Queen Victoria of England was born at Kensington Palace in London, England.   
She received the names of Alexandrina Victoria. If she could have had one more middle name, I could see Charlotte being used in honor of her grandmother Queen Charlotte.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on May 24, 2022, 10:25:55 PM
On this day, May 23, 1819, Queen Victoria of England was born at Kensington Palace in London, England.   
She received the names of Alexandrina Victoria. If she could have had one more middle name, I could see Charlotte being used in honor of her grandmother Queen Charlotte.

They had a lot of trouble with naming of this child. At the christening ceremony a very sulky Prince Regent refused a suggestion from his brother that the names Georgina (after himself) and Charlotte (the name of his dead daughter as well as his mother) be used. He snarled at other suggestions. Tsar Alexander had graciously agreed to be sponsor to the baby so Alexandrina had to come first. The Prince Regent was aggrieved about that. The Duchess of Kent, the baby?s mother, was almost in tears. Eventually George said ?Name her after her mother!?. Victoire, anglicised to Victoria (not a great favourite of his) and so it was done!

Queen Victoria did not seem to have trouble with the naming of her children.   
One example is the first middle name of the Princess Royal which was Adelaide. Adelaide was after Queen Victoria's aunt, Queen Adelaide, the spouse of King William IV.

Well, of course for Victoria there weren?t the resentments, jealousies and dislike that permeated the attitude of the Prince Regent to his younger brother having a healthy baby. The Duke of Kent had a living child while George?s only legitimate offspring was dead, thanks to a bungling doctor. By the time George IV was dying he knew that it was odds on that Victoria would be the heir after his brother William Duke of Clarence. And neither he nor his brother William were overly fond of the widowed Duchess of Kent.

Both Victoria and Albert had masses of relatives they could name their children after, though it?s notable that Victoria was determined to begin as she meant to go on with her name and her beloved?s chosen for their two eldest children. What is a bit strange though is the many non-traditional royal names that they used for later children, Louise, Beatrice, Helena for example and none of her sons bore Hanoverian first names like George, William or Frederick.

Arthur was named after the much respected Iron Duke of Wellington, Alfred probably after Alfred the Great. Leopold was named after the couple?s adored Uncle, King of the Belgians and widower of the dead Charlotte of Wales.

It?s rather strange to think that had Princess Charlotte and her baby son lived, Victoria would have been a minor royal, a footnote in history, though she may well have still married her cousin Albert and produced a large family.

Some suggestions about the origins of the names of Victoria and Albert?s children.

Victoria Adelaide Mary Louisa--Victoria, obvious; Adelaide, for Queen Adelaide (consort of William IV and very close to QV); Mary (for the Duchess of Gloucester, perhaps?); Louisa--Prince Albert's mother.

Albert Edward--Albert, obvious; Edward, after QV's father

Alice Maud Mary--Alice and Maud--old English names Alice was the favourite girls name of Lord Melbourne, V?s first Prime Minister.; Mary--see above

Alfred Ernest Albert--Alfred, old English name, Alfred the Great; Ernest, after PA's father and brother; Albert.

Helena Augusta Victoria--Helena, after the Duchess d? Orleans, her godmother, Augusta after one of QV's aunts perhaps;

Louise Caroline Alberta--Louise, after PA's mother; Alberta, after PA

Arthur William Patrick Albert--Arthur, old English name and after the Duke of Wellington; William after William IV perhaps; Patrick, most likely for Ireland

Leopold George Duncan Albert--Leopold, after King Leopold of the Belgians; George, long connection to England and Hannover; Duncan for Scotland, Macbeth.

Beatrice Mary Victoria Feodore--Beatrice, some suggested historic origin or Dante reference; Feodore for QV's half-sister.

Victoria to King Leopold referencing Beatrice?s name ? "She is to be called Beatrice, a fine old name, borne by three of the Plantaganet princesses, and her other names will be Mary (after poor Aunt Mary), Victoria (after mamma and Vicky, who with Fritz Wilhelm (her husband)  are to be the sponsors, and Feodore (the Queen's half sister)."

Queen Victoria sent a bust of her husband Prince Albert to her great-grandson Prince Albert Frederick of York as a christening present.

On November 1, 1858 Queen Victoria gave a proclamation which declared that India was a British dominion. This declaration was ratified by the government of India Act in Parliament.   

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on January 24, 2023, 08:40:59 PM

In November 1840, shortly after the birth of the Princess Royal, Prince Albert   
was given a key to Queen Victoria's boxes of government papers.     
Did the fact that he had the key displease some government officials?

The reaction was probably a bit mixed. Albert was not particularly popular especially among Whigs, the party of Lord Melbourne, Victoria?s first PM. Albert was Germanic and very serious-minded. On the other hand, the Queen was a female and therefore the weaker vessel in comparison to males.

Albert was supporting his wife after their baby?s birth and would be able to advise her. Tories like Sir Robert Peel thought a lot of Prince Albert and felt he had a good grasp of issues of the day. So, on the whole, there weren?t wholesale objections.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on February 03, 2023, 09:19:16 PM

Did Queen Victoria resent her daughter-in-law Princess Alexandra's Danish loyalties?

I don?t think she regarded a Danish family connection with much favour anyway, as she would have preferred that her eldest son Bertie had married a German. However Alexandra?s beauty won the day. Impossible that Bertie would have agreed to marry someone plain!

I think she did rather resent it when Alexandra?s views clashed with her (and the BRF?s) consistent support of Prussia. Her eldest daughter Vicky was of course married to the Prussian Crown Prince Friedrich.

That led no doubt to some awkward moments on family occasions after Schleswig/ Holstein was invaded by Prussia soon after Alexandra?s wedding to the Prince of Wales (Bertie). Danes regarded the Duchies as theirs. Victoria was always admiring of the simplicity and closeness of the DRF, however.

The lake doesn?t appear to have been that deep and Albert swam to the bank anyway, where Victoria lent a hand. And of course Albert caught a cold from the mishap. That man?s immune system seems to have been fragile at best!

Nevertheless, it?s true that if Albert?s subsequent cold had turned to pneumonia, in those days a killer, history might well have been changed. Left a widow of 22 with a baby daughter, Victoria would have entered into a period of protracted mourning. Would she have married again in another six or seven years? I do think it likely in spite of her overpowering feelings for Albert.

She would probably have been advised to do so given the parlous nature of the succession. No-one wanted another Prss Charlotte situation to happen with Vicky (who of course would not have married Fritz and become Kaiserin of Germany in that situation) and so some other Prince would have become Consort, almost certainly from Germany, and another family would have been born. Alternate history is a fascinating subject!

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on February 26, 2023, 09:25:14 PM

Queen Victoria was the only child of Prince Edward, Duke of Kent.   
However did she have siblings?   
The Siblings of Queen Victoria - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OglAFx1t7I)

Victoria had half-siblings from her mother?s unhappy first marriage. Victoire had two children by that husband, Emich Charles Prince of Leiningen, a daughter Feodora, whom Victoria was close to until her half-sister?s death in 1872, and son Karl Friedrich, who lived in London with his mother and stepfather and family for a while, then, as he was heir to his dead father?s estate, went back to Germany to resume his education. He was the third Prince of Leiningen as his half brother from his father?s first marriage had died in childhood.. These facts are very well known.

Queen Victoria the *** addict? Queen Victoria, for example, was a great fan of Vin Mariani (along with many other 19th century notables and including two Popes). This product, banned in 1914, was a fortified wine made with extracts of coca leaf. It was said to be ?most uplifting?, mainly because of the ***.

The Illustrious (& Outrageous) History of Vin Mariani - Proofdrinks (https://proofdrinks.com/illustrious-outrageous-history-vin-mariani/)

what is this nonsense.  How could Victoria be responsible for anything that happened in Russia

 Vitoria was no admirer of the Romanov dynasty partly because she regarding the country as half civilised. Queen Victoria didn?t want any of her granddaughters to marry into the Romanov dynasty. She was terribly disappointed when Ella married the Grand Duke Serge and said, with regard to Alix several times, that she trembled at the dangers of that shaky throne.Although she didn?t mind Nicky or Alexander II personally, I hardly think any actions she took would have made any difference.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on June 23, 2023, 10:06:32 PM

In Victoria A Life A. N. Wilson wrote:   
The Queen's loathing of hot rooms, and her indifference to the cold, became unrestrained during 
her years of widowhood, and those who visited Balmoral in particular, were in danger of feeling cold.
   
  :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr: :brr:

Yes, in Victoria?s reign courtiers, relatives and Govt Ministers suffered alike. She couldn?t stand being warm in overheated rooms at all throughout her adult life. When Albert felt unwell there were roaring fires in his dressing room where he would sit and do some work, but otherwise Victoria would order windows opened to let in air in all the rooms she was in, unless rain was pouring down. It was one of her things and her family knew it. However Albert was not a robust man and he has my heartfelt sympathy.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on October 10, 2023, 10:51:01 PM

How high were the chances of Victoria becoming Queen?     
How High Were the Chances of Victoria Becoming Queen? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuYN3js2zmc)

That depended on exactly when that question was being asked, I suppose. The royal race after Prss Charlotte?s premature death in childbirth meant that three of the middle aged sons of George III, the Dukes of Clarence, Kent and Cambridge, hurried to the altar.

Edward Duke of Kent was quite high up in the line of succession anyway, when considering that his eldest brother the Prince Regent (later King George IV) and his older brother the Duke of York were both childless after Prss Charlotte?s death and unlikely to produce legitimate heirs afterwards. Only the Duke of Clarence was in the way. Then her father the Duke of Kent died while she was still a baby.

On the other hand, after the other older brother the Duke of Clarence (?Silly Billy?) married Priss Adelaide and started producing a few daughters when Victoria was still very young, Victoria?s chances went down. However when all Adelaide of Clarence?s baby daughters died Victoria was winning the race.

By the time she was about eleven it was clear that King William and Queen Adelaide would not have any live heirs the road ahead to Victoria becoming Queen was certain.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on November 01, 2023, 09:34:26 PM

According to Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany's biographer, Charlotte Zeepvat,   
he was first diagnosed with hemophilia in 1858 or 1859.

Yes Zeepvat is excellent, but really when Leopold was a very young child the doctors didn?t know what was wrong. They said he had weak veins. Most of the few studies of haemophilia (a very rare condition anyway) that were around had been published in medical journals in Germany. I believe Albert consulted medical professionals in Germany. Once it was confirmed by various doctors Pr Albert then informed Queen Victoria, but what she understood of it isn?t really clear and she didn?t know how what she always referred to as ?this terrible disease? had ?entered? her family. Nowadays it?s usually put down to a rogue gene transmitted to Victoria by her middle aged father at her conception.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on January 01, 2024, 10:31:45 PM

In 1828 the Duke of Orleans was suggested as a possible husband for Princess Victoria, but he was a Catholic.

Suggested by whom? A newspaper? As far as I have ever read the only two males that were in close contention for the role of consort to Victoria were her cousins Albert of Saxe Coburg Gotha and his older brother Ernst. That was because from childhood it was decided between Prince Leopold (later King of the Belgians) and his sister Victoire (Victoria?s mother) that their two nephews were eminently suitable. There was a slight bias towards Albert from the beginning as he was a serious-minded and studious boy in comparison to his brother. It was believed by both that this would suit Victoria.

The very young Victoria enjoyed her brief period of freedom between 1837 and late 1839 as she adored dancing and late nights (not an Albert thing) and especially liked being whirled around the ballroom by the dashing heir to the Russian throne, the future Alexander II (very handsome as a young man, as was Albert) when he visited London. However after she met Albert for the second time in 1839 that was it for Victoria. The British people weren?t exactly thrilled however. Albert was not wealthy, came from an obscure Duchy and was considered by many courtiers who met him as rather stiff and Germanic.

Quote from: LouisFerdinand on April 07, 2024, 08:57:46 PM

Princess Louise, Duchess of Argyll made a bust of her brother Prince Arthur. 
http://www.rct.uk/collection/31662/prince-arthur-1850-1942

And a statue of her mother. Louise did paint but she was a talented sculptor and that was more her thing. I wonder whether she ever sculpted a bust of her husband?