A thread to discuss the maternal and paternal ancestors of Catherine Middleton now the Duchess of Cambridge
From the Daily Telegraph 17 November 2010:
MIDDLETON
Peter Francis died peacefully at home on 2nd November after a short illness, aged 90 years. Devoted husband of the late Valerie, father of
four, grandfather of five, aviator, transatlantic sailor and long-time resident of Vernham Dean. Will be greatly missed by his family and
many friends. The Funeral Service has already taken place. For any further enquiries: Camp Hopson Funeral Directors, 01635 522210
Kate's grandfather. I am told this event delayed the announcement of the engagement. :( :(
Very sad. Amazing that this stayed out of the news for so long.
On the bright side, he lived a long and seemingly very happy life.
Who knows? Maybe he was informed of his grand daughter one day being Queen before he passed. That must have been a resounding full-stop to end what must have been an eventful life. :flower:
William and Kate were apparently at his funeral on Friday
The fact that there are no photos of them there really show how the new press rules are working, and also how good they have been at staying out of the limelight...good for them.
Wasn't William in Afghanistan the day before for Remembrance Day?
The funeral was on Friday. PW was in Afghanistan on Sunday, the 14th.
My deepest sympathies to the Middletons. :( At least he had a good innings. I too have since read that this is what delayed the engagement announcement.
My goodness,what an emotional time for Kate and her family.
May he rest in peace :hug:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384740/Royal-Family-Kate-s-grandad-doodlebug-nudger-Newlywed-royal-pays-tribute-pilot-knocked-V1-missiles-course-planes-wing.html
QuotePreviously unseen footage has emerged showing the Duchess of Cambridge and her younger sister Pippa Middleton as bridesmaids at the wedding of their uncle, Gary Goldsmith. The then nine-year-old future royal and her siblings all played key roles at the 1991 nuptials, with a very little James Middleton also appearing as a page boy.
The sweet home video shows the two sisters dressed in matching pastel pink bridesmaid dresses and floral headdresses as they celebrate the big family occasion. Kate, who is referred to as 'Katie' in the footage, can be seen waving and smiling to the camera, and is clearly in her element as she poses next to bride Miranda Foote outside St Peter's Church in Burnham, Buckinghamshire.
Pippa, seven at the time, appears to be slightly less enthusiastic. At one point in the footage, she can be seen pulling her floral headdress of her head – getting her hair caught up in the process. James, meanwhile, is on film chewing on his top hat while the family pose for photos with the newlyweds.
Read more:
Kate Middleton and sister Pippa on video at uncle?s wedding (http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/2017012336014/kate-middleton-bridesmaid-uncle-wedding-video/)
Francis Martineau Lupton (1848-1921) Businessman and Housing Reformer. A brief biography of Catherine?s great-great grandfather.
There are still streets and buildings around Leeds named after the Lupton family, and many reminders of their contribution over the years to the life and improvement of the city: in industry and commerce, in public service, in education, in housing.
Francis (Frank) Martineau Lupton made his mark in the transforming work of slum clearance, helping to lift the city out of Victorian darkness and squalor. But alongside his public and professional work, he had to endure, like so many others, the unsparing personal tragedies of the First World War.
Born into a wealthy family, he had a comfortable, favoured childhood: first at Potternewton Hall, a handsome Queen Anne house, and then at ?Beechwood?, an impressive mansion set in parkland in Elmete Lane, Roundhay. His father Francis was a partner in the family wool business, while his mother Fanny was active in various social causes, particularly women?s education; her aunt was the writer Harriet Martineau, and this family connection gave Frank his second name. He had three younger brothers, all destined to play a part in the city?s life. After study at Leeds Grammar School, he went on to Trinity College, Cambridge.
Frank joined the family business, William Lupton & Sons, at Whitehall Mills, and in his spare time served in the volunteer Leeds Rifles. In 1880, when he was 32, he married Harriet Davis, daughter of the vicar of St John?s Church, Roundhay, near his home. Five children followed, three sons and two daughters, and they moved to a new, handsome house, ?Rockland?, at the top of St Mary?s Road, Newton Park, Chapeltown, built on part of the Lupton estate. But tragedy struck in 1892 when Harriet, just after the birth of their second daughter, caught influenza and died. Frank never remarried. A fearsome housekeeper looked after the house and his five children until his daughters could take over.
Frank entered local politics and was elected a Councillor and then Alderman. He had a particular interest in the housing and welfare of the poor, and as a follower of the social reformer Octavia Hill believed ardently in the need to improve and regenerate inner city areas of working class housing. For 10 years from 1896 he chaired the Council?s Unhealthy Areas Committee, set up with new powers to tackle the ?evil legacy? of the Leeds slums, breeding grounds for disease and death.
Its first major scheme was to clear the notorious York Street and Quarry Hill areas, with their crumbling, dank yards. Inspections had to be made, prices agreed, tenants moved out, the rotting buildings demolished, rehousing organised ? almost four thousand buildings were cleared. Frank led the action, and promoted other more modest schemes, involving selective demolition to create light, air and open spaces, and the regeneration of existing still usable housing. He opposed the Council?s proposal to build flats (?tenements?) for rehousing and this disagreement triggered his resignation as chairman, but he continued as a member, and later chaired the Council?s Improvement and Finance committees ? a long record of dedicated public service.
In 1914 his daughter Olive married a Leeds solicitor, Richard Middleton ? a union which has famously linked the family story to the ancestry of the present Duchess of Cambridge. But this happy event was overshadowed by the outbreak of war. All three of Frank?s sons went to the Front. One by one they were killed in action: Maurice, his middle son, in the trenches of Lille in 1915; Lionel, his youngest son, at the Battle of the Somme in 1916, having returned to the Front after being wounded; and Francis, his eldest son, in early 1917, after an agonising wait when he had been declared missing. All three are buried in France.
Frank, a quiet and unassuming man, was said to have borne his losses stoically, but the light had gone out of his life. After the war he let his house ?Rockland? at a nominal rent for use as a home for the children of soldiers and sailors lost in the war and moved with his daughter to a smaller house. He died soon after, in 1921, and was buried at St John?s Church, Roundhay.
It was said at his funeral that he had ?brought sunshine to the fetid slums of Leeds?, but his own life lay in shadow.
Thank you for posting this informative piece. I enjoyed reading it and was struck by how altruistic this man was...it make sense to the expression about one's deeds living on. His live on in a very inspirational way.
Francis Lupton?s mother was quite the woman:
The Duchess of Cambridge's great-great-great grandmother was a champion of girls and women?s health issues and education
Frances Greenhow was the honorary secretary and driving force behind the Yorkshire Ladies' Council of Education from 1871 to 1885.
She also chaired committee meetings of the Leeds Ladies' Educational Association that promoted the taking of university local examinations by young women and in 1875 chaired a meeting of both organisations to form the committee that raised funds to start Leeds Girls' High School which opened a year later. She was the school council's vice-president until 1891.
The Ladies Council provided lectures for women on health and nursing and she was instrumental in establishing a school of cookery in 1874 which became the Yorkshire Training School of Cookery.
The Duchess of Cambridges great-great-grandfather John William Middleton Esq. President of the Leeds Law Society
Pic: Twitter (https://twitter.com/cambridges4all/status/1298000720311001088?s=20)
^^^
Catherines great-grandfather Richard Noel Middleton, great-great grandfather John William Middleton, Esq and great-great-great grandfather William Middleton were solicitors. The family law firm which William Middleton established in 1834 existed for over 150 years, closing in 1985.
Catherine's maternal great-great-grandfather was Durham coal miner John Harrison (1874-1956).
The Duchess of Cambridges great-great-great-great grandfather Thomas Michael Greenhow MD MRCS FRCS (5 July 1792 - 25 October 1881) was an English surgeon and epidemiologist and a founding fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons of England
Pic: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Dr_Thomas_Michael_Greenhow%2C_epidemiologist_and_surgeon_%281792-_1881%29.jpg
Those men at that time were at the top (founder or president) of working society, the gentlemen (aristos) then would only work with the top, not today, there's more opportunities for meritocracy. In the 18th and 19th century a lawyer or doctor had prestige and were sought after, when being at the top of the pyramid.
Her family tree is very interesting.
Yes her paternal side was often overlooked in favor of her maternal line when the couple were dating so it's interesting to find out more about Michael's family.
Frances Elizabeth Lupton (20 July 1821 - 9 March 1892) was an Englishwoman of the Victorian era who worked to open up educational opportunities for women. Frances was a pioneer for education for women.
She was honorary secretary of the Yorkshire Ladies Council for Education for fourteen years and was a powerful drivng force of the organisation.
She was also active in the Leeds Ladies Educational Association with both organisations facilitating the taking of university examinations by girls. When entrenched local charitable interests would not support girls' educaton she was part of the committee which founded Leeds Girls' High School in 1876
She also helped establish a school of cookery to teach local women the value of nutrition which expanded and led to the formation of the Yorkshire School of Cookery which later became part of a teacher training college.
Frances Lupton is the great-great-great-grandmother of the Duchess of Cambridge.
Doctors, that is prominent physicians, bankers, barristers and the more exclusive solicitors were considered upper middle class in the later 19th century, along with the leading architects and academics. Surgeons still had the old 'Sawbones' reputation associated with them and weren't considered quite so exclusive as physicians. The middle classes were filled with people in the professions as well as wealthier shipowners, retailers etc.
These families sent their sons to public schools if they could afford them or the best grammar schools and lived in nice residences. However, they weren't aristocrats or country gentry. If you sent in bills for your services in any way, that was not the mark of 'a gentleman'. The professions ie the middle classes were quite different to those who held land and/or peerages and the two classes rarely socialised.
Aristocrats didn't usually send their sons into the professions. The Army, the Royal Navy, the Church, the Diplomatic Service, yes. Medicine no. Becoming a barrister, yes, a solicitor no. A solicitor sent in a bill for services, barristers did not, their clerks did. The differences were subtle but they were there and everybody knew them.
Thomas Davis (15 February 1804 - 11 November 1887) was a Church of England clergyman, author and hymn writer.
The son of the Rev Richard Francis Davis DD (ca. 1766?1844), Thomas Davis was educated at Queens College, Oxford, graduating Bachelor of Arts in 1832. He proceeded to Master of Arts. In 1833 Davis was ordained a priest and became his fathers curate at Worcester, and in 1840 was appointed Vicar of Roundhay, Leeds in Yorkshire.
His publications include:
Devotional Verse for a Month, &c. (1855)
Songs for the Suffering (1859)
Endless Sufferings not the Doctrine of Scripture (1866)
Annus Sanctus; or, Aids to Holiness in Verse (1877)
Davis notable hymns include Sing, ye seraphs in the sky and O Paradise eternal! There are 23 of his hymns in Sodens Universal Hymn Book, 1885.
Rev Thomas Davis is the Duchess of Cambridges great-great-great grandfather
Catherines paternal ancestors, The Martineau family is an intellectual, business and political dynasty associated first with Norwich and later also London and Birmingham, England.
Her great-great-great-great-great grandfather Thomas Martineau (1764 - 1826), a manufacturer of textiles, married Elizabeth Rankin (8 October 1772 - 26 August 1848), who had her portrait painted a year before her death by Hillary Bonham-Carter, the great-great aunt of actress Helena Bonham-Carter.
Catherines and Helenas families were very close, very wealthy and belonged to the same Unitarian Church.
Both families would later produce Prime Ministers. Helena Bonham Carters great grandfather was Prime Minister Lord Asquith. Catherines blood cousin, Birmingham Mayor Sir Thomas Martineau, was the uncle of World War II Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain who had been Lord Mayor of Birmingham in 1915.
Thomas and Elizabeth Martineaus eldest child was a daughter, Elizabeth (1794 - 1850), who married Dr Thomas Greenhow (See Dr Thomas Greenhow in a previous post)
She is the grandmother of politician Francis Martineau Lupton, who in turn was the great-great grandfather of Catherine.
The National Portrait Gallery, of which The Duchess of Cambridge is royal patron, contains nearly 20 portraits of Elizabeth Martineaus siblings, Dr James Martineau, who Prime Minister Gladstone described as *beyond question the greatest of living thinkers*, and Harriet Martineau, the noted writer, who was invited to Queen Victorias coronation.
Thank you
@PrincessOfPeace You do find great history of Kate's family genealogy. I've read some about the Lupton's too. So keep it coming.
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on September 05, 2020, 03:30:13 PM
The Duchess of Cambridges great-great-great-great grandfather Thomas Michael Greenhow MD MRCS FRCS (5 July 1792 - 25 October 1881) was an English surgeon and epidemiologist and a founding fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons of England
Pic: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Dr_Thomas_Michael_Greenhow%2C_epidemiologist_and_surgeon_%281792-_1881%29.jpg
Dr Greenhow deserves a more in-depth post.
Dr Thomas Michael Greenhow was famous for his lectures and publications into the causes of the worldwide disease, known as the Victorian Plague.
Based in Tynemouth near Newcastle, Dr Greenhow, his nephew, Dr EH Greenhow and Dr John Snow were founding members of the Royal Society of Medicines Epidemiological Society in the 1850s, where emergency talks were held regarding the cholera pandemic.
Dr Snow was Dr Greenhows former surgery apprentice and Queen Victorias personal anaesthetist, famously giving the monarch chloroform during the birth of her eighth child.
Dr Greenhows dedicated research saw the London cholera epidemic end in 1854, after water contamination was identified as a major cause. However, the cholera pandemic continued throughout much of the world and today its cause still remains unclear.
Greenhow was a medical graduate of the University of Edinburgh and became M.R.C.S. (London) in 1814, having been a surgery student at Londons Guys and St Thomas Hospital.
He was a pioneer in the establishment of the University of Durham and in 1855 was a lecturer at the Newcastle-Upon-Tynes medical college, in connection with Durham University. He and Sir John Fife founded what would become the Newcastle University Medical School. The two men also founded Newcastles Eye Infirmary.
Dr Greenhows first child and only daughter, Frances (See Frances Elizabeth Lupton in a previous post), was born in 1821. She married into the Lupton family of Leeds, wealthy wool manufacturers and Unitarians, a branch of English Dissenters. She worked to open up educational opportunities for women, and, more prominently, their access to universities.
His first son and second child, Edward Meadows Greenhow, (1822 - 1840) died at the age of 18.
Greenhows second son, Henry Martineau Greenhow (1829 - 1912), followed his father into medicine. He studied at University College, London, and by 1854 was a Member of the Royal College of Surgeons of England.He joined the Indian Medical Service spending his entire career in British India, and rising to surgeon major.
Greenhows third and youngest son, Judge William Thomas Greenhow (1831 - 1921) received his Bachelor of Laws at Somerset House at Kings College, London in 1853
Thomas Michael Greenhow died a very wealthy man in 1881 at Potternewton Hall estate, near Leeds, where his greatgranddaughter, Olive Middleton, was born.
Catherines great-grandfather, Richard Noel Middleton, was educated at Clifton College and Leeds University. During WWI he served as an officer on the Western Front.
In 1919, Middleton retired as a solicitor from the legal practice in Leeds he shared with partner Sir William Henry Clarke who was a City of Leeds councillor alongside Francis Lupton. In 1921, Richard Noel Middleton became a director of William Lupton & Co.
Richard Middleton was active both politically and socially, he was one of the founders of the Yorkshire Symphony Orchestra
A neighbour of Richard Middleton said of the family: They all went to boarding school, and clearly the family was well off. They were never showy, but they were what you might describe as refined.
James Mathew and Pippa are purchasing the 72 acre Bucklebury Farm Park, almost next door to Middleton manor.
Source the town folks whom seem to be happy with the alleged deal.
Bucklebury Park | A great value day out in Berkshire. (http://www.buckleburyfarmpark.co.uk/) Granny Carole and Prince George have gone to this park several times. It's a working farm too. Apparently James Mathew want's to keep it as a business deal, although the Bucklebury towns people believe he will construct a cottage for country living. 72 Acres is a lot.
During his time at Clifton College, Michael Middleton was a praepostor, the title for a college prefect. Mr Middleton represented Clifton at rugby in the 1st XV and also gained his tennis colours.
Following Clifton, Michael Middleton attended the University of Surrey who conferred the degree of B.Sc (Hons) on him in 1973.
A thread for chat and articles regarding other members of Kates family other than her parents and siblings.
Not sure why Carole and Mike and the extended family threads are locked, so I'll post Uncle Gary's (and Katie Nicholl) interview with 60 Minutes Australia here, as he is the godfather of James Middleton.
The interview was posted today by 60 Minutes Australia, so the interview is very recent.
The rise of Kate Middleton: why she is desperately needed by the Royal family | 60 Minutes Australia - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uP-PaXu2BY)
A note from my above posting, I can see the recent creation of Carole/Mike thread and the Extended family thread. It looks to me like a keyboard typo mistake after creating it by clicking the lock mode.
Anyway, Uncle Gary's interview has been reproduced by the international media (several articles in the world wide web despite time difference with Australia). I won't post them here, until a mod or admin fixes the (I think unintended) locked 2 threads. Unintended means to me that after creating 2 pinned threads (hard work) to have it then locked?! Doesn't make sense.
No idea why it was locked. Likely a combo of me being very rusty at doing this and doing it late at night. :teehee: Sorry about that. Threads unlocked and posts moved. And thank you for letting us know.
💛
Found this on Twitter. From a garden party July 1927.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3rBD5hXMAEcP4x?format=png&name=small)
This doesn?t look like a garden party to me, more like some outdoor event in the 1920s for which the Luptons were involved in their part of Yorkshire. Royals don?t usually attend garden parties holding enormous bouquets.
Nor does the background of the photo look like a typical garden party, unless it?s an exit view and the Princess is just departing. The Princess Royal, who resided at Harewood House conducted a lot of charitable work in the county and indeed in the whole north of England appeared at many social events connected with it.
And why no thread on Kate?s maternal line? The Goldsmiths and the families they married into are just as important as the Luptons and the Middletons.
In the 1830s, at Baker Hill, Newcastle, Jane Harrison, a miner?s wife and ancestor to Kate, was married to James Harrison and had six children under sixteen by 1839. James was 41, getting too old for the work but struggled on. He was employed (under a bond of two shillings and sixpence) at the nearby colliery owned by Sir Charles Lawson. He earned a pittance.
James was an underground maintenance worker, repairing the passageways underground through which horses and donkeys pulled wagons and sleds. Henry?s son Tom, as was the custom, followed him down the mine before he was in his teens, working an 18 hour day in darkness and isolation, operating the mine traps or doors which helped with ventilation. Later he drove the horses that the laden sleds from the crane to the shaft of the pit. John and James jnr followed older brother Tom into the mine as well.
The Harrison family lived in a tiny one room cottage with an open fire and a ladder to the loft where the children slept. They drew water (probably contaminated) from the street pump and cooked what food they could get over an open fire. Sometimes family members would go into the countryside to pick vegetables or fruit to supplement their sparse diet. New clothes were extremely rare, instead any rags were mended again and again.
In fact Hugh Lupton is seen in mayoral regalia (as Mayor of Leeds) in this photo which seems to come from 1927 when Mary Princess Royal was probably opening something in Leeds.
No Cookies | The Advertiser (https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/aussie-teacher-uncovers-images-of-kate-middleton8217s-aristocratic-ancestors/news-story/14dec097b7b40a3f95c873cc7e54ca65)
?Another film from 1927 depicts Hugh Lupton and his wife Isabella greeting Princess Mary, sister to the King, George VI?. (From the above article.)
I would say it has nothing to do with being less important than maybe less interesting to the casual observer.
On Kate's paternal side there are videos and pictures. People are more interested seeing a pic of Peter Middleton standing next to the Duke of Edinburgh or her great-grandmother walking with Princess Mary.
Anyone who has read the DM in the last 20 years knows Carole's ancestors were coal miners but after that there's not much to say.
Yes, but that means a whole side of Kate?s ancestry is to be ignored then?
And there are several photos of Kate?s maternal grandmother Dorothy and her husband Ron, as well as pics of Carole when young and where she grew up. And a few photos of Dorothy?s parents. All working class. Plus description of urban poverty, such as here, where a reporter went searching for Ron Carole and Dorothy?s early surroundings.
The Middletons ? finding common ground with the royal family | Monarchy | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/apr/30/royal-wedding-monarchy)
The information about Mr. Harrison very accurately describes a life that so many in Great Britain and Europe would have been living for centuries . I am very blessed to have been born in the 20th century.
Yes but as I said it's interest level? A pic of Peter Middleton with Prince Philip is probably more interesting to the casual observer than Carole's mother pushing a pram.
Same with Meghan's family. If a picture surfaced of her great-grandmother standing with royalty it would be of interest to people.
Why? Hundreds of people who are in local politics or business meet royalty and photos are taken of the occasion for the local newspaper. That doesn?t mean they regularly hobnob with members of the Royal Family. How many photos were taken of Peter Middleton with Prince Philip? One, two?
And plenty of photos here of Goldsmith/Harrison forebears.
Kate Middleton's great-grandmother Elizabeth also inspired Princess Charlotte's name | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3071875/The-Elizabeth-inspired-Princess-Charlotte-s-middle-Kate-s-great-grandmother-humble-cook-brought-family-London-road-royalty.html)
Quote
It is the height of the Roaring Twenties and, elegant in silver-grey crepe-de-chine and pearls, all eyes are on Princess Mary and the large bouquet of carnations she carries.
Taken almost a century ago, this newly unearthed picture shows the Queen?s aunt as guest of honour at a garden party at Headingley Cricket Ground in Leeds.
What few will have realised, however, is that walking behind Princess Mary in the procession of dignitaries are no fewer than three ancestors of a future Queen ? Kate Middleton.
The Duchess of Cambridge?s great-grandmother Olive Middleton, then aged 46, can be spotted at the back of the group in a flapper dress and fur stole.
Also present are Hugh and Isabella Lupton, Kate?s great-great-great-uncle and aunt, pictured wearing the gold chains of office of the Lord and Lady Mayoress of Leeds.
A fourth member of the family, Olive?s sister Anne Lupton, was presented to the distinguished visitors under a canopy facing the members? stand at the cricket ground, according to a report in the Yorkshire Post of July 27, 1927.
There is much more historical information that may be found of Kate's ancestors in the Yorkshire Post archives. Being Wool Barons at that period of time according to economists today was huge. Akin to when Oil was discovered to Oil Barons.
Quote from: wannable on June 13, 2021, 12:52:39 PM
There is much more historical information that may be found of Kate's ancestors in the Yorkshire Post archives. Being Wool Barons at that period of time according to economists today was huge. Akin to when Oil was discovered to Oil Barons.
Cotton took over many mills in the 19th century.
And again, so Kate?s mining and carpenter and cook and lorry driver and painter and decorator ancestors and forebears on her mother?s side are just to be ignored? Sounds snobbish to me!
Quote from: Curryong on June 13, 2021, 12:49:30 PM
Why? Hundreds of people who are in local politics or business meet royalty and photos are taken of the occasion for the local newspaper. That doesn?t mean they regularly hobnob with members of the Royal Family. How many photos were taken of Peter Middleton with Prince Philip? One, two?
And plenty of photos here of Goldsmith/Harrison forebears.
Kate Middleton's great-grandmother Elizabeth also inspired Princess Charlotte's name | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3071875/The-Elizabeth-inspired-Princess-Charlotte-s-middle-Kate-s-great-grandmother-humble-cook-brought-family-London-road-royalty.html)
I think you know what I'm getting at. You created a thread for Kate's maternal ancestors so it's not being ignored and given your apparent interest you'll probably post there quite often. It's a win-win for everyone.
Quote from: Curryong on June 13, 2021, 12:49:30 PM
Why? Hundreds of people who are in local politics or business meet royalty and photos are taken of the occasion for the local newspaper. That doesn?t mean they regularly hobnob with members of the Royal Family. How many photos were taken of Peter Middleton with Prince Philip? One, two?
And plenty of photos here of Goldsmith/Harrison forebears.
Kate Middleton's great-grandmother Elizabeth also inspired Princess Charlotte's name | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3071875/The-Elizabeth-inspired-Princess-Charlotte-s-middle-Kate-s-great-grandmother-humble-cook-brought-family-London-road-royalty.html)
Kate's ancestors weren't only a meet and great according to the Yorkshire Post, they had deeper ties, attending invitations to society balls, it goes way back to King George V...the men and women of her family were ''educated'', something of that era where getting a higher up education was not a usual thing to do. So many of the patronage ties Royalty had with Kate's ancestors were not only because they were rich but educated people of society.
George V eh! That long ago!
The Luptons were of the northern merchant class, and wealthy. Of course members of these families attended Society balls and in some cases public schools However the Aristocracy and country gentry always knew they were different to them.
And very very few of the merchant class were close friends of members of the royal family, the Peels being an exception due to PM Robert and his friendship with Prince Albert, and the Gladstones of Liverpool later in the century, with Bertie Prince of Wales.
Quote from: PrincessOfPeace on June 13, 2021, 01:00:48 PM
I think you know what I'm getting at. You created a thread for Kate's maternal ancestors so it's not being ignored and given your apparent interest you'll probably post there quite often. It's a win-win for everyone.
I probably will, having noted your exclusive interest seemingly in only the wealthier merchant ancestry of Kate?s paternal side. Just evening it up!
Quote from: Curryong on June 13, 2021, 01:10:38 PM
George V eh! That long ago!
The Luptons were of the northern merchant class, and wealthy. Of course members of these families attended Society balls and in some cases public schools However the Aristocracy and country gentry always knew they were different to them.
And very very few of the merchant class were close friends of members of the royal family, the Peels being an exception due to PM Robert and his friendship with Prince Albert, and the Gladstones of Liverpool later in the century, with Bertie Prince of Wales.
The Royal family then sought Kate's ancestors for patronages, from education, to music, to health care. Just saying it wasn't the other way around, hence my comment of the men and women of Kate's family being educated. The Royal Family knew they not only had influence in the community, but were book smart so to speak. If one compares and contrast society during those times, being educated was a awe thing of having knowledge to create benefits to the population. Celebrity culture didn't exist, if you know what I mean. Today celebrity culture doesn't require to be smart.
Local people who were prominent in their communities and in city affairs often put themselves forward to take patronages in various areas of interest. It?s highly unlikely that members of the Royal Family would pester anybody to take roles in charities etc if they had showed no interest before.
And many middle class people of the professional and merchant class were university educated in those days, if we are talking about between the wars, the 1920s and 30s. It wasn?t that unusual for the professional classes to send sons to Oxbridge universities from the late 19th century onwards nor for them to attend ancient grammar schools and public schools. It?s got nothing to do with celebrity culture now. However, class distinctions were still rooted very strongly right up until the 1950s, especially in the shires..
But the Yorkshire Post archives report it as such. Who married who within the Royal Family, the ''interest'' that particular person has, then the knowledge that x member great great uncle of Kate was into music, voila. Same with Olive and her ties with infirmary (health care) and a royal female ''requesting'' her help to raise moneys long term.
Quote from: wannable on June 13, 2021, 01:42:12 PM
But the Yorkshire Post archives report it as such. Who married who within the Royal Family, the ''interest'' that particular person has, then the knowledge that x member great great uncle of Kate was into music, voila. Same with Olive and her ties with infirmary (health care) and a royal female ''requesting'' her help to raise moneys long term.
Yes, that was how local patronages worked, raising money for this cause or that. Female members of the Royal Family, especially the Princess Royal who interested herself in such things in the north of England wouldn?t have been able to become patron of everything she was asked to do. So she deputised.
Local committees, usually of ladies in northern towns and cities, were formed and the chair took charge to raise money and local interest. That was the way things worked in those days, especially as there was no National Health Service and every hospital, from Cottage Hospitals up, and every clinic in every town, relied on donations each year from the middle and upper classes.
Carole's family were very ordinary versus Michael's family had education and money to do what they did, so of course the papers then would report of their comings and goings. How to not, when they were every weekend at either a society ball or countryside trip.
And is the thread The Extended Middleton Family, which deals with great-great Lupton uncles and such also to be moved there, TLLK?
@Curryong-Yes that is my plan to merge the more recent threads relating to Catherine's family into the wider ancestors thread. It will likely happen over the next few days. Likewise, I'm going to be doing something similar for the Markle and Ragland families.
Quote from: wannable on June 13, 2021, 02:08:59 PM
Carole's family were very ordinary versus Michael's family had education and money to do what they did, so of course the papers then would report of their comings and goings. How to not, when they were every weekend at either a society ball or countryside trip.
Are we talking about the Luptons or the Middletons? Because I don?t think the Middleton ancestors, who were north country solicitors, were forever at society balls and taking trips to the countryside, except perhaps for business, or no work would ever get done in their offices!
Quote from: TLLK on June 13, 2021, 02:16:34 PM
@Curryong-Yes that is my plan to merge the more recent threads relating to Catherine's family into the wider ancestors thread. It will likely happen over the next few days. Likewise, I'm going to be doing something similar for the Markle and Ragland families.
Okey Dokey!
Please keep an eye out for any stray threads relating to the families of Catherine and Meghan. I fear that my eyes will begin to cross as I comb through these old threads to organize this part of board. Occupational hazard! :wacko:
The best and most extensive research to date is the book The Ancestry of Catherine Middleton by William Addams. All his sources are verifiable.
Yes, I know. Such as the great great grandparents he lists here, among the clerks, drapers and chars, good heavens, a prisoner of her Majesty in Holloway!
40 Edward Thomas Glassborough, b. Shoreditch, Middlesex, 19 June 1826, bapt. St. Mary, Newington, Surrey, 20 Aug. 1826 [IGI], in 1841 1847 1851 1859 1861 and 1871 a messenger, in 1881 a prisoner in Holloway Prison, Islington described as an "Insurance Co's Messenger", in 1891 "living on own means", d. 17 Vicarage Road, Leyton, Essex, 11 Aug. 1898 [entry no. 207]
m. Parish Church [St. Mark's], Kennington, Surrey, 13 Nov. 1847 [entry no. 282]
41 Charlotte Elizabeth Ablett, b. Lambeth, Surrey, ... , bapt. St. Mary's, Lambeth, Surrey, 20 Nov. 1825 [IGI], d. 70 Vicarage Road, Leyton, Essex, 21 July 1900 [entry no. 416]
42 John Elliott, b. Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, 22 June 1818, in 1841 a messenger, in 1843 a silversmith, in 1859 1871 and 1881 a messenger, d. ... [by 1886]
m. [by banns] Church of St. Mary Lambeth, Surrey, 21 May 1843 [entry no. 371]
43 Elizabeth Powell, b. Kennington, Surrey, ... [ca. 1816], d. 21 Approach Road, Bethnal Green, 27 Aug. 1871 [entry no. 231]
44 James Cockburn Robison, b. ... , in 1845 a clerk to the East and West India Dock Company, d. ... [?St Geo Southwark Jan-Mar 1849?]
m. Irvine, Ayrshire, 26 Nov. 1831
45 Mary Newbigging, b. Irvine, Ayrshire, ... [ca. 1806], d. 20 Cedars Ave., Walthamstow, 30 Aug. 1895 [entry no. 208]
46 Edward William Gee, b. Bishopsgate St., London, ... [ca. 1818], in 1846 a draper, in 1851 1852 1861 and 1871 a grocer and draper, in 1875 a grocer, in 1881 a draper, d. Upgate, Louth, Lincolnshire, 17 Sept. 1883 [entry no. 37]
m. Parish church [St. Matthew], Bethnal Green, Middlesex, 16 Dec. 1846 [entry no. 55]
Incredible what can be found via the Internet these days.
@Curryong-Do you know how far back these types of records in the UK might go? I can see the notations for the 19th and early 20th centuries, but I wonder if going further back into the 17th, 16th, 15th century might be difficult especially when researching people who were part of the lower classes in Great Britain, England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland.
My cousin has spent years working on detailed family trees for her maternal and our shared paternal relatives but has hit an impasse especially around the 16th centuries.
And there are very interesting stories about some of them, because of their feat, if not their moneys, if not their community involvement....
Births, deaths and marriages began in July 1837 in England, TLLK. However, with many adults who were illiterate, I think births were often not registered in urban populations until regulations got toughened up in the 1870s, and of course, more children were sent to school following Education Acts of the same decade. And many working class couples in large cities and towns just lived together without the benefit of clergy!
A bit different in villages, where the parson kept an eye on his flock and many were married in the village church. There was even trouble with that however, as John Wesley converted many people to Methodism in the 18th century and so parish records weren?t often kept for those families until Chapels were allowed to be built later for non-conformists.
As for centuries before, I would guess that it all depended on the parish priest. If he was dutiful and conscientious then records were kept properly. If he was lazy or very old, or didnt employ a curate, then they weren?t. And even if they were excellent record keepers you can?t discount the decay of centuries, some churches falling into ruin, or the depredations of two periods especially in the Reformation and in Puritan times. Church interiors and their records were often destroyed.
I?m lucky as far as my paternal ancestors go. In earlier centuries they didn?t leave their Norfolk fishing village for about 300 years until the mid 19th century, and the church there was left alone. On the other hand my maternal ancestors seem to have tried half a dozen trades in dozens of locales all over England. A restless lot!
@Curryong-Thank you for the information. I'm astonished that so much has survived over the centuries especially in those countries that saw enormous destruction in WWI and WWII.
Yes, I?m always amazed too. Germany, which suffered such heavy bombing at the end of WW2 for instance. Australia is a nation of migrants and many have difficulties in tracking ancestors, especially accessing Irish records for various reasons. Shipping records are fine and there?s a lot online now, but large gaps sometimes.
Not an ancestor, but cousin Lucy Middleton (who was at the dating time of William and Kate, the unknown but always present female friend at ski holiday trips) works as a Senior Publishing Lawyer, Penguin Random House.
Quote
Lucy Middleton, who's said to be the Duchess of Cambridge's favourite cousin and is godmother to Prince Louis, is involved in a bitter legal dispute with royal historian Anna Pasternak.
Middleton is a senior lawyer at publishing giant Penguin Random House, one of whose authors, American novelist Lara Prescott, is being sued by Pasternak over allegations of plagiarism.
Pasternak claims that Prescott, in her bestseller The Secrets We Kept, which told the story of Doctor Zhivago's publication, plagiarised her book Lara: The Untold Love Story That Inspired Doctor Zhivago. Anna is the great-niece of Russian author Boris Pasternak, who wrote Doctor Zhivago, which was turned into an Oscar-winning epic.
Sinead Martin, Group Legal Director for Penguin Random House UK, tells me: 'Ms Pasternak elected to bring proceedings, in the full knowledge that they would be defended by Lara Prescott and her publisher, both of whom consider the claim to be unfounded and entirely without merit. At Penguin Random House UK, we have a long and proud history of supporting our authors against unfounded claims and we will continue to do so in this case.'
In turn, Pasternak is the author of the Tatler Kate Middleton story this past December 2020, and was said at that time that William and Kate had sent to the magazine a complaint to not publish (it went digital but wasn't physically published). Complaint versus lawsuit is if complaint doesn't prosper a lawsuit is surely to come, or a W&K KP bluff. ie. like the Times bully MM complaint at the top of 2 article.
^^^ Lucy is part of a long line of lawyers in the Middleton family.
The Duchess of Cambridge's great-grandfather Richard Noel Middleton and his cousin Ralph Middleton, grandson of Sir Henry Berney, 9th Baronet, were solicitors at the Leeds law firm Messrs Middleton & Sons founded by their ancestor, William Middleton in 1834.
QuoteThe Duchess of Cambridge?s great-great aunt died in a mental hospital, in an uncanny echo of Prince William?s great-grandmother?s fate.
The similarities between the two ancestors have not been recognised until now ? with the discovery by an Australian historian that the two women led ?parallel lives?.
Kate?s ancestor, Gertrude Middleton, and William?s great-grandmother, Princess Alice of Battenberg, both became nuns who were volunteer nurses in the First World War.
The two women also had darker sides to their stories.
The duchess?s great-great aunt, the sister of her great-grandfather Noel Middleton, was treated at the Lawn Hospital for Mental and Nervous Diseases in Lincoln the 1930s.
She died at the facility, which treated ?superior patients?, in March 1942, aged 66.
Prince William?s great-grandmother, the mother of the late Duke of Edinburgh, was also treated at a sanatorium.
Michael Reed, a historian at Ilim College in Australia ? who made the discovery about Kate?s ancestor ? told The Daily Telegraph: ?They basically lived parallel lives, a few years apart.
'Both were volunteer nurses in connection with the Red Cross ? Gertrude during the First World War, and Princess Alice during the first and second.
'They both acted as dedicated social workers for the homeless and disadvantaged and proved to be generous financial benefactors.
'But most startling of all was the revelation that Gertrude, like Princess Alice, had been a patient in a mental hospital. Their stories are both fascinating and sad.?
Gertrude Middleton was a bright student and went to a boarding school for girls, which was next to the University of St Andrews, where Kate and William met as undergraduates.
Like the Duchess, Gertrude was sporty and played both lacrosse and tennis, a favourite pastime of Kate?s. She also played the piano, performed impressively by Kate herself during a Christmas carol concert last year.
She volunteered with the Red Cross with her sister-in-law Olive Middleton, the duchess?s great-grandmother.
Both Gertrude and Princess Alice followed a very religious path as their lives went on, with Gertrude becoming a nun at the Anglican Convent of the Epiphany in Cornwall, and Princess Alice founding a Greek Orthodox order of nuns.
After receiving a diagnosis of schizophrenia, Princess Alice was sent to a sanatorium in Switzerland in 1930.
She died at Buckingham Palace aged 84, in 1965.
Asylum past of Kate Middleton's great-great aunt echoes Prince William's great-grandmother's fate | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11129029/Asylum-past-Kate-Middletons-great-great-aunt-echoes-Prince-Williams-great-grandmothers-fate.html)
Kate Middleton and Prince William relatives' fascinating parallels discovered | Royal | News | Express.co.uk (https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1657961/kate-middleton-prince-william-Gertrude-Middleton-Princess-Alice-Battenberg)
White Wells, Ilkley: The historic Yorkshire spa building paid for by Kate, Princess of Wales's ancestor.
Long an enduring, almost mandatory feature of Yorkshire calendars, White Wells is a spa bath said to date from around 1700 when a pool was constructed to gather water from a natural spring in order to provide a health remedy known as the "cold water cure" to stimulate circulation.
Unlike other spas, the water has been found to have no medicinal properties.
The work was paid for by local landowner Peter Middleton, an ancestor of the Princess of Wales, formerly Kate Middleton:
https://archive.ph/cseBL