Diana strict with her children

[Curryong]

The Express in a bit of a nostalgia trip went into the day Diana smacked William on his school sports day. He was playing up and she lost her temper. Anne also smacked her children on occasion apparently. Wouldn't be seen to be at all PC nowadays, of course.

It also says that Diana was incredibly strict with her children. I don't know that that was exactly true though she did demand good manners.

Plus they say that Barbara Barnes was dismissed as William and Harry's nanny because 'she was too soft'. I've never read that before. I always thought BB was sacked because William absolutely adored her and Diana felt threatened.

Princess Diana news: William cried in front of friends after Diana 'snapped' in fury | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

[amabel]

The Express in a bit of a nostalgia trip went into the day Diana smacked William on his school sports day. He was playing up and she lost her temper. Anne also smacked her children on occasion apparently. Wouldn't be seen to be at all PC nowadays, of course.

It also says that Diana was incredibly strict with her children. I don't know that that was exactly true though she did demand good manners.

Plus they say that Barbara Barnes was dismissed as William and Harry's nanny because 'she was too soft'. I've never read that before. I always thought BB was sacked because William absolutely adored her and Diana felt threatened.

Princess Diana news: William cried in front of friends after Diana 'snapped' in fury | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

that's not what I recall.  She did give them a smack sometimes in public.. and from what I can recall, she was not always consistent with discipline, sometimes laughing at them being naughty and sometimes telling them off or smacking them. As I recall, she did not want the nanny to punish them..but sometimes, this meant that since she could not be there all the time, she was not able to tell them off/punish them soon after they had played up.. which I think can be a bit confusing for a very small child...
And yes she got rid of Barbara Barnes partly at least because she felt that William was too fond of her...

[sandy]

There may have been issues with Barbara Barnes beyond Diana allegedly being "jealous."  I don't see why parents can't dismiss nannies without speculation they are "jealous" of them.

[oak_and_cedar]

I just saw a paperclip the other day describing this incident.

princess Diana william smack school - Google Search

There goes the theory that Diana was "soft" and treated her children like friends and confidants.

I don't think that she was super strict but, rather, balanced and measured. Here's another (cute) article describing her being disciplined:

Kensington Palace chef reveals Princess Diana let a young Harry enjoy his treacle tart for breakfast | Daily Mail Online

It certainly dispells the image of her always being "unstable" and "emotional" in front of the children. She was a normal mum IMO.

[Curryong]

Yes, I certainly don't think Diana was a really unusual mother for the times. Sometimes she indulged her children, a lot of the time she had great fun with them, and occasionally she smacked them. Just like the vast majority of other mothers, even though smacking has gone out of vogue as a punishment tool in the last twenty years or so. It's remarkable that when her sons looked back on the 20 year anniversary of her death the main thing they remembered was the sense of fun she created around her, and also that she was a great example of public service to them.

[dianab]

i read barbara barnes didnt follow diana's rules and had other idea as the princes (particularly william) should to be brought up... i think ken wharfe commented that too on his book

[oak_and_cedar]

Didn't she let Barbara go because she took a vacation with people from Diana's circle, which Diana thought was inappropriate?

[TLLK]

^^^The vacation that Barbara Barnes took was with the family that she'd previously worked for before working for the Wales.

Baba Says Ta Ta to Wills and Harry?the Question Is, Did Charles and Di Get the Nanny's Goat? | PEOPLE.com

Yet another theory has it that Barnes?s great expectations were the real cause. In England?s upper crust, nannies are often treated as members of the family, but Barbara, to her dismay, reportedly was excluded from Windsor family life by Di?and the fact that she was paid only $7,500 a year didn?t help. The coup de grace, according to this school, was a bash the nanny attended on the Caribbean island of Mustique last December as the guest of Lord and Lady Glenconner, whose three children she had tended for 14 years before signing up at the Palace. During this tropical idyll, Nanny Barnes hobnobbed with the likes of Raquel Welch and Mick Jagger?and the atmosphere in the nursery has apparently been strained ever since. The Sunday Express quoted a ?close friend of the royal family? as saying, ?Princess Diana does not expect the people she employs?including her nanny?to socialize with her circle of friends. Some might even say she is snobbish about it.? Another chum, according to the Mail on Sunday, reported that Baba had to refer her problems with the children to Diana, who would then resolve the dispute and sometimes side against Barnes.

Double post auto-merged: September 11, 2019, 08:59:55 PM

Since their marriage in 1981, Prince Charles and Princess Diana have sacked or suffered the resignations of 40-odd employees, disrupting Kensington Palace life both upstairs and downstairs. Only the nursery has seemed immune to royal labor disputes. The stomping grounds of rambunctious Prince William, 4, and his(so far) more sedate brother, Prince Harry, 2, it has been the realm of Nanny Barbara (Baba) Barnes, a retired forestry worker?s daughter whose sparkle and light-handed approach to children won her the top nannydom in the kingdom shortly before Wills was born. But on Jan. 15, Buckingham Palace released a statement: The POWs and Baba, it said, had ?mutually agreed? that since Wills has just started all-day studies at Wetherby School, it was ?a good time? for Barnes, 43, to move on. Beyond that terse explanation?which nobody believed?none of the principals was talking.

Wow I'd forgotten how high the turnover had been at Apts. 8 & 9 during those years. :o

[Curryong]

Thanks for posting this article about Barbara Barnes' probable departure from the Wales nurseries, TLLK! I'd completely forgotten about that holiday with the Glenconners and the aftermath of it. Of course that was the explanation for her departure! What a shame, especially when Diana herself had been a sort of defacto nanny for a while before her marriage.

[dianab]

Didn't she let Barbara go because she took a vacation with people from Diana's circle, which Diana thought was inappropriate?

i read diana fired her because she disliked william's behavior at sarah and andrew' wedding. and saw barbara as a bad influence and dont accepted her orders as the mother of young princes. i think ken wharfe commented that in his book

[TLLK]

Thanks for posting this article about Barbara Barnes' probable departure from the Wales nurseries, TLLK! I'd completely forgotten about that holiday with the Glenconners and the aftermath of it. Of course that was the explanation for her departure! What a shame, especially when Diana herself had been a sort of defacto nanny for a while before her marriage.

I  too had forgotten that episode which seemed very odd. After all Barbara had been with that family for 14 years and was asked to be a guest at their winter vacation. Why should Diana cared about something like that? Back then what I mostly recalled was that Barbara had become too close to the children and that Diana didn't want them attached to another woman. Of course there were concerns about William's behavior in public especially after the York wedding.

[Curryong]

Yes but though not a snob class still played a part in Diana's life, as it does with so many things in Britain. Barbara was a forester's daughter, she was the daughter of an Earl. Barbara was a nanny, Diana had nannies as a child, 'servants' to  the family. There's the rub!

[amabel]

i read diana fired her because she disliked william's behavior at sarah and andrew' wedding. and saw barbara as a bad influence and dont accepted her orders as the mother of young princes. i think ken wharfe commented that in his book

Cant say I remember that. I think the issue was partly the Glenconner party.. Diana didn't like her nanny being treated as a member of the aristocratic family.. and parlty that she was upset and a bit jealous about Will's attachment to his nanny...
Double post auto-merged: September 12, 2019, 11:21:57 AM

I  too had forgotten that episode which seemed very odd. After all Barbara had been with that family for 14 years and was asked to be a guest at their winter vacation. Why should Diana cared about something like that? Back then what I mostly recalled was that Barbara had become too close to the children and that Diana didn't want them attached to another woman. Of course there were concerns about William's behavior in public especially after the York wedding.

I'm not sure if that was a factor. I think the queen was annoyed that he was behaving so awfully in public.. but not sure if Nanny Barb could be blamed for that? The press at the time I think found it amusing... and I'm not sure if Diana was worried about it..but possibly she was concered that he needed a bit more firm handling if the Queen was complaining about  his behaviour

[sandy]

Fergie herself was criticized at her own wedding for outrageously mugging when she walked down the aisle.

Oh I think Diana was concerned about Will's behavior.
Double post auto-merged: September 12, 2019, 02:01:47 PM

I  too had forgotten that episode which seemed very odd. After all Barbara had been with that family for 14 years and was asked to be a guest at their winter vacation. Why should Diana cared about something like that? Back then what I mostly recalled was that Barbara had become too close to the children and that Diana didn't want them attached to another woman. Of course there were concerns about William's behavior in public especially after the York wedding.

I think any mother would be concerned if a child is too attached to a nanny and maybe starts listening to the nanny more than the mother. Not a good thing in any household IMO

[TLLK]

I'm not sure if that was a factor. I think the queen was annoyed that he was behaving so awfully in public.. but not sure if Nanny Barb could be blamed for that? The press at the time I think found it amusing... and I'm not sure if Diana was worried about it..but possibly she was concered that he needed a bit more firm handling if the Queen was complaining about  his behaviour

Typically the parents and the nanny work out how discipline is to be handled prior to the hiring knowing that adjustments will have to be made as the child grows and behavior expectations change with each stage of development. If the Wales didn't initially want Barbara and her assistants to be very strict with William and Harry, then it's not surprising that there were issues along the way. Yes I do recall that the press did find his four year old antics amusing.

I think any mother would be concerned if a child is too attached to a nanny and maybe starts listening to the nanny more than the mother.

Based upon what my friends/family have said about their child's attachment to their nanny, they're fine with them having a close relationship. If the child is with the nanny more than the parents during his/her waking hours, then the children do need to listen to their nanny and follow her instructions. Parents/nanny have to communicate to make sure that expectations are clear. What isn't helpful  to anyone is when parents arbitrarily decide to go against the agreed upon discipline plan if they become jealous of the child's relationship with the nanny. Unfortunately at the end, that appears to have been happening in the Wales household.

[sandy]

I think he Will was criticized for teasing his cousin which did not look good.

There probably were other reasons not mentioned. The Diana being jealous of Barbara was one of the unfortunate stories leaked to the press by Charles' friends. I think that very unfortunate.

[amabel]

T

Based upon what my friends/family have said about their child's attachment to their nanny, they're fine with them having a close relationship. If the child is with the nanny more than the parents during his/her waking hours, then the children do need to listen to their nanny and follow her instructions. Parents/nanny have to communicate to make sure that expectations are clear. What isn't helpful  to anyone is when parents arbitrarily decide to go against the agreed upon discipline plan if they become jealous of the child's relationship with the nanny. Unfortunately at the end, that appears to have been happening in the Wales household.

I think that it hurt Diana that she coudlnt' be with William all the time..and that she had to leave him to Nanny - so she got jealous. And I think she didn't want him to be scolded.. but then of course if he misbehaved, esp in public, the adults had to tell him off/control his behaviour...
I seem to remember that she didn't want the nannies (As I recall there were more than 1) to punish the children.. she would prefer to do it herself but of course she wasnt' always there and it didn't work out well, to put off telling them off when they were very young. By the time that Diana might be able to deal with a problem piece of behaviour, the child had forgotten what had occasioned the telling off

[sandy]

Diana was seen correcting William.

I would not say Diana got "jealous." William was Diana's child a mother can't be replaced by a nanny.

[TLLK]

I think that it hurt Diana that she coudlnt' be with William all the time..and that she had to leave him to Nanny - so she got jealous. And I think she didn't want him to be scolded.. but then of course if he misbehaved, esp in public, the adults had to tell him off/control his behaviour...

I agree @amabel. It must have been difficult to leave him at an early age and depend upon others to be with him for much of his waking hours. I recall that initially KP staff were told not to raise their voices to him or reprimand him but unfortunately that wasn't going to work in the long run. Most children are going to require a firm voice, immediate action and a consequence (positive or negative) to shape their behavior.

[amabel]

I agree @amabel. It must have been difficult to leave him at an early age and depend upon others to be with him for much of his waking hours. I recall that initially KP staff were told not to raise their voices to him or reprimand him but unfortunately that wasn't going to work in the long run. Most children are going to require a firm voice, immediate action and a consequence (positive or negative) to shape their behavior.

True - I think her problems with Barbara B had to do with the feeling that William was with her too much, and she was afraid that he would grow more attached to her..
And I don't think it works for kids to be reprimanded much later after they've misbehaved.  When they are very small, they do forget what has happened to cause the telling off... so it would be better to allow Barbara etc to discipline them...
I think that there was also  Diana reacting to Barbara gong to Lord Glenconner's birthday party..

[sandy]

I am glad Diana showed interest. A far cry from when Queen Mary did not know her own children were being abused by the nanny.

[TLLK]

True - I think her problems with Barbara B had to do with the feeling that William was with her too much, and she was afraid that he would grow more attached to her..
And I don't think it works for kids to be reprimanded much later after they've misbehaved.  When they are very small, they do forget what has happened to cause the telling off... so it would be better to allow Barbara etc to discipline them...
I think that there was also  Diana reacting to Barbara gong to Lord Glenconner's birthday party..

I agree that Barbara had to be the one in the moment to discipline the children. At that age, kids need immediate attention and then repetition.

[oak_and_cedar]

Did the Wales family have Another nanny after Barbara? (exluding tiggy who came after the separation, if i'm not mistaken)

[TLLK]

Yes @oak_and_cedar the Wales family also employed: Olga Powell, Jessie Webb, Ruth Wallace and Aracelli Piccio Like Barbara Barnes, Jessie Webb eventually fell out with Diana due to her close relationship with her charges and left. (Can't recall if she was fired.)
All who were still living were invited to their former charges' weddings and the Cambridges even hired Jessie Webb on a temporary basis until Maria Borallo took over the position full time.  :happy:

Olga Powell passed away in 2012 and William attended her funeral. Harry was in Afghanistan at the time and couldn't attend.
Prince William attends funeral of former nanny Olga Powell | HELLO!

It was a sad day for Prince William on Wednesday as he said a final farewell to his beloved nanny Olga Powell, the lady who looked on him and his brother as being "like my grandson



Accompanied by Princess Diana's sisters Lady Sarah McCorquodale and Baroness Jane Fellowes, the future King left the Duchess of Cambridge in charge of official duties in the North East of England while he attended Olga's funeral at Harlow, Essex, in a private capacity.

It's thought he also passed on the condolences of Prince Harry, currently serving in Afghanistan as an Apache helicopter co-pilot gunner.

Jessie Webb also worked for the Linleys (Princess Margaret's son and his family.) Duke of Cambridge hires former nanny for Prince George - Telegraph

Aracelli Piccio - Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's Filipino connection - The Filipino Times

Ruth Wallace - Died in 2003 WILLS AND HARRY'S HEARTACHE AT DEATH OF NANNY; Ruth was link to mum Di. - Free Online Library She'd originally worked for Princess Michael of Kent and was hired to replace Barbara Barnes.

[Curryong]

With regard to the brothers' former nanny Olga Powell, I read that she wrote a letter to Harry, then serving in Afghanistan, went out to post it, did so, and when she came back to her home collapsed and died on her doorstep. So Harry received her letter later presumably knowing she had died.

Olga, unlike some of the other nannies employed by the Wales's, managed to walk the tightrope of being kind and concerned about her charges but not getting TOO close to them and displeasing Diana, a difficult task I would think. There is a photo around somewhere of a very young William upset about something in public and Olga with her finger upraised, telling him off.