Carole and Mike Chat

[wannable]

It's clickbate, in the UK people are allowed to sell with mortgage or tax debt, you sell it with all the good bad and ugly. The tax debt was sold together with Party Pieces to James Sinclair.

[Curryong]

It's clickbate, in the UK people are allowed to sell with mortgage or tax debt, you sell it with all the good bad and ugly. The tax debt was sold together with Party Pieces to James Sinclair.

It?s not exactly a great look to have the Prss of Wales parents facing bankruptcy for several years as they quite obviously were. Never happened to the Spencers!

A good chunk of the Middletons? money was tied up in Party Pieces. I very much doubt that Carole and Mike came out of this with huge amounts of cash. Not millionaires, even on paper, any more. And if James?s latest pet food venture goes belly up as former ventures of his have, then PP/his parents won?t be bailing him out,

[Curryong]

It's clickbate, in the UK people are allowed to sell with mortgage or tax debt, you sell it with all the good bad and ugly. The tax debt was sold together with Party Pieces to James Sinclair.

And I?m not so sure about this assertion of yours that Sinclair is going to take over all the debts including the govt loan.
From the article upthread I linked on the subject of Party Pieces going belly up.

?It?s understood the sale to Mr Sinclair did not include all Party Pieces? liabilities? end Quote.

[wannable]

Who are the Spencers? Are they involved with Party Pieces?

And Yes any UK citizen can sell/buy with a mortgage or tax debt. You just have to give that piece of debt to whom you own it once you sell/buy.

A dip from GBP 4.5Million to 3.5Million per year is not bankruptcy. They sold PP with vendor debt and government loan. There latest Financial statement by law in order to sell is dated

05 May 2023   Confirmation statement made on 30 April 2023 with no updates   
View PDF Confirmation statement made on 30 April 2023 with no updates - link opens in a new window - 3 pages(3 pages)

In order to legally sell the business with what I call the good bad and ugly.

To make it simple, most of the people in the planet will purchase a 'used' home with the good bad and ugly of that property. If the owner has an active loan with a bank, the moneys of the seller will be divided between what the seller owns the bank, the rest belongs to the seller. Same with Carole and Micheal's business, although the past historical of PP in Company House, is majorly hers.

[Curryong]

PP was earning 3.2 million in 2022. That in itself does not mean bankruptcy it is true. However, it all depends upon the company?s outgoings doesn?t it, and what debts were being held over from the year before.

There were huge signs that PP had been on the decline for years before Covid finally finished it off. The venture in the US didn?t pay off, Amazon and other carriers were cutting deep into previous profits for years. Carole was asking for extra time to pay from suppliers for at least two years before the sale. The Middletons had to get the loan from the govt to help it limp through the few months remaining before it was sold. It was an insolvent business at that time.

You?re not seriously suggesting I hope, that PP?s business was a thriving and healthy concern when Sinclair bought it, because it quite obviously wasn?t, for all sorts of reasons including the above. And I repeat, a large chunk of Middleton money was invested in their business. And I also repeat that if James?s dog food business does not do well, as several of his former short lived businesses have not, then he won?t be able to rely on mum and dad helping him out with any large loan.

And you know very well who the aristocratic Spencer family are, Peers for over three hundred years, and never bankrupt.

[wannable]

I didn't say it was thriving, but it wasn't declared officially and legally bankrupt as you suggested.

The Middleton's did very well with Party Pieces, founded 1992-2023.

Charles Spencer has had to sell family jewellery to break even, 2010 he sold a lot worth GBP 21Million, this past March 2023 he had to sell a few other pieces, still available, no buyers.

The 150-year-old Spencer-Churchill necklace is a family heirloom that illustrates the elite social connections of one of the most prominent English families to date. Some of the most notable names that are linked to this piece of jewelry, and the family that created it, include Queen Victoria, the Duke of Wellington, Winston Churchill, the Vanderbilts, and Princess Diana. Now, the piece is available for acquisition at Hancock's London

[Curryong]

No, PP wasn?t officially bankrupt but it was as near to it as you can get without having it declared.

And Charles Spencer had to deal with death duties after his father died, the tax which has been like a lode stone around aristocratic family estates for generations. As for selling jewellery all aristo families have done that for years. There are few balls, virtually no tiara events any more, so they get rid of useless pieces. Running a large house and landed estate is very different from running a party supplies business, but the Spencers are still a very wealthy family.

Whereas I would guess, though I don?t know for sure, that Carole and Mike Middleton?s money is seriously depleted from what it was when Kate married, and has been that way for some time. 

[wannable]

All of these people, the Middleton's and the Spencers are living very comfortably in mansions, a farmhouse, a stately home.

I don't know what to say about some people with no basis in social media belonging to the sussexsquad identified*, 'pushing' them into some kind of poordom situation, badful thinking.

[Curryong]

All of these people, the Middleton's and the Spencers are living very comfortably in mansions, a farmhouse, a stately home.

I don't know what to say about some people with no basis in social media belonging to the sussexsquad identified*, 'pushing' them into some kind of poordom situation, badful thinking.

I didn?t say the Middletons were desperately poor. I said, and believe, that a large portion of Carole and Mike?s money was tied up in the business, and that the family?s money is now depleted in consequence.

I?m not a member of the Sussex Squad nor do I follow their media. It?s been discussed on several forums that I?m on which discuss people in the public eye, both official and non official. On the big Royal Forum where I?m a member the Middletons situation was discussed and it was agreed that the Middletons would have been impacted. That forum is certainly not pro Sussex.

This Telegraph story mentions ?the brink of bankruptcy?. Is the Telegraph pro Sussex?

?Kate?s family suffers huge blow amid cash struggles
The Middleton business ? which at its height was worth around $50m ? has been sold on the brink of bankruptcy. SUBSCRIBE for full story.?

[wannable]

That is not the Telegraph, that's New Zealand and Australian news using their own clickbate big words.  The latest Middleton/Party Pieces from The Telegraph said that they sold the company.

Princess of Wales's parents' party business saved as buyer found
By Gordon Rayner, Associate Editor
18 May 2023 ? 9:05 am

There is no 'depleted' in the wording of anyone. Almost bankrupcy is not bankrupt, it is when it is official and legally filed.

[wannable]

Princess of Wales's parents' business Party Pieces saved as buyer found


^ He bought it with debt et all.

[Curryong]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=DTWEB_MRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailytelegraph.com.au%2Fentertainment%2Fcelebrity-life%2Froyals%2Fkate-middletons-family-business-sold-amid-cash-struggles%2Fnews-story%2Fef8384f1755e97e07ba49a2f217cf469&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=dynamic-low-control-score&V21spcbehaviour=append

?Depleted? is my own word. I didn?t say I got that from any newspaper but from information about PP and the Middletons that has appeared in media over the last couple of years. I don?t take most of my impressions of PP any situation from Aus or NZ news but from British sources.

If you wish to believe that the Middleton family finances haven?t suffered as a result of the PP struggles of the past three years at least or that a business that was a whisker away from administration was doing well before, then that?s up to you. I do know that the Middletons were looking for buyers for the business for about two years and that a couple of offers dropped out.

[wannable]

That's the Daily Telegraph from Australia.

The Middleton's had a business deal/partners 3, 2 left, 1 stayed, February 2023.  The Advisory group they hired to find a buyer, March 2023. Party Pieces was sold, May 2023.

Too much ado about small businesses that are closing or in PP's case sold because of the Pandemic. They are actually lucky.  More than 85% of small businesses closed for good worldwide due to the pandemic.

[wannable]

The rumoured amount money sold was GBP 29,780,000.00

The value GBP 50,000,000.00

Pandemic, the value lost almost half, 50 minus 20M = 30M...

[Curryong]

Nobody knows how much PP was sold for, nor are we likely to know. Nor do we know what the Middletons were left with in the wash up. One thing is for certain.The Middletons are certainly not in that glowing  position financially that the tabloids made them out to be in 2011, when they were supposedly some sort of financial geniuses/entrepreneurs according to the Fail and other tabloids, something I never believed.

They got hold of a good idea for selling party tatt through mail order when Kate was a child, made it a family business and then struggled after Amazon and other big carriers got into the market. The media vastly inflated the business?s true worth. Their overheads were high and they were reliant on suppliers, whom Carole was pleading with at the end.

[Curryong]

Copy from The Times, (which is behind a paywall.)

The Princess of Wales?s parents took out a coronavirus loan for a children?s party business that will leave the taxpayer facing a loss after the business collapsed this month. Carole and Michael Middleton received a taxpayer-backed loan from NatWest to support the company when lockdowns prevented family gatherings.

Party Pieces, which they established in 1987, has now entered an insolvency process. The bank is owed a balance of ?220,000, according to documents seen by The Times. The taxpayer is liable to pay 80 per cent of any amount owed to NatWest under the terms of the government?s coronavirus business interruption loan scheme.

Party Pieces has now been sold through a so-called pre-pack administration deal to the entrepreneur James Sinclair for ?180,000. The sale proceeds will therefore not be sufficient to pay off the loan in full. The lending is unsecured and will not be given priority over other unsecured creditors such as trade suppliers.

It is understood that Carole Middleton stepped back from the day-to-day running of Party Pieces in 2019. She became a brand ambassador for the business and a new management team was put in place. She remained a director and returned to help run the company?s operations this year to help secure its future. The pandemic led to a decline in sales for Party Pieces that ultimately prompted the owners to call in advisers from the restructuring firm Interpath. Revenues fell from ?4.5 million to ?3.2 million in 2022, and the company made a net loss before tax of ?900,000.

In a report for creditors, the administrators said: ?Management attributed this to the Covid-19 pandemic resulting in reduced social gatherings and a reduction in discretionary spend due to the cost-of-living crisis. This caused constraints on the company?s cash flows. The company was both loss-making and under creditor pressure. In the absence of new funding or a solvent sale, the company was insolvent on a balance sheet and cash flow basis. The existing investors of the company had injected ad hoc funds to meet critical payments and no further funds were available from this source.?

Sinclair?s company Teddy Tastic Bear bought Party Pieces after Interpath approached 175 possible buyers. Interpath received one potentially solvent offer for Party Pieces but found it could not be delivered ?after significant effort?.

Party Pieces held discussions with creditors over its ?tightening liquidity position? but found that there would be no support available to ?defer or deal with the highest-pressure creditors?.

[wannable]

That is more like it.

220K is nothing
1.3 vendor debt is easy

As I said

A bit of perspective. A valuation of PP 20 years ago at 30M, the Australian daily telegraph puts at at 50M to date, do the negative maths, result.

If they move from mansion to grade lll then depleted.

[Curryong]

That is more like it.

220K is nothing
1.3 vendor debt is easy

As I said

A bit of perspective. A valuation of PP 20 years ago at 30M, the Australian daily telegraph puts at at 50M to date, do the negative maths, result.

If they move from mansion to grade lll then depleted.

Well, if you think a net loss before tax of 900,000 pounds is fine, that the business was sold for 180,000 pounds to Sinclair and a bald statement in the article that the company was ?insolvent on a balance sheet and cash flow basis? is great, and that taxpayers will probably be kept waiting to be paid for an unsecured loan, is absolutely fine, then everything in the Middleton bank vaults are no doubt filled with gold nuggets from the Harry Potter Gringotts bank!

[wannable]

It doesn?t matter. The Middleton have always paid their taxes, both are retirement age, they are fine with selling PP, 💯 dedication to their grandchildren.

James Sinclair will do fine with the business. He is perfect buyer. Children friendly.

He purchased it with absolutely all the good bad and ugly. Read the telegraph article I posted. It is peanuts 1.3m vendor debt plus 220k taxpayer loan is nothing. If Carole had asked taxpayer loan of 34m wedding fund and jumped country okay we have a problem.

[wannable]

To be clear and blunt, the Middleton selling their PP is a 'filler', IOW when the digital or press editor fills in the boxes from front page to back, Carole and Mike PP is a small square at the bottom,  to bigger ex royal news brewing, moneys owed in the UK, only UK. Partly because of the economy and a 34M, we see Charles giving away the 250M profit of DOL windfarm and 'gracious acts' like this will still happen. He is a father, he is worried about 6 court tax funded expenses, the UK side, not the other side of the pond expenses. He will contain it IF the ex royal doesn't comply with UK Law. Something the Middleton's have always complied with, if not we would have heard about any illegality taxpayer or tax payment cheating, they've been in the eye of the public for the same amount of time as their daughter Kate. This is IMO based on my friend that works in Fleet Street and hears everything big and small royal related.

[HistoryGirl2]

It doesn?t matter. The Middleton have always paid their taxes, both are retirement age, they are fine with selling PP, 💯 dedication to their grandchildren.

James Sinclair will do fine with the business. He is perfect buyer. Children friendly.

He purchased it with absolutely all the good bad and ugly. Read the telegraph article I posted. It is peanuts 1.3m vendor debt plus 220k taxpayer loan is nothing. If Carole had asked taxpayer loan of 34m wedding fund and jumped country okay we have a problem.

It?s too bad the Middletons have integrity. They could have sold pictures and stories about William and Kate: the early years to a publisher and made a killing! 😂 But in all seriousness,  you?re right, they?re tax payers just like everyone else, only with the quaint fact of having their daughter be the Princess of Wales. If the company didn?t qualify for the loan and they suddenly received it because of their connections, now that would be another kettle of fish.

[wannable]

It would be another kettle of fish, but the point is the parent's have been in the public eye since Kate was age 20 (20 years and counting), the media couldn't find anything terrible about the family, so here we are distracted because they sold the business at past retiring age. Now, half of the grandparenting will be 'public' so to speak with George, Charlotte and Louis (any person in the public catching them a glimpse will notify the media), so it really isn't relax mode, like it will be with the Mathews children and future Middleton (James, Alizee) children.

[HistoryGirl2]

Just comes with the territory. I?m sure at this point, they?re likely used to the scrutiny and let it roll off their backs. No use in trying to fight it.

[wannable]

They never fought it. Nothing to hide, confidence, on their own business, were reported yearly about 6 times/12 months, not bad at all.

The media want's something to happen or not?! Little square bottom right corner.  :teehee:

[wannable]

In this short video James and Pippa Mathews and Carole Middleton leaving the Jordan 2nd reception party.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1664321979476852745

Credit/Source: to twitter user Royal Watcher, @royalnewsss, whom captured it during the Jordan TV live feed.

The Middleton's lived in Jordan for a few years 30plus years ago.

(Perhaps the entire family is there for holidays  :wink: )